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"Beware of old men. They may have killed braver men than you." TontoGoldstein
"America is at that awkward stage; it's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." |
Originally Posted By fadedsun: Kuwait was neither also but yet we launched a full scale war to push Saddam out. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: If Russia invaded Poland, that's an attack on an actual NATO country. Australia is party to the ANZUS treaty, meaning they are an actual ally via a ratified treaty. Ukraine is neither. Kuwait was neither also but yet we launched a full scale war to push Saddam out. Saddam fucked with oil. Dumb idea |
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Shit like this is why you don't give typewriters to monkeys. - L_JE
Colonialism, bringing ethnic diversity to a continent near you. - My Father Me being brief, this is like seeing a comet - Geralt55 |
Originally Posted By NavyDoc1: Don't forget "not a true conservative (tm)" by the self appointed arbiter of what is rational and conservative--notice that, of course, he paints himself up as being on the moral highground and without blemish or irrationality. He's perfect in his own mind. It's pure narcissism and indicative of deeply seated personal insecurity. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By NavyDoc1: Originally Posted By Sketti: Originally Posted By BillofRights: Originally Posted By Sketti: Originally Posted By BillofRights: Originally Posted By brass: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insulated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. Great question. It's by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here's my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5Q On the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America's global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we've always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It's kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: "You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ". - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin's carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: "We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again ". Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn't help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It's a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Yeah guys, like BillofRights says, you're just susceptible to sneaky Russian trolls who have been manipulating you into not supporting WWIII and giving endless tax payer monies to good guy Zelensky. Remember, its "mathematical fact" that American tax payer children's children's children should bare the burden of protecting European countries from the onslaught of Russian aggression. Thank you. Self-identification is always appreciated. The more honest we are, the more we can learn. If you were a knowledgeable American, you would know that our future generations are enslaved to Domestic Spending. Our military expenditures are necessary, but they are small, compared to everything else. We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt. Ah yes, there it is, I must be a "Russian troll" because I don't support the cult's message. "We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt." - You must be using retard math because with normal math, it's clear as day that giving billions of dollars we don't have to a corrupt county such as Ukraine does in fact add to the national debt. Don't forget "not a true conservative (tm)" by the self appointed arbiter of what is rational and conservative--notice that, of course, he paints himself up as being on the moral highground and without blemish or irrationality. He's perfect in his own mind. It's pure narcissism and indicative of deeply seated personal insecurity. Nice personal attack Doc. I’m far from perfect. I’ve never once claimed to be. |
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GD- "It's kind of like wading through through slimy lake bed with your feet to find clams below the surface".
- gtfoxy |
Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: You hate the west, so you can't claim to be a child of the west. You hate the west, because you stand for imperialism, authoritarianism, and wars of aggression and conquest which are contrary to the American values you falsely claim to support. View Quote Again, where did I say I hate the West? I very clearly stated what I hate, you ignore not it because I don’t know nor care. |
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It is interesting to see how we have been tricked into sacrificing ourselves to fight people who aren't at war with us because they are genuinely bad people when we know the globe is full of genuinely bad people who aren't at war with us.
Even more interesting to see how more than a few extremely loudmouthed people think this means they have a valid reason to do the equivalent of the leftist tactic of screaming "you're racist!" at people for not buying what they're selling. So here's what you call a clue: if the standard you use for saying we should be sacrificing in this place applies elsewhere but you won't apply that standard there too, you're a flaming hypocrite. ETA: In the middle of an election year no yet, dividing us over something that's a no-brainer issue where we shouldn't ever have been involved in the way we are. It's embarrasing how easily we are led around by our establishment. We might as well have cattle rings put in our noses. |
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: You're asking why the FSB was pushing to break up Ukraine after Russia's puppet abdicated and fled Kyiv back to Russia? Seriously? Apparently, arfcom has earned a better grade of Russian troll, with greater facility with the English language. BTW, 'egalitarianism' is 100% an original American value - that every person should have an equal opportunity to make something of themselves, that all should be treated equally under the law, no aristocracy who get special treatment. View Quote That was the concepts original intent, now it means holding everyone back as not offend the lowest common denominator. Great thing we don’t have an ruling elite who get special treatment today, uh? |
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Originally Posted By BillofRights: Nice personal attack Doc. I’m far from perfect. I’ve never once claimed to be. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By BillofRights: Originally Posted By NavyDoc1: Originally Posted By Sketti: Originally Posted By BillofRights: Originally Posted By Sketti: Originally Posted By BillofRights: Originally Posted By brass: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insulated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. Great question. It's by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here's my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5Q On the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America's global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we've always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It's kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: "You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ". - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin's carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: "We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again ". Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn't help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It's a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Yeah guys, like BillofRights says, you're just susceptible to sneaky Russian trolls who have been manipulating you into not supporting WWIII and giving endless tax payer monies to good guy Zelensky. Remember, its "mathematical fact" that American tax payer children's children's children should bare the burden of protecting European countries from the onslaught of Russian aggression. Thank you. Self-identification is always appreciated. The more honest we are, the more we can learn. If you were a knowledgeable American, you would know that our future generations are enslaved to Domestic Spending. Our military expenditures are necessary, but they are small, compared to everything else. We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt. Ah yes, there it is, I must be a "Russian troll" because I don't support the cult's message. "We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt." - You must be using retard math because with normal math, it's clear as day that giving billions of dollars we don't have to a corrupt county such as Ukraine does in fact add to the national debt. Don't forget "not a true conservative (tm)" by the self appointed arbiter of what is rational and conservative--notice that, of course, he paints himself up as being on the moral highground and without blemish or irrationality. He's perfect in his own mind. It's pure narcissism and indicative of deeply seated personal insecurity. Nice personal attack Doc. I’m far from perfect. I’ve never once claimed to be. Yet here you are talking down to everyone who doesn't line up with your personal vision of "conservatism." You sure as hell are acting like you think you are perfect. |
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The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. ~Thomas Jefferson~
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: I don't. I think we should have been sending them shiploads of armaments to fight off the invaders. If that had been done timely and in real quantity, it would have made a difference in the war. View Quote Do those armaments grow on trees? Who pays for them? Because someone has to. |
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Originally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: Why do you believe people living in the East should be denied their right to self determination? View Quote Like Chechnya, Dagestan, and other regions that revolted against Moscow? It's amazing that all these places only have "Ethnic Russian speakers" where Russian soldiers are. Do you agree, @dagoth-UR ? |
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connoisseur of fine Soviet armored vehicles
Let's go Brandon Staff NCO in the Arfcom pro-Ukraine Army |
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connoisseur of fine Soviet armored vehicles
Let's go Brandon Staff NCO in the Arfcom pro-Ukraine Army |
Originally Posted By BillofRights: Thank you. Self-identification is always appreciated. The more honest we are, the more we can learn. If you were a knowledgeable American, you would know that our future generations are enslaved to Domestic Spending. Our military expenditures are necessary, but they are small, compared to everything else. We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn’t make a bit of difference to our National debt. View Quote Relevant: the entire US defense spending is about 20% of the annual budget deficit. You could cut ALL foreign aid, ALL defense spending, and we'd still be just as broke as the aid detractors complain about. |
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Originally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: Yeah, reality is alot like the Moon, it’s a harsh mistress. View Quote Like how there was never any movement to seize the eastern parts of Ukraine until the Russian puppet was pushed out? Interesting timing. Almost like your claim is simply window dressing for the Kremlin's ulterior motives. |
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connoisseur of fine Soviet armored vehicles
Let's go Brandon Staff NCO in the Arfcom pro-Ukraine Army |
Originally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: Why do you believe people living in the East should be denied their right to self determination? View Quote You're speaking of Ukraine. People living in Donbas WERE denied their right to self-determination when the Russians invaded in 2014. They voted to support independence in 1991 with 87% majority. Pew Research found 75% support for Kyiv in Donbas including among Russian speakers in 2014 after Crimea was invaded and before Donbas was invaded. If FSB weren't all over Ukraine's business for the last 25 years, there would have been NO 'separatists.' This is why people talking about oppression of Russian minority are literally Russian enablers. Sometimes unwittingly I'm sure, but Russian enablers just the same. There is no basis for the claim, it is an FSB fantasy, but propagandists and useful idiots keep repeating it. |
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Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Yeah. Well "America First" was originally a pro-Nazi movement headed by Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh. It is history is rhyming. View Quote So not wanting to join an avoidable war (after seeing the hell the last one produced) makes a person pro-Nazi? Guess the Founders were “pro-Nazi” then. Again your point and Ree tactic is no different then leftists screaming “racist” and is about as effective. Many of us has learned from history and are not going to make the same mistakes because people like you are not willing to admit you were wrong, learn, or just because you want to “relive the “Good War””, ok? Look at what interventionism has given us? Debt, death, and never ending obligations that we never wanted, This Invade the world, Invite the world, Indebt to the world death spiral only benefits the elites at the cost of ourselves, our posterity, our wealth, our freedoms and our future merely so a hostile elite can bled us dry while eliminating those who refuse to submit to their agendas. |
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Wow, the Dagoth troll really crapped all over this thread.
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A true Texan would never leave his friends behind!
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: You're speaking of Ukraine. People living in Donbas WERE denied their right to self-determination when the Russians invaded in 2014. They voted to support independence in 1991 with 87% majority. Pew Research found 75% support for Kyiv in Donbas including among Russian speakers in 2014 after Crimea was invaded and before Donbas was invaded. If FSB weren't all over Ukraine's business for the last 25 years, there would have been NO 'separatists.' This is why people talking about oppression of Russian minority are literally Russian enablers. Sometimes unwittingly I'm sure, but Russian enablers just the same. There is no basis for the claim, it is an FSB fantasy, but propagandists and useful idiots keep repeating it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: Why do you believe people living in the East should be denied their right to self determination? You're speaking of Ukraine. People living in Donbas WERE denied their right to self-determination when the Russians invaded in 2014. They voted to support independence in 1991 with 87% majority. Pew Research found 75% support for Kyiv in Donbas including among Russian speakers in 2014 after Crimea was invaded and before Donbas was invaded. If FSB weren't all over Ukraine's business for the last 25 years, there would have been NO 'separatists.' This is why people talking about oppression of Russian minority are literally Russian enablers. Sometimes unwittingly I'm sure, but Russian enablers just the same. There is no basis for the claim, it is an FSB fantasy, but propagandists and useful idiots keep repeating it. Seems like we don't really know for sure what the people there wanted. A smart cookie would never have gotten involved in those conditions. |
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I'm just here to mine the salt.
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Originally Posted By macpherson: Whats disturbing is you pretending that it's still 1962 and Russia is still our mortal enemy. It isn't and hasn't been for decades. It may never be our friend, but we have REAL enemies (China, Iran, western leftists) who you are ignoring while trying to throw every penny of treasure and weapon we have fighting someone else's war against an opponent who isn't threatening us. Why do you persist in this? Russia is not a threat to the US, period. The Iranian Houthis are more of a threat to us than Russia is right now. The US is BROKE, we have millions of invaders crossing our border, China is threatening Taiwan and with it our entire technology base, and all you Cold War boomers can think about is jerking off to your fantasies of killing Russians. To hell with it and to hell with Ukraine. View Quote Good to see others see the writing on the wall. |
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: It's hugely different. Replacing arms puts Americans to work in good paying jobs. While the weapons we sent kill commies. Win-win. Best value for tax expenditures there is. View Quote They are not communists, hell their economy (likely) has fewer rules, regulations, etc then ours. |
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Originally Posted By Tiberius: Since none of that happened until Putin sent Girkin and his forces into Donbass to do it to Ukrainians..your apologetics for fascism speaks volumes about you. You people are lucky the Avila don’t own this site anymore. View Quote lol, fascism now? I thought it was communism? |
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: If Russia has pledged to oppose US interests and actions anywhere in the world, how are they not an enemy? It's absolutely comical that you cast Iran as a REAL enemy, when Iran would have nothing if not for Russian aid. What makes Iran dangerous is their support from Russia. So the central, critical ally of our REAL enemy is not our enemy? I'll just accept you haven't paid any attention to anything Russia's leaders have been saying. Not threatening us, LOL. View Quote Is the interests of the US government and its donor/elite class the same as those of the America people? |
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Originally Posted By Tiberius: Tell us more……was Gavrilo Princip a MI6 operative, or did they use the Jewish mind-control satellites to make Kaiser Bill issue a blank check to the Austrian-Hungarian Empire? Or was it both? View Quote Started was a wrong word, needless escalated into a larger conflict. I don’t see how a conflict that resulted in millions dead from war, 100 million dead from the spread of the Spanish Flu, and another 150 million plus dead and 1.2 Billion enslaved under Communism a funny or good thing, I don’t know how anyone could. |
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[Insert creative words here]
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Originally Posted By BillofRights: Did you even read it? I covered your concerns In Detail. Yes, we are broke. With Ukraine, or without Ukraine. Yes, we are being over run by illegal immigrants. Abandoning Ukraine will not slow it, or stop it. In fact, a Rational person would deduce that it would ADD ~10,000,000 more desperate immigrants. You are mad at me for pointing out the obvious. View Quote M Self preservation, likes Charity, starts at home. You can’t help others if you yourself are fucked up beyond repair. |
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Originally Posted By BillofRights: I would be interested to know how many traditional rational conservatives we have left in America. Not necessarily Ukraine supporters, but just Traditional and Rational. Arfcom is probably a bad place to get a sample, for all the reasons I stated. View Quote How many see conservatism as losing everything, just at a slower rate and have adopted worldviews that halt and reverse the decline, rather then “conserve” it? |
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Originally Posted By NavyDoc1: It's almost like that they keep forgetting that the Ukraine is not the United States-- that it is not our country. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By NavyDoc1: Originally Posted By Sketti: Originally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By Sketti: Yes, the deficit and national debt should be under control now. The printed billions of stolen tax payer monies given to dear leader doesn't really count because we borrowed it from our children's children's children. But are they? Not a peep when Trump sent aid to Ukraine or had Americans in Ukraine training Ukrainians? I suspect it was rather quiet on your part. You suspect that, do ya! It's almost like that they keep forgetting that the Ukraine is not the United States-- that it is not our country. The sex trade out of Ukraine is too good to let a few pesky Russians ruin it. |
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[Insert creative words here]
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Originally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: They are not communists, hell their economy (likely) has fewer rules, regulations, etc then ours. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: They are not communists, hell their economy (likely) has fewer rules, regulations, etc then ours. Do they have freedom of speech, @dagoth-ur ? Can I go to red square and hold up a sign that says Putin is lying and the war isn't going well? Can I say Shoigu and Gerasimov are war criminals? Fascists and communists wouldn't allow such talk but I am sure Russia allows people to speak freely, right? Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k: Seems like we don't really know for sure what the people there wanted. A smart cookie would never have gotten involved in those conditions. They voted overwhelmingly for independence from Russia. Russia even signed two treaties recognizing the independence of Ukraine. That turned out so well Originally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: lol, fascism now? I thought it was communism? Why not both? They fly communist flags, hold positions that the USSR held, and openly talk of reversing the tragedy of 1991 and claim all the old Empire and USSR lands. |
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connoisseur of fine Soviet armored vehicles
Let's go Brandon Staff NCO in the Arfcom pro-Ukraine Army |
Originally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: So not wanting to join an avoidable war (after seeing the hell the last one produced) makes a person pro-Nazi? Guess the Founders were “pro-Nazi” then. Again your point and Ree tactic is no different then leftists screaming “racist” and is about as effective. Many of us has learned from history and are not going to make the same mistakes because people like you are not willing to admit you were wrong, learn, or just because you want to “relive the “Good War””, ok? Look at what interventionism has given us? Debt, death, and never ending obligations that we never wanted, This Invade the world, Invite the world, Indebt to the world death spiral only benefits the elites at the cost of ourselves, our posterity, our wealth, our freedoms and our future merely so a hostile elite can bled us dry while eliminating those who refuse to submit to their agendas. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Yeah. Well "America First" was originally a pro-Nazi movement headed by Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh. It is history is rhyming. So not wanting to join an avoidable war (after seeing the hell the last one produced) makes a person pro-Nazi? Guess the Founders were “pro-Nazi” then. Again your point and Ree tactic is no different then leftists screaming “racist” and is about as effective. Many of us has learned from history and are not going to make the same mistakes because people like you are not willing to admit you were wrong, learn, or just because you want to “relive the “Good War””, ok? Look at what interventionism has given us? Debt, death, and never ending obligations that we never wanted, This Invade the world, Invite the world, Indebt to the world death spiral only benefits the elites at the cost of ourselves, our posterity, our wealth, our freedoms and our future merely so a hostile elite can bled us dry while eliminating those who refuse to submit to their agendas. Except that WWII was not an unavoidable war. Yes FDR was a colossal POS but he did not tell Japan to bomb Pearl Harbor. Things to ponder. |
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Potentate plenipotentiary sans portfolio
USA
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Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner: Nope. Ukrainian central bank held as "reserves", though it is running low. Said to be enough to last through "most" of 2024, whatever that may mean. Will it be taxed at a higher rate as thumbnail says? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner: Originally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner: Thumbnail says Ukraine to raise taxes. Will that include the civil service pensions paid with US tax dollars? Hold up, new aid has been approved? Nope. Ukrainian central bank held as "reserves", though it is running low. Said to be enough to last through "most" of 2024, whatever that may mean. Will it be taxed at a higher rate as thumbnail says? @fadedsun You faded away without answering. |
" If govt parsimony is economic madness, and debt-fuelled govt spending a recipe for riches, why aren't the Greeks bailing out the Germans?"
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Originally Posted By fadedsun: Like Chechnya, Dagestan, and other regions that revolted against Moscow? It's amazing that all these places only have "Ethnic Russian speakers" where Russian soldiers are. Do you agree, @dagoth-UR ? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: Why do you believe people living in the East should be denied their right to self determination? Like Chechnya, Dagestan, and other regions that revolted against Moscow? It's amazing that all these places only have "Ethnic Russian speakers" where Russian soldiers are. Do you agree, @dagoth-UR ? I agree that where Dagoth is, you'll find an ethnic Russian speaker. |
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Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner: @fadedsun You faded away without answering. View Quote I'm sorry, in a thread with 7 pages and dozens of responses I missed something Who knows if it'll be taxed higher. That neither picks your pocket nor breaks your leg, does it? To paraphrase someone in this thread: "You don't own my labor" |
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connoisseur of fine Soviet armored vehicles
Let's go Brandon Staff NCO in the Arfcom pro-Ukraine Army |
Potentate plenipotentiary sans portfolio
USA
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Originally Posted By BillofRights: Thank you. Self-identification is always appreciated. The more honest we are, the more we can learn. If you were a knowledgeable American, you would know that our future generations are enslaved to Domestic Spending. Our military expenditures are necessary, but they are small, compared to everything else. We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn’t make a bit of difference to our National debt. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By BillofRights: Originally Posted By Sketti: Originally Posted By BillofRights: Originally Posted By brass: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insulated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. Great question. It's by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here's my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5Q On the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America's global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we've always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It's kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: "You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ". - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin's carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: "We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again ". Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn't help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It's a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Yeah guys, like BillofRights says, you're just susceptible to sneaky Russian trolls who have been manipulating you into not supporting WWIII and giving endless tax payer monies to good guy Zelensky. Remember, its "mathematical fact" that American tax payer children's children's children should bare the burden of protecting European countries from the onslaught of Russian aggression. Thank you. Self-identification is always appreciated. The more honest we are, the more we can learn. If you were a knowledgeable American, you would know that our future generations are enslaved to Domestic Spending. Our military expenditures are necessary, but they are small, compared to everything else. We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn’t make a bit of difference to our National debt. 1/5 th of US budget and we can't produce enough artillery shells for a regional war. Attached File |
" If govt parsimony is economic madness, and debt-fuelled govt spending a recipe for riches, why aren't the Greeks bailing out the Germans?"
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Potentate plenipotentiary sans portfolio
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Originally Posted By fadedsun: I'm sorry, in a thread with 7 pages and dozens of responses I missed something Who knows if it'll be taxed higher. That neither picks your pocket nor breaks your leg, does it? To paraphrase someone in this thread: "You don't own my labor" View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner: @fadedsun You faded away without answering. I'm sorry, in a thread with 7 pages and dozens of responses I missed something Who knows if it'll be taxed higher. That neither picks your pocket nor breaks your leg, does it? To paraphrase someone in this thread: "You don't own my labor" You haven't missed a single post in this thread. You implied that the US was no longer paying Ukrainian pensions as no new aid has been approved. You were "incorrect". When asked if this US paid pensions would be taxed at a higher rate by Ukraine....you faded out. |
" If govt parsimony is economic madness, and debt-fuelled govt spending a recipe for riches, why aren't the Greeks bailing out the Germans?"
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Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner: 1/5 th of US budget and we can't produce enough artillery shells for a regional war. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/119347/main_png-3156668.JPG View Quote Because the Defense budget is not the same as Ukraine aid. American ordnance factories are cranking out shells at double the rate of pre war and it is going to be 3x that probably by the end of the year. End of 2025 the plan is for 100k per month. |
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connoisseur of fine Soviet armored vehicles
Let's go Brandon Staff NCO in the Arfcom pro-Ukraine Army |
Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner: You haven't missed a single post in this thread. You implied that the US was no longer paying Ukrainian pensions as no new aid has been approved. You were "incorrect". When asked if this US paid pensions would be taxed at a higher rate by Ukraine....you faded out. View Quote New aid has been approved? Please point out where I've missed plenty of posts in this thread. There's been a few pages I haven't responded to at all. I just finished cutting my grass a little while ago. Contrary to popular belief I do have other things to do on a day off. |
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connoisseur of fine Soviet armored vehicles
Let's go Brandon Staff NCO in the Arfcom pro-Ukraine Army |
pro Ukraine cupcakes should be shipped off to fight.
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Originally Posted By fadedsun: Do they have freedom of speech, @dagoth-ur ? Can I go to red square and hold up a sign that says Putin is lying and the war isn't going well? Can I say Shoigu and Gerasimov are war criminals? Fascists and communists wouldn't allow such talk but I am sure Russia allows people to speak freely, right? They voted overwhelmingly for independence from Russia. Russia even signed two treaties recognizing the independence of Ukraine. That turned out so well Why not both? They fly communist flags, hold positions that the USSR held, and openly talk of reversing the tragedy of 1991 and claim all the old Empire and USSR lands. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: They are not communists, hell their economy (likely) has fewer rules, regulations, etc then ours. Do they have freedom of speech, @dagoth-ur ? Can I go to red square and hold up a sign that says Putin is lying and the war isn't going well? Can I say Shoigu and Gerasimov are war criminals? Fascists and communists wouldn't allow such talk but I am sure Russia allows people to speak freely, right? Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k: Seems like we don't really know for sure what the people there wanted. A smart cookie would never have gotten involved in those conditions. They voted overwhelmingly for independence from Russia. Russia even signed two treaties recognizing the independence of Ukraine. That turned out so well Originally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: lol, fascism now? I thought it was communism? Why not both? They fly communist flags, hold positions that the USSR held, and openly talk of reversing the tragedy of 1991 and claim all the old Empire and USSR lands. "Do they have freedom of speech, @dagoth-ur ?" " Can I go to red square and hold up a sign that says Putin is lying and the war isn't going well?" - Seriously, is that the matrix you want to use!? Cause we all know dear leader Zelensky is a champion of free speech, just ask American Gonzalo Lira.. oh wait |
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#Pureblood
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Originally Posted By Sketti: Yeah guys, like BillofRights says, you're just susceptible to sneaky Russian trolls who have been manipulating you into not supporting WWIII and giving endless tax payer monies to good guy Zelensky. Remember, its "mathematical fact" that American tax payer children's children's children should bare the burden of protecting European countries from the onslaught of Russian aggression. View Quote All that post says “well you do have legitimate grievances, but your just dumb rubes for not supporting the actions of the elites”, SMDH |
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Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: If Russia invaded Poland, that's an attack on an actual NATO country. Australia is party to the ANZUS treaty, meaning they are an actual ally via a ratified treaty. Ukraine is neither. View Quote And frankly even then, I don’t give a shit. Gun control doesn’t work, Nuclear Gun Control doesn’t work. Nuclearize or get invaded. |
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Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: I guess nobody got the word that Trump's 500 mile wall that he made Mexico pay for has been so great at keeping migrants out. lol View Quote You mean that wall that was not finished because Congress didn’t fund the 5 billion requested while giving Israel 38 Billion? That Wall? |
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Originally Posted By TAG_Match: Exactly! Why does it always have to be the US giving away the citizens labor? View Quote “Muh WoRlD wAR TwO!”/s This idiotic idealism of “to whom much is given, much is expected” mixed nonsense of pathological altruism with a heavy coating of virtue signaling, they love to give away that which isn’t there’s to give…So long as it doesn’t effect them negatively. |
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