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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:28:23 AM EDT
LAPEER, Mich. — For sale: Collector quality, fully automatic M-16 in excellent condition. Never fired outside shooting range.
Buyer must have machine gun permit and have no criminal record. And deep pockets. Strapped for cash, the Lapeer County Sheriff's Department is selling the original Colt rifle on its Web site to purchase new guns and other equipment for its 82 deputies. The office hasn't received a budget increase in six years, and Undersheriff Robert Rapson said the gun might fetch as much as $1,700 by the time bidding closes May 1. "We are a small county and we need to take advantage of this," Rapson told the Detroit Free Press for a story published Tuesday. "We've had to cut to the bone for a long time." The department purchased the weapon, which is capable of firing 700 rounds per minute, for $500 in the 1970s for use in emergencies such as hostage situations. Last fall, the department sold off its arsenal of five AR-15 automatic rifles. Cool  |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:29:26 AM EDT
[#1]
Local Class III guys will ensure it ges for more than $1,700! More like 10 times that.
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:31:05 AM EDT
[#2]
No shit, for $1700 I'd buy 10! |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:34:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Waitasecond.
If it was owned by an law enforcement agency, it's not on the registry, is it? So we plebes can't receive it via ATF approved transfer. The only people who could, would be those with a Class 3 SOT. The same ones who always seem to have the other nifty toys that they post videos of themselves shooting and tinkering with. Aren't those SOT licenses supposed to be to SELL the things, not PLAY with them? Because I'm getting the distinct impression that many Class 3 SOTs have their licenses to sidestep the '86 ban and aquire toys, and only sell a few to stay legit (nudge nudge). |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:35:37 AM EDT
[#4]
The office hasn't received a budget increase in six years.
That is pathetic. The citizens of that county should be raising hell. A department has to sell off it's weapons because the local politicans are not doing what needs to be done. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:35:55 AM EDT
[#5]
IF it's transferable. If it's not, it's not worth much of anything. Just because they bought it in the 70s doesn't mean it was in the nFA registry before 1986. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:36:08 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:37:20 AM EDT
[#7]
I told our local police chief how much they were worth and his eyes grew big, until I pointed out the transferable part.
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:39:28 AM EDT
[#8]
True... I don't know the legalities of CIII or Form 4 stuff. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:39:44 AM EDT
[#9]
According to the sale link, it is transferable on a form 4. (Don't know anything about that 'cause I can't afford anything NFA, nor can I purchase anything NFA until I turn 21)
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:42:18 AM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:43:39 AM EDT
[#11]
$1700...I think they will be pleasantly surprised at the end of the auction.
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:46:01 AM EDT
[#12]
Didnt we leave like a million of thses over in Vietnam???
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:46:03 AM EDT
[#13]
$14k
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:47:52 AM EDT
[#14]
BE SURE TO MAIL THEM SUPPORT LETTERS!
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:48:14 AM EDT
[#15]
Pfft. Screw that, they want $1,700, I'll give them $1,700.  Incidentally, SteyrAUG had a thread last year about a POST-86 TRANSFERABLE MP5 he encountered. The guy was a LEO who asked his chief for an MP5. Instead of issuing one, the chief sent paperwork to BATFE to get a post-86 MPG legally transferred to him. According to the letter of the law, they can do that. If the ATF or a police department wants to transfer a machine gun to a private individual, they can. They just don't. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:49:14 AM EDT
[#16]
wow
I wish So this is open to the general public, right? It's gonna' go through the roof. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:50:02 AM EDT
[#17]
I was unaware of that. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:50:07 AM EDT
[#18]
Yeah, but those all had that pesky "US GOVERNMENT PROPERTY" stamp on them... I could swear I've heard of at least one that, uh, 'migrated' back to the states and was registered during the '68 amnesty. It'd be interesting to see exactly how that would get ruled on by the courts. I'm sure the ATF would rig things before the truth every got to a judge or jury, though. If the State Department didn't beat them to it. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 9:58:29 AM EDT
[#19]
According to the wording of the law, the government or an agency thereof can transfer an otherwise untransferable machine gun to a private citizen, I do believe. If we can get SteyrAUG to chime in here to fill us in on details, since I may be misremembering something, it'd be great. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:00:40 AM EDT
[#20]
If PDs were smart, they would all auction off their transferable NFA items.
Not all pre-86 MGs owned by PDs are transferable, but there are more than you think. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:03:33 AM EDT
[#21]
If only other PDs would follow...
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:06:25 AM EDT
[#22]
1. Auction all transferable NFA items. 2. .... 3. Profit! (Really, really profit!) 4. Buy brand new full-auto equipment |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:08:06 AM EDT
[#23]
 Damn shame they are, in essence, having a garage sale to make ends meet. Normally, I'd say that the problem would be fiscal incompetence, but not having a budget increase in 6 years is stupid. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:18:53 AM EDT
[#24]
YEP! 
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:20:12 AM EDT
[#25]
Cash-Strapped Michigan Sheriff's Department Auctioning Machine Gun
Tuesday, February 27, 2007 E-MAIL STORY PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION LAPEER, Mich. — For sale: Collector quality, fully automatic M-16 in excellent condition. Never fired outside shooting range. Buyer must have machine gun permit and have no criminal record. And deep pockets. Strapped for cash, the Lapeer County Sheriff's Department is selling the original Colt rifle on its Web site to purchase new guns and other equipment for its 82 deputies. The office hasn't received a budget increase in six years, and Undersheriff Robert Rapson said the gun might fetch as much as $1,700 by the time bidding closes May 1. "We are a small county and we need to take advantage of this," Rapson told the Detroit Free Press for a story published Tuesday. "We've had to cut to the bone for a long time." The department purchased the weapon, which is capable of firing 700 rounds per minute, for $500 in the 1970s for use in emergencies such as hostage situations. Last fall, the department sold off its arsenal of five AR-15 automatic rifles. (Story continues below) Advertise Here Advertisements A 1986 federal law banned the sale of new automatic weapons but allowed those already in circulation to be sold. "The fact that a law enforcement agency is selling a dangerous weapon is appalling," said Shikha Hamilton, president of the Michigan chapter of the Million Mom March, a gun control group |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:21:47 AM EDT
[#26]
Now THAT I did NOT expect to see!  ETA: All your page 2 are belong to me. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:24:21 AM EDT
[#27]
A transferrable M16 can go for $15,000 or more. Eight or more brand new F2000s can be purchased by the same department for that money. What would you rather have in your department? 
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:25:06 AM EDT
[#28]
I wouldn't have beleived it if I didn't see it myself. Form 4 post 86 MG to an individual. Only one I've ever seen or heard of. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:25:19 AM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:25:28 AM EDT
[#30]
Anyone know what a post-86 LEO mp5 runs?
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:26:24 AM EDT
[#31]
Damn, they're sealed bids. Man, I'm REALLY tempted here, but I don't want to bid too much. Fuck. Decisions, decisions.
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:26:30 AM EDT
[#32]
Around $1200-1400 depending upon model. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:28:46 AM EDT
[#33]
damn, thats a lot lower than i imagined. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:29:35 AM EDT
[#34]
About $1,500, IIRC. Hk doesn't make the MP5 anymore, so the price may have gone up. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:31:44 AM EDT
[#35]
They are selling it to make ends meet not go buy new stuff. They already sold their other AR-15's to raise money. Pathetic. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:33:16 AM EDT
[#36]
Back in the mid 90's they were selling used MP5's full stocks for $495. I almost bought one but got a full auto L1A1 instead for $150. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:38:04 AM EDT
[#37]
The town I grew up in sold a Thompson and bought a new cruiser.
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:43:39 AM EDT
[#38]
No kidding. If that trend keeps up, they'll end up selling cruisers and cutting patrols / shifts / jobs. Michigan is no different than any other place - it wouldn't surprise me if the city council wasn't being fiscally honest. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:49:43 AM EDT
[#39]
We've got a crap load of Thompsons down in the armory. Unfortunately my dept. would never sell them on the civilian market. Hell, they won't even give/sell you your own sidearm when you retire. Plus they just melted down our entire stock of 870s when we switched to carbines, instead of selling them to dept. members or outside sources. I'd hate to know what happened to the rest of the Thompsons, BARs, etc. that my dept. has used over the years... |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:55:30 AM EDT
[#40]
Wait a second. So if a local sheriff/PD (or any government agency from what you described) was friendly, a private individual(NOT an employee of the agency?) could get a post 86 MG transfered to them?!?! If thats the case, and since the gun would then be on a F4, does that mean said lucky individual could resell the weapon to another private individual on a F4? |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:57:04 AM EDT
[#41]
That's really evil... 
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:58:17 AM EDT
[#42]
I've heard of it happeing one time with one of the Fed agencies. For an MP5 so it may be the same weapon. This is an oddity, not a route to get new class III's. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 10:58:28 AM EDT
[#43]
and some will still do everything they can to make the department seem like the ones in the wrong. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 11:10:10 AM EDT
[#44]
I believe with the right ad and marketing strategy the 1986 ban can get amended to allow limited additions to the transferable registry.
I read an article 6 months ago about another MI PD that sold off 5-6 M16's for 12-14K each! Two years ago I bought two M16A2's from the Arkansas State Police. They were mint! I've also seen a lot of Mini-14 full autos coming from PD's These departments are bringing in much needed funds. They are able to purchase new weapons and equipment for their officers without raping the taxpayers. It's a "Win Win" situation. But what happens when all the transferable weapons are sold. The PD's are stuck with 10-20 year old weapons that are worn out or outdated and worth almost zero! Here is the Plan to fix that and it will work with support from a most unlikely source. Police Departments Put together a petition to try and get a bill introduced to amend the 1986 ban to allow full transfer of any weapon held in law enforcement inventory for a period of 5 years or more. Call it the "Resource Recovery Amendment" or some other happy crap liberal name. Have the PD's that have already profited from these sales sign and support it. The PD's could auction off their inventory every 5 years and buy all new weapons with money left over! (New toys for all the boys, how could they resist supporting that) The 5-year rule would not devalue the current market much, if at all, due to limited transactions vs. new demand for previously unavailable items. Maybe even get the ATFE to support it by suggesting a 300.00 tax stamp on these. The 1986 ban will never be overturned...but it could be amended with the help of the most unlikely source. My .02 |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 11:18:27 AM EDT
[#45]
They'd never go for that. That allows a constant re-introduction of MGs into the supply. It'd be palatable to suggest that all MGs held by the PD made prior to 1986 be released. This makes it a finite supply, but a very large one. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 11:25:46 AM EDT
[#46]
Yes, but in Politics you have to go for the Gold and then compromise. Why not suggest Critical-Mass' propsal and "compromise" with thedoctors308's ? NEVER propose what you actually hope to get passed. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 11:27:59 AM EDT
[#47]
Good idea, but I have one amendment to it: All the ARFcommers that ever said/wrote "LEOs should not have machineguns" or "I'm sick of the 'militarization' of the police" would be put on a list, and forbidden from obtaining one of these PD transfered MGs. We don't want to make hypocrites out of them afterall. 
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Posted: 2/27/2007 11:33:37 AM EDT
[#48]
They (if you mean congress) might go for it with PD's supporting the amendment. They will never go for it with just the common folks wanting it. This is the only thing that has a chance, even though a small one. At least it is an option instead of rolling over and playing dead. Yes it allows for a constant re-introductions of MGs, although limited. That is the point, they were being re-introduced prior to 1986. The whole dam 1986 ban is a joke, you can still buy... just pay 15X. Most of the inventory in PDs that were obtained pre-may '86 are transferable, except for the imports. Imports must be pre-1968. I'm trying to offer a solution to the finite supply! What is the alternative? |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 11:38:51 AM EDT
[#49]
No complaints from me. Thank you Arkansas State Police for the M16A2's 
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Posted: 2/27/2007 11:43:26 AM EDT
[#50]
Theoretically. Though I doubt ATF would approve that Form 4 transfer. At best he might be able to Form 5 it to a family member one day. |
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