What sort of specialist do you go to for this kind of thing? I brought it up to my doc a couple months ago and he just gave me one of these.

I had my shit tested out a couple of years ago. It was at a fertility clinic. They said I was low in test and high in estrogen. They gave me a script to decrease the estrogen so we could make a baby. It worked and while I was on it, I had a noticable decrease in body fat and increase in muscle. I was working out pretty hard. Anyway, I really want to check into this again. I work out often and try to watch my diet but I really think the key for me is in this hormone stuff.

Age Management Metabolic Medicine - here's a link to my Doc for reference:

Google Age Managment Medicine to find a specialist in your area

Thanks

For those of you that are on the fence about male HRT - it increases your libido to the point where you'll chase cars down the street just because their tailpipes look good - no Viagra needed.  

WTF



 

He has youth on his side - for now.  In a few years, his ability to shed fat will creep up on him.  His arms and legs will thin, but the adipose tissue, or brown fat will go to his midsection.  He'll notice this in the mirror, but won't be able to counteract it despite his best efforts in the gym.  He'll diet, but his energy will fade, and soon enough, he'll be uninterested in Mrs DoberDude(ette) and she'll secretly mock him for his shortcomings as a male.  He'll then spend is days moving from chair to chair due to lack of energy.  Then, if he's lucky enought to remember, he'll check the archives and find this thread, and go & see a AMM doctor.  Mark my words.

tag

I have read all of this.  Some folks have no understanding at all, however the post I quoted touches on a huge issue for many people and a variety of health issues, and they have no idea.  Natural foods can be a big help for a lot of health issues.   Fake food is poison.  eat real food..  in short, don't eat food that has ingredients that did not exist 100 years ago.  my girlfriend has a long histyory of bad health, after lots of Rx the thing that is helping her is all natural food.

I struggle with testosterone levels following a back injury.  Sucks bad but I ahve been chicken to do more then the overthe counter stuff, which is of some help... I'll keep an eye on your progress

I've been giving myself Testosterone Cypionate Injections for over two years and have plenty left down low. When you give yourself the injection it needs to be fast penatration so it does not hurt. If you inject fast you'll only know it went in by sight.

It's called andropause. The wimins get menopause. Mother Nature's through with promoting your genes.

I don't think this is andropause since I'm only 38.  Andropause is usually late 40's -50's.  They think this is from concussions I received while I was playing football that may have damaged my pituitary.


I am wondering if it might have something to do with

1) I work in a dark windowless office, so I literally only see light an hour a day or so

or

2) i frequently have a laptop in my lap,  last night I stood up and my balls were hot. I may be cooking the poor guys.

either way what Gr8Wyt talked about a couple posts up is EXACTLY right.  Muscle mass fading,  ability to get into shape gone. I've been running a few times a week for months. usually after two weeks I can go 4 miles. I'm stuck at mile and a half now. cannot run farther without almost dying it feels like

he nailed it.  I am investigating the gel and have an appointment to try the shot as well to see how bad it hurts.  I've heard it's painful.

I know somebody who did the juice, they usually went for the leg muscle injection.  Not painful at all apparently as they use a tiny needle.  Personally I would never do the gel.

But you should try gonadotropin first.  See if you can kick those BBs into high gear.

Do not try DHEA or any of the herbal shit, it's complete bullshit.  See a real endocrinologist and get the shit taken care of right.

Any updates?

I thought I'd revive this thread since I just got my labs back and my T level was 150.  I've been a walking clinical case of Low T symptoms.  Fatigue, decreased libido, anemia, sleep problems.  I thought the only symptom I wasn't showing was increased irratibility.  My wife corrected me on that assumption.

Picked up androgel today.  I'll start it tomorrow and let you guys know how it progresses.  I thought there might be a few other thread lurkers experiencing the same things I was and might benefit from the info.

Take care guys,

Cavu

I have been going through a series of medical testing that started out with the initial low hormone problem.  I have got a couple other issues that are tangential to the hormone issue such as these white spots in my brain caused my migraines,  and I have also been having pretty bad headaches lately.

anyway,  I got the androgel,  but haven't taken it yet.  I was talking to the endocrinologist and they were pretty adamant that I should just go on the gel and forget about it. But again, I am very resistant to being on this stuff for life since I think my T problem is caused by stress and lifestyle. Things I can change.

I had been taking Novarel HCG  to try and stimulate my own production. I was on 1/2 CC every two days but that wasn't working.  My initial T level was 147.  After two months of the Novarel I had dropped to under 100.   The endocrinologist checked with their pharmacist and they said that was very low level of novarel, especially for someone my size. So they upped the dosage from .5 CC every other day to 1.5 CC every three days,  so it's a higher dose.

that's my last ditch effort to get my own junk working again. I have an appointment scheduled in three weeks to get tested again and if it's not higher, I will be getting first the shot to see how hard that is,  and then if the shot hurts too bad I will go on the gel.

My only problem with the gel is, I wore it for three days and the wife treats me like a pariah if I have it on. She's quizzing me if I have it on, where it is,  how much etc. Then she is skittish about touching me.  She is scared she'll grow a 'stach if it gets on her.  

I am still hopeful my nads will come off vacation but losing hope fast. I will probably be on gel or shots within a couple weeks.  

I appreciate all the PMs I've gotten from people with advice. It's helping a lot to scope out what the best path is. And a couple of you have eased my fears about what it'll be like if/when I do finally cave and go on the HRT.  I appreciate it.

Tag for later

Test e FTW.

Just got my quarterly labs back and my T was 850.  2 pumps of Androgel on each upper arm per night.





ETA: Also have your blood work checked for Vitamin D deficiency.  Docs here had a conference and found it was a REGIONAL deficiency.  Mine was 25, with 50 - 80 being an optimal range.  Lack of Vitamin D presents almost exactly the same as low test.  





 

can you elaborate on this?

Test Enanthanate - long (relatively) lasting Testosterone esther.  Weekly or so.  Closest to natural you're going to get.

Gel is for people afraid of needles.

Winner. Steady test levels are key.

Test enanthate is the way to go, other esters like cyp are decent as well. See if you can get some test suspension from your doc, if you don't mind 2x daily injections.

I'm getting mine tested soon.  I've been scared of the "roid rage" that I've seen with some people on testosterone injections...  don't know if any of ya'll have experienced that?  i don't want to start trying to kick everyones ass that i see!

No.

Low testosterone increases risk of early death, cardiovascular disease and prostate cancer

I'm another Androgel user. I originally started on it to overcome the symptoms of depression that were creeping into my life. My doctor said before he prescribed some anti-depressant, he wanted to test for low testosrerone. Once the results came back, he told me how low my testosterone was and prescribed Androgel. After using it now for a couple of years, I asked about getting shots. He told me the reason more doctors prescribe the gel instead of shots is because it's more effective over time. The shot will raise your testosterone to higher levels in the beginning, but then trails off during the month, whereas the gel will keep it at a consistently higher level all the time. Bottom line is it's more effective.

The one thing I've really been interetsed in is Human Growth Hormone. Some of you may have seen the ads of an overweight, middle aged guy in a before picture, who then went to being ripped and well defined in the after shot. The company that promotes it is Cenegenics. I used to be heavily into weightlifting and have seen the results of what some drugs can do, but as I've aged have become more interested in HGH for it's value for someone getting older. I don't belive the OP's age is at that point yet (38, correct?), but being in my 50's, it's very attractive to me. I miss weightlifting and regular training, largely brought about my some serious life changing events, and would love to begin a regimen of this stuff, but it's not feasible at this point so for now it's Androgel all the way. The drawback to me is the cost. I really can't justify a few thousand a year for the program, but would do it in a heartbeat if I could.

Crashburnrepeat,

I use androgel on and off during the year. I really should be on it 100% of the time, however, as I mentioned, I do not do well with it during the summer time hot weather. This is likely due to other health problems I have.

I work out regularly and never had any sort of major trauma to my nads. However, it got to the point that my workouts were useless. I just came away tired and weak. While my friends maintained fitness, I declined into a weak old man form.

I spent time with my endo trying to get testosterone levels up. Nothing worked. Diet, leg workouts, supplements, thyroid meds, nothing worked. My levels continued to drop during every test ending up in the 120 range. I finally gave in and used the gel. Right away, I noticed an improvement.

It's hard to describe the results, but I'll give it a try.

It felt "smooth".  I noticed an improvement to the way I used to feel in about 2 hours. I stopped falling asleep after dinner. Muscle improved somewhat, as does endurance. Sex drive is back to normal, but the best thing of all is that I feel "normal". I get more done, there is no question on that point. Nor am I constantly hungry, looking for a "food fix".

Back to that "normal" thing. When I come off the gel, I start to get foggy (takes a couple of months). Nothing seems to matter to me. I simply don't care about much. Don't care about my job, my well being, my hobbies, nothing. When I am back on the gel, the world seems much more clear. I care about my job, my wife, my hobbies, my car, in short, everything I hold dear. That passion is important to me.

After using the gel for an extended period and then stopping, I get ultra horny for about a month. That part is ultra fun. My nads get a touch bigger and things are good for that month. After that, it's back to an abnormal life.

Bottom line, I prefer being on Androgel, by a large margin. Life becomes "real" and I feel normal, not moody or angry.

I hope you find what works for you. Again, proper management will prevent any transference to your wife. It's not hard to manage.

Franklin

P.S. Testim is made by the same company. I don't like it as much, it's perfumed. Otherwise, it works as well.

Self inject once or twice a week with test e.  I suppose 2x / week is probably more for bodybuilders... anyway this will support consistent test levels.   I agree if the injections were only once a month it would be a problem... but that would just be an issue for guys not willing to do it themselves at home and who were otherwise limited wrt office visits.

I neglected to mention that bone density is reduced with low T.

I broke my arm in 7 places during a bike race. The doc did mention that my low T was likely a contributing factor. In fact, he hinted at the fact that it might not have broken at all if I had been in better shape and had normal bone density.

But the worst part. It won't heal (8 months now). I just started using Androgel again. BTW, testosterone has now been proven to assist bone healing.

Depends.

If your levels are low, then taking testosterone supplements will help solve the problem.

If your levels are normal, then taking testosterone supplements can have serious side effects.

crashburnrepeat

Not a doctor by any means but I'll sahre what I know
First off the Range for testosterone is Huge, and some doctors won't do a damn thing for you even if you're on the low end
However you're numbers are really low

First you need to find a Good Doctor ( very difficult ) to screen your blood for alot of things
Thyroid - Liver Function - Vit D - Serum Total Testosterone, Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) and Free Testosterone -Serum Luteinising Hormone (LH)-Estrogen Adrenals
Inquire whether the Doctor does HRT - Hormone Replacement Therapy
I've seen Endocrinologists who wouldn't treat for it

Bio-Identical Hormone replacement  - usually a cream made up by a Compound Pharmacist ( insurance will not cover  cost is probably $30-40 monthly)
This cream will bypass the liver ( unlike other treatments and androgel )
The cream usually works better is you split the dose - once in the morning - again in the afternoon early evening
If you use a Big Dose in the AM you'll feel great - only to crash in the afternoon

Buccal Tablets -I'm told they work better than the cream but Do Not bypass the Liver
Intramuscular Injections -Do Not bypass Liver

Diet- Read up  Polyunsaturated Fats  and Trans Fats are NOT GOOD
A combination of Olive Oil and Saturated Fats is best for raising Testosterone

Alcohol should be avoided

Carlson makes a Vitamin D ( Solar D Gems ) supplement tha's 4,000 IU and they're small softgels

I've only touched on it, I'm gonna give you advice that I don't follow  READ Educate Yourself  Buy A Notebook

I started on the shots.  Only had one so far.  I feel a ton better, it started within a couple hours of the shot. More energy less chronic pain.  I can work more hours, my muscles aren't so tight all the time.  A huge win for me so far.   This morning I woke up with morning wood so hard it hurt.   Shots are scheduled for every 3 weeks, been 8 days so far.

When I was going through chemo therapy, my T levels tanked, I was prescribed androgel, it seemed to help, however, I can't be sure as I was on so many drugs related to the side effects of the chemo that after awhile I didn't know what normal was....... I did stop the andro after a year, and I think I need it again... I seem to have all the symptoms of low testosterone........going for tests in June.......

might be a blessing in disguise in relation to prostate problems. Might even keep your hair if you still have any. I would though take some time off to recoup. Sleep deprivation can cause problems in all areas. Now understand I'm no doctor but I'm just drawing conclusions from what is said, experience with 4 brothers and medical studies that reach the news.I would though take some time off with doctors excuse.

Hate to see BS info getting spread to a bunch of desperate men.  From the same WebMD source:

http://www.webmd.com/video/prostate-cancer-treatment-implant

Obviously testosterone feeds prostate cancer cells.  Absense of testosterone starves prostate cancer cells.

See your endocrinologist and/or urologist.

ANY doc prescribing test worth his salt will check your prostate AND PSA via blood work quarterly.





 

Legit question AGW.  MOST of the inquisitive men in this thread that have PM'd me about andropause are in their 40's and training.  Before I started HRT I hired a personal trainer who just obliterated me for 6 months, with very minimal results.  I finally did the blood draw and was around 150 total test.  As we age, SOMETIMES the only solution is HRT despite our best efforts.  HOWEVER, after the HRT begins one would be foolish to NOT get back in the gym and enjoy gains like he was 25 again.




 

Low levels of testosterone have been found in recent studies to be a possible cause of prostate cancer.

LA Times article

ETA As someone who has recently been diagnosed with Pca, I can assure you that we cannot shut our minds to the possibility that what the medical establishment knows may not be completely right.

Age Management and Metabolic Medicine Doctors ARE MD's.  They are much more forward thinking than your old MD, and even your endocrinologist.  They will by and large disagree with your AMM Doc on virtually everything, and at the same time, prescribe your wife HRT at the drop of a hat.  I personally think this is a huge medical double standard and an injustice to men in general.  The key is in the fact that your AMM doc will draw your blood quarterly vs annually like your MD, to see what the effects of his interventions are, and fine tune them.  Your PSA is one of the areas he wll pay very close attention to.

 

Hostility was listed as a potential side effect.  That didn't bother me as much as GYNECOMASTIA!  I think I'd become even more hostile if I get big BOOBS!!

I guess it depends on the severity of the symptoms.  I can tell you that I am so fatigued that it sometimes is a struggle just to get through the day.  I don't think going to the gym would be very effective at the moment.  While excercise, proper diet, adequate sleep, etc.. are all important, sometimes those just aren't enough.  

ETA: Darn Arfcom.....so much for my adequate sleep tonight.

Goodnight fellas.

2 chicks at the same time, every night. Tell your wife it's doc's orders, she'll understand....does she have a sister?

My dad's got the whole low testosterone thing goin' on. He gets a testosterone shot every few weeks. Right after he gets it, he's fired up and ready to get into a fight at the drop of a pin. Then for a little bit of time he's okay, then when the levels start getting low he's an argumentative bitch.

Both me and my mom think that he should get the patch(it's more even) but that would be something he'd have to put on every day and he said that's too much of a hassle.

Dude, 160 isn't as low as it could be. I am going for an MRI tomorrow as I probably have cushings disease (a tumor on the pituatary gland). My testosterone came back 45. FORTY FUCKING FIVE!!!

No wonder I've felt like shit for a long time, been gaining weight, losing strength and had the sex drive of neutered monk. My ACTH level came back at 478, which is quote "off the charts". Today I'm doing a 24hour urine collection to verify cortisol level output in my urine. Apparently my body has been producing cortisol like crazy so that's been causing all the problems. I've gained something like 50lbs over the past year with no significant changes in diet or activity plus gynocomastia development that puts me somewhere in the 52 A range for bras.

Honestly do whatever it takes to get your levels up before you start feeling like shit and can't do anything but sleep and feel bad. It sucks having to use a gel forever, but it sucks worse to feel like this. My next step is probably neurosurgery through my nose to remove whatever tumor they find tomorrow plus hormone replacement until my pituatary heals and resumes normal function, but even then I could have some long term hormone therapy.

Good luck, and do what you need to.

Daniel

not ignored man,  I too think this is the best way to stimulate the natural production of T. However in this case the working out is actually what alerted me to the problem. As I'm working out, no matter how hard,  I am quickly declining in stamina, muscle mass etc.

when I first realized something was wrong,  I was near 150.  I'm now under 100 T.  All while trying to run,  but I'm unable to go more than about 1.5 m and about 15-20 min give or take.

that's how I knew something was up.  

Wasn't there some truck commercial about this?

I'm rapidly approaching that too. I'm a little over 60 now.  I am just finishing the last of the Novarel to try and jumpstart the boys on my own but it's clearly not working.  so I'm going to try shots and see how bad they are and then if they hurt real bad will use the gel.

yes, i'm a pansy about needles.  so what?

Any updates folks?   I just had my 3rd shot.  I am happy with the results.  some nad shrinkage,, surprising when first noticed, but not a big deal.  I feel much better and knock the boots frequently.   When doing it it is mega hard and wants to go,go,go!  But the big advantage is I can do a days work in one day instead of three.

I believe you are mistaken.  Steroid users cycle their juice, even the body builders.

Cycle dosages maybe - those boys wouldn't be able to get out of bed without some type of test supplementation after the monster doses of drugs they use for contest prep.



BTW - make sure you keep your androgel pumps clean.  I had some gel dry up in the end of the pump (like silicone) and as I looked to my upper arm and depressed the pump, a stream of androgel shot into my right eye.  It was like napalm!!!  Took 2 days for the whites of my eye to be white again!



 

I have milder symptoms than the OP.  Sadly, it's a side effect of some medication my doc has me on for my easily irritable stomach

"So there I was....a huge load of male hormone in my eye...."