Originally Posted By K1rodeoboater: <place holder> My belt, suspenders (settled for Y's ), buttpack, and canteens should be here later this week.  I've already got my M16 mag pouches...way more than I need....anyone need some???

I have only ever used the Y type suspenders and have never found them to be uncomfortable, including a 20 road march in AIT, but I was only 19 years old then. I may have to get a set of the H suspenders to try.

easy mods I've made to my ALICE pack

(7x) 1'' FASTEX Buckles
(2x) 1'' Split Bar Ladderloc
(3x) Cordloc

I got the buckles and ladderloc from SupplyCaptain.com, while 2 of the 3 cordloc came from a old ACU trousers.

I first put the 3 buckles on the outer pockets a 2 on the straps that keep the top flap in place...I've also put ladderlocs on those straps but I've seen people using web dominators.

Then I've put 2 cordlocs on the 2 smaller outer pockets.

Finally I've put a cordlock on the main compartment and a buckles on the inner radio pocket.







I've put a buckle also on the cardo tie down starp



Now I only need a Super Belt ans Straps from TT

I wore traditional LBE and an ALICE for years.  It is doable if your stuff is adjusted correctly. The Alice gear needs to be a bit lower than some of y'all might imagine, wasn't much of a problem for me because of my torso length.  Shorter guys had issues. Now, to be truthful, the waste belt on the the ruck was frequently ignored.  I would typically remove the belt from the pad and tape the "wings" back.  This wasn't because the strap was unusable but because we had to be able to shuck the pack quickly.  If you are wearing a pack longer than an ALICE it would be imposible.

Everything has its issues... subloads as you mention have no place in any situation where you might want to wear a pack.

Originally Posted By iNuhBaDNayburhood: K1rodeoboater, you're gonna DEFINITELY want to modify the straps on your Y-harness to make it more stable & comfortable.

thanks for the heads up on that...Any examples or ideas?  I'm half thinking about trying to make my own H harness this summer.  The rig is just for shits and giggles anyways, might use it if I take that carbine class this summer...if I can afford it

btw shoot me an IM if you need any mag pouches...I've got more than I need and I'd rather see them go to a good home than ebay

Originally Posted By SC-Texas: That canteen cup was the best part of my LBE.  I used to cook the hell out of some Ramen noodles when I was in the army.

Damn dude!  Bringing back memories.  Ramen noodles and a broken up pork patty in a canteen cup.  That's good eatin.

Since we seem to talking about ALICE packs here, I can tell you that the super straps and belt from tactical tailor are the shiznit for an ALICE pack upgrade.




The comfort level is amazing!  Even with the pack fully loaded it seems to float on your back with no hot spots. Best 60 bucks I've spent on my gear in a long time.

Well I just got my ALICE gear...hopefully I can get pics up later today or tonight.

You guys are a bit bigger than me for sure....I barely was just able to fit my buttpack, 2 canteens, and 2 M16 mag pouches with just  tiny bit of room left....damn me an my 32" waist.  I might be able to squeeze in another 2 mag pouches, I need to cut off the grenade pockets on the side anyways.  The belt is supposed to be above your hips, much like a pack correct?  Maybe I have it a bit to high.  Though I can tell why people dislike the Y suspenders....I didn't really even have a load on mine and I could already tell they're uncomfortable.

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Here's a pic of my modified LBE.  This is a secondary rig for me now.



I'm tall enough where the Y susenders work well for me.  
Two mag pouches with the grenade carriers removed
Two M56 (older style) pouches for ancillary supplies BOK, survival signaling first aid etc
Two compass pouches which hold a pressure dressing each
Two canteens one with cup and stove... the canteens are dummy corded and I have water P tabs in the pouches

the ALICE clips are all removed and replaced with heavy duty zip ties

Originally Posted By Currahee: Here's a pic of my modified LBE.  This is a secondary rig for me now. img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/currahee/permanent/gear4.jpg I'm tall enough where the Y susenders work well for me.   Two mag pouches with the grenade carriers removed Two M56 (older style) pouches for ancillary supplies BOK, survival signaling first aid etc Two compass pouches which hold a pressure dressing each Two canteens one with cup and stove... the canteens are dummy corded and I have water P tabs in the pouches the ALICE clips are all removed and replaced with heavy duty zip ties

Thanks for the tips and the link to your site on your pic, looks like a cool site

Originally Posted By colklink: Thanks for the tips and the link to your site on your pic, looks like a cool site

No problem, and take a look around, it's brand new and I'd like input.

Originally Posted By Currahee: Originally Posted By colklink: Thanks for the tips and the link to your site on your pic, looks like a cool site No problem, and take a look around, it's brand new and I'd like input.

pretty good sight...FWIW the color scheme with the background is kinda hard on my eyes.  Tiger stripe is cool but it's hard to read the text even in the green body with it around.  It distracts me from the text.

I agree with most of the things you have on there, I especially like how you say that there are a lot of other things that must be done in addition to X Y and Z.  I also especially liked what you said about quality range time is judged by exactly that quality and not quantity.    

I just found an old set of Y suspenders and a istol belt.

Well I just got a LBV on ebay for $15 shipped......guess I will get to try both now .

with my 32in waist I can't really fit as much onto my pistol belt as some of you guys have .  The damn buttpack is nearly as wide as my back, add in the canteens and it's on the edge of my hips.

BTT

    I've also always been confused about how to wear  LBE web-gear (suspenders, belt, but-pack, mag pouches, etc) while wearing a large ALICE pack at the same time.  
    I've never been the military, but I bought this ALICE equipment about 25 years ago (teenage years) for camping and hiking.  Now I would like to upgrade my gear with the quick release buckles etc.  
    I have an M4 coming soon, and feel as though I need to get my web-gear ready.  I guess I'd use my ALICE pack as a bug-out-bag.  Could one of you helpful guys here post a pic (or a few different angles) of yourself wearing your web-gear and ALICE pack at the same time so I could see how it's done?  
    This thread has me excited about scrounging up my old gear and dusting it off to upgrade it.  Thanks guys...      

anyone use the BHI set up?


www.optactical.com/stlbeha.html

here is my "alice"  mix and match rig lol.

anyway its a mesh enhanced LBV.

the 2nd pic show s a BHI lrrp style pack attached(empty as its not being used right now) mostly use that for  when its cold to carry fluffy/bulky junk like fleece,small bags or etxra stay warm  fluff.


with lrrp


Im water heavy as you can see. 1 reason is balance out the load, 2nd well its fla and hotter than shit down here.

my other rig is better suited for down here bing all mesh FLC style vest without the heavy alice,, other is  chest rig..again great for the heat, and lighter,faster etc. BUT sucks ass if  you gotta stay outside over night!

alice is just heavy as hell, but from what ive found if your doing some run and gun junk its not needed..if your doing outdoor style crap, where you need extra crap, alice works, i havent found any rig that i can fit the same amount of crap in and be comfy except- this one-


izzy r1 vest, but hotter than fuck in the heat due to its wrap around vest style...

I like all the new plastic quick-clips hardware on the pics of the large alice pack, in place of the metal hardware.  I was looking at my alice pack earlier today and noticed that the metal hardware is sewn into the pack by the nylon straps.  I'm assuming that you ripped the stitches to remove the old hardware and install the new plastic hardware, then re-stitched the nylon webbing.
I also found my old "Y" web suspenders and web belt.  I started with trying to get rid of the rust on the metal hardware.  Not much luck yet.  Then I got rid of the metal clips on the 4 ends of the suspenders and used paracord to fasten the front 2 straps to the belt.  I attatched my canvas but-pack with paracord (got rid of metal clips) to the belt, then again used paracord to tie the but-pack (2 grommets on top of but-pack) to the 2 rear straps of the suspenders.  I like it already, seems quieter and like it flows more naturally (know what I mean? Seems more "organic").  Now I need to take a trip to the surplus store and pick up some magazine pouches, maybe something for a dump pouch.  
Oh yeah, I also found my M9 bayonet whith the web-belt attatchment clip, so I put that on my belt.  My suspenders and belt are black, the but-pack is green canvas.  The M9 is the 1st gen and has the green plastic handle and sheath.  This is all kinda' fun to start making my web-rig.  I'd rather spend money on ammo than brand-new web-gear.

Originally Posted By raf:  Some rare bits and pieces are already fetching collector's prices.

What is rare and considdered collectible?

Here's my belt kit:



I like it a lot.  I took the back half of the suspenders from an LBV 88 (you can also see this with some of the characters such as Dan Busch and Randy Shughart in the movie Black Hawk Down).  These are far superior to the Y-Harness I had.  I didn't care for the front "vest" portion of the LBV 88 because this is for M14 magazines.  I'll be changing things around a little bit once I get my Camelbak.  I actually like the ALICE clips so I have them on all of the magazine pouches.  I have all the pouches zip tied to the belt just in case though.

height=8

Originally Posted By iNuhBaDNayburhood: Perhaps it would be beneficial if someone were to post a few good 'How To Mod __Insert ITEM Here__ ALICE Gear' threads... There are some good tricks to modifying ALICE gear for pretty cheap.  Such as properly adjusting your H/Y Suspenders, Rolling up the excess, taping them off and binding them down good. Or the countless 'alternative' attachment methods? Or fitting a pack OVER the LBE/LBV straps and pistol belt? The pack w/ waistband issue is the primary reason why I decided to switch over from ALICE to a chest rig...  Ergonomics were far superior when wearing a pack and helps move your center of gravity (with a pack on) forward to 're-center' it.  You can better turn while moving and more comfortably carry your loads. However, the downfall is you can't have much of anything on your waist belt, and you will likely need drop-leg loadouts. to carry some lightweight items. Edited to add:  One of the other reasons why I switched away from ALICE was because, after paying for materials for 'Upgrades' (buckles, straps, etc.), the ALICE gear was costing just about as much as some brand new chest rigs or newer vest systems... I like the options ALICE provides for backup/secondary rigs though!

There are a lot of little tricks to Alice gear, I could write you a book on them. I have been using the stuff since the 80's and swear by it. The stuff can be set up in a million different combinations it all depends on your body type and what makes you comfortable as far as load carrying goes. I personally like to keep my pistol belt loose. I don't wear my M16 ammo pouches up front like most people do but off to the sides. That way when I go to ground I don't land on my ammo and hurt myself. I also (since the invention of the camelbak) don't use canteens anymore. I use a camelbak hooked into the rear of my suspenders. The only thing I have on the back of my belt is my butt pack. And its one of the new design thats more like a fanny pack with its own strap and all. So its pretty versatile. It carries rations, E&E stuff and other miscellaneous gear. Its always a work in progress. Has been for years. Something new comes out I try it. If I like it, it stays, if not, it goes.
As far as adjusting the harness, again its a personal choice. I like mine low on my hips. I found that on a long hike its nice to open that web belt up and let the web belt hang from your shoulders. When you make any adjustments in the straps always roll up the extra web material and tape it with either electrical or duct tape. Then tape all of the metal hooks so they don't rattle. After you tape everything down load your belt, put it on and jump up and down. If it makes noise, figure out where the noise is coming from and fix it. You can't make any noise when you're behind enemy lines running from the bad guys. Another good idea is to take all the metal hooks off and replace them with 550 cord to hook your suspenders to your web belt. You can also use zip ties to replace the alice clips on your pouches. Saves weight and makes no noise.
When you put your magazines in the pouches, put duct tape on the bottom of each mag and a piece of 55 cord inserted in the tape (to make getting the magazine out of the pouch easier) and to reduce the noise of the magazines from rattling against each other. Another thing to save space on your belt (if you have a small waist) is to cut off the grenade loops on the magazine pouches. That way you can out them closer together on your belt.
With the advent of GPS most people don't use maps and compases anymore but being from the old school I still do. I use a military lensatic compass with tritium inserts. Other compasses use a luminous paint that doesn't really glow in the dark like the tritium. Maps are easy to get but make sure you get the ones that show the terrain features. They're more detailed and show water sources as well as hills and valleys, etc. Don't get me wrong I want to get a GPS one day. I like them. I used one of the first ones in Desert Storm and it was really great. But no matter which one you use make sure you use a "dummy cord". (Tie a piece of 550 cord to it and the other end to your web gear, it'll keep you from loosing it.) I dummy cord anything that I think I might lose easily. Hell you use a sling on your rifle don't you?
There are other threads that talk about what to put in your ruck (BOB) or whatever you want to call it. But the same goes for your ruck that goes for your web gear. tie and tape everything down. then put it on and jump up and down. If it moves or makes noise figure out what it is thats making the noise and fix it. Again you don't want to be making any noise when you're trying to E&E (escape and evade) behind enemy lines. Noise discipline is extremely important in the woods. Its too easy to make noise and be heard in a quiet wooded environment. Make sure there is nothing to snag on a branch and make noise as you walk by a tree.
At night light discipline is the name of the game. white light and camp fires are out of the question. Look for a flash light with either a red or blue lens. Red is best for reading maps since you can't see water sources with a blue lens. But with a red lens its harder to take care of someone who is bleeding, can't see the blood with a red lens. Of course if its possible don't use a light if you don't have to. There are methods of seeing in the dark without the use of lights. For instance, don't look directly at an object to see it use your peripheral vision. It works best for seeing movement at night. Of course if you have the money, a good set of night vision goggles can't be beat. Even a set of PVS-5's (Generation 2 technology) or PVS-7's (even better) are great. I don't know much about the Russian made stuff, but have heard that some is good and some is junk. Anyway, hope this has helped somewhat. The old Ranger Handbook from the 80's still has some good info even though its 20+ years old. Good luck with your web gear. Go out and hike around with it and enjoy it. Make good use of it. It will last you for years to come and serve you well.

Interesting..to the top for later reading

that is the medic vest. is is almost like the ELCS spears lbv. ceptthe front panels are straight and not angled like the elcs spears set up. I'd like toget one so i could keep my lbv set up but go to molle for some modulairty with out going to a full blown chest rig( like the lbv set up)

Up.

The first two pics are of my ALICE LBE I used while in the Tn state guard. Add ons/ mods include: Black hawk H-suspenders and butt pack; and 1-liter camel back. I used zip ties to attach the CBK.






The second set of images is a hybrid alice/molle pack I put together. It is probably the most bullet proof pack I have ever used. I currently have three assembled(mine and my two oldest sons who are in scouts). The only group of boys who are harder on things than GI's I will be building 1 more next week for my wife; once she saw how rugged these packs were she had to have one as well. I also have the additional parts saved away, so that when my youngest son is large enough; I'll put his together.







I like to call this hybrid the "ALLE Pack". My youngest son misunderstood and calls it the "alley cat" I have now nicknamed it the "Hell Cat"  We have taken it on numerous trips to the Smoky's and Appalacian trail; Cave trips; and back country big game hunts; It has performed flawlessly. Everyone who sees this pack is amazed at it's sturdiness; adaptability; bullet proof construction; and overall utility; At a bargain price to boot! It always draws curiousity seekers and comments.

The pack consists of alice frame; medium alice ruck; molle shoulder straps; molle moulded kidney belt; and molle sleep system carrier. NO MODIFICATIONS ARE NEEDED TO ASSEMBLE. Once assembled you have a medium capacity expedition pack; completely unitized(packed items won't shift); with top and bottom access. The pack has roughly 3500-4000 cubic inches of carrying capacity(3500 by dimensional calculations but closer to 4000 of actual capacity). Capacity can be expanded by either using a large ruck or adding molle sustainment pouches to one or both sides. That would potentially increase capacity up to 8000 cubic inches. The 5 packs that I own have cost me less than $250 combined. You have to shop around; but this pack can be easily assembled for less than $50.

We'll be taking them on a cave trip this weekend; so when I return next week I'll put together a "how to" thread on it's assembly.

those are pretty freakin cool

Good job Dad, Like to see the full set-up when you post.

I'm interested in this as well. How hard was it to do all the sewing on the pack? Did you do it yourself or pay someone else?



 

I don't have an ALICE pack infront of me but that is my guess as to how they did it.  If you have a sewing machine you want to use some HD thread, a new needle, and box stitch the part back together after you rip the stitches apart.  It's not to hard to do if you or someone you know knows how to sew, should only take you about 5-10min per piece to rip, replace, and restitch.

Enforcer, as I said in my IM to you THANK YOU again.  I'm gathering up the parts to build my own Hell Cat.  None of the packs on the market have really appealed to me at all.  They all cost to damn much, come in stupid colors like bright red, feel to flimsy, and don't give me enough space for my junk.  I really liked having a separate sleeping bag pocket in the backpacks my program rents out, but I hated how it was really more of an afterthought in the design of the pack.  I've also wanted to get an external frame pack for some reason...but all the ones I've seen out there just don't appeal to me.  Your Hell Cat design pretty much has everything I want in a pack at the moment.  

-Fits my budget at less then $100, possibly less then $50
-Has a dedicated sleeping bag carrier
-Can have pouched added onto the sides to increase storage capacity
-Rugged

It might not be the lightest but if it lasts then it's worth it to carry that extra weight.

WOOT...just ordered the parts for my Hell Cat, should have everything by the end of the week.  Just in time too because I'm gonna test it out on a trip on the 14th.  Fuck Valentines day, I'm going out backpacking alone.

Man you guys are putting the pressure on me! Just got back from cumberland caverns and took all three Hell cats. They worked admirably; I'll start working on my "how to" after the super bowl tonight. BTW; the packs aren't that heavy; They each weigh no more than my Dana K2. I'll try to get  an accurate weight in the next day or so. Here are a few pics of our trip with the packs in action.

This my oldest son pacing his gear



This my middle and youngest packing



This is an interesting pic....My youngest dose not have a frame. I have a unique way of enhancing a medium alice so that a child as young as 3yo can carry it comfortably. I'll save that for another how to



We had over 65 cubscouts go on this weekend trip. We were the first group out. The other scouts are shown wearing medium alice rucks that we bought in a group purchase along with there dads. We bought 35 packs all together.

[

My boys just before we left the cave.

Camelback makes something called the unbottle and stowaway, it's basically a camel back with a cordura cover over top of it.  The cover adds insulation to help keep water cool and they come with a hose insulator kit so the hose has a cover as does the mouthpiece.  They have 4 D rings on the cover to allow you to lash it onto a pack or in this case onto the frame.

OST.

Tag for pack idea

That Hellcat looks great.  I sent you an IM for some advice on it.  The one thing I liked about the Molle 2 ruck was the MSS carrier, but I hated the rest of the pack system.  I do like the ALICE pack, and find it works good for me.  The only problem with it is finding a good way to carry your sleep system., as I really like my MSS.

Would this work with aftermarket ALICE straps like the TT straps?  that would be the cat's ass.

FWIW guys....Enforcer wasn't kidding about the about $50 price.  I just quickly added up what I paid for my parts and it came to $64.99.  I know for a fact I could have gotten everything for $60 but I was impatient and wanted to have the ALICE frame on it's way ASAP so I paid the $5 extra for a buy it now from a vendor

Should have the setup ready to post sometime tomorrow evening. Took pics sunday night after the superbowl and took a few more yesterday; and have been reducing them so they will load a little faster.

I did alittle math today; the packs as configured appear to weigh in at just a little over 5 lbs ea. I used bathroom scales so that is FWIW. 3 of my packs I paid $35ea; 1 I paid $45 and the other was $65; for a total of $215(includes shipping). That worked out to an avg cost of $43 ea. That cost was spread out over 5 years. That last two were more recently put together.

Didn't get the IM......What do you mean by TT straps?  I'm at work tonight so I can't get my "how to" completed untill tomorrow. All I can say is that the sleep system straps in w/o any problems; I believe you will really like it. I hope I can get it completed all in one post.....anyone know the limit to the number of pics in one post?