I sent this to Sean Hannity at Fox News. Probably wont get much from it but you never know. He's probably the most likely of the big names in news to see the truth about things.

Considering the tragic events of today. The irony of this article in the Roanoke Times is amazing http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658 I think its sad that the powers that be have decided that law abiding citizens do not have the right to defend themselves. Just one trained person with a CCW could have drasticlty changed the outcome of this tragic event. The liberal left media is already screaming for more gun control and ignoring the fact that that taking away the rights of law abiding citizens does not make us safer, but makes us more vunerable to those that wish to do us harm. I hope Sean, that you will take these liberals to task when they come screaming and yelling for more government control in our lives. I think we have more than enough of that already. Choppahead Hampton, GA Gun bill gets shot down by panel HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee. By Greg Esposito  381-1675 A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly. House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws. The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session. Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus." Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, would not comment Monday because he was not part of the subcommittee that discussed the bill. Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun." The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs. Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus. In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities.

As promised.

In . . . AFTER the lock???

Quoted: In . . . AFTER the lock???

An arfcom first??

tag..after the lock.

IABTL

W00t!  New acronym.  In After Before The Lock.  

IATL

Life keeps hitting us with new things.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nugent to be on Glenn Beck in a couple minutes with his take.... That will be fun. I saw Nuge on some show, and he was good. Does this Glenn Beck fellow look like Paul Schaeffer? No I think that's someone named cafferty or gafferty Cafferty?  Thats the guy we were bombarding with e-mails yesterday! The bald guy was the substitute host for tonight.

Nuge kind of redeemed himself in my eyes in during the brief interview, he was very concise and to the point.  They actually let him speak too, the liberal douche had to wait until after Nuge spoke to chime in.

Nuge made the points that are essential to the arguement, he used facts and spoke in plain terms and he only said "upgraded" once.  So a big + for Nuge in my book.

I heard him talk about what you sent him this afternoon. Good job!!!!!

This will be interesting.

I'm I the only one who has given up on the MSM on this already? I just can't take their bleating anymore.

OST for thread 2

.

In after the lock and unlock.  

tag for second thread

Quoted: I'm I the only one who has given up on the MSM on this already? I just can't take their bleating anymore.

Nope. I got home last night from work at midnight, (12 hour shift so missed all the early TV coverage BUT I did manage to read every single page of the 72 page thread about the attack ), and watched the usual AAR's. I sat on the couch with my wife and after about 15 minutes of flipping the channels I was already sick of all the anti gun BS that was going on.

In AFTER The Lock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A first for me on ARF!!!!!!!


Ok...
I saw Ted and thought he did an excellent job tonight on Glenn Beck.

He cited many CCW life saving events like the mall shooting in Utah.

Ted did good things tonight.

PRESS RELEASE FROM S. AFRICA RE: VIRGINIA TECH SHOOTING RAMPAGE

   Subject: [SAFirearmForum] Press Release - Virginia Tech, USA Shooting Rampage
   Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:41:42 +0200 Status: Normal
   From: "Charl van Wyk"

   -----------------------------------------------------------------

   The murder of innocent victims is a disgrace and our condolences go out to those who have lost loved ones in the shooting rampage at Virginia Tech,
   USA.

   More than one year before yesterday's unprecedented shooting rampage at Virginia Tech, the state's General Assembly quashed a bill that would have given qualified college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus. Could one legally armed citizen have made a difference at this tragic event?

   We also need to ask the question: Do laws prohibiting firearms in certain places really prevent homicidal tragedies?

   There is a striking paradox associated with mass murders. They are far more likely to occur in areas that have been designated as gun-free zones.

   Worldwide, office buildings, hospitals, convenience stores, TV studios,chain restaurants and day-care centres, have all been targets of homicidal maniacs. Mass murders have taken place in such places after they have been declared gun-free zones.

   In 1999, John Lott and William Landes published a US study of multiple shooting incidents. They showed that mass shootings occur less often in areas where responsible citizens may carry weapons.

   Do mass shootings ever occur in police stations, shooting ranges or at gun shows? Mass murderers select soft targets for their acts of violence. Expecting a suicidal individual to honour a law prohibiting firearms, is sheer utopian fantasy.

   In Europe, 16 people were killed in a public school shooting in Germany in April 2002. Another two public shootings were the killing of 14 regional legislators in Zug, a Swiss Canton (Sept. 2001) and the massacre of eight city council members in a Paris suburb in March 2002.

   According to John R. Lott, Jr, all three of these European killing sprees had one thing in common: they took place in gun-free zones. Firearms surely make it easier to kill people, but firearms also make it easier for people to defend themselves.

   Declaring gun-free zones, risks leaving potential victims defenceless.

   In the US, thugs using firearms at elementary or secondary schools between 1997 and 2002 killed 32 students. The total includes gang fights, robberies, accidents and the so called: "school shootings." All these attacks took place in gun-free zones.

   In Israel, however, teachers and parents serving as school aids are armed at all times on school grounds, with semi-automatic weapons. Since this policy was adopted in the 1970's, attacks by gunmen at schools in Israel have ceased.

   Government officials must be aware that if they create a gun-free zone, they are liable for any harm it causes. Why would those in authority rather see law-abiding, disarmed citizens die, than risk armed citizens harming a criminal?

   With lives lost in Germany and the United States of America in schools which are gun-free zones, and no attacks by armed gunmen in Israel since teachers and parents serving as school aids have been armed, why would we want any
   area declared a gun-free zone?

   History and common sense prove that gun-free zones are dangerous.

   Charl van Wyk

   Gun Owners of South Africa
   PO Box 2522
   Clareinch
   7740
   South Africa
   www.gunownerssa.org

In before the next 100-page lock.

One of the victims is local...

How many colleges have ranges and shooting sports?

I know some of the community colleges in FL have shooting ranges.

tag

Today I was arguing with one of my friends who is a moderate. He's an asshole republican on economic issues and social issues, aka "Wall Street Journal" republican, but is a limp wristed wussy when it comes to guns. Doing a"scientific" study, he claimed that he did a regression analysis showing that looser gun laws results in more gun crimes (I laughed in his ignorant face).

Anyway, our debate got a little heated, and he said that gun control should be stricter, and I challenged him to make a system where the Korean shooter in this case could not have gotten a gun... and law abiding citizens could keep the spirit of the 2nd ammendment alive.

Is it possible? This guy was basically a inch away from becoming a full legal US Citizen, and had no prior history of criminal behavior or mental insanity... how could the gun law system be reworked in a way where he would have been filtered out, and the rights to the people not be completely compromised or left vulnerable to scuttling by the Bradyists.

Let's hear your thoughts.

Personally, I think that this guy could not have been filtered out without severely compromising the second amendment. Up until the moment he shot someone... he was a legal abiding legal permanent resident who may have been a little "weird" but there is no way to gauge something like that.

Quoted: How many colleges have ranges and shooting sports? I know some of the community colleges in FL have shooting ranges.

We have a national forest range near by.  Virginia Tech does have a shooting team.

Quoted: IATL

Quoted: He's an asshole republican on economic issues and social issues, aka "Wall Street Journal" republican, but is a limp wristed wussy when it comes to guns.

Yes, after one of these incidents is a good time to see how truly people around you believe in the spirit of the Second Amendment.  Remember, we're fighting against most of the mainstream media who would gladly put the responsibility for this massacre on the guns.

Quoted: How many colleges have ranges and shooting sports? I know some of the community colleges in FL have shooting ranges.

UVA has a pistol team, a rifle team, and a skeet/trap shooting team.

We also have an AWESOME shooting range in the basement of the building that houses the ROTC department...that has been locked for several years because guns are icky and scary and have no place on campus

The shooting teams have to practice at a nearby range.

Question:  why do people refer to such events as "tragedies"?  The term "tragedy" connotes an event that was unavoidable, like a natural disaster or a fire.  This was a deliberate violent act, a massacre.  To call it a "tragedy" is to try to relieve the perpetrator of responsibility for his actions.  The same thing irritated me right after 9/11...

Quoted: Question:  why do people refer to such events as "tragedies"?  The term "tragedy" connotes an event that was unavoidable, like a natural disaster or a fire.  This was a deliberate violent act, a massacre.  To call it a "tragedy" is to try to relieve the perpetrator of responsibility for his actions.  The same thing irritated me right after 9/11...

I think because to the people in the classroom, they had no way to avoid it, same as the folks in the WTC.

But to be realistic, the word tragedy is misused from a context point of view all over.

Like when people say "amazing" all the time, everything can't be "amazing"

I also hate it when people say "journey" when referring to each other in wedding vows.
They are not on a "journey", they are getting married.

IATU


(In After The Unlock)  

Quoted: How many colleges have ranges and shooting sports? I know some of the community colleges in FL have shooting ranges.

Hillsdale College in Hillsdale, MI does not yet have a shooting team, but they are constructing a sporting clays range on campus (that may or may not have rifle/pistol ranges).  There's no word yet on whether or not there will be any teams formed, but we students can hope.

Quoted: Today I was arguing with one of my friends who is a moderate. He's an asshole republican on economic issues and social issues, aka "Wall Street Journal" republican, but is a limp wristed wussy when it comes to guns. Doing a"scientific" study, he claimed that he did a regression analysis showing that looser gun laws results in more gun crimes (I laughed in his ignorant face). Anyway, our debate got a little heated, and he said that gun control should be stricter, and I challenged him to make a system where the Korean shooter in this case could not have gotten a gun... and law abiding citizens could keep the spirit of the 2nd ammendment alive. Is it possible? This guy was basically a inch away from becoming a full legal US Citizen, and had no prior history of criminal behavior or mental insanity... how could the gun law system be reworked in a way where he would have been filtered out, and the rights to the people not be completely compromised or left vulnerable to scuttling by the Bradyists. Let's hear your thoughts. Personally, I think that this guy could not have been filtered out without severely compromising the second amendment. Up until the moment he shot someone... he was a legal abiding legal permanent resident who may have been a little "weird" but there is no way to gauge something like that.

Personally, I'd rather see a law passed that said you had to be a full US citizen to get a gun if it meant no new AWB...

The problem here is that this guy was a fucking whack job.  Warning signs were ignored because administrators were afraid of lawsuits.  The ONLY solution that doesn't compromise the Second Amendment is to allow it to mean what it says.  More guns=less crime, no infringements on lawful citizens.  The price of liberty is eternal vigilance, that means law abiding folks can carry and if some degenerate violates the public trust they pay for it via well aimed return fire from an armed and responsible citizen.  Thats the price of living in a free society.  Being lined up and shot like a dirty dog because of fucked up laws that deprive you of your right to defend yourself is living under a tyranny of sorts.

I wonder if South Park will do anything with this. I hope not.

Quoted: The problem here is that this guy was a fucking whack job.  Warning signs were ignored because administrators were afraid of lawsuits.

You have no idea how true that is.

This kid was so nuts that his teachers and classmates were scared of him. The teachers referred him to counseling....

But did anyone call the cops and say "You know, this kid is really kind of scary. Maybe you guys should keep a close eye on him."

Nope.

Why not?

"Privacy" concerns.

Politically correct thinking infects every area of a university, including those areas charged with safety and security.

A law enforcement official who read Cho's note described it Tuesday as a typed, eight-page rant against rich kids and religion. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media. "You caused me to do this," the official quoted the note as saying. Cho indicated in his letter that the end was near and that there was a deed to be done, the official said. He also expressed disappointment in his own religion, and made several references to Christianity, the official said.

They really need to release the contents of this note to the public.

Quoted: Quoted: The problem here is that this guy was a fucking whack job.  Warning signs were ignored because administrators were afraid of lawsuits. You have no idea how true that is. This kid was so nuts that his teachers and classmates were scared of him. The teachers referred him to counseling.... But did anyone call the cops and say "You know, this kid is really kind of scary. Maybe you guys should keep a close eye on him." Nope. Why not? "Privacy" concerns. Politically correct thinking infects every area of a university, including those areas charged with safety and security.

Thing is, this is all in hindsight.

One of the first threads I ever posted at Arfcom was about how at my local gun store I saw this creepy, goth kid who was pale skinny, and looked just as weird as Brian Peppers (GIS if you dare). I said I, and the people in the gun store were unnerved by him, and that I thought he didn't deserve a firearm, and there needed to be more physchiatric evaluations for firearms purchases... To which I was promptly flamed as a being a troll.

"So only pretty looking people can buy guns"

"So the second ammendment should be infringed because of your 'gut feeling?'"

etc. etc.

This guy looked legit. There are probably a shit load of "weird looking" kids out there... can we just all ban them from ever buying guns because they are "weird"? Who's definition of weird? Who is going to judge them all? Everyone has differently subjective standards for "unusual" or "disturbing". Shit, some of my classmates thought the fact I had a M4gery in it of itself was "disturbing"...

You gotta keep in mind, these warning signs, as per the FBI are usually in hindsight for what they called "lone wolves"

Quoted: Quoted: How many colleges have ranges and shooting sports? I know some of the community colleges in FL have shooting ranges. UVA has a pistol team, a rifle team, and a skeet/trap shooting team. We also have an AWESOME shooting range in the basement of the building that houses the ROTC department...that has been locked for several years because guns are icky and scary and have no place on campus The shooting teams have to practice at a nearby range.

The ROTC building at the University of Missouri also had a shooting range in the basement, but the problem was lead. The air exchange system wasn't up to modern standards, so the room became a storage area. It is cheaper to go out and shoot at a public range than update the air handling system. I'll bet UVA has the same problem.

Page 2 of thread 2.

BigDozer66

New news:  VT Shooter was voluntarily commited back in 2005.

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266683,00.html

Police: Virginia Tech Gunman Accused of Stalking 2 Female Students in 2005
Wednesday, April 18, 2007

BLACKSBURG, Va. —

The gunman blamed for the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history had previously been accused of stalking two female students at Virginia Tech and had been taken to a mental health facility in 2005 after an acquaintance worried he might be suicidal, police said Wednesday.

Cho Seung-Hui had concerned one woman enough with his calls and e-mail in 2005 that police were called in, said Police Chief Wendell Flinchum.

......rest of story snipped

Unfortunately he didn't finish the job then.

Quoted: The ROTC building at the University of Missouri also had a shooting range in the basement, but the problem was lead. The air exchange system wasn't up to modern standards, so the room became a storage area. It is cheaper to go out and shoot at a public range than update the air handling system. I'll bet UVA has the same problem.

I used to shoot at the local police range which is open to the public on weekends and the air handling system is the size of a small truck.  It must have cost a fortune.  Even then you must shoot lead free or encapsulated bullets.

Quoted: New news:  VT Shooter was voluntarily commited back in 2005. www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266683,00.html Police: Virginia Tech Gunman Accused of Stalking 2 Female Students in 2005 Wednesday, April 18, 2007 BLACKSBURG, Va. — The gunman blamed for the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history had previously been accused of stalking two female students at Virginia Tech and had been taken to a mental health facility in 2005 after an acquaintance worried he might be suicidal, police said Wednesday. Cho Seung-Hui had concerned one woman enough with his calls and e-mail in 2005 that police were called in, said Police Chief Wendell Flinchum. ......rest of story snipped Unfortunately he didn't finish the job then.

Wouldn't that disqualify him from a legal purchase of a handgun?  Or is that for being involuntarily committed?

Quoted: The ROTC building at the University of Missouri also had a shooting range in the basement, but the problem was lead. The air exchange system wasn't up to modern standards, so the room became a storage area. It is cheaper to go out and shoot at a public range than update the air handling system. I'll bet UVA has the same problem.

 Which University of Missouri?  I went to the Rolla campus back in '97... the "gun range" I remember we had there could probably qualify; except for the fact that they wouldn't let us shoot real weapons on-campus and we had to do our marksmanship training with Olympic grade pellet guns.

Just in on CNN.

2 years ago Cho was declared mentally ill by a VA. Special Justice in a court order and was called an "Imminent danger to others".

Shit is gonna fly now. Why did they allow him to buy a gun? Does this kind of information not get passed on to NICS, or do they rely solely on the truthfulness of the applicant on the forms.

Quoted: Quoted: The ROTC building at the University of Missouri also had a shooting range in the basement, but the problem was lead. The air exchange system wasn't up to modern standards, so the room became a storage area. It is cheaper to go out and shoot at a public range than update the air handling system. I'll bet UVA has the same problem.  Which University of Missouri?  I went to the Rolla campus back in '97... the "gun range" I remember we had there could probably qualify; except for the fact that they wouldn't let us shoot real weapons on-campus and we had to do our marksmanship training with Olympic grade pellet guns.

The "real" University of Missouri. The "home" campus.