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Posted: 4/17/2006 2:15:51 PM EDT
[#1]
I can't fault you for that. I honestly feel that you are truly a good person and it comes from your heart. I understand what you are saying. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 2:19:22 PM EDT
[#2]
I trust what you are saying as it relates to you, but that doesn't mean it's that way across the board, nationwide. BTW, I am a former State Constable (about 26 years ago in SC). I can post a scan of my appointment if you'd like to see it. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 2:29:03 PM EDT
[#3]
Well, I see you have bought into the "cops write tickets to generate revenue" BS. I assure you sir, this is not the case. I have worked for several agencies in various states and at one time or another while at EVERY agency, a note from the top came down our way saying that giving warnings are just as good as writing tickets... as a Field Training Officer, I have also stressed the "not everyone needs a ticket" point to new officers. So again, writing tickets has NOTHING to do with revenue generation per se, granted agencies do see some of the $$, very little I might add, but it is NOT a $$ generating strategy by no stretch of the imagination. If it were, we would not be issued WARNING CITATION books. Another tip, you can't just stop someone because they pulled out of a bar. I do agree with you in regards to you alcohol comment... that you are correct. Again, it's not about doing 10 MPH or whatever over... it's about KNOWING and RESPECTING the rules, WHATEVER they are as a means to HELP promote a safer living. Some how I doubt your gonne see my point... and I say it AGAIN... THAT's EXACTLY what's wrong with our country today... folks like you trying to "explain away" why they did or did not do something. Bottom Line: Tickets are not a means of making $$. Good for you for "sticking it to the man" but to come here and post about it like you really accomplished something was ... well... tastless to say the least. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 2:31:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Well I'll be damned... I worked LEO in SC. I know all about Constables so lets just not go there OK. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 2:32:51 PM EDT
[#5]
That, of course, will not be necessary. You've never told me anything but the truth.  You may be correct that some departments in some areas use traffic as a cash generator. Texas passed laws many years ago that limit the amount (as a percent) of a city's budget that can come from traffic fines. This was done to shut down some "speed traps" that used these traps to generate money. I have worked at a number of police departments in my youth. Five to be exact. None of them cared about revenue generation. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 2:36:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Bowhntr6pt, you ought to realize by now that our legal system has nothing to do with justice. Prosecutors will gleefully convict an innocent, and defense attorneys don't lose any sleep at night when they get a guilty person acquitted. It's a game played by lawyers. Unfortunately, score is kept with your money and your freedom. To paraphrase an old joke, "you can play the game or you can get the bat shoved up your ass". |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 2:40:54 PM EDT
[#7]
danpass,
I just don't buy into the "I know better" line of thinking when it comes to traffic laws. You may be able to control your car at 80, but that doesn't mean the roads are built for that speed. Likewise, the poor schmucks who follow the law are expecting the traffic to be traveling less than 80 and base their driving decisions on that speed. I agree that differentials in driving speed account for many accidents. But only the fool-hardy and the arrogant blame those who are driving the limit and not those who are breaking the law. Simply put, you are not entitled to speed because you can any more than Bill Clinton was able to break the law because he could get away with it. I still haven't gotten an answer about your attitude toward illegal aliens. If you don't respect the United States as a nation of laws, why should they? |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 2:41:54 PM EDT
[#8]
So if I speed, then I'll get passed over for my next promotion and my wife will turn into a Jerry Springer candidate? Will my penis shrink too? Cause if that happens, then I'm slowing down, man. LOL, Only on Arfcom could there be enough sanctimonious bullshit to get a speeding ticket thread to 7 pages of heated debate. Some people here are just looking to be offended at the slightest "provocation".  Even class warfare and the Ten Commandments have been brought into it. Ridiculous. "Those damned rich people in their flashy BMW's, hiring them hi-fallutin' lawyers to beat tickets. You're all going to hell!!!!" 
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Posted: 4/17/2006 2:47:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Justice... ?? I have not used the word Justice. This is not about Justice. I have not insinuated that this is about Justice. Prosecutors... I have not used the word Prosecutor(s). This is not about what cases Prosecutors do/don't take to court. All I'm saying is that there is a continual posting on this site time after time about how someone has gotten over on "the system" and then they come here as if to gloat about it. Here, maybe you'll get my point: IT"S ALL ABOUT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY If more and more folks would just simply exercise PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, we would not have to watch the "monkey show" called the Legal System as much as we do today. Are you guys just trying to screw with me...  .
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Posted: 4/17/2006 2:49:04 PM EDT
[#10]
PeteCO,
If your logical leap is indicative of your every day mind set, then you will suffer not for speeding, but because you cannot be trusted. A man who is devious is little ways is devious in most everything. If you think you are above the law, ala Bill Clinton, then there is no stopping you from stealing from your boss, cheating on your wife, and cheating on your taxes. You have already established that you are not bound to the law. When you get down to it, you don't have any standards. Your so called moral choices are not based on right or wrong but rather on what is "good" for you and "screw everyone else." Your wife ought not to put much stock in any promises you made. I doesn't appear that you would stick with them if you felt you were entitled to "more." Don't feel alone. I believe many of the folks on this forum feel the same way you do. They do not limit their actions because of a love for what is long established as right or wrong. Like common criminals, they make their decisions based on what they can get away with. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 2:51:06 PM EDT
[#11]
I really don't understand why people feel the need to go over the posted speed limit. The amount of time saved, especially for short distances, is tiny and you waste more gas $$ (that could better be spent on ammo  ). I especially love it when someone practically hits oncoming traffic in trying to pass you, and then 15 minutes later you end up behind the same bozo at a traffic light. Yeah, that made a lot of sense.  Even in a medical emergency, you are better off either calling 911 or driving the speed limit to avoid an accident. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 2:58:31 PM EDT
[#12]
PeteCO,
This is running so long because it isn't about a speeding ticket, but rather about people who feel entitled to do the wrong thing. I don't know if you have kids. Trust me, if one of your kids is in an accident caused by reckless driving, in particular speeding, are you going to ask for justice or shake the other guy's hand and say, "I admire your willingness to run by your own rules?" |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 2:58:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Flaming crock of shit. I occasionally speed, therefore I might as well be a pedophile, right? Spare me the drama. Not to mention that the crimes you listed are crimes against people, while speeding is just prior restraint.
You have chosen to rationalize your position by jumping to the most ridiculous, inane conclusions I've yet seen on this board. Not to mention brazen personal attacks. Do you honestly think that this is such a white/black area that the above statements are in any way true? If that were indeed the case, the murder rate should be sky high - the only thing separating a person with a few speeding tickets from a murder conviction is the right set of circumstances?
Ah, so rule of law equals right or wrong? Do I even have to waste words refuting THAT bunch of BS? Spare me further tripe and proselytizing about your "superior" moral position. I understand that the law is there for safety. You must understand that at times it is approprioate to speed (like keeping up with traffic, as I do). Try to tell me you've never violated any traffic rule, and I'll sit here poised to call you on it. Driving 80MPH through a school zone, and going 10MPH over the limit on an interstate are TOTALLY different things. Use your judgement, man. That's what the government did when they provided for different penalties for a traffic infraction and a violent felony. I can't imagine going through life, as you seem to, thinking that all traffic violators are immoral scumbags. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:02:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Let me give you all an example of what I am talking about...
Last year my teenage daughter got in trouble for shopliftng with a friend, she was 14. Of course this was quite embarrising for the wife and I as we have certainly tried to instill good character traits in our children. Well, during the juvenile intake process, I insisted that my daughter get the "full treatment" no slack what so ever. The store, under Florida law, was also entiled to compensation under the Florida Victim's Compensation Act. Well, of course the strore would not seek a lawsuit if I refused to pay the already established $200 fee because the cost of such action would negate any benefit... Most folks don't pay, most folks get away with not paying... screw that... my kid did wrong... I paid and my kid worked off the $$. Many argued points such as 1) well the store got the stuff back undamaged or 2) well we never actually made it out of the store, and 3) well, I've never done this before... ALL EXCUSES. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, try it sometime. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:04:30 PM EDT
[#15]
PeteCO,
You have proved my point. Rather than discuss the serious points of law breaking vs. obeying the law, you resort to hyperbole and such silly statements as labeling traffic laws as "bullshit prior restraint." Please tell me, wise man of the mountain, what laws are not prior warnings? Morality is black and white except for those who do not wish to follow moral standards. You do not murder because you are certain you would pay too high a price. I don't doubt you are more than capable of murder. Pete, buddy ol' friend o' boy, you don't come across as particularly deep in the intellectual or moral stream. You really ought to warn your wife. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:04:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Not to get too far off topic, but a court doesn't find people 'INNOCENT'. They will find you 'NOT GUILTY'. Remember OJ?
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:06:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Seriously, do they not teach the difference between malum prohibitum and malum in se in the police academy any more? 
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:11:29 PM EDT
[#18]
The police dept's simply enforce the traffic (and others,of course) laws on the books. City councils and Mayors actually write the city ordinances and set the fine amounts. So, it's technically true that the police department doesn't use traffic citations to generate revenue, they are simply the means for the politicians to generate revenue. Different perspective but same end. Revenue happens, and other enforcement suffers. Have you ever had trouble getting someone to come out to a burglary of your car or home? How about someone threatening you? Reporting vandalism? The ol' "I didn't see it so I can't do anything about it will come, IF you're lucky enough to have an occifer show up at all. It's simply a "coincidence" that they NEVER see these other crimes but just "happen" to be out writing traffic tickets and get these "bothersome" calls in between. Cynical? Yes, but say it isn't true.... So, I'm not really cop-bashing (I don't think) but actually commenting on the money grubbing asshats in city governments who use their enforcement branch in a manner that does their citizens harm by directing them to write traffic citations at the expense of other crime. The officers say, "I'm just doing my job" and the cycle continues. Don't just pay the ticket, EVER. Get a lawyer to make them EARN that money, why make it easy? |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:12:49 PM EDT
[#19]
Buy a dictionary and use it.
Yet here you are, with MORE PERSONAL ATTACKS and rhetoric, doing just what you accuse me of doing? Wow. Also see above - prior restraint is not a "prior warning". Besides, what I meant is that murder is a crime against a person. Speeding is not.
So all traffic violators are capable of murder and other crimes (rape, robbery, etc) and you are superior to them, having NEVER BROKEN A TRAFFIC LAW? Answer this for me please, so you can expose yourself as a liar and hypocrite.
If you only knew just who you were talking to. I suppose you are entitled to your opinion on the morals issue, however.
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:15:12 PM EDT
[#20]
As a city-dweller, voter and tax payer, I don't think our cops write enough tickets. Most people stopped for traffic violations are irresponsible idiots. I want the cops to stop them, talk to them, ticket them, and God willing, arrest them if they are up to other illegal acts.
In the 35+ years I have been driving, I've never had a "problem" with the police. I have been stopped and ticketed, but I damn sure was guilty each and every of the six or so times it has happened. Most people who have "problems" with the police create their own problems. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:16:18 PM EDT
[#21]
What's your point? I subscribe to the "do what's right" regardless if it's Statutory or not. There's a lot of crap folks do that's not "good" but totally legal... I'm not sure as to the intent of your post. Actually, I've never seen the terms used in the academy (FL or SC) but I know what you mean by them. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:16:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Pete,
Go for it. Tell us what makes you so special and above the law. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:19:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Can I get a "HELL YEA".... + 1 for you Sir. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:23:50 PM EDT
[#24]
The money is in the speed, not the rest of the traffic regulations. For every speeder [NOT DUI, or someone who falls asleep] who wrecks, there are scores of people maimed by red light runners and stop sign scofflaws. I cringe every time I get a running green because almost every traffic light will have someone run it. Thats because its a whole lot more fun and profitable to pop someone doing 10 over, then sitting in a parking lot watching a light change.
And I see cops break every traffic law in the book every day. They are NOT going to "something" either. It's plain old fact, and I spend enough time on the road in my job at all hours of the day and night to know which one's do it. I don't bitch about it but if speed kills, we'd have a shortage of cops. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:27:46 PM EDT
[#25]
Police forces spend too much time with traffic enforcement and not on crime enforcement. In fact, traffic enforcement represents the biggest, single activity performed for almost all PDs throughout the nation. This model is outdated and PD's will become outdated if they continue for too long.
In fact, for some PD's that need to refocus manpower into crime enforcement, they invest in cameras for traffic enforcement because they cannot give up the revenue. We are in a sad state of affairs here. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:29:15 PM EDT
[#26]
Did I ever say I was special, and above the law? No. Answer my question in the above thread. Let me simplify things for you: - TacticalStrat worked within the framework provided by the law to win his case. Period. That means the court found him not guilty. - Several of us have admitted to occasional speeding and other minor infractions. If I get a ticket, I will pay it. If I choose to fight it, as is my right under the law, and win, well then kudos to me. - Your assertion is that these people (us) are no better, and no morally different, that the worst criminals of society. -You have repeatedly attacked me personally (just as you routinely do to other members in other threads) with no coherent argument to back your absurdly obtuse and black/white assertions. This is against the CoC. I suppose your little framework of moral standards allows you to violate those rules without affecting your Jesus-like perfection, eh? - I am 100% positive you commit a crime at least once a month. There is such a patchwork of product use, banking, environmental, and traffic laws that it is literally impossible to avoid. You have still not answered my question on the matter, but I sort of expected that from you. How do you reconcile this with your belief system? How do you handle your social interactions with others, for instance at work? I'm sure that YOU have a spotless driving record, but considering that almost everyone else you work with are immoral scumbags who can't be trusted not to steal from you or even assault you (since they probably speed or roll through a stop sign on occasion), how do you function in that environment? I would honestly love to hear about it. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:29:27 PM EDT
[#27]
FXNTime,
How long have you had the ability to read the minds of cops? BTW, the same idiots who speed are the same ones who run lights, fail to yield, don't use turn signals, on and on and on. If we can stick it to speeders for more money, then Hallejuliah! If the cops are hitting them where it hurts the most, then God bless them. In summation, I don't think you know what you are talking about. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:29:33 PM EDT
[#28]
or the increased insurance rates would be more than that |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:29:47 PM EDT
[#29]
My point is that there is a big difference between violating a malum prohibitum law and violating a malum in se law. Your daughter violated a malum in se law, and I think everyone here would agree that stealing is wrong and deserves punishment. But speeding is not malum in se, it is malum prohibitum. The essence of the distinction which the law recognizes is that a malum prohibitum law prohibits something which is not otherwise immoral, while a malum in se law prohibits something that is morally reprehensible. Thus, the law itself recognizes that what is immoral and what is illegal is not the same thing in many instances. Now, with regards to speeding I think there is some confusion because the criminal law intersects with the concept of negligence. There is nothing morally wrong with violating a malum prohibitum law, but there is something wrong with driving in such a manner as to endanger others. I don't think anyone can credibly argue that going 5 miles over the speed limit, which is quite typical, on a day with no traffic is driving in a negligent manner. In contrast, driving 70 in a 15 mph school zone while children are walking to school is immoral, but not because the malum prohibitum law was broken, but because the act was negligent in endangering the lives of the children. Buth the latter is not the case here. What TacticalStrat did was therefore illegal, but not immoral, and I think you (and others) are confusing the two. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:35:58 PM EDT
[#30]
Was On Civil Disobedience required reading in your high schools?
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:36:09 PM EDT
[#31]
PeteCO,
Dang, counselor, I'm sooooo confused. You applaud the man for working within the law to avoid punishment for an illegal act he admits to, but you also call the law "bullshit." Peter, which is it? And Pete, let me put this in as few and as simple words as possible. It is about doing the right thing. As for THE TRUTH about right on wrong. I don't make any of this up. This Truth has been around for thousands of years. Whether you accept it or not, it is still THE TRUTH. Try to delfect it all you want, but the reality of your world seems to be that you don't think people ought to held to any standard whatsoever. This guy endangered the lives of others, broke the law, and bragged about it and I'll be damned but you have gone to great lengths to praise him for his cunning! Promise you won't open a day care center or nursing home. I shudder to think what you would do to children and the elderly if they stood in the way of your ego. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:36:32 PM EDT
[#32]
I exceed the speed limit daily. I hope it pisses you off.
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:36:47 PM EDT
[#33]
In close to 14 years as a cop I have never seen a jury trial for any infraction. Are you sure you can get a jury trial for an infraction (speeding ticket) in Cali? |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:40:06 PM EDT
[#34]
More personal attacks, and yet you continue to dodge the questions posed to you.  |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:42:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Sure are a lot of people here who bought into the 'speed kills' campaign pulled by NHTSA a while back which btw was not based on any scientific evidence what-so-ever. Funny how many government agencies come up with conclusions before doing any fact finding in the first place.
Montana's lowest traffic fatality rate was durring the short time there was no speed limit on the highway at all, it's second lowest, just slightly higher, being when it was 'reasonable and prudent'. When speed limits were reinstated fatality rates went back up to their normal levels. Speed does not kill. VARIANCE of speed kills. Getting out of any speed ticket where you were not a danger to anyone else should deserve a pat on the back. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:42:24 PM EDT
[#36]
Yeap its an option here in CA. Seen it and have been present to it. Sidenote to Tacticalstrat - I've never handed out a ticket that wasn't deserved and have never lost a ticket. So bring a lawyer....Its only more overtime for me
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:44:41 PM EDT
[#37]
55MPH in a 50MPH is reckless???????????????? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:46:28 PM EDT
[#38]
Why do we continue to allow these stupid speed limit laws? I have a German freind who said , "If our goverment passed a 100KPH. speed limit law, everyone would obey it. Then we would vote everyone who passed it out the next election."
Why do we let them get away with it? Why don't we fight it? This isn't a slam against anyone, because I'm as bad as the rest, speeding and complaining, but doing nothing about it. I don't see why many roads in our country couldn't be "safe and resonable" for the speed limit. Isn't that real freedom? |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:46:54 PM EDT
[#39]
But Tact, you said you were going 28 mph over the limit. How is that not reckless?
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:47:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Dude, the guy is a nutcase, read the last page or two. You and I will burn in hell for all eternity, by the way. For speeding. He however, sits without sin in a place that is special and holy. Well, except for his incessant personal attacks. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:48:01 PM EDT
[#41]
All you self-righteous types: Each one of you is an unconvicted criminal, just like everyone else. I'd borrow money from the mob to bet that every driver here has rolled through a stop sign, for example. And we all break laws on a daily basis that we're not even aware of.
So take a break with the sanctimonious hypocrisy. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:50:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Probably because I watched them pull into the copstation or into the county garage. OR pull into THEIR driveway. And I have ran traffic before so I DO know what I am talking about. I have also done ride alongs, gone thru two "schools" the local cop shops put on every year, and know more then a few. I don't view them as bad people or bad cops, but the facts are that cops speed on a regular basis in about every jurisdiction I have ever lived in. I ran the Autobahn ON PATROL for almost 2 years, if speed kills then I would have seen it. And I saw very, VERY few accidents whatsoever that were speed induced. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:55:45 PM EDT
[#43]
That was another ticket. You said: "Speeding is reckless. This isn't that hard to follow." You did not specify any speed, just that speeding in general was reckless. My original post about my violation and my court hearing today was a 55MPH in a 50MPH zone. So I guess you're cool with someone doing 55MPH in a 50MPH then...right??? |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:58:05 PM EDT
[#44]
Actually dude, being a speeder and all, you cannot be trusted with children or the elderly, and you cannot be trusted not to steal or cheat on your wife. The man believes that - he certainly isn't going to listen to anyone about anything. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 4:00:00 PM EDT
[#45]
My agency tracks moving violations and traffic collisions monthly. As moving violation citations increase trafic collisions decrease. As moving violation citations decrease, traffic collisions increase. That has been true in every month since we began tracking those statistics several years ago. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 4:04:24 PM EDT
[#46]
And we don't buy into your line of thinking. What is so hard for you to understand about that? |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 4:05:04 PM EDT
[#47]
Please post the statistics. I'd love to see them and how significant a difference there is. |
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Posted: 4/17/2006 4:06:42 PM EDT
[#48]
LOL!!! I know!! Kittens and school-yards of kids fall dead in my wake as I speed on my way to my destination.
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Posted: 4/17/2006 4:08:08 PM EDT
[#49]
So when more people break the law speeding it is safer, and when less people break the speed laws it is more dangerous?
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Posted: 4/17/2006 4:19:38 PM EDT
[#50]
Thanks God I don't live in Commiefornistan anymore, so I don't have to worry about it.
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