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NMP


Definitely - RR stuff make the 500X very capable.

But Level 2 suspensions, plus wheel's, plus tires, to get a 19" is near total the cost for a used 500x alone. Getting total of bike + upgrades close to Transalp, and others, pricing. RR500X might be a pleasure - but few will perceive this a good route. The newer 500X have 19" fronts, tho cast. Still makes light off-road more tenable.

Bespoke suspensions are the one thing that transforms any bike tho - and always spendy.

I'm 6FT 240, I rode xt250( I bought for my wife, who gave up on learning to ride) It had enough power however it was not fun to ride longer than 1hour. As a rider I felt cramped and would have to slide back on the seat to release pressure on the knees. If I was dedicated to riding the bike, highway pegs would be a must. I also wondered how the bike would handle with 30-40lbs of gear for camping gear, I'm skeptical if the bike would have performed well.

I have a KLX250 I “outgrew “ it in about 5 months and got a KLR650 .. I still have the 250 and love it for the fuel mileage and weight. I have taken it all over Alaska and it has never let me down. I did add a jet kit, intake and exhaust and changed the sprocket for a bit more speed on the highway II have gps’d it at 106 mph it will cruise comfortably at 70mph but if it’s even slightly windy it’s white knuckles. I average a hair over 90MPG with as high as 110mpg cruising around 60 on the highway.

Drz 400 is the sweet spot for budget and capability

265 is no problem whatsoever. I probably have that everytime I ride with panniers racks, tail rack, crash bars, accessories, riding gear/Tech 7s, etc.  I did Silverton, CO to Ophir Pass to Moab with the bike bone stock, lol.  Definitely had some bottoming out though which wasn't the end of the world.

For big dudes a K Tech rear shock 1 inch lowered version  puts the bike back to stock ride height but prevents bottoming out even fully loaded.  Other brand shocks rated for his weight range/luggage range will probably work as well. I'm still on the stock front forks if that matters.

A lot of good beginner bikes mentioned in this thread for him but of course I'm heavily biased to the 300L Rally .

K-Tech Suspension Razor-R Lite Rear Shock-#287SD-021-130-008 CRF300L 2021 / 245LB ~ 275LB RIDER (LOWER VERSION)
Vehicle: Honda - CRF300 RALLY - 2021 -

$ 587.00 delivered and about a 10 minute install, super easy.

You rock man

Wonder if ADVRider.com would have what he'd need suspension wise for a Versys 300 - or if anyone here does

Forgot Kanati had one too

Let he who has not spent $4000 on suspension for a $6000 bike throw the first stone.

I should rent Ohlins?

Transalp is on my short list for sure.

I wish Honda would make a 450RL platform in a Rally trim, something Kove'ish. I like the idea of still being a smaller, lighter bike.

Even the 460lbs of a Transalp sounds like a lot to want to pick up much, and I'm half 'tarded so I end up on my ass more than I'd like.

Had more to do with other markets - new EU licensing (A2 hp limit), Japan displacement limit and SA tendencies.

When dev started on 471cc/399cc Twins the US market was ailing - bad enough Suzuki didn't import any 2010 due to a 60%+ drop during  08 and 09. So the States interests werent paramount. Not sure the Translalp was even contemplated, but certainly wasn't scheduled more than a decade ago. From what I've seen the relative success of the AfTwin wasn't  assumed or assured, and its become a different market in the US subsequently.

Long post of my thoughts that don’t really lead to a conclusion so feel free to skip it.

Often we see discussions on someone looking for a bike for pavement and gravel roads and then receive lots of suggestions for pretty awesome dual sport bikes. I contend that since the creation of the category of ADV bikes we have seen a more clear divergence on the usage between the two despite there being a lot of overlap. And really it comes down to how you define “adventure”.

First however let’s define dual sport as I think that may be easier. A dual sport bike is made to do actual, real off road stuff while still being road legal. In doing so they make great sacrifices for the road. Bikes like the KTM 500EXC easily fall into this category.

But here is where the argument starts. I don’t believe the “ADV” category should include nor ever really has included technical single track. Yet there is a prevalent push on folks looking for ADV to consider far more off road capable bikes than they need. More so when you consider my enormous GSA will eat rutted forest service roads with ease so imagine a bike like the Honda CB500X and what a much lighter bike is capable of.

Let me define adventure riding from my experience, which is certainly less than some but perhaps a tad more than others. Adventure riding to me is a journey. It could be a day but is often longer, much longer. It is primarily self supported. There may be a lot of sand and dirt but there is also a lot of pavement simply because the world is paved now. It’s not just remote roads, it is also towns and villages, beaches, historical sites and everything between. Rarely have I ever been forced into single track. Occasionally I have looked for harder tracks and more than once I have looked for easier. To me that is what ADV is. Some days it is all paved and some days it is all dirt. It is traveling the earth not for the challenge primarily but rather for the experience of being a part of it all.

But of course we have so much overlap in bikes and that makes it trickier. My DR 650 for instance. ADV bike or dual sport? Kind of bad at both is the truth until you start modifying it. So mine is an ADV bike that looks like a big dirt bike, but in no way is capable, in average hands, of dirt bike things.

So what are my requirements of an ADV bike personally? Capable of highway speeds because at some point and honestly at many points you will end up on a highway if you travel enough. It must have a 200 mile or close to that range. It must have the capability to carry me and all my crap. I must be able to do most all common maintenance and repairs in the blazing sun, in the mud, on the side of the road. It must be reliable.

But Bryan, you say, you can travel the world on a Vespa scooter, people have done it. Yes, they have. And inevitably in your travels you will find some dude literally walking around the globe. You will see someone doing it on a unicycle. You will see someone doing it on a pogo stick. And if your idea of adventure is to find an asinine way of doing a thing just to do it then I think that is awesome. But for most ADV riders we are looking to enjoy the ride and not focus on the extra hardship or to be honest even the machine. I don’t really want to have to focus on tight single track all day because then I miss the bigger picture. I want to absorb the journey.

The truth is that most threads on here of. folks asking for advice they would be better served with mid-sized ADV bike than a really good dual sport. I say this in confidence as most of us never actually ride the technical dirt that we want to and if we can take it one step further if you do get to the point that you are riding tight single track then I promise you will know when you need to change bikes.

So bikes like the DR, KLR, Himalayan, and CB500x are just about perfect for most as most all of us are never going to ride much more than rutted dirt roads and maybe some sand and add in that 95% of the time we will be on the road, in traffic, and even on the damn highway.

GasGas does a Dakar Replica, as does Kove, who will sell you a race ready. At one time, call the right people and stroke a large check Yamaha would   - you'd prolly need some credentials. NLA since they left Dakar but there's works bikes out there.

MST in Italy does Honda CRF450 Dakar reps. Prolly doesn't help you but there may be others. Lots of kits available too. I doubt Honda will do one. That's said, Dakar bikes are great when you're supported and limited by FIA/ASO regs. I don't find them so useful, but are nonetheless cool.

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Only 7 gallons tho

https://mstrally.com/crf450-rx-rally-replica/

I wish they made a 450RL that didn't have 600 mile oil changes and a complete engine rebuild by 20,000 miles.  Seems an odd move to put an MX race engine, with race maintenance schedule, in a dual-sport.  I'd have to do oil changes mid-trip.  

People said someone other than KTM should make a dirt bike with a plate on it, and Honda answered the call. Unfortunately that means you get the dirt bike engine with the dirt bike maintenance, just like the 500 exc.

That being said, seems like if people are just doing 'dual sport' stuff with it the oil change interval can be pushed a bit. A few higher mileage models are out there at this point and it seems like rebuilds aren't all that common. Certainly, it's not going to be at the level of the 'true' dual sports but the 500exc and 450RL do have their own established niche of owners.

Best bike for me was a 1985 XR350R.      

Pic frum 25 years ago or so.     😬😬

Honda says "You can have a dual-sport 300 with 22 horsepower, a dual-sport 650 that makes 30HP, or a race bike that needs rebuilding all the time.  Or an ADV bike that's more highway than dirt.   Take your pick."

Total newb here, first bike ever, but a gratuitous picture thread.

At around 350 pounds? That's not much more weight than a 250. My complaint at 5'10" was the bike is too damn tall.

I've been very happy with my Husqvarna 701 Enduro. It can go just about any where my WR250 could and still comfortable cruise at 80+MPH on the freeway.

It's the first like I've ever bought that was not a dedicated dirt bike.

I got to ride my sons Africa Twin, it was great.  Oh hell, it was way beyond great.

But, I ride a Yamaha XT 225 and like that a lot better for my use.

I WANT

The first thing I would do is post this up in your Hometown forum and ask the guys there that own bikes like you are looking for if you can go check them out.
Go to the local riding area where you want to ride and check out what people are riding there.
Unless you're buying a high performance ripper (KTM, Husky, GasGas, Beta, Yamaha) the smaller street legal dual sport bikes are pretty much the same, plain jane vanilla.

Im completely torn between the KLX300 and the DR650

Pretty decent suggestion…

For me, it's not the service requirements that are a turn off, it's the complaints about stalling, flameout and shitty fuel mapping. I understand it's the internet and people can't just be happy with stock, but every review I've read says that the aftermarket ECU is absolutely necessary to make the bike useable. It does not eliminate all of the complaints however.

I’m probably not experienced enough to know all of the ins and outs but…

I read all that stuff too before I bought my bike.  Yeah, in first and second it may not be the smoothest at low RPM but mine does not randomly stall.  In fact, I often find myself 1 (or even two) gears too high (remember the part about me not being a super experienced rider?) and the torque just keeps pulling and gets me out of trouble.

Do you want a dirt bike that you can sometimes adventure with? (KLX300)

Or do you want an adventure bike you can sometimes take in the dirt? (DR650)

Perfect example of real world user vs internet experts/tinkerers. See any dual sport suspension thread for similar examples, lol.

Fair take.

It's the same intersection of Light, Fast, Maintenance, Cheap, and/or Reliable these threads try to make a case for. tho the last has become less variable amongst brands and classes over the years.

The two large differentiators are maintenance and payload range - which often requires some suspension work. That mostly equates to distance and base. How far are you going and where are you stopping. Home to home, or Camp to Camp is vastly different than a month traveling unsupported, even mostly on western tarmac road networks.

The needs - which can be sliced into actual and perceived - basically revolve around terrain performance. The higher the terrain performance specialization - road or off road - the less suitable for distance and higher the maint need needs with lower intervals. Sport bike or Hard Enduro. Some DS anymore have very short intervals - 500m/750km/15 hours OCI, valves every other Oil service and rebuilds every 10 OCIs. Not very practical for travel, tho sometimes needs require and it can be done, doing 8-10 hour days then pulling maint every other or third with majors, for longer than a week ain't fantastic . Nearly a month . . .

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It's tenable supported, but gets old fast and you need compelling reasons. Like much adventure, it's Type II fun. If it's not necessary tho, it's best avoided.



For peeps who want to knock around rural, back roads in the States - paved, gravel and graded fire with little to no highway - something with a days worth of range, a years worth Maint (maybe longer - OCI, Sparkers, Valves 7500m/12.5k km), and some easy dirt road chops, makes a lot of sense, where some of these suggested clearly don't, tho they are "cool".

My view - and have at it  - since Beamy (are you a new rider? We've merely assumed) should have have the best shot at enjoyment. Of recent bikes:

CRF250/300 Rally, Versys 300, KTM 390 ADV,  XT 250, KLX250/300, CRF250/300L would all likely work well. Tho all will need some suspension.

A DR650, KLR650 or DRZ400S would be other decent choices that give you more legs. Maybe some height issues.

CB 500X maybe, because it's cheap, well balanced and versatile may fit. If this I'd shoot for '19 or later for 19" front and some other small upgrades. But don't get hung up on minutia and improvement ladders. All these are a good way to get into the hobby. I'd concentrate on what fits you.

Love the idea of someone in hometown offering some access. Back in the day Swingset and a few of us here and at ADV did exactly that. Hit MSF and that will give you some insight. I'd buy used if you could find a clean, private sale at a significant discount from new.

KLX has a better suspension than the CRFL but CRFL is more stable.  I'd hate to do many highway miles on either as they are too small for comfortable rode work.  I've worn out several, currently have 6000 miles on my CRF300L, been pretty reliable other than the left rear blinker which breaks off if you look at it too hard.  Mine live on gravel roads, pastures and field trails, very little blacktop but the Honda will do 80, unlike the CRF250l that couldn't accelerate in 6th gear.  Ideally a CRF450L, with synthetic oil, and a remaped ECM, would be awesome if you can stand a tall seat.

Had one, too little power and those tires suck.

Twinzies!!

You can blame stalling, flame-out and shitty fuel mapping on the US EPA and California's CARB.
For the EXC bikes (street legal) a quick call to JD Jetting will get you a piggy-back tuner for about $275 that works great.
To go the next step you can have tuners like Twisted Development flash the stock ECU for about the same money.
To go to the highest level you can buy a new ECU from GET, VORTEX or RX1.
One of the best things you can do to help prevent stalling is to turn up the idle just a tad bit.

Yup. Been riding dirt bikes for 30 years now and my next bike will be a KLX300S. They're great bikes.


My other two bikes are a YZ250F and XR80R.

Attention, attention, you do not need to rebuild a KTM or a Honda "dual sport" bike that's based on a "dirt bike" every 1,200 miles.
Look, read and comprehend the service manual and service intervals.
Most everyone looks at the "RACE" interval section.
Yes, if you're hammering your bike every time like you're racing a supercross or a GNCC then yes, you'll need to up your maintenance intervals.
Doing what most people do when they are riding "dual sport" they could easily double the maintenance interval.
Look through this thread in ADV: https://advrider.com/f/threads/2012-ktm-500-exc-as-a-lightweight-dual-sport.746534/

Exactly. I am friends with a wide range of riders across many skill levels. One of my friends is a slower guy and he has 300 hours on a YZ250F. Still on the original valve train, clutch, and bottom end. Didn't even do a piston until 250 hours. And most of the people I know regularly put 100 hours on a bike only doing regular maintenance and then sell it off and buy a new one.

Another friend of mine wins local A class races, has won at Loretta's, and qualified for a couple pro nationals. He will roach a bike out in 25 hours. I don't think he even gets 5 hours out of a clutch. He rides pretty much wide open everywhere and modulates the power with the clutch. Even on a 450. It's impressive to watch him ride.

I bet you could easily put 20k miles on a 450L or 500EXC assuming you didn't ride it like your Eli Tomac and kept up with the maintenance.

In fairness you are kind of making a point on how ridiculous those maintenance and rebuild schedules are for most riders as their one and only bike. 20k is a long time for a rebuild…not the bike I want as my primary.

So 2400 miles

I know you already know this, but there's no free lunch with a high performance single cylinder bike, unfortunately. Regardless of the brand. It would be awesome to get CR performance with XR maintenance, but it ain't happening.

I already have a MX bike with the maintenance intervals to match. Which is why I want the KLX300S for a dual sport.

And I think that is fine if that is your ultimate goal is performance. I would argue that is mine as well but performance in different areas other than power. I want efficiency, low stressed engines, longer maintenance, range and etc.

I think the CRF450 and KTM500 kick ass…just not as a commuter for a first time rider and for me, damn sure not as an only bike.

There are a lot of bikes I have trouble getting a leg over but can flatfoot after my rather substantial weight compresses the suspension down almost to the stops. Not really but the notion tickles me.

I find that a lot of the internet "must haves" are from people who spent the money and need to convince themselves that it was worth it by telling others they need to buy it too.

Plenty of reasonable people in the community also suggest that the stalling and flameouts do tend to go away after some time, and they promptly get ignored by people wanting new shiny things.

In all fairness, I also do have an aftermarket ECU in mine. However that was less about the riding characteristics and more of a long train of thought of needing to replace the stock exhaust so that the built in cat converter wouldn't melt my luggage because I'm one of the dumb few who will strap camping gear to the thing. Did it change the characteristics? Sure. Was it really, really worth $1000? ($2000 since I've now bought two different ones as I wasn't exactly thrilled with the first) Eh...

I don't think anyone really was suggesting one of those for the OP.. and I fully take the blame for once again bringing up the "but actually" when it comes to the maintenance.

Exactly. I think it's cool that Honda stepped up and built a legit dirt bike with a plate. It's just one of those things that's not well understood by some new buyers. I wish Yamaha sold a version of the WR450 like that as well.

But what I want a dual sport for is just tooling around on some backroads and exploring trails for fun and not having to work on it all the time. If I want to go fast I'll ride this.

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Absolutely do it, OP, and ignore the haters.  There is nothing wrong with a small displacement bike, even if it's not everyone's cup of tea.

My fist bike was a WR250R, which I still have as a second bike.  It's perfect for riding back roads, paved or unpaved.  And if you really like riding, chances are you'll pick up a second, more powerful bike for highway or long distance riding.

I have one. It’s a great bike for a very specific purpose. I wouldn’t have bought it if I didn’t have a good road bike.

So I went to looked over a couple bikes this morning

KLX 300
CRF 300l
XR 150
TW200
KLR 650

I really liked the two Hondas as far as fit for me went

I'm thinking a CRF 300 would make sense
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Though the XR150 looks stupid fun too
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XR150 doesn't really have the "super light bike" trait that the fun ultra low CC bikes have. It's Honda's attempt at fighting the 250cc China clones at a budget, after all those things stole their engine anyways so might as well throw a Honda badge on it. Works great if you want a bike at bottom dollar, but I think the 300 has it beat almost everywhere else.

But if it looks fun to you it's certainly cheap enough to give it a run and see if it's for you.

Do the 300. But I would buy used first. That way it is easily sold at little to no loss if you buy it at the right price.

I have a 150cc motorcycle. I love it. I am telling you to not get a 150.

I was looking at the local dealerships for small CC dual sports. By the time tax, freight, and dealer fees were added in, these little bikes were $7k-$8k. Screw that. I started looking at FB Marketplace and found an older KLX250S for $2,000 and it was in excellent condition. I mainly cruise country roads and the occasional trip north to find some forest service roads, which is the main reason for buying it. I'm done with freeways and busy traffic. I've been there and done that. I've had 20+ bikes. Some of them over 1,000CC. I'm having a blast on this little dirt bike. If I were to do more road miles, I would probably look at low mileage DRZ400's.

Good choices OP. I think the 150 may be too small, the TW would be awesome if you are going to ride sand and mud more than anything else. The dig I’ve heard on the Honda 300 is the suspension. You probably won’t be affected much by that until you start getting a bit wilder.