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Posted: 4/6/2024 9:57:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: _DR]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OHBuckeyes: Except there are 8 Ducatis and many riders on them capable of winning. Unless they crash each other out like they did at Portimao. The KTMs made a very good showing. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/7/2024 5:52:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Not sure how they got the info but:
Aprilia's offer was hardly more than €4 million, less than a third of the amount Yamaha has retained Quartararo for https://us.motorsport.com/motogp/news/factors-quartararo-yamaha-motogp-renewal/10595341/ |
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USA
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Posted: 4/7/2024 9:05:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: baitdragger]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheOtherDave: IMO, Yamaha wants someone more consistent that Jack and after what happened with Vinales I don’t see him getting back with Yamaha-whether Martin takes the seat will depend on how well concessions work. IMO, The poor performance of the Japanese teams isn’t entirely on them, MotoGP allowing EIGHT fucking Ducatis on the grid and sharing Data on identically set up bikes is an obstacle that is pretty hard to overcome no matter how much money you have to throw at the problem. MotoGP’s lax standards with regard to the rules and what Ducati has done with Shape Shifting and Aero is the other half of the blame-Full credit to Ducati for making these things work and work well but they were all borderline illegal and MotoGP did fuck all about it until it crippled everyone else. Maybe they were worried that Ducati was going to pull out after soo many years of post-Stoper seasons of sucking dick, but now they have lost one Japanese manufacturer and are about to lose two more if the wildly generous concessions rules don’t provide fruitful improvement. Want to fix it? Ban all aero and shape shifting and give the Japanese more engines and fuel. Electronics need to be there-they are a part of motorcycling now. Yeah, it was the OMG interview I saw. Didn’t really care for the questions they were asking Jack-seemed like they were rubbing his nose in it a bit. I don’t know that WSB is quite the save haven for MotoGP riders that it was…. Plenty of talent already there and many of the riders won’t “step down” to that level. I wouldn’t blame Ducati for fielding 8 bikes. Any Japanese manufacturer could have fielded 4, Suzuki, Kawasaki, bmw all could be in the running with 2 bikes The real problem is FIA (F1) and Dorna. Allow Cadillac in F1 and entice other manufacturers in MGP to better the show. It’s not going to be fun watching Moto GP with 3 manufacturer and 6 bikes so if a team fields 8 bikes because no one else wants to….then whose to blame??? |
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Posted: 4/7/2024 9:12:10 PM EDT
[#4]
I’ve been reading that ‘27 season will feature 850cc bikes and no aero.
THAT should take a bite out of Ducati. |
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Posted: 4/7/2024 9:17:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheOtherDave]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By baitdragger: I wouldn’t blame Ducati for fielding 8 bikes. Any Japanese manufacturer could have fielded 4, Suzuki, Kawasaki, bmw all could be in the running with 2 bikes The real problem is FIA (F1) and Dorna. Allow Cadillac in F1 and entice other manufacturers in MGP to better the show. It’s not going to be fun watching Moto GP with 3 manufacturer and 6 bikes so if a team fields 8 bikes because no one else wants to….then whose to blame??? I don’t think the money is there to field multiple teams and after what happened to Tech 3 I can’t see too many people wanting to scour up a bunch of cash and a business plan to go racing on monkey models when MotoGP will just pencil-whip the rules when they want you gone. Given the current economic conditions, I think the factories would have to do all of the leg work and then approach someone to run it for them with sponsorship they arranged. Hell, Yamaha had to go looking pretty hard for the numbers they needed to retain Fabio-streetbike sales just don’t support high level racing for the Japanese companies like they used to. |
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Posted: 4/8/2024 10:57:35 AM EDT
[#6]
It's too bad. Used to love watching Wayne, Kevin & Mick winning on Suzukis, Yamahas and Hondas.
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Posted: 4/8/2024 7:19:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _DR: It's too bad. Used to love watching Wayne, Kevin & Mick winning on Suzukis, Yamahas and Hondas. It’s not for lack of trying-streetbikes are better, faster, safer, and wayyyy higher tech than they have ever been. The problem is that when the Plandemic happened, most of the Japanese companies put the brakes on developing new product and that allowed the European brands to leapfrog them. Only Yamaha has not been caught with their pants down with the R1 and R1M, and while those are arguably the most MotoGP derived bikes you can realistically buy (I have an R1M and it’s fantastic-but it’s a shitty streetbike with no midrange). But the Europeans are bringing a marginally more useful 20hp to the party and that matters to buyers. Doesn’t matter much on the street when you are making 190+ at the tire after derestricting as even the “slow” Japanese bikes need lots of electronic intervention at street speeds to be safe. On top of that, all consumer goods are selling poorly right now… What that has meant is a fairly robust market for entry level and middleweight motorcycles, and people don’t seem to want high end sportbikes except the old diehards like me…. And I’m pretty sure I have all the sportbikes I am ever going to buy right now. I just came back from 4 days riding in the mountains in TN doing the Tail of the Dragon and all the area roads and I just plain hurt. I need a super naked or an adventure bike. Those DO sell well, but again, the Japanese are half assing it so people buy European. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:10:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: anothermisanthrope]
[#8]
Anyone here brave enough to ride 2-up with Jack Miller? I'd have to do it but would know it was going to suck going into it
 Makes me want to see Jack get his shit together even more now.Gypsy tales podcast guy talks about the time he did:  How do MOTOGP riders find the Limit?? Gypsy Tales Explains the insanity of Motogp Riders! A buddy greased a lot of wheels to try and get his wife a 2-up ride with Bayliss (I think - or Corser) back when he was doing it for Ducati. She was supposed to be next but they ran out of time. My wife has done a few 2-up rides at trackdays with me and we're still married. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 12:30:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By anothermisanthrope: Anyone here brave enough to ride 2-up with Jack Miller? I'd have to do it but would know it was going to suck going into it Makes me want to see Jack get his shit together even more now.Gypsy tales podcast guy talks about the time he did:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s7SKFsANXkA buddy greased a lot of wheels to try and get his wife a 2-up ride with Bayliss (I think - or Corser) back when he was doing it for Ducati. She was supposed to be next but they ran out of time. My wife has done a few 2-up rides at trackdays with me and we're still married. Savage. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 6:30:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: anothermisanthrope]
[#10]
Bagger racing this weekend @ COTA. Can't wait.
 Weekend schedule: https://circuitoftheamericas.com/event/motogp/schedule/ Should be shown live on MAVTV (free channel on every streaming service) https://motoamerica.com/how-to-watch/?doing_wp_cron=1712778224.7546789646148681640625  Mission King of the Baggers Race 1 at Daytona 2024 - FULL RACE | MotoAmerica |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 7:24:04 AM EDT
[#11]
baby jesus will win a race this year
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:43:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Camper loaded up and headed to Austin. Expecting two Marquez crashes, hoping he only takes himself out. Sitting up high in Turn 12.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/13/2024 12:57:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMC2671]
[#13]
I nailed the pole qualifying time guess for today with 2:00:870 to the 2:00.864 actual.
+60pts (within 250 thousands) By one of my riders too. 
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Posted: 4/15/2024 12:55:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: _DR]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Maroonfeather: Camper loaded up and headed to Austin. Expecting two Marquez crashes, hoping he only takes himself out. Sitting up high in Turn 12. As it turns out, that was a bit prophetic. |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 9:35:55 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Maroonfeather: Camper loaded up and headed to Austin. Expecting two Marquez crashes, hoping he only takes himself out. Sitting up high in Turn 12. Didn't see this earlier, my son and I were on row 17 at turn 12.  Last lap of Moto2  Last lap of MotoGP  |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 9:55:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: _DR]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By electrojk: Didn't see this earlier, my son and I were on row 17 at turn 12. We might have passed each other in the stands. My family and I were at turn 12, section 2, row 17, seats 7-10!  |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 2:05:07 PM EDT
[#17]
We like to sit up high in turn 12 - section 10, row 34. We may try turn 14 next time. We sat at turn 15 entry on Saturday and liked it pretty well.
Sitting in the turn 12 area for F1 this year too. Good races this year, want to watch Moto3 when we get home. And the others too.  Attached File |
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USA
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Posted: 4/15/2024 2:09:35 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _DR: As it turns out, that was a bit prophetic. Well this was like prophesying that the sun would set in the evening and also rise again the following morning. |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 2:32:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: electrojk]
[#19]
Originally Posted By _DR: We might have passed each other in the stands. My family and I were at turn 12, section 2, row 17, seats 7-10! https://i.postimg.cc/KjX5N1p1/IMG-20240414-140102567.jpg We were in section 9. Originally Posted By Maroonfeather: We like to sit up high in turn 12 - section 10, row 34. We may try turn 14 next time. We sat at turn 15 entry on Saturday and liked it pretty well. Sitting in the turn 12 area for F1 this year too. Good races this year, want to watch Moto3 when we get home. And the others too. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18518/0E82399A-2BF2-4F9E-A18C-6AD36256AAD8_jpe-3188673.JPG We sat at turn 15 last year, wanted too again this year but I cheaped out and got turn 12 tickets for half price.  We were row 17, section 9 seats 23,24. We were just out of frame in your picture. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/15/2024 2:34:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: anothermisanthrope]
[#20]
Cool pictures thanks for posting. Anyone who went Sunday saw the best GP race (support classes were great too) period at COTA IMO. Good on you all. Baby Jesus is going to win more than one race this year (Jerez will be one to watch). And I didn't think so before and was on the hype train since moto3. Crazy what that kid is doing. 93 crashing out at the front after forgoing millions to be on a Ducati at "his" track - priceless. I don't think he'll ever win a race again.
Glad you brought hearing protection?  MA posted both bagger race highlights:  Mission King of the Baggers Race 1 at MotoGP COTA 2024 - HIGHLIGHTS | MotoAmerica  Mission King of the Baggers Race 2 at MotoGP COTA 2024 - HIGHLIGHTS | MotoAmerica |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:30:05 AM EDT
[#21]
Great race… and yes, baby Jesus will win a race this year.
You gotta know every team is looking at their riders and glancing back and forth at the Moto2 grid to see who is up for renewal… A whole lot of sacred cows are about to go to the glue factory IMO. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:42:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6172crew]
[#22]
No matter how many times we held up my Chip Roy flag we didn't get us on TV. Joe Roberts waved at us when he saw us and waved.
My boy JM43 needs a cheat code for tires. Turn15 are awesome seats if you ever have the option to grab some. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:44:32 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Maroonfeather: We like to sit up high in turn 12 - section 10, row 34. We may try turn 14 next time. We sat at turn 15 entry on Saturday and liked it pretty well. Sitting in the turn 12 area for F1 this year too. Good races this year, want to watch Moto3 when we get home. And the others too. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18518/0E82399A-2BF2-4F9E-A18C-6AD36256AAD8_jpe-3188673.JPG I agree turn 12 is a good place to watch, but I would have preferred more towards the turn, we were on the other end, and cound see the turn the the far right. But I needed 4 seats in a row, and purchased tickets late. My wife said she preferred to see the rider blowing by fast in the straightaway, rather than taking the turn though, so I guess it's all good. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:45:35 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By baitdragger: Well this was like prophesying that the sun would set in the evening and also rise again the following morning. True. But doesn't he get around $14 million/year to crash? |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:07:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By electrojk: We sat at turn 15 last year, wanted too again this year but I cheaped out and got turn 12 tickets for half price. We were row 17, section 9 seats 23,24. We were just out of frame in your picture. Damn, is there that big a price difference between 12 and 15?!? The wife noted 15 has seats instead of bleachers, so that’s worth a bit of a premium. Honestly though, MotoGP is so much cheaper than F1, it’s still probably not too awful. Lots to see at the GP weekend. Even racing with suitcases attached to the bikes! |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:54:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Maroonfeather: Damn, is there that big a price difference between 12 and 15?!? The wife noted 15 has seats instead of bleachers, so that’s worth a bit of a premium. Honestly though, MotoGP is so much cheaper than F1, it’s still probably not too awful. Lots to see at the GP weekend. Even racing with suitcases attached to the bikes! COTA was having a special when I bought tickets, 2 for $99. Turn 12 was all that was available. We sat at turn 15 last year and I don't remember paying more than $100 for each seat. I wish I didn't spoil my son by buying seats 2 years ago. Before that I would buy a GA ticket and he got in for free. We would sit somewhere different for each race depending on where we could find shade.  |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:04:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By electrojk: COTA was having a special when I bought tickets, 2 for $99. Turn 12 was all that was available. We sat at turn 15 last year and I don't remember paying more than $100 for each seat. I wish I didn't spoil my son by buying seats 2 years ago. Before that I would buy a GA ticket and he got in for free. We would sit somewhere different for each race depending on where we could find shade. I paid $109 for each seat in turn 12 bleachers. Next time I will buy earlier so I can get closer to the actual turn. Im parking at Dave & Carmen next year. COTA parking lot F took about an hour to get out of. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 10:30:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _DR: I paid $109 for each seat in turn 12 bleachers. Next time I will buy earlier so I can get closer to the actual turn. Im parking at Dave & Carmen next year. COTA parking lot F took about an hour to get out of. We parked in F, once we got to the truck we were on the toll road in less than 15 min.
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Posted: 4/16/2024 10:48:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By electrojk: COTA was having a special when I bought tickets, 2 for $99. Turn 12 was all that was available. We sat at turn 15 last year and I don't remember paying more than $100 for each seat. I wish I didn't spoil my son by buying seats 2 years ago. Before that I would buy a GA ticket and he got in for free. We would sit somewhere different for each race depending on where we could find shade. We usually walk around Friday and Saturday and sit all over, some GA, some when we can get up in the bleachers to check out the view. On Sunday, we sit in our paid seats and only move for beer intake and removal. Unless there's a decent gap in time between events, we might wander a bit. We paid $330 for 2 Turn 12 seats and parking in F for the 3 days ($198 seats, $45 parking, fees & shit). |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 7:23:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Maroonfeather: Damn, is there that big a price difference between 12 and 15?!? The wife noted 15 has seats instead of bleachers, so that’s worth a bit of a premium. Honestly though, MotoGP is so much cheaper than F1, it’s still probably not too awful. Lots to see at the GP weekend. Even racing with suitcases attached to the bikes! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Maroonfeather: Originally Posted By electrojk: We sat at turn 15 last year, wanted too again this year but I cheaped out and got turn 12 tickets for half price. We were row 17, section 9 seats 23,24. We were just out of frame in your picture. Damn, is there that big a price difference between 12 and 15?!? The wife noted 15 has seats instead of bleachers, so that’s worth a bit of a premium. Honestly though, MotoGP is so much cheaper than F1, it’s still probably not too awful. Lots to see at the GP weekend. Even racing with suitcases attached to the bikes! 15 is PSL seating, the 3 seats I own were close to $10K before the stands were built and I am on the hook for F1 and Motogp tickets about 6 months before the races. I can sell them or go but I have to buy them. I laso get C parking for motogp and E for F1. I pack up the back of the car with lunch and cold drinks and walk out when I run out. I think my 3 seats cost me close to $400 for motogp and close to $3000 for the F1. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 1:07:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By electrojk: We parked in F, once we got to the truck we were on the toll road in less than 15 min. What time did you leave? |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 3:07:50 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _DR: What time did you leave? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _DR: Originally Posted By electrojk: We parked in F, once we got to the truck we were on the toll road in less than 15 min. What time did you leave? As soon as the pack cleared turn 12 we headed for the exit. We got home in Hutto before 4pm. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 4:08:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By electrojk: As soon as the pack cleared turn 12 we headed for the exit. We got home in Hutto before 4pm. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By electrojk: Originally Posted By _DR: Originally Posted By electrojk: We parked in F, once we got to the truck we were on the toll road in less than 15 min. What time did you leave? As soon as the pack cleared turn 12 we headed for the exit. We got home in Hutto before 4pm. Oh, ok. we waited until after the victory lap. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/17/2024 8:09:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _DR: It's too bad. Used to love watching Wayne, Kevin & Mick winning on Suzukis, Yamahas and Hondas. Same. We went to the COA MotoGP in Austin. Had a blast! Great racing. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/17/2024 8:13:16 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By anothermisanthrope: Bagger racing this weekend @ COTA. Can't wait. https://www.motoamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/BJNB4227_P-scaled-350x200.jpg Weekend schedule: https://circuitoftheamericas.com/event/motogp/schedule/ Should be shown live on MAVTV (free channel on every streaming service) https://motoamerica.com/how-to-watch/?doing_wp_cron=1712778224.7546789646148681640625 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMhcBzhq74AWe watched that Bagger race. It was crazy how fast they went and the riders were tossing them around like nothing. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/17/2024 9:58:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _DR: True. But doesn't he get around $14 million/year to crash? Honda enjoyed their return on $ |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 7:10:56 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:09:47 PM EDT
[#38]
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USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 1:03:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: anothermisanthrope]
[#39]
If anyone told me back in 2006 that I'd like Dani Pedrosa I would never have stopped arguing. The pre-race podcast with him is fantastic and worth watching. You know 43 and 33 are feeling it.
Press conference 2 was pretty funny at the end. 
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Posted: 4/27/2024 1:11:10 AM EDT
[#40]
I missed WTF Pedrosa is doing back on a bike. How old is he now? Is he just in Spain this weekend, or rest of the season?
He had a pretty good getoff in practice, no injury that I can tell so far. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 1:45:26 AM EDT
[#41]
The old man was kicking ass last year in the wildcards...
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Posted: Yesterday 11:49:18 AM EDT
[#42]
Monster race by Pecco today !
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Posted: Yesterday 1:41:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Maroonfeather: I missed WTF Pedrosa is doing back on a bike. How old is he now? Is he just in Spain this weekend, or rest of the season? He had a pretty good getoff in practice, no injury that I can tell so far. He’s a KTM test rider and and has done a wild-card ride. He managed to embarrass 2/3 of the grid last time…. On an uncompetitive bike. I don’t feel that it’s a true representation of his speed-it was at their home track so he has a shitload of laps there… he’s fast no doubt, but his results weren’t representative of where he is relative to the field. I’m happy he’s riding and kicking up the pond though. |
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Posted: Yesterday 10:14:53 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheOtherDave: He’s a KTM test rider and and has done a wild-card ride. He managed to embarrass 2/3 of the grid last time…. On an uncompetitive bike. I don’t feel that it’s a true representation of his speed-it was at their home track so he has a shitload of laps there… he’s fast no doubt, but his results weren’t representative of where he is relative to the field. I’m happy he’s riding and kicking up the pond though. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheOtherDave: Originally Posted By Maroonfeather: I missed WTF Pedrosa is doing back on a bike. How old is he now? Is he just in Spain this weekend, or rest of the season? He had a pretty good getoff in practice, no injury that I can tell so far. He’s a KTM test rider and and has done a wild-card ride. He managed to embarrass 2/3 of the grid last time…. On an uncompetitive bike. I don’t feel that it’s a true representation of his speed-it was at their home track so he has a shitload of laps there… he’s fast no doubt, but his results weren’t representative of where he is relative to the field. I’m happy he’s riding and kicking up the pond though. I heard he's 38, so good for him that he's back out on the track, and doing a decent job. Bagnaia did a nice job fending off Marquez, very impressive result! I never heard what was going on in turn 13. It gobbled up riders all weekend long. I didn't notice any ripples or weird road conditions. |
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Posted: Yesterday 11:08:15 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Maroonfeather: I heard he's 38, so good for him that he's back out on the track, and doing a decent job. Bagnaia did a nice job fending off Marquez, very impressive result! I never heard what was going on in turn 13. It gobbled up riders all weekend long. I didn't notice any ripples or weird road conditions. Unfortunately, I won’t be able to see this weekend’s race-I watch on Fullmatchsports.cc and there are two races a year they don’t cover-no idea why. The highlight reels made it look like a race worth watching though. 
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Posted: Yesterday 11:32:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By McGuy: If it's faster, it's faster, but I surely do hate that feet waving around in the air into the corner riding style.  Watch this MotoGP racer drag his shoulder ?? Gotta love a good ol' fashion shoulder drag tho' |
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Posted: Today 6:49:34 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shung: Monster race by Pecco today ! Unbelievable run. Too bad the announcers couldn't stop masturbating over Marquez. What is it with these guys and Spanish riders? |
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USA
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Posted: Today 7:12:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: anothermisanthrope]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KnuckleSandwich: Unbelievable run. Too bad the announcers couldn't stop masturbating over Marquez. What is it with these guys and Spanish riders? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KnuckleSandwich: Originally Posted By Shung: Monster race by Pecco today ! Unbelievable run. Too bad the announcers couldn't stop masturbating over Marquez. What is it with these guys and Spanish riders? You could tell Pecco was managing a ~half second gap. I had to mute the TV it was so over the top with 93. Pretty sure we're going to see 16 in the big show next year. Enjoyed that Moto2 race. |
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Posted: Today 7:34:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: xylo]
[#49]
I would love for Joe to go to MotoGP. He's the only reason I watch Moto2. I kept waiting for him to disappoint, but he DID IT!!
ETA I didn't realize he's 26. He's getting near to aging out of the Moto world. |
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Posted: Today 7:59:15 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xylo: I would love for Joe to go to MotoGP. He's the only reason I watch Moto2. I kept waiting for him to disappoint, but he DID IT!! ETA I didn't realize he's 26. He's getting near to aging out of the Moto world. Joe has had his chance… I’m grateful to see any rider that’s not just another kid out of the Spanish and Italian puppy mills, but he’s been taking up space for at least two seasons now. |
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