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Posted: 4/9/2024 9:51:53 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OregonShooter: Are we just going to disregard the newcomers that parished trying to maintain the bridge? In terms of what? Naming the new bridge? |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 10:02:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Hook a few of these bitches up to it. Pull hard enough and something will happen. That something may not be what you want and it may even involve someone getting killed, but something WILL happen if you pull hard though.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwpIW3hWQ0MThat video is an absolute cock tease. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 10:04:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: -SkyRaider-]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoBrau: That video is an absolute cock tease. Is 310 tonnes (342 tons) a good pull? |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 10:10:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -SkyRaider-: In terms of what? Naming the new bridge? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Originally Posted By OregonShooter: Are we just going to disregard the newcomers that parished trying to maintain the bridge? In terms of what? Naming the new bridge? Yeah I assumed there would be a push to name it after an illegal that died on it. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 10:11:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: LoBrau]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Is 310 tonnes (342 tons) a good pull? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Originally Posted By LoBrau: That video is an absolute cock tease. Is 310 tonnes (342 tons) a good pull? I didn't have sound on so I have no idea. I wanted to see it tear the bollard out, or at least put a hurting on it. All they showed was some prop wash. 
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Posted: 4/9/2024 10:22:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoBrau: I didn't have sound on so I have no idea. I wanted to see it tear the bollard out, or at least put a hurting on it. All they showed was some prop wash. What's the basic principle of a tug? Large diameter, shallow pitch prop mated to an engine stroked for torque? |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 10:31:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Maybe dumb question. They talk about salvage operators being on site. If salvage crews lift containers off the ship - who now owns that container and it's contents? I'm not familiar with ocean going salvage law.
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Posted: 4/9/2024 11:20:57 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnh57: Maybe dumb question. They talk about salvage operators being on site. If salvage crews lift containers off the ship - who now owns that container and it's contents? I'm not familiar with ocean going salvage law. I'm guessing the same people who owned the containers and contents before since they aren't flotsam or jetsam. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 1:45:34 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OregonShooter: Are we just going to disregard the newcomers that parished trying to maintain the bridge? I will not. “perished” |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 2:24:33 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Is 310 tonnes (342 tons) a good pull? A tug boat with 5000 horsepower (which is close to the max of Dann Ocean Towing’s largest tugboats) will provide approximately 50-70 tons of static bollard pull. https://www.dannoceantowing.com/fleet/ So 342 tons of pull is off the charts |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 6:05:20 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: A tug boat with 5000 horsepower (which is close to the max of Dann Ocean Towing's largest tugboats) will provide approximately 50-70 tons of static bollard pull. https://www.dannoceantowing.com/fleet/ So 342 tons of pull is off the charts Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: Originally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Is 310 tonnes (342 tons) a good pull? A tug boat with 5000 horsepower (which is close to the max of Dann Ocean Towing's largest tugboats) will provide approximately 50-70 tons of static bollard pull. https://www.dannoceantowing.com/fleet/ So 342 tons of pull is off the charts Basic rule of thumb is 20-40 lbs of force per horsepower depending on prop design for a static pull. So yeah 50-70 tons is about right for a 5k hp tug. 342 is up there. Yanking oil platform anchors isn't a job for a harbor tug though, different job than parking container ships. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 6:38:27 PM EDT
[#12]
 NTSB focuses on cargo ship's electrical issues in collision with Key Bridge |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 9:47:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Weeks has a crane there doing the container offload. I dont know if its Weeks guys running it (Im pretty sure it is) because I havent talked to any of them. Its pretty slow going right now, they havent moved too many containers yet.
The containers are not subject to open salvage, for a few reasons. Also, keep in mind that the vessel is still manned and operational. Technically speaking, they could light off and extract themselves. It wouldnt do them much good, but the main engine never suffered a significant casualty. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 9:53:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd341: Static pull and dynamic pull are different also. Props change efficiency due to flow effects of moving through the water. Basic rule of thumb is 20-40 lbs of force per horsepower depending on prop design for a static pull. So yeah 50-70 tons is about right for a 5k hp tug. 342 is up there. Yanking oil platform anchors isn't a job for a harbor tug though, different job than parking container ships. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd341: Originally Posted By realwar: Originally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Is 310 tonnes (342 tons) a good pull? A tug boat with 5000 horsepower (which is close to the max of Dann Ocean Towing's largest tugboats) will provide approximately 50-70 tons of static bollard pull. https://www.dannoceantowing.com/fleet/ So 342 tons of pull is off the charts Basic rule of thumb is 20-40 lbs of force per horsepower depending on prop design for a static pull. So yeah 50-70 tons is about right for a 5k hp tug. 342 is up there. Yanking oil platform anchors isn't a job for a harbor tug though, different job than parking container ships.  |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 6:12:54 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eesmith: They're both fun jobs for sure, but I prefer the AHTS gig overall. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/IMG_0411-3184527.jpg @eesmith How often to lines break while towing? And...what typically happens when a line breaks? Thanks. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 4:51:07 PM EDT
[#16]
 Baltimore Key Bridge Debris Cleanup Progress Update |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 12:04:55 AM EDT
[#17]
NTSB Focusing on Dali Ship Circuit Breakers
 NTSB Focusing on Dali Ship Circuit Breakers | Bridge Collapse |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 2:56:06 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: NTSB Focusing on Dali Ship Circuit Breakers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldiIWqqxZBUHe leaps to some unsupported conjectures about the circuit breakers’ possible role in the incident. Showing a damaged home circuit breaker panel is simply grandstanding, with no actual evidence to link it to what is being investigated on the ship. |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 9:53:20 AM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 4/12/2024 3:33:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Debris Salvage
 What Do They Do With Key Bridge Collapse Debris Salvage? |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 4/12/2024 3:46:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eesmith: They're both fun jobs for sure, but I prefer the AHTS gig overall. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/IMG_0411-3184527.jpg It's been said before, we need a 'like' button. That's awesome, Erin. 
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/12/2024 6:00:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eesmith: They're both fun jobs for sure, but I prefer the AHTS gig overall. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/IMG_0411-3184527.jpg Is that an old Seacor AHTS? The grey cargo rails and orange deck locker is why I was thinking Seacor. |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 12:10:23 AM EDT
[#23]
 FAST Clearing Shipping Channel Key Bridge Collapse Salvage |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 1:41:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: brass]
[#24]
Looks like they somehow scraped or moved the roadway from the half/temporary channel after lifting that truss section out of the main limited access channel which will be open once the Dali is removed.
 From:
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Posted: 4/15/2024 6:46:43 AM EDT
[#25]
Will progress likely speed up once the ship is freed?
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Posted: 4/15/2024 7:35:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Chokey]
[#26]
FEDERAL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION OPENED INTO BALTIMORE BRIDGE CRASH The FBI has opened a criminal investigation focusing on the massive container ship that brought down the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore last month — a probe that will look at least in part at whether the crew left the port knowing the vessel had serious systems problems, according to two U.S. officials familiar with the matter. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/04/15/balitmore-key-bridge-criminal-investigation/ |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 8:10:33 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
FEDERAL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION OPENED INTO BALTIMORE BRIDGE CRASH The FBI has opened a criminal investigation focusing on the massive container ship that brought down the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore last month — a probe that will look at least in part at whether the crew left the port knowing the vessel had serious systems problems, according to two U.S. officials familiar with the matter. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/04/15/balitmore-key-bridge-criminal-investigation/ With damages in the billions, this has to be standard procedure. I'm sure it kicks in much lower than that, even without political pressure. |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 4/15/2024 10:19:30 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Is 310 tonnes (342 tons) a good pull? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Originally Posted By LoBrau: That video is an absolute cock tease. Is 310 tonnes (342 tons) a good pull? 693,500lbf of pull? Yeah, that's a pretty good tug. |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 7:52:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass: Looks like they somehow scraped or moved the roadway from the half/temporary channel after lifting that truss section out of the main limited access channel which will be open once the Dali is removed. https://i.imgur.com/S5mugdR.jpeg From:
@brass How and why were the piers constructed like that? Would they have used a cofferdam? Thanks. |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 9:41:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -SkyRaider-: @brass How and why were the piers constructed like that? Would they have used a cofferdam? Thanks. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Originally Posted By brass: Looks like they somehow scraped or moved the roadway from the half/temporary channel after lifting that truss section out of the main limited access channel which will be open once the Dali is removed. https://i.imgur.com/S5mugdR.jpeg From:
@brass How and why were the piers constructed like that? Would they have used a cofferdam? Thanks. I have no idea there. Maybe they thought driving 4 piles a lot deeper than they could have dug with a cofferdam? Then bolt on pre-fab support to cast the pylon on? I'll wait for structural guys to comment on it, seems they have 4 piles going down and supporting a steel separation plate to hold up the pylon and can't think of a reason off the top of my head. I'd imagine they had a dam around it during construction, just needed a way to secure the pylon to the bedrock? |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 10:08:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass: I have no idea there. Maybe they thought driving 4 piles a lot deeper than they could have dug with a cofferdam? Then bolt on pre-fab support to cast the pylon on? I'll wait for structural guys to comment on it, seems they have 4 piles going down and supporting a steel separation plate to hold up the pylon and can't think of a reason off the top of my head. I'd imagine they had a dam around it during construction, just needed a way to secure the pylon to the bedrock? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass: Originally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Originally Posted By brass: Looks like they somehow scraped or moved the roadway from the half/temporary channel after lifting that truss section out of the main limited access channel which will be open once the Dali is removed. https://i.imgur.com/S5mugdR.jpeg From:
@brass How and why were the piers constructed like that? Would they have used a cofferdam? Thanks. I have no idea there. Maybe they thought driving 4 piles a lot deeper than they could have dug with a cofferdam? Then bolt on pre-fab support to cast the pylon on? I'll wait for structural guys to comment on it, seems they have 4 piles going down and supporting a steel separation plate to hold up the pylon and can't think of a reason off the top of my head. I'd imagine they had a dam around it during construction, just needed a way to secure the pylon to the bedrock? Per an interview with one of the original guys who helped dig the holes for the supports posted way earlier in the thread, they used coffer dams. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:06:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: brass]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoBrau: Per an interview with one of the original guys who helped dig the holes for the supports posted way earlier in the thread, they used coffer dams. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoBrau: Originally Posted By brass: Originally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Originally Posted By brass: Looks like they somehow scraped or moved the roadway from the half/temporary channel after lifting that truss section out of the main limited access channel which will be open once the Dali is removed. https://i.imgur.com/S5mugdR.jpeg From:
@brass How and why were the piers constructed like that? Would they have used a cofferdam? Thanks. I have no idea there. Maybe they thought driving 4 piles a lot deeper than they could have dug with a cofferdam? Then bolt on pre-fab support to cast the pylon on? I'll wait for structural guys to comment on it, seems they have 4 piles going down and supporting a steel separation plate to hold up the pylon and can't think of a reason off the top of my head. I'd imagine they had a dam around it during construction, just needed a way to secure the pylon to the bedrock? Per an interview with one of the original guys who helped dig the holes for the supports posted way earlier in the thread, they used coffer dams. But how deep were the coffer dams? The depth of silt/sand/dirt deposited in the river is likely 100 ft above bedrock, so the cofferdam was likely down to maybe 20 ft below the current channel, and from there they drove 150' or longer piles down to the bedrock, which I'm interpreting as the 4 pedestal the rest is mounted on. I don't think they could have mounted/cast the pylon without a coffer dam, and I don't think they'd have dug out all the dirt and silt continuing to make the dam deeper and deeper trying to find bedrock. I am guessing it was a combination, same as the Skyway Bridge in FL where they put cofferdams in to get solid area to drive piles deep for the dolphins on either side, not the total death of structural supports. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 7:51:53 PM EDT
[#33]
They're saying that the main shipping channel will be open by the end of May. I just don't know if I see that happening.
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USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 7:58:56 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -SkyRaider-: With damages in the billions, this has to be standard procedure. I'm sure it kicks in much lower than that, even without political pressure. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Originally Posted By Chokey:
FEDERAL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION OPENED INTO BALTIMORE BRIDGE CRASH The FBI has opened a criminal investigation focusing on the massive container ship that brought down the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore last month — a probe that will look at least in part at whether the crew left the port knowing the vessel had serious systems problems, according to two U.S. officials familiar with the matter. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/04/15/balitmore-key-bridge-criminal-investigation/ With damages in the billions, this has to be standard procedure. I'm sure it kicks in much lower than that, even without political pressure. When I want to get down the bottom of a complex maritime investigation, the FBI is defiantly at the top of my list. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:55:12 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: When I want to get down the bottom of a complex maritime investigation, the FBI is defiantly at the top of my list. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Originally Posted By Chokey:
FEDERAL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION OPENED INTO BALTIMORE BRIDGE CRASH The FBI has opened a criminal investigation focusing on the massive container ship that brought down the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore last month — a probe that will look at least in part at whether the crew left the port knowing the vessel had serious systems problems, according to two U.S. officials familiar with the matter. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/04/15/balitmore-key-bridge-criminal-investigation/ With damages in the billions, this has to be standard procedure. I'm sure it kicks in much lower than that, even without political pressure. When I want to get down the bottom of a complex maritime investigation, the FBI is defiantly at the top of my list. The FiBs can be very recalcitrant. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 4:00:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: brass]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -SkyRaider-: They're saying that the main shipping channel will be open by the end of May. I just don't know if I see that happening. I think once the investigators get done inspecting, measuring, photographing, scanning, touching, and feeling every square inch of the Dali and cargo along with the bridge, it will go much faster. The cranes are all there now, they just need to be given permission to start moving crap. Sort of like a car wreck. Cops take half an hour or more to show up and document everything. Once they're done the tow trucks have the road open in minutes. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 9:01:44 PM EDT
[#37]
 Behind-the-scenes look at the Unified Command Center of Key Bridge collapse |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 5:10:00 PM EDT
[#38]
 Huge floating crane swings into action to clear Baltimore bridge debris |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 5:19:23 PM EDT
[#39]
Construction truck recovered
 Construction Truck, Bridge Truss Recovered Collapse Site |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 5:51:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
FEDERAL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION OPENED INTO BALTIMORE BRIDGE CRASH The FBI has opened a criminal investigation focusing on the massive container ship that brought down the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore last month — a probe that will look at least in part at whether the crew left the port knowing the vessel had serious systems problems, according to two U.S. officials familiar with the matter. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/04/15/balitmore-key-bridge-criminal-investigation/ The first goal will be to tie it to Trump, if that fails, tie it to a MAGA supporter. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 5:54:51 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: Construction truck recovered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbQI3_BPxPIAin't that some shit. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 6:21:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Who_Me: Ain't that some shit. Change the oil and put it back in service. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 1:16:25 AM EDT
[#43]
 Why Is FBI Jamming Signals? Baltimore Key Bridge Collapse Update |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 9:16:21 PM EDT
[#44]
It looks like they have most of the containers that have been slated for removal off the Dali.
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Posted: 4/20/2024 9:21:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TurkeyLeg: Weeks has a crane there doing the container offload. I dont know if its Weeks guys running it (Im pretty sure it is) because I havent talked to any of them. Its pretty slow going right now, they havent moved too many containers yet. The containers are not subject to open salvage, for a few reasons. Also, keep in mind that the vessel is still manned and operational. Technically speaking, they could light off and extract themselves. It wouldnt do them much good, but the main engine never suffered a significant casualty. well and everyone there is on government contract which im sure prevents salvage. |
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Posted: 4/22/2024 10:31:55 PM EDT
[#46]
 Big Help Here To Salvage Key Collapsed Bridge Debris Baltimore |
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Posted: 4/22/2024 11:11:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryThat is a big-assed grapple. |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 4/23/2024 6:33:29 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Change the oil and put it back in service. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Originally Posted By Who_Me: Ain't that some shit. Change the oil and put it back in service. I'm sure that's what Brawner is planning to do. |
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Posted: 4/23/2024 10:27:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: realwar]
[#49]
Key Bridge Collapse Channel CLEARED Limited Access 560-Ton Truss
 Key Bridge Collapse Channel CLEARED Limited Access 560-Ton Truss On patrol next to the Dali and the Baltimore bridge wreckage  On patrol next to the Dali and the Baltimore bridge wreckage. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 8:43:40 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryWhile his speculation is intriguing, once again his musings are largely unsupported by evidence. How does he know that it is an FBI truck? Pure speculation. How does he know that it is jamming radio frequencies - and if so, which radio frequencies and why? Jamming drone control channels? Pure speculation. And so on. Sure - the increasingly strong anti-drone wording is a clue that drone activity is a concern to the feds - but it is quite a leap to go from that to imputing that jamming of drone control frequencies must be occurring, and that it is being conducted by that 'FBI truck". Could (couldn't) that truck be monitoring and recording the radio spectrum in the vicinity of the disaster site? Or, could that truck be providing a supplemental cell-site in support of the many on-site workers? Or, fill-in-the-blanks here with your own speculation. Yeah, I get it - it makes for entertaining video and generates clicks and views - but it does not so much in the 'enlightenment' category. I haven't kept up with drone controller technology, but presumably some of them can navigate preprogrammed flight paths via IMU, with or without GPS assistance or validation - and so jamming as a countermeasure would seem to offer an incomplete remedy (and could possibly also have dangerous side effects) - but then perhaps it could be effective in some circumstances. Anybody with a wideband directional antenna and a spectrum analyzer care to visit the area and attempt to gather some actual evidence? |
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