LOL.  

another point.  ML was the team's medic.  where is his position with respect to wounded ?  at a casualty collection point -- out of direct danger -- to treat said wounded.  perhaps -- if some maintain he was moving away from contact -- that is why.  

point being -- nobody knows EXACTLY what he did / when / why in the heat of battle...  i surely will not denigrate his actions.  but if we have people here who want to -- i hope they have facts and proof and post it up.  

it's been a while since i read up all the versions of the event.  it's been fashionable to bash the men / the operation / the results, etc.  absolutely mistakes were made.  i agree the book is very questionable.  

but I'm not going to trash ML's personal actions.  anyone who does should be factual with proof.

Has a certain  industry partner shown up yet?

He used to show up in every luttrell thread and denigrate the character of anyone who dared question the official narrative

I find it odd someone with the MoH would come out as he did against civilians LARPing. I would have expected someone who achieved that would be very secure and not care if civilians play soldier.

I don't think that makes any sense in the context of a 4 man team engaging at least three 4 man teams centered on PKMs and also with RPGs. Particularly since the PKM teams had the positional advantage and likely surprise.

IMHO, a man can see enough of war to sour their perspective of anything related to it.

Alaskan trailer poon just pushed him over the edge and LARP'ers are an easy target for a Marine.

As a guy who was a medic on a small team in combat, I don't think I would look at it like that. I always knew that my suppressive fire is better preventative medicine than anything else I can do during a fire fight. The "Care Under Fire" side of things means I would try to do self-aid and buddy-aid of throwing TQs on limbs and possibly helping someone to move out of a specific danger area. That would usually be the extent of my medical aid in a situation like that. Otherwise I'm in the fight until we gain a position of superiority. Then we can start transitioning to Tactical Field Care and establishing a CCP.

It looked more like a show of insecurity.

A lot of these guys seem to buy into their own hype and end up putting off a “you’re welcome for my service” type vibe.

Dakota Meyer, Tim Kennedy, Glover, etc…

The first SEAL I met (and was actually friends with) was Vietnam era (he never went in country or was in combat). It was back in the 70s in a martial arts dojo. He was very down to earth and a great guy. But back then most people had no idea what a SEAL was. At the time it was all about the Green Berets, culturally speaking.

Also, at the time, one of the guys in the dojo who was a bit of a nutcase wanted to become a Green Beret. No idea what happened to him, but I would hope he didn't make the cut. He seemed similar to the crazy guy in Stripes.

“Just name a hero, and I’ll prove he’s a bum”. G. Boyington

None of us are perfect, but the military has been throwing medals at mistakes for a long time.


When the testimonials come from individuals serving with/under the awarded person, then I put more weight into the truth of the account.
When it comes from the higher ups with no corroborating accounts, not so much.

Eta- the drone footage from Roberts Ridge PROVES that Chapman was a fucking stud.
The USN should be ashamed how they handled the MOH situation, especially Symanski and Slybinski.

Human beings and their egos and agendas ruin everything good and holy and pure.

I'm coming to the conclusion that everything I read is just a BS made up story.   I've got a while bookcase full of unread books that I ought to just throw in the trash.

Same.  

I felt that it was a whole lotta BS when I read American Sniper and Lone Survivor.  Naturally the movies were even more full of BS.    Either way I guess is those guys served and I didn't so who am I to cast judgement (like anybody would care what I think.)

That's what Yeager did

GD is my only social media so I missed out on anything other than shitposting about it after the fact. My disdain for the Palin clan is what keeps the memory fresh.

Long ago I read Boyington's book. I don't recall it as self promotion, although granted I was young and may not have picked up on it. Perhaps his total number of air to air kills isn't as high as claimed (although we are not talking a huge number here), but he was in the Flying Tigers, did lead a USMC fighter squadron, and was shot down and spent time as a POW in Japan.

Please God don't compare Yeager to a SEAL unless you're talking about Mookie

ACM (anti-coalition militia) was the proper nomenclature for dudes we were hunting in 04-05 in that AOR.

I'm guessing all these imaginary kills made it into his sniper kill count.  Along with his kills from the Superdome roof during Katrina of course...

It's odd that Chapman clones aren't more popular

thanks for your perspective.  i can understand how things might be different on a smaller team.

i was an Infantry Platoon Leader (pre-GWOT) and i can say if our platoon medic went up front to engage all hell would break loose (Platoon Sergeant would go ballistic lol)  -- but that's with ~30 men.

i understand that if the medic represents 25% of available firepower -- potentially different situation as you mention.

the bolded part above -- might never happen.  

another separate issue --- in any movement -- Rally Points are established.  if separated -- it is also possible ML was looking to go back to the last known Rally Point.

again - without sounding like a broken record --  there are 'reasons' he may have done what he did.  Even if it seems like he was 'running away'.    

Did the PL initiate 'Break Contact' ??  if he did -- there's ANOTHER reason to go 'backwards'.   to get to a better more defensible position.  

appreciate your comments

When the Brits were in the Sudan they called 'em fuzzy wuzzies because of their afros. Why does everything have to suck now? I'm sure Marines could come up with something better than anti-coalition militia.

I wasn’t disparaging him, I was using his quote to prove a point. According to his pilots in 214, the man was fearless, and a great pilot.

Neat. Post up Pat Tillmans Silver Star citation next. Come to think of it why was he awarded a Purple Heart? Oh yeah it’s because sometimes they make shit up.

My understanding is that they were hit from above by three teams each with PKMs. He probably escaped only because he was lower on the hill. The guys actually in contact probably had their hands full. They probably would have wanted anyone who could escape to escape.  

He probably had a hard decision to make on going towards or away from the gunfire. If you go up you might help or you might show up and find you are the only one left against multiple teams with heavier weapons. If you go down you might escape but then you have to live with it forever.

I didn't take it that you were. But people are now questioning older events, and I was just adding my 2 cents. My perception of him was that he wasn't a bullshitter.

A lot of the guys from older generations understated themselves.

I have two pistols that are WW2 bring backs. The guy who brought them back told his wife on his death bed that he shot down a German plane in WW2. He told me stories, none of which built him up, they were just factual. He never told me about shooting down the plane, and my dad never told me that so I don't think he told my dad (his best friend) about it either. I did ask him how he obtained the pistols. He got them from a tanker in trade for a 1911. He could have built himself up by telling me he got them from a German he killed, but he didn't. I don't get the feeling he liked killing Germans all that much.

Having never been to the Pech District area of AFG, I can only go off of other peoples descriptions.

It sounds like an area that is a combo of Rocky Mountains mixed with areas similar to north central New Mexico.

Incredibly steep, rocky terrain, heavy timber at elevations between 9300'-7300'. A terrible place to try and fight, especially if you don't occupy the high ground.

If you where in a 4 man team, setup in your OP hide site, you would be somewhat spaced apart to begin with. Now throw in elevation changes between each individual persons location, mixed with trees, rocks, boulders etc. Once you received contact, from a location above your positions, where the enemy has not only the element of surprise, but also superior numbers and weapons........you would be ROYALLY SCREWED!

The only means of defense would be to fall back....(down the mountain) and attempt to break contact. If 50% of your force was killed in the initial stages of fire......(you and one other guy) are the only fighting force left. Of course its going to look like you are "running away".......but are you really?? You aren't fighting from a position of adequate defense, not in terms of available firepower or positional advantage. The enemy has the tactically superior position to plunge fire onto you as you try to break contact. To live...you have to get as much distance between yourself and them as fast as possible, while trying to make your way down some steep, slippery, shitty terrain. So it makes sense that in dealing with all that, you and your remaining teammate inevitably become separated. If you thought your remaining teammate (Axe) was shot and killed, now you have only yourself to provide any defense while trying to get away from the enemy while trying to stay alive.......

What would that look like from a Predator feed??

Would that mean you did anything wrong??

Did you "abandon" your team??

I just think people have a tendency to be incredibly critical of certain things without putting the details into proper perspective.

I don't know what really happened on that mountain, Marcus is the only person alive that went through it.

Certainly the "story" was a fabrication to cover up mistakes. Most of them made by the Teams leadership. Which is why the whole thing turned into a complete disaster.

That isn't a reflection of the men who died on the mission, and I don't believe it makes Marcus anything but very lucky to have lived through it.

Once he was rescued, he was basically along for the ride. NSW provided the storyline and Marcus had/has to play his part. It is basically his way of Honoring his fallen teammates and all of the other men who died on the QRF helicopter that got shot down.

Excellent post.

I agree on your analysis that it is likely that fleeing an unblocked ambush may have been the only viable option,
especially if your other team members are dead or separated and believed dead.

I have to disagree that signing off on what appears to at the very least be a flagrant exaggeration at best would be honoring your fallen comrades.

Also the allegation that Axel was found dead 10 days later, having transpired at or around day 8 after ML rescue would certainly call for some critizism of his actions post rescue

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If what Brad Jacobson said is true whomever ordered them to split the platoon to recover the truck should've had their shit pushed in.

In mission briefs and radio traffic they were ACM.

In firefights and other "non official" moments non-official nomenclature was utilized.

Murkowski won the last election by 2015 votes.  Sad situation.

In Iraq they were ACF (anti coalition forces) until somebody decided they should be AIF (anti Iraqi forces).

I am sure somebody got a defense distinguished service medal for the powerpoint explaining how much difference that change would make.

I'll believe she won an election the day armadillos migrate to Healy.

What’s interesting, is they gave a MOH to Michael Murphy and made up a fake story when he got his men killed due to piss poor planning but they drug my friend Jon Brostrom through the mud after he was killed in the battle of Wanat legitimately fighting probably 50+ fighters with his platoon. Interesting how that works when it’s regular Army vs SEALs.

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

The officers in charge of orchestrating these cover up's need to be courtmartialed

they did the same with Pat Tillman , they had the rangers towing around a Humvee

that had a broken axle and slowed them up unbelievably and the stupid orders they were given .

It’s right up there with sovereign citizen logic.

I believe Marcus felt at the time that is what he would be doing by agreeing to run with the narrative created for him .......Personally, I don't believe that to be true, but we have the gift of hindsight.

The Axe thing I have never heard about until this guy brought it up on that podcast. I sure hope that isn't accurate. It would make no sense for Marcus to withhold the rally point information from the people doing the search and recovery. Even if you "thought" Axe was dead, you would still give the info so they could check that location first and work out from there.

I think three PKM's are more fordable than a polar bear and nobody is going to advocate charging uphill at a trio of them with an SPR after they gobble up three of your friends.

Ain’t no medicine in a gunfight.

I believe that was even covered in the movie….

Which is why his Navy Cross is bs along with Murphy's MOH.

Holy fuck you can’t even imagine how fucked up those two are.

There's some videos from Ukraine of them self applying TQs in gunfights. Also one where a guy jumping off an APC hit a mine, lost his leg, and quickly applied TQ.

That is going to ruffle some feathers

It shouldn't, even if the bullshit story is believed Murphy's actions aren't MOH worthy.  Dude gets killed while supposedly yacking on a SATPHONE doesn't merit an MOH.

But Navy gotta have them some heros.

...if there was a pred feed, how did they lose axe for 8 days?

Yeah.  What's the source on this claim?

What they did to Chapmans MoH candidacy was horrible. In fact, SrA Jason Cunningham who got killed in the same battle as Chapman as a PJ is wholly deserving of the MoH as well. What he did that day to save countless lives and gave his up is exactly what the MoH is for. He needs to be upgraded.

Nothing more than self-aid in a gunfight, and that needs to be limited to something like a TQ so you don’t bleed out. Better?