User Panel
Another BoT! Thank goodness! I was starting to go into withdrawal
Great looking handloads BTW. |
|
NAW... people here don't tell the truth about their shooting accuracy. Who would have thunk it. As usual very informative THANKS |
|
|
good stuff (as usual)
(just to double-check) #6 was 3131 & not 3131A? |
|
Thanks for your work, O_P! I always look forward to your reports.
HH |
|
Doesn't look like 223 to me.... |
|
|
A group that I shot with my Accuracy International .308. No extra charge. |
|
|
The reason that SF uses the MK 262 is because it is more accurate than M855. In fact, I believe that it may be more accurate than M118.
|
|
Thanks, brother Old_Painless.
I tested XM193, American Eagle .223, and South African PMP .223 (all 55 grain). The PMP was the most consistent in terms of overall spread. The AE by Federal was the most accurate but had unexplainable fliers in any grouping of 5 shots or more. By far the least accurate was the XM193. It had very poor performance in terms of group sizes. All testing was done via benchrest in one afternoon at 100 yards with the same rifle (Armalite 20" HBAR and iron sights). I've got the score sheets around here somewhere, but IIRC, the PMP had 2.25" groupings, the AE had 3" groupings (which included the one flier each 5 shot group had). Without the fliers, the AE had 1.75" groups. The XM193 had 3.25" groups. All grouping totals are averages of four 5 shot groupings. I won't be buying any more XM193. |
|
Wolf ammo.
|
|
|
... Bears repeating, thank you once again for another informative post Old_Painless ... Did you develop the handloads? I'm surpised the 52 gr HPBT performed as well as the heavier bullets. Isn't your tack-driver a 1/9 twist ??? |
|
|
It is indeed a 1 in 9 barrel. However, as you can see, it shoots the 52 grainers just fine. Tman and I developed the loads over a long trial period. This one seems to work well. I am not particularly enamored with the heavy bullets in an AR. Some of them actually require single loading. I have no problem with those that like to shoot heavy bullets, but I just like to shoot the lighter bullets. I also tend to think that maybe Eugene knew what he was doing when he designed the weapon. |
||
|
The increased lethality is the icing on the cake. The big reason, that comes up quite often, is that the 77 grain ammo is more accurate. I heard a report of a 700 yard head shot the other day. No other ammo/rifle combination in even limited issue is capable of that performance. |
||
|
Let's try not to hijack this thread, okay guys. Start another one if you want to fight about long range shots. We were discussing the accuracy of military 5.56 Ball. |
||||
|
Using my extreme powers of deductive reasoning I'm going to assume he meant on a 5.56mm platform. Amazing... |
||||
|
Great write-up, Old Painless!
Would you agree that ALL those types of ammo you tested would be "minute of bad guy", so to speak? I really look forward to your BOT stuff. Keep it up! |
|
My statement remains that the most accurate rifle/ammunition combo commonly issued in the U.S. Military seems to be an SPR with MK 262 Mod 1.
M855 can shoot as poorly as 5 MOA before it is considered unserviceable. M193 was, supposedly, slightly more accurate, due to its simpler construction. |
|
Absolutely! They would all be plenty accurate for combat. I just grow weary of guys that say something like, "I shot my AR15 standing, with iron sights, shooting Ball ammo, and can shoot 1/2 inch groups all day long at 100 yards." They are liars.
Thanks. My small effort at adding something about real guns to the forum. |
||
|
OP,
Thanks for puttinng this together. I have argued for a long time that rack grade rifles and ammunition are not capable of great accuracy for a long time. |
|
As my good buddy brianksain says, "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?" DPMS sells them every day. |
|
|
Sure thing. As Gloftoe pointed out, "minute-of-badguy" is plenty good enough for social purposes. But when some guy tries to tell me he shoots 1/2 minute groups with a standard rifle and ball ammo, I don't believe it. I've done the research. |
|
|
OP: Any factory match ammo recommendations for me? I don't have any loading equipment yet, and all I've ever shot through my AR's is M193 ball. I'm kind of curious to see how much better myself and my rifle really are.
|
|
Thanks OP. I was kind of wondering about this in my range adventures.
Your target #6 results with Win Q3131 & iron sights is pretty much my experience. FWIW, when I reloaded with the FMJ, it shrinks groups down to about 1 1/2 - 2 inches, but that is the best I usually get (unless I just shoot a "lucky" three shot group and stop there). |
|
I've heard some really good things about Blackhills ammo. Can't speak from personal experience, as I've only shot a small amount of it. Maybe some others have some good recommendations. |
|
|
OH, shure it can shoot 1/2 groups at 100 yards! Did I ever tell you about the time I HALO-jumped out of the space shuttle into afganistan into a terrorist stronghold and............. Thanks for the Box-O-Truth O_P. I was afraid you went on sabbatacle with Lumpy. |
||
|
Just to clarify, all my groups were shot with the DPMS and the scope.
Good point. We all occasionally get a "lucky" 3 shot group. No problem bragging about them. But that isn't a fair assessment of the rifle and ammo. It doesn't matter what I can do "once in a while". All that matters is what the rifle and ammo can do each and every time, over and over again. |
||
|
From a statistical standpoint, I would have liked to see replicate groups of each ammo type. Of course, thats easy for me to say, not having to pay for the ammo . Otherwise, nice work.
|
|
Nope, I'm still here and kicking. But I sure do miss my old buddy Lumpy. I hope he isn't gone for long. |
||
|
Obviously, the more groups shot, the better the "average" group size estimation. But the groups shown are typically what I see when shooting this type of ammo. BTW, the Brown Truck of Happiness runs by here everyday. Just ship me a case of ammo and I will shoot all the groups you want. |
|
|
AMU guys have found that SAW ammo shoots waaay better than green tip in their 16s/M4s ... FWIW.
Quote from CO pal of AMU Ft. Benning: "We have found that M995 5.56mm Armor Piercing rounds (normally from 4-1 link for the SAW) fired from the M16A4 and M4 produce groups half the size of M855 Green Tip M16A2 Ball ammo. You will have to re-zero, as AP is both lighter and faster than Green Tip." BK AmericanSnipers.org |
|
I have been looking for a 24in upper, do you think with an extra 8 inches you could acheive a better result of the mil surp ammo?
|
|
I appreciate the queation, but will answer carefully. I am always hesitant to answer questions where I do not have personal experience. You have asked such a question. Some that I trust have said that shorter barrels vs. longer barrels do not necessarily mean anything regarding accuracy. The longer barrels will give higher velocity. But not necessarily better accuracy. With mil spec ammo, I doubt that barrel length will make much difference in accuracy, but will make a difference in velocity. Sorry for the "dance around", but I hate to give bad advice. |
|
|
Thanks for the test. Useful stuff. I must say, I'm a bit surprised at how inaccurate XM193 is. Any idea how XM855 compares with XM193?
|
|
I did not have access to any XM855 for the test. I sure would have liked to have shot some. |
|
|
Thanks for the answer, I have wondered about that myself though. Im looking for long upper for yote hunting. |
||
|
I had a very humbling experience with a 24 inch upper w/ 4x12 scope and a coyote at 8 feet. |
|
|
Could you shoot a few rounds of Wolf downrange just to compare? Please?
|
|
Please share. |
||
|
I've shot Wolf and it is about a 2 to 3 minute ammo. Fine for plinking, but not extremely accurate. |
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.