There's no such thing as a fireproof safe... ***PICS*** (56k beware) ***UPDATE PAGE 5*** - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - There's no such thing as a fireproof safe... ***PICS*** (56k beware) ***UPDATE PAGE 5*** (Page 1 of 4)

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:37:30 AM EDT

A customer stopped in today and dropped these off... He said I could have them.
Last Summer his house burned to the ground. These guns were all locked in a Sentry fireproof gun safe.
Looks like it didn't do him much good... A 1400 degree temp rating for 30 minutes isn't enough to protect your investments during a fully engulfed house fire. It only acts as an oven.

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:39:55 AM EDT

[#1]

The safes are rated for temp and time.
The first thing you're supposed to do is ensure that your safe is hosed down as soon as possible. Otherwise, the heat of the safe itself will cook your guns. Perhaps his safe sat awhile after the fire?

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:40:32 AM EDT

[#2]

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:41:22 AM EDT

[#3]

[Zumbohater] That guy is obviously a fudd[/Zumbohater]

Seriously....that is about what I thought would happen.

Extra Insurance is the real way to protect your guns.

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:42:19 AM EDT

[#4]

That sucks. Practice fire safety.

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:42:25 AM EDT

[#5]

The question is..... would it have been any different with other safes?

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:43:05 AM EDT

[#6]

That really sucks, but he's lucky he didn't turn out looking like those guns...

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:44:05 AM EDT

[#7]

If one truly has high dollar guns in a safe it might be worth it to invest in one of those home sprinkler systems and if nothing else just set it up around the safe.
Or move the safe someplace wheres theres not much "house", such as in the garage. I'm sure keeping a safe in the basement then having the whole house burn down into the basement would really cook a safe.

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:44:33 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
The question is..... would it have been any different with other safes?

I have though about extra layers of sheetrock around the outside. I know that wouldn't be practical for the door, but it might add a little extra protection.

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:45:37 AM EDT

[#9]

I'll take the 10/22!!

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:47:57 AM EDT

[#10]

wow, antique weapons from the Civil War era!

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:48:58 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I'll take the 10/22!!

That's a Browning lever action, I believe.

I would take that one just to see if it was salvagable.

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:50:30 AM EDT

[#12]

The scope doesn't look too bad compared to the guns

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:51:17 AM EDT

[#13]

Looks like they sat around wet after the fire, too. I wonder how damaged they were immediately after the blaze; obviously the poly stocks were trashed, but a lot of that damage looks like rust. Guy probably had plenty of other things to worry about after losing his house.

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:51:23 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'll take the 10/22!!

That's a Browning lever action, I believe.

I would take that one just to see if it was salvagable.

One up from the bottom

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:52:16 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'll take the 10/22!!

That's a Browning lever action, I believe.

I would take that one just to see if it was salvagable.

The second from the bottom in the first pic is used to be a 10/22.

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:52:26 AM EDT

[#16]

Yeesh. What a waste.

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:53:58 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'll take the 10/22!!

That's a Browning lever action, I believe.

I would take that one just to see if it was salvagable.

One up from the bottom

Yeah I see the 10/22, I was just commenting ,if there was one to try to salvage the lever action would be the one I would want.

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:54:48 AM EDT

[#18]

That safe Zumbo'd his firearms!

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:54:51 AM EDT

[#19]

I never really thought of that. I like to think that my safe wont have to endure what it is rated for since I live in an suburban area with good fire response times. I hope.

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:55:11 AM EDT

[#20]

That makes me sad...

What would you guys recommend insurance-whise for a gun collection?

-mb

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:55:46 AM EDT

[#21]

You could probably clean up the receiver from the 10/22, that's about it.

Save them for a city/state funded guy buyback day when they offer you $80 bucks a gun.

I have a Stack-On Elite and it sits in the basement under my kitchen. Had a plumber install a commercial sprinkler head over the thing for $100 bucks. That should give the safe and my storage room a better chance standing up to a fire. I also keep 1 gallon jugs on top of the safe.

For anyone who thinks they're getting in I keep quite a bit of blackpowder and smokless in the bottom of the safe, in a tray. Any spark will turn the safe into a 1,000lb grenade.

My homeowners covers $5K in guns so I'm covered, but probably will up it to $7,500 here before too long.

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:55:49 AM EDT

[#22]

I can't believe no ones said it.... That'll buff right out!

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:56:03 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The question is..... would it have been any different with other safes?

I have though about extra layers of sheetrock around the outside. I know that wouldn't be practical for the door, but it might add a little extra protection.

One thing I thought about was storing a couple large water cooler jugs on top the safe. In a fire, they would bust and cool off the safe and suppress the surrounding fire.

Posted: 3/8/2007 7:56:33 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
The safes are rated for temp and time.
The first thing you're supposed to do is ensure that your safe is hosed down as soon as possible. Otherwise, the heat of the safe itself will cook your guns. Perhaps his safe sat awhile after the fire?

If the safe isn't in a decorative area of the house, how would it be to stand a 100-gallon water tank on top of the safe, so that at some point in the fire the tank would melt and douse the safe with water?

Total cost = <$100.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:00:52 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The question is..... would it have been any different with other safes?

I have though about extra layers of sheetrock around the outside. I know that wouldn't be practical for the door, but it might add a little extra protection.

One thing I thought about was storing a couple large water cooler jugs on top the safe. In a fire, they would bust and cool off the safe and suppress the surrounding fire.

Believe it or not , I thought of just running a sprinkler system over mine , It's really not that expensive to do.

Does anyone know of a good company that insures firearms ?

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:03:20 AM EDT

[#26]

I think I have enough spare parts to fix the 10/22.

I agree, mother nature is probably what did most of the damage.

I think they sat in a pile of burnt rubble most of the Summer. The poor guys house was a complete loss, and even scorched the side of his camper... which he's been living in ever since.
I told him if I could save any of them, I'd fix 'em and give 'em back... But I don't expect much. The Browning lever gun is probably the most valuble of the bunch.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:03:46 AM EDT

[#27]

Originally Posted By moproclean

Save them for a city/state funded guy buyback day when they offer you $80 bucks a gun.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:06:54 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Originally Posted By moproclean

Save them for a city/state funded guy buyback day when they offer you $80 bucks a gun.

Hey... now THERE'S a good idea.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:07:04 AM EDT

[#29]

I would bead blast and refinish, replace stocks, and try to salvage them.

As long as the heat didn't warp the receivers/barrels (highly doubtful), the guns should be salvageable.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:08:52 AM EDT

[#30]

I want the bolt action rifle, third from the top, in the first pic.

I'm not even sure what it is but I want it anyway.

CJ

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:11:36 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
I can't believe no ones said it.... That'll buff right out!

I knew someone would beat me to it...

I was just thinking... Some WD-40, Kroil, Steel Wool, and some Elbow Grease and some of those will be good as new!

ETA: Maybe a new stock will be needed though.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:11:39 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
The safes are rated for temp and time.

+1 Short of building yourself a concrete vault, a fire safe that performs as advertised (in terms of temperature and time) is as good as it gets.

My safe is in my basement. If my house burnt to the ground (and filled the basement with hot coals) I'd be pleasantly surprised if the contents survived.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:11:40 AM EDT

[#33]

how much for the lever action w/o scope? (to hang above the bar)

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:12:48 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The question is..... would it have been any different with other safes?

I have though about extra layers of sheetrock around the outside. I know that wouldn't be practical for the door, but it might add a little extra protection.

One thing I thought about was storing a couple large water cooler jugs on top the safe. In a fire, they would bust and cool off the safe and suppress the surrounding fire.

Believe it or not , I thought of just running a sprinkler system over mine , It's really not that expensive to do.

Does anyone know of a good company that insures firearms ?

You just have to have a rider on your home owner’s insurance policy for the amount you want to protect. It works for jewelry as well as firearms.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:16:11 AM EDT

[#35]

If those were Glocks they'd still be fine.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:18:20 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

If the safe isn't in a decorative area of the house, how would it be to stand a 100-gallon water tank on top of the safe, so that at some point in the fire the tank would melt and douse the safe with water?

Total cost = <$100.

But it won't work. Take a styrofoam cup, fill it up with water and set it on the grill. Because the water will never get above 212 the styrofoam will never melt and the cup of water will just boil off. Try it, it makes a mess and the fumes are bad but it's worth it.

-JTP

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:18:38 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
If those were Glocks they'd still be fine.

Nah. They would have detonated and taken out the whole block.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:23:04 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If the safe isn't in a decorative area of the house, how would it be to stand a 100-gallon water tank on top of the safe, so that at some point in the fire the tank would melt and douse the safe with water?

Total cost = <$100.

But it won't work. Take a styrofoam cup, fill it up with water and set it on the grill. Because the water will never get above 212 the styrofoam will never melt and the cup of water will just boil off. Try it, it makes a mess and the fumes are bad but it's worth it.

-JTP

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:25:16 AM EDT

[#39]

First thing to remember: NOTHING is fireproof, only resistant to fire.

A safe in the basement is especially vulnerable because the concrete walls really hold in the heat and water.

A sprinkler system works well but then you have water damage to deal with. Most/all safes are not waterproof.
Having water jugs on top is next to useless. Even 100 gallons may not be enough, not to mention the danger of having 800+ pounds of weight sitting on your safe.

Having enough insurance really lessens the pain of losing your guns to fire.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:26:13 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The safes are rated for temp and time.
The first thing you're supposed to do is ensure that your safe is hosed down as soon as possible. Otherwise, the heat of the safe itself will cook your guns. Perhaps his safe sat awhile after the fire?

If the safe isn't in a decorative area of the house, how would it be to stand a 100-gallon water tank on top of the safe, so that at some point in the fire the tank would melt and douse the safe with water?

Total cost = <$100.

It won't work, you can't melt plastic with water inside of it. I would just boil the water. A wax plug may work but that would also fail while you are on vacation and ruin your stuff too.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:27:17 AM EDT

[#41]

That's why I use Stack-On safes. They're so light I can scoop one up and run out of the house if things are burning.

As for security effectiveness, not so much.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:28:20 AM EDT

[#42]

Bummer!

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:35:15 AM EDT

[#43]

Actually, there are fireproof safes. They just aren't the "safes" that most people buy.

Safes by most of the big name companies that most of the big box stores carry aren't really even truly safes by Underwriter's Laboratory standards. They are considered Residential Security Containers (RSC's) if they are even UL listed at all.

The "fireproofing" material that they use is drywall. I don't care what they call it, fireboard, or some other proprietary name, it is drywall. Drywall is a flame retardant, NOT a heat retardant.

What that means is that you might keep the flames at bay in a 1200F fire for 30 minutes, but that won't do a bit of good to keep heat from destroying your firearms, like in this example.

Not to mention that most house fires are MUCH hotter than 1200F.

There are safes that truly do offer fire protection, but they aren't cheap, and most people won't invest the money into them. These safes are UL listed for fire and theft and usually start in the neighborhood of $3000 new. A lightweight UL listed safe will probably weigh in at 1500lbs minimum. They will offer fire protection at 1750F for one hour, and it is true fire and heat protection as tested by UL, not a biased factory rating.

If you don't have many guns, then they probably are not worth it, but if you have a valuable collection, you better think twice about the safe you use.

These UL listed safes will use things such as concrete in the walls, or ceramic tile (similar to the space shuttle), in addition to minimum 1/4" steel plate on ALL sides, not just the door. Many times even thicker, up to 1" or more of solid steel all around.

But these aren't your run-of-the-mill brand name safes that you most often hear. These are safes like:

Graffunder

American Security

Brown Safe

Just to name a few.

I'm not trying to knock any safes that people buy, but this is a perfect example of why people should be aware of what it is they are actually buying when they buy a safe. Most of the brand name safes that people know about are fine for smash and grab jobs, or very light fire, but nothing more. If you want to keep any semi-smart burglar or a real fire from stealing/damaging your valuable firearm collection, you better start looking at real UL listed safes.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:38:05 AM EDT

[#44]

I’m not certain if the rust on the weapons is from moisture after the fire or has been caused by the smoke of the fire.

My house caught on fire about 10 years ago. We all got out safely, but the second floor, which contained my gun safe, was destroyed.

My insurance adjuster was over within about 4 hours of the fire which occurred c. 0400. He told me that the smoke would rust my firearms. All of my weapons needed to be completely stripped down and oiled. Since I was going to be living in a hotel for a while and had no way to secure the weapons. I took them to a gun store and paid the gunsmith to care for them and store them until my house was rebuilt. My insurance company paid for every dime of the cleaning and storage.

It is obvious that the heat damaged the stocks, but the metalwork may have been saved if it had been immediately cared for. And maybe not. I’m just saying.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:41:23 AM EDT

[#45]

<DarthVader>NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!</DarthVader>

Poor guy. Perfectly good firearms. Luckily, those look like they'll be pretty easy to replace.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:42:05 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
If one truly has high dollar guns in a safe it might be worth it to invest in one of those home sprinkler systems and if nothing else just set it up around the safe.
Or move the safe someplace wheres theres not much "house", such as in the garage. I'm sure keeping a safe in the basement then having the whole house burn down into the basement would really cook a safe.

Outer wall of the garage, away from the main body of the house. And it ought to be quite easy to add plumbing to the washing machine supply line to put a fire sprinkler head right over it.

http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/citizens/all_citizens/home_fire_prev/sprinklers/

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:45:53 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If those were Glocks they'd still be fine.

Nah. They would have detonated and taken out the whole block.

i'm still laughing...

you guys mean to tell me this guy didnt have a halon or FM-200 system?

www.fireline.com/fc_supression.html

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:46:01 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
If those were Glocks they'd still be fine.

Well sure, 'cause the first detonation would have blown out the fire.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:47:37 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If the safe isn't in a decorative area of the house, how would it be to stand a 100-gallon water tank on top of the safe, so that at some point in the fire the tank would melt and douse the safe with water?

Total cost = <$100.

But it won't work. Take a styrofoam cup, fill it up with water and set it on the grill. Because the water will never get above 212 the styrofoam will never melt and the cup of water will just boil off. Try it, it makes a mess and the fumes are bad but it's worth it.

-JTP

Not accurate. You'r talking about an open cup, instead of a closed poly container. Not a meaningful comparison or negative proof.