User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/14/2022 11:59:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spmx7777: ATF regulations define straw purchase, not federal law. The federal crime is still the same though, lying on the 4473. The current straw purchase definition is if you’re buying the firearm for someone else. An older straw purchase definition, and I believe the original, is if you’re buying the firearm for a prohibited person. Keeping up with nearly constant regulation changes is a headache. It's covered Under section 21a on the back of the 4473 that you can purchase a firearm for someone as a gift. That is the only exception to buying a firearm for someone else. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:00:15 AM EDT
[#2]
I can't believe the lawyer who worded this bull shit didn't spontaneously burst into flames from all the lying lying lying...
"This Lawsuit does not challenge the rights of responsible gun dealers to provide guns to law abiding citizens in a safe, legal & reasonable manner " ... This lawsuit is EXACTLY meant to "Challenge" the Rights of a Gun Dealer like you to provide great guns to citizens like US... BIGGER_HAMMER 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:00:25 AM EDT
[#3]
What a crock of shit. Good luck going forward.
|
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:01:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Singlestack_Wonder]
[#4]
Good luck in your fight!
Add an item to your store called, "Defense Fund Donation" and allow folks to contribute for your legal fees. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:04:28 AM EDT
[#5]
In for the legal fund.
Hope it doesn’t to ugly for you 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:05:27 AM EDT
[#6]
This is a load of shit, OP. If we get a donation site set up to help with expenses I'm happy to contribute. I've not used your services but I know many here have, and this is a good reason to circle the wagons and have each others' backs.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:05:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Jerry Zohn is the culpable one in this event.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:06:25 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lug1: @BigBore If you make some product, say along the line of the Dillo's LaRue makes to Nolo, I will purchase. I bet everybody will. Not a freebie fundraiser, everybody wins, and has a token to show for it. Just sayin.... Or you get a givesendgo I will donate to that. Just brain storming. Absolutely! Damn shame that good people have to put up with this BS in the first place, and I'm terribly afraid it's only going to get worse in the coming years. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:06:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PepePewPew: Does PLCAA provide for attorney's fees when plaintiffs violate it? No and it needs to be amended to include them. Plus damages. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:06:48 AM EDT
[#10]
The charges use "knowingly" quite a bit.
At the time it may not have been an apparent straw pruchase |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:06:57 AM EDT
[#11]
Reads like complete bullshit.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:09:55 AM EDT
[#12]
Do not cave, do not leave this to your insurance since to them it will only be about their money and not right vs wrong.
If you need help ask, but if you let you insurance company settle, you are basically feeding ducks in a pond and before long more and more ducks will show up to poop in the 2A pond. Remember, if you treat this like it's only about you, many will leave you on your own. Remember how most hear feel about Remington's insurance caving. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:09:57 AM EDT
[#13]
Hmm, The gun would not have been sold if the state had not approved.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:10:55 AM EDT
[#14]
What is the exact meaning of “Zohn immediately gave the firearm to Roebke”?
|
|
|
|
CO, USA
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:12:30 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Singlestack_Wonder: Good luck in your fight! Add an item to your store called, "Defense Fund Donation" and allow folks to contribute for your legal fees. Excellent idea. |
|
|
OH, USA
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:13:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CherokeeGunslinger]
[#16]
Everyone here knows you didn't do anything wrong, including me. That being said, you fucked up when you mentioned the "strange dynamic." By talking to the police, you had nothing to gain and everything to lose.
The only words you should ever tell the police as a suspect or potential suspect are "I am exercising my Fifth Amendment right to remain silent and I want to contact my lawyer." I wish you the best and hope you beat this bullshit lawsuit, but I'd be lying if I said the odds were good. Get ready to fight the goblins in suits, brother. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:13:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: LuckyDucky]
[#17]
deleted
|
|
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:13:41 AM EDT
[#18]
I am an attorney, I am not your attorney, I would request site staff delete this thread.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:14:14 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sunburn: If I were in your shoes I would want to know what the medications were and what her mental health history was like. I would like to know how she knew she was a prohibited possessor. I don’t think that’s something a non-gun person would about themselves. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:14:53 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar154all: This is bullshit. Get a GoFundMe. This effects us all. If everyone here coughs up $25, you'll probably be covered Stryker (sp?) still approves these things? Good idea…and don’t forget Nolo! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:16:11 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: A 22 wrangler is a great gun for a 70yo Stupid And a poor choice for a suicide attempt. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:16:37 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KILLERB6: What is the exact meaning of "Zohn immediately gave the firearm to Roebke"? No way ADCO could have known it was the chick's money, unless she handed to Zohn in plain view in the store. I'm in for donating legal funds. I might need ADCO's services in the near future, gotta make sure you stick around. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:17:45 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By duke23433: I am an attorney, I am not your attorney, I would request site staff delete this thread. My typical recommendation is radio silence. Does that happen with all my clients? Of course not. @duke23433 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:18:51 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By duke23433: I am an attorney, I am not your attorney, I would request site staff delete this thread. ^ probably the best free advice you'll get. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:19:16 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KILLERB6: I would like to know how she knew she was a prohibited possessor. I don’t think that’s something a non-gun person would about themselves. She had been hospitalized for mental health. That's probably something they tell you when you book out. |
|
|
|
NJ, USA
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:19:32 AM EDT
[#26]
Who else is calling the plaintiff’s attorney tomorrow to tell them they are pieces of shit?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:21:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: LuckyDucky]
[#27]
deleted
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:21:35 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By duke23433: I am an attorney, I am not your attorney, I would request site staff delete this thread. Reported! 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:22:07 AM EDT
[#29]
What the actual fuck. Hope it bankrupts the estate of the plaintiff and all your expenses are reimbursed. "clear red flags", my ass.
These relatives -- greedy & stupid -- may all fuck be upon them. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:22:36 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PreemptiveStrike:I'm sure (in fact I've seen with my own eyes) that gun stores get "weird" people in there shops all the time. I was going to say the same: every time I go in a gun store, a lot of the people there seem like weirdos. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:22:41 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LuckyDucky: All those posting that Zohn should be the liable one, certainly. But that doesn't necessarily mean OP couldn't be liable. Again, I don't know Ohio law, I am not OP's attorney, nor am I licensed in Ohio. OP should consult an Ohio lawyer about any suggestions or discussion of law in this thread. But in general, there are concepts of contributory or comparative negligence. Even if OP were liable, others could potentially be too, such as Zohn, the decedent Roebke (effectively the Plaintiff), her therapist, her family, and anybody that could conceivably have had a duty and breached such duty with respect to Roebke. This could reduce OP's potential liability, potentially to nothing depending on Ohio law. Again, I don't know Ohio law and whether it is strict contributory negligence, comparative, modified, or something else. OP should consult his Ohio lawyer. Withing the terms are right and wrong OP has no culpability. And WE ALL need to stand up for that in OUTRAGE, like the leftists do for their pet projects. If they twist the law into some culpability, well they have twisted the law. Quit telling us how that may not be true. No idea whats up with all that, but being the smartest kid in the room is not a virtue, especially when you don't know Ohio law. OP has said he is consulting an attorney. Sorry if thats blunt, not trying to be a dick, I am sure you probably weren't trying either. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:25:11 AM EDT
[#32]
This legal document reads like a high school debate club argument written by an overly dramatic teenage girl.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:25:12 AM EDT
[#33]
Does this mean that I can sue Ford and the State of NC for the Lady that ran a red light in her Explorer and nearly killed me? What were they thinking when they gave her a license?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:25:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dlshady: Absolutely! Damn shame that good people have to put up with this BS in the first place, and I'm terribly afraid it's only going to get worse in the coming years. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dlshady: Originally Posted By Lug1: @BigBore If you make some product, say along the line of the Dillo's LaRue makes to Nolo, I will purchase. I bet everybody will. Not a freebie fundraiser, everybody wins, and has a token to show for it. Just sayin.... Or you get a givesendgo I will donate to that. Just brain storming. Absolutely! Damn shame that good people have to put up with this BS in the first place, and I'm terribly afraid it's only going to get worse in the coming years. I’m in as well. We all need to stick together and support one another as best we can. If these commie pricks get their way, we’ll all have our turn in the barrel. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:26:16 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KILLERB6: I would like to know how she knew she was a prohibited possessor. I don’t think that’s something a non-gun person would about themselves. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KILLERB6: Originally Posted By sunburn: If I were in your shoes I would want to know what the medications were and what her mental health history was like. I would like to know how she knew she was a prohibited possessor. I don’t think that’s something a non-gun person would about themselves. She probably wasn't. Mental health records aren't tied into background checks unless a person was declared mentally defective through the court system. Medical records (and mental health) are protected under federal law and aren't tied into the background check. It was a straw purchase though because the person that bought the gun did so knowingly that it was for her and she thought she was a prohibited person. The buyer is fucked. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:26:24 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter: Ya'll are good people. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:26:50 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jb1001: The "red flags" cited are so subjective; not sure you can objectively prove something is a "red flag". I thought the defining message of the last 10 years was that no one should judge peoples relationships, even if they appear odd or different. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:27:50 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LuckyDucky: My typical recommendation is radio silence. Does that happen with all my clients? Of course not. @duke23433 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LuckyDucky: Originally Posted By duke23433: I am an attorney, I am not your attorney, I would request site staff delete this thread. My typical recommendation is radio silence. Does that happen with all my clients? Of course not. @duke23433 "I knew I had the RIGHT to remain silent... I just didn't have the ABILITY to remain silent ... Funny stuff from the 'Tater, but it does have that powerful element of truth... BIGGER_HAMMER
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:29:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Liaztraht]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TaskForce: She had been hospitalized for mental health. That's probably something they tell you when you book out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TaskForce: Originally Posted By KILLERB6: I would like to know how she knew she was a prohibited possessor. I don't think that's something a non-gun person would about themselves. She had been hospitalized for mental health. That's probably something they tell you when you book out. Did she volunteer to go, or was she forced? Pulled this from an AFT pdf A person is "committed to a mental institution" if that person has been formally committed to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. The term includes a commitment: To a mental institution involuntarily; For mental defectiveness or mental illness; or For other reasons, such as for drug use. The term does not include a person in a mental institution for observation or by voluntary admission. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:30:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: LuckyDucky]
[#40]
deleted
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:31:25 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TaskForce: She had been hospitalized for mental health. That's probably something they tell you when you book out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TaskForce: Originally Posted By KILLERB6: I would like to know how she knew she was a prohibited possessor. I don’t think that’s something a non-gun person would about themselves. She had been hospitalized for mental health. That's probably something they tell you when you book out. Medical records are protected under federal law, including mental health. a person would have to have been declared mentally unfit through the court system. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:31:25 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BobRoberts: I thought the defining message of the last 10 years was that no one should judge peoples relationships, even if they appear odd or different. That's a very good observation. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:32:45 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liaztraht: I thought it was only under involuntary commitment to a mental institution. Did she volunteer to go, or was she forced? Pulled this from an AFT pdf Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liaztraht: Originally Posted By TaskForce: Originally Posted By KILLERB6: I would like to know how she knew she was a prohibited possessor. I don't think that's something a non-gun person would about themselves. She had been hospitalized for mental health. That's probably something they tell you when you book out. Did she volunteer to go, or was she forced? Pulled this from an AFT pdf A person is "committed to a mental institution" if that person has been formally committed to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. The term includes a commitment: To a mental institution involuntarily; For mental defectiveness or mental illness; or For other reasons, such as for drug use. The term does not include a person in a mental institution for observation or by voluntary admission. This is correct, it would have to have been ordered by the court. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:35:52 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LuckyDucky: Is the best strategy to argue only that there can be no liability in OP's case, and not that if there is liability, it should be limited because... insert reasons here? What if he loses on motion to dismiss and summary judgment and has to go to trial? You might be right. You might not. What would a jury think? Did you focus group it? @Lug1 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LuckyDucky: Originally Posted By Lug1: Regardless of what you may be under the illusion of thinking, you are not helping at all in this situation. Withing the terms are right and wrong OP has no culpability. And WE ALL need to stand up for that in OUTRAGE, like the leftists do for their pet projects. If they twist the law into some culpability, well they have twisted the law. Quit telling us how that may not be true. No idea whats up with all that, but being the smartest kid in the room is not a virtue, especially when you don't know Ohio law. OP has said he is consulting an attorney. Sorry if thats blunt, not trying to be a dick, I am sure you probably weren't trying either. Is the best strategy to argue only that there can be no liability in OP's case, and not that if there is liability, it should be limited because... insert reasons here? What if he loses on motion to dismiss and summary judgment and has to go to trial? You might be right. You might not. What would a jury think? Did you focus group it? @Lug1 As a gun forum, not legal advice or obligation, we would be better served with pure support. You have, in my opinion, given reason why the OP could have culpability. And the shitbirds lawyer could be screen shotting it, saying to a jury, see even gun forums can't agree. Sorry those are my thoughts. In now way am I saying you are a bad person. I am saying you are caught up in your job rather than being a forum member. Liberty, do your thing, between you, the mods, and COC. And I am certainly not saying you are breaking the COC. I just don't think you are being helpful, HIS LAWYERS will do that. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:42:02 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lug1: My point is his good lawyers will counsel him on that. As a gun forum, not legal advice or obligation, we would be better served with pure support. You have, in my opinion, given reason why the OP could have culpability. And the shitbirds lawyer could be screen shotting it, saying to a jury, see even gun forums can't agree. Sorry those are my thoughts. In now way am I saying you are a bad person. I am saying you are caught up in your job rather than being a forum member. Liberty, do your thing, between you, the mods, and COC. And I am certainly not saying you are breaking the COC. I just don't think you are being helpful, HIS LAWYERS will do that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lug1: Originally Posted By LuckyDucky: Originally Posted By Lug1: Regardless of what you may be under the illusion of thinking, you are not helping at all in this situation. Withing the terms are right and wrong OP has no culpability. And WE ALL need to stand up for that in OUTRAGE, like the leftists do for their pet projects. If they twist the law into some culpability, well they have twisted the law. Quit telling us how that may not be true. No idea whats up with all that, but being the smartest kid in the room is not a virtue, especially when you don't know Ohio law. OP has said he is consulting an attorney. Sorry if thats blunt, not trying to be a dick, I am sure you probably weren't trying either. Is the best strategy to argue only that there can be no liability in OP's case, and not that if there is liability, it should be limited because... insert reasons here? What if he loses on motion to dismiss and summary judgment and has to go to trial? You might be right. You might not. What would a jury think? Did you focus group it? @Lug1 As a gun forum, not legal advice or obligation, we would be better served with pure support. You have, in my opinion, given reason why the OP could have culpability. And the shitbirds lawyer could be screen shotting it, saying to a jury, see even gun forums can't agree. Sorry those are my thoughts. In now way am I saying you are a bad person. I am saying you are caught up in your job rather than being a forum member. Liberty, do your thing, between you, the mods, and COC. And I am certainly not saying you are breaking the COC. I just don't think you are being helpful, HIS LAWYERS will do that. @Lug1 You're Mr. Lemar   Blazing Saddles - "Rivulets Of Thought ... " |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:44:48 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PreemptiveStrike: @Lug1 You're Mr. Lemar  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37v-6Zs5T10
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:46:45 AM EDT
[#47]
So, having done more backgrounds than I could count, how was she determined to be a prohibited person? People often misconstrue what the law actually says about mental health. Involuntary hospitalization is a broad term and does not automatically equal prohibited person status.
I like #9- Adco also violated it its duty of care I am guessing they didn't even auto-proof this one. If you follow #43 which claims ADCO is an agent of federal LE, sounds like qualified immunity would fall right in line with that. Also a huge assumption that she would not be dead by another method. #140 has some serious criminal allegations saying those laws were violated. Sounds like a good way to hit back with a civil suit. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:50:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GySgt_D]
[#48]
I find it peculiar that people tend to find the plaintiff's attorneys in such cases off limits.
They ought not feel safe trying to ruin people's lives. Speaking only of Minecraft, of course. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:51:40 AM EDT
[#49]
Definitely set up a fund for this. Yes, your insurance will take care of a lot of it. I’m personally in for $100 if there is a way to donate. Never used your services (yet) but I recommend it to many people.
Good luck; there are many people in this country out to get all retailers/manufacturers/retailers. Total BS. We are all in this together. If we don’t help out own, we are all fucked!!! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 12:52:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: LuckyDucky]
[#50]
Deleted
|
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
