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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 9:49:38 PM EDT
I been noticing that my well pump randomly kicks on when I am not using water. I was fearing a leak somewhere but I cannot find anything obvious. The water though has to be going somewhere.
I heard it kick on just now again and I am not using any water. So I just ran down there and noted that it is at 50PSI. I then flushed my basement toilet and ran back to watch the pressure gauge. It dropped from 50 to somewhere around 20-25ish and kicked on again. So it is cycling with 1 flush. Granted my basement toilet is very old, so it's probably not very water efficient, but that seemed not right. So, I know I have digital display on my water softer that shows me how many gallons until it cycles next. So I took picture of it, then flushed my toilet again. Again, 50PSI to 25 ish, pump kicks on from a single flush. Checked the water softer numbers again and 3 gallons have ticked by. I did this two more times and it is consistent. The toilet is using 3-4 gallons to flush (per my water softener display) and this causes my well pump to cycle once for every flush. Is my pressure tank bladder shot? Could this cause a loss of pressure over time and my pump to kick on when no water has been in use? |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 9:52:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Mine is doing the same thing and My irrigation guy said mine was bad when he de winterized the system.
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Posted: 4/18/2024 9:55:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Birddog1911]
[#2]
When did you last change your filter?
Try knocking on it like a door. I believe that if it "rings", it's bad. ETA: had that backwards. If it doesn't sound hollow, it's bad. Also, try rocking it. If it's very heavy, the bladder is bad. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 10:10:34 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog1911: When did you last change your filter? Try knocking on it like a door. I believe that if it "rings", it's bad. ETA: had that backwards. If it doesn't sound hollow, it's bad. Also, try rocking it. If it's very heavy, the bladder is bad. That’s only if you shut the well off and bleed all water pressure off. Under normal operation it should be full of water. OP what’s your pressure switch like. Mine is 40-60, it should never get down to 25psi. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 10:15:17 PM EDT
[#4]
Does your pressure tank not have a Schrader valve that you can check to see if it's holding the proper pressure?
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Posted: 4/18/2024 10:15:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dirtyboy]
[#5]
How big of a pressure tank? Shut well off, open faucet, check pressure tank for pressure.
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Posted: 4/18/2024 10:18:47 PM EDT
[#6]
If you do this and there's no pressure the bladders bad.
 how to check and adjust pressure tank |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 10:21:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Might have a leaky check valve that is allowing water to drain back into the well.
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Posted: 4/18/2024 10:30:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Have you tried putting dye in your toilet tanks to see if they are leaking?
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Posted: 4/18/2024 10:31:38 PM EDT
[#9]
 How to Check and Adjust Pressure Tanks |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 10:36:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Does your pressure tank not have a Schrader valve that you can check to see if it's holding the proper pressure? One check you can do is depress that Schrader valve core with something and if water comes out instead of air, the bladder is ruptured. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 10:40:04 PM EDT
[#11]
If you check the valve and water comes out, the bladder is shot and replace the tank.
If you check the valve and no pressure, turn on the hot water in the house and fill with air pressure to the proper poundage. Typically easy to replace the tank. Replacing mine tomorrow. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 10:45:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Does your pressure tank not have a Schrader valve that you can check to see if it's holding the proper pressure? I think OP should buy a thermal camera instead. 
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Posted: 4/18/2024 10:58:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Originally Posted By Burnsy: I been noticing that my well pump randomly kicks on when I am not using water. I was fearing a leak somewhere but I cannot find anything obvious. The water though has to be going somewhere. I heard it kick on just now again and I am not using any water. So I just ran down there and noted that it is at 50PSI. I then flushed my basement toilet and ran back to watch the pressure gauge. It dropped from 50 to somewhere around 20-25ish and kicked on again. So it is cycling with 1 flush. Granted my basement toilet is very old, so it's probably not very water efficient, but that seemed not right. So, I know I have digital display on my water softer that shows me how many gallons until it cycles next. So I took picture of it, then flushed my toilet again. Again, 50PSI to 25 ish, pump kicks on from a single flush. Checked the water softer numbers again and 3 gallons have ticked by. I did this two more times and it is consistent. The toilet is using 3-4 gallons to flush (per my water softener display) and this causes my well pump to cycle once for every flush. Is my pressure tank bladder shot? Could this cause a loss of pressure over time and my pump to kick on when no water has been in use? If it's a bladder type pressure tank, it will have a schrader or some other sort of air valve on it which you can use to check the air pressure in the tank. If you open that airvalve and water sprays out, that's whatchacall a clue. Also, if it won't hold pressure and constantly leaks down, that's also a clue. A bladder tank will hold pressure if it's good. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 11:00:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Concentricity]
[#14]
I’m not touching the bladder tank topic because everyone seems to have that covered pretty well.
You mentioned also that at random times the well pump will cycle on to refill the tank, when not using any water inside the house. You had my interest, now you have my attention. Where is the water going? You may have something leaking water somewhere. Could be inside the house, could be outside. Do you have any dripping faucets anywhere? Water treatment unit or reverse osmosis unit that is blindly dripping water out the drain discharge? It’s gotta be going somewhere. Could you close the main pressure valve as a temporary test by cutting off pressure going into the house while leaving the well storage tank pressurized? If you did this and within 2 hours there was no pressure loss or pump cycling then the leak is somewhere downstream of the main shutoff valve, perhaps a toilet tank or outdoor hose faucet. If you DO lose tank pressure or cycle on/off while the house is isolated, perhaps the well discharge line has a leak outside of the house. If so, is the leak in the horizontal buried line going out to the well or is it the “drop pipe” going down the well? I’ve seen corroded brass “male x barbed poly” adapters that leak water either outside of the well head or threaded into the bottom of the pit less adapter inside the well. Maybe a crack in the poly pipe somewhere or a leaking barbed fitting with a rusted out hose clamp, for possible examples. If you believe the leak is outside the house, either down the well or within the buried horizontal line, there’s an isolation test in order to prove which one, but it would likely require pulling the well drop piping at least 2x. Is your well very deep? Do you know the static height from water level up to the ground level? |
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USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 11:05:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Many years ago my PT was cycling on and off for no reason that I could see. I called the well company and they came out and pulled the pump. It was some rubber part on the pump itself that cost like $5 plus the pull.
The next time I was having issues it turned out the hot water heater had a tiny leak from corrosion that was soaking into the floor decking and running along a floor joist in the crawl space so I never saw it. |
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ID, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 11:26:16 PM EDT
[#16]
There's only so many things that can cause this and they are all difficult to find, sometimes.
Most has already been covered. 1....Faucets, valves, including the toilet(s) can leak. If you can't see them or hear them leak, shut of the master valve from the pump house to the house long enough to see if the problem changes. There are various and fancy ultrasound detectors and things that may help find a leaky faucet. It does not take much. A drip here and there adds up, hour after hour. 2....Foot valve/ check valve. All pump setups, as mentioned, have to have a way to prevent the water already pumped into the system/ tank to go back into the well. This is almost always a form of what is called a foot valve, which is a check valve, at the well pickup, IE the bottom. Not sure how to troubleshoot this, other than isolate everything from the pump, cap off the outlet, and apply air pressure and see if it leaks down. 3....Bad tank bladder, already well covered. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 11:37:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By harrymank: That's only if you shut the well off and bleed all water pressure off. Under normal operation it should be full of water. OP what's your pressure switch like. Mine is 40-60, it should never get down to 25psi. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 11:39:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Does your pressure tank not have a Schrader valve that you can check to see if it's holding the proper pressure? |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 11:40:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By john_the_plinker: Might have a leaky check valve that is allowing water to drain back into the well. 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 11:48:19 PM EDT
[#20]
All I know is that my pressure tank holds 30 lb of pressure.
To low of pressure and no water. Op have you checked the pressure. If pressure keeps going down you need a new tank. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 11:49:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Burnsy]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Concentricity: I'm not touching the bladder tank topic because everyone seems to have that covered pretty well. You mentioned also that at random times the well pump will cycle on to refill the tank, when not using any water inside the house. You had my interest, now you have my attention. Where is the water going? You may have something leaking water somewhere. Could be inside the house, could be outside. Do you have any dripping faucets anywhere? Water treatment unit or reverse osmosis unit that is blindly dripping water out the drain discharge? It's gotta be going somewhere. Could you close the main pressure valve as a temporary test by cutting off pressure going into the house while leaving the well storage tank pressurized? If you did this and within 2 hours there was no pressure loss or pump cycling then the leak is somewhere downstream of the main shutoff valve, perhaps a toilet tank or outdoor hose faucet. If you DO lose tank pressure or cycle on/off while the house is isolated, perhaps the well discharge line has a leak outside of the house. If so, is the leak in the horizontal buried line going out to the well or is it the "drop pipe" going down the well? I've seen corroded brass "male x barbed poly" adapters that leak water either outside of the well head or threaded into the bottom of the pit less adapter inside the well. Maybe a crack in the poly pipe somewhere or a leaking barbed fitting with a rusted out hose clamp, for possible examples. If you believe the leak is outside the house, either down the well or within the buried horizontal line, there's an isolation test in order to prove which one, but it would likely require pulling the well drop piping at least 2x. Is your well very deep? Do you know the static height from water level up to the ground level? What got me to thinking it;s maybe related to the pressure tank is the fact that a single flush of the toilet causes it to cycle the pump every single time. That doesn't seem right to me, so honestly I am hoping it's related to the tank. It seems the cheapest possible cause.
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 11:52:05 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Iamhere: All I know is that my pressure tank holds 30 lb of pressure. To low of pressure and no water. Op have you checked the pressure. If pressure keeps going down you need a new tank. I am not sure which breaker is my pump so I am going to wait until the day light to kill the power and test the tank PSI. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 11:53:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Have you checked the pressure tank schraeder valve yet?
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Posted: 4/19/2024 12:07:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: harrymank]
[#24]
My well has a check valve in the pump and another one joint of pipe away. Where is your well at that you can hear it so easily?
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Posted: 4/19/2024 12:10:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: harrymank]
[#25]
If you do shut the power off and drain water pressure, your tank should have 28psi or air in it. Typically 2psi below cut in pressure, which you said was 30 on the switch.
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 12:20:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Burnsy]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By harrymank: My well has a check valve in the pump and another one joint of pipe away. Where is your well at that you can hear it so easily? |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 12:23:51 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By harrymank: If you do shut the power off and drain water pressure, your tank should have 28psi or air in it. Typically 2psi below cut in pressure, which you said was 30 on the switch. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 3:07:36 AM EDT
[#28]
I had a broken line going from the well to the house, but if I remember right, the pump would kick on but the tank wouldn't build up pressure at all.
I don't know if a smaller leak might cause your symptoms or not. Found the approximate location of the leak by running the pump a while and looking for mud between the well and the house. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 6:12:01 AM EDT
[#29]
If it’s like mine I replace the float and breakers every few years. Just replaced them and fixed the problem. While off, drain the tank. They can get waterlogged.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 7:12:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Burnsy: It does. It doesn't have a drain valve. Just the one PVC pipe going in and out. If I shut off the power and just open all the taps until nothing comes out, is that good enough to test it at the Schrader valve? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Burnsy: Originally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Does your pressure tank not have a Schrader valve that you can check to see if it's holding the proper pressure? Should be, as someone else has said you can check it any time just to see if water comes out of the valve meaning the bladder isn't functional. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 7:21:38 AM EDT
[#31]
If you drain the tank and check the bladder that will usually tell the tale.
Every time I've checked on like that, the bladder was full of water. If it's kicking on without any water usage though, you may have a small leak somewhere that is draining off pressure slowly. Or....it could be both of those things at once. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:29:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Burnsy]
[#32]
I lost no pressure over night and my water softener indicated no water use over night. Today I tested the shrader value while everything was on and it showed like 60psi. No water came out, just tested normal like a tire would. I killed the power and drained the pressure tank. I then tested the pressure again at the shrader valve and got no reading. Tried several times but got nothin.
Confirmed bad tank? |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:36:15 AM EDT
[#33]
A pressure tank with a ruptured bladder won’t cause your pump to kick on when you aren’t using water. You have a leak somewhere.
With a bad tank bladder the pump will kick on as soon as you use water, as the tank is unable to hold the pressure. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:40:31 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Does your pressure tank not have a Schrader valve that you can check to see if it's holding the proper pressure? Open the valve with a key or something, if any water comes out the bladder has decayed. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:42:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Coffin-Nail]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Burnsy: I lost no pressure over night and my water softener indicated no water use over night. Today I tested the shrader value while everything was on and it showed like 60psi. No water came out, just tested normal like a tire would. I killed the power and drained the pressure tank. I then tested the pressure again at the shrader valve and got no reading. Tried several times but got nothin. Confirmed bad tank? Most likely, you can always try adding pressure to see if it'll hold with the valves open. 2 PSI under the |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:44:47 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Burnsy: I lost no pressure over night and my water softener indicated no water use over night. Today I tested the shrader value while everything was on and it showed like 60psi. No water came out, just tested normal like a tire would. I killed the power and drained the pressure tank. I then tested the pressure again at the shrader valve and got no reading. Tried several times but got nothin. Confirmed bad tank? If you've drained the tank and get no air pressure at the Schrader Valve the tank is no good. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:54:17 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Woodsy: If you've drained the tank and get no air pressure at the Schrader Valve the tank is no good. That is how you set the pressure tank pressure. Drain the tank and with the well pump off add or remove air via the schrader valve to the desired value. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:55:43 AM EDT
[#38]
I don't know. Is it bent over saying spank me daddy?
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:57:42 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Most likely, you can always try adding pressure to see if it'll hold with the valves open. 2 PSI under the cut off. Mine says 2 PSI below pump start up pressure. Mine is set to 30 to 50 PSI so the tank pressure should be 28 PSI. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:00:11 AM EDT
[#40]
Older bladders eventually leak air even if they are still serviceable. I have to drag out 350' of air hose from my shop over to the well house about every 12 months to pump mine up. There are YouBoob videos that show how to do this. It's not hard but you need a compressor. Doing it with a bicycle pump will give you a heart attack.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:05:39 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Burnsy: The pump is in the ground outside but the pressure tank and switch are in the basement. It's an old house and an unfinished basement with just wood flooring throughout. Add in that I live alone and keep it pretty quiet in here, I can easily hear the click of the switch and the hum of the pump while sitting in my living room on the main floor. If you can hear the pump either it's not very deep, it's one noisy SOB or you have the world's best hearing. The contacts in the pressure switch could also be corroded causing bad connections that result in erratic switching. Turn the power off then run an emery board or emery paper folded over back and forth a few times in between the contacts. Then see if the problem persists. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:08:42 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 13Joker: If you can hear the pump either it's not very deep, it's one noisy SOB or you have the world's best hearing. The contacts in the pressure switch could also be corroded causing bad connections that result in erratic switching. Turn the power off then run an emery board or emery paper folded over back and forth a few times in between the contacts. Then see if the problem persists. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 13Joker: Originally Posted By Burnsy: The pump is in the ground outside but the pressure tank and switch are in the basement. It's an old house and an unfinished basement with just wood flooring throughout. Add in that I live alone and keep it pretty quiet in here, I can easily hear the click of the switch and the hum of the pump while sitting in my living room on the main floor. If you can hear the pump either it's not very deep, it's one noisy SOB or you have the world's best hearing. The contacts in the pressure switch could also be corroded causing bad connections that result in erratic switching. Turn the power off then run an emery board or emery paper folded over back and forth a few times in between the contacts. Then see if the problem persists. You can't hear when your pump kicks on and fills the tank? It's easy to hear the tank filling in my house and the switch clicking as long as there's no other noise going on. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:50:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanPeople: Mine says 2 PSI below pump start up pressure. Mine is set to 30 to 50 PSI so the tank pressure should be 28 PSI. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanPeople: Originally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Most likely, you can always try adding pressure to see if it'll hold with the valves open. 2 PSI under the cut off. Mine says 2 PSI below pump start up pressure. Mine is set to 30 to 50 PSI so the tank pressure should be 28 PSI. You're right I worded that wrong. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:51:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kuraki]
[#44]
Sounds like you have a leak in your well pipe, probably at the pitless adapter or check valve.
If the well is kicking on when there's no water use, that means the system pressure is dropping with no pressure use, ie you're losing water somewhere before the house (you'd notice it in the house because it's wet.) What kind of well? Deep submersible pump? Jet pump? Sand point? |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:57:20 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 13Joker: If you can hear the pump either it's not very deep, it's one noisy SOB or you have the world's best hearing. The contacts in the pressure switch could also be corroded causing bad connections that result in erratic switching. Turn the power off then run an emery board or emery paper folded over back and forth a few times in between the contacts. Then see if the problem persists. Mine is 135 feet down and I can hear it hum with no other house noise present. Pipes conduct vibration pretty well. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 12:11:55 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 13Joker: If you can hear the pump either it's not very deep, it's one noisy SOB or you have the world's best hearing. You are probably assuming he has a submersible pump. If you have a jet pump, as I do, you will definitely hear it. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 12:31:19 PM EDT
[#47]
I'm a retired country plumber..
A ruptured air bladder will cause your symptoms. If the system is holding 60 psi overnight, nothing is leaking either... You can simply pressurize the tank with compressed air. Turn the pump off, and run water till the pressure is gone. Use a portable air tank and pressurize the system thru the air fitting. Run the water down to 0, then pressurize the system to about 15 to 20 psi. Close the valves and turn on the pump.. and that's it. You'll periodically need to di this as water will slowly absorb the air in the tank.. You can replace the tank if you like, with a bladder tank. I've replaced a few tanks.. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 12:45:16 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Burnsy: I lost no pressure over night and my water softener indicated no water use over night. Today I tested the shrader value while everything was on and it showed like 60psi. No water came out, just tested normal like a tire would. I killed the power and drained the pressure tank. I then tested the pressure again at the shrader valve and got no reading. Tried several times but got nothin. Confirmed bad tank? While empty, inflate the bladder to proper level. See if system works then. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 1:29:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Burnsy]
[#49]
I added air to the pressure tank, it took a LOT. I have a small pancake compressor and it kept taking so much I was wondering if I was doing something wrong and was going to pop something.
It finally started to show something on the pressure gauge and I eventually got it to around 28PSI. Turned everything back on and MUUUUUUUUCH better. I can flush that same toliet 3 times now between cycles and the pump runs WAAAY longer during each cycle. That was for sure at least "a" problem, and I am sure I likely need a new tank now. That air had to have gone somewhere and it will do it again. I will see how long it lasts. Thanks all! |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 1:32:00 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By john_the_plinker: Might have a leaky check valve that is allowing water to drain back into the well. This is the likely answer BUT it would have to backflow through the pump. Or he has a leak and hasn't found it yet. |
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