glad to see he isn't just a subject

I hope he wins.


Nothing worse with LEO who are drunk with their power.

Kid was right, but is a complete tool........


Cops did wrong, cops are cocks (it's the job that does it to them)................

Quoted: If he does go to court let's hope he doesn't start ranting about the gold fringed flag in the court room.

Yep because admiralty law is no joking matter.

The kids got his ducks lined up on his Rights. Good for him.

Doesn't mean there isn't an "oddness" about him

He needs to look up the term "good faith" and figure out what it is and how it applies to LE.


Douchebag.

Quoted: Quoted: Guess I'll be the bad guy here... I honestly don't believe that CRAP is coming from an 18 year old...  Home-schooled or not... If it is true, I'm sure the PD could use his posts on OC.Org and GlockTalk.  The fact that he admits he's looking to get hassled, talking about how he's showing them who's boss, etc.  I'd like to think the judge would at least take that into consideration... Oh yeah, because Post Falls PD totally has the resources and tech staff to track down what the kid does online and that he posts on a couple internet forums

Too late for him. I already emailed Post Falls PD his posts regarding his intentions.

They have more resources than they know.

I like the way he thinks but the law suit will not get him much. Especially with no attorney. I don't love that they took the gun apart but otherwise they are most likley operating under qualified immunity.

Quoted: I think it is AWESOME that his 15 year old brother rides his bike around town with a loaded 10/22 slung hover his shoulder. THAT is what America is all about.

Quoted: Just goes to show that there are to many uneducated cops that think they make the laws, alot of them are power mongers and it makes them feel like they have some god like power over people. I hope he sues the pants of those police officers. By the way I'm not saying all police officers are bad i have met more than a few who are honest defenders of the law.

Thanks nana.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Guess I'll be the bad guy here... I honestly don't believe that CRAP is coming from an 18 year old...  Home-schooled or not... If it is true, I'm sure the PD could use his posts on OC.Org and GlockTalk.  The fact that he admits he's looking to get hassled, talking about how he's showing them who's boss, etc.  I'd like to think the judge would at least take that into consideration... Oh yeah, because Post Falls PD totally has the resources and tech staff to track down what the kid does online and that he posts on a couple internet forums Too late for him. I already emailed Post Falls PD his posts regarding his intentions. They have more resources than they know.

YOU are a fucking tool

Quoted:

Bwah, wah, wah. Let me go tell my mommy.

Quoted: I would see if the cameras in the car(s) were rolling for the cops and try to get those put into public record as part of his defense.

Police cameras are very unreliable.  Regardless of how much the taxpayers shell out for high quality gear, they malfunction any time it would be of benefit to the citizen.

Fascinating story.

Quoted: IMHO, those of you who are complaining that he is carrying in open view are IDIOTS & are destined to become subjects of the gov. I don't care if the kid was walking around w/ cross holstered 6 shooters & a tassled bullet belt.  It's legal and your right as an American.  Like the saying, a right not excercised is a right lost. Speak up & quit hiding the fact that you're a gun toting conservative American!  Pansy chicken littles. -robert

+1

Quoted: Quoted: I think it is AWESOME that his 15 year old brother rides his bike around town with a loaded 10/22 slung hover his shoulder. THAT is what America is all about.

Gee, I wonder what profession you are?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Guess I'll be the bad guy here... I honestly don't believe that CRAP is coming from an 18 year old...  Home-schooled or not... If it is true, I'm sure the PD could use his posts on OC.Org and GlockTalk.  The fact that he admits he's looking to get hassled, talking about how he's showing them who's boss, etc.  I'd like to think the judge would at least take that into consideration... Oh yeah, because Post Falls PD totally has the resources and tech staff to track down what the kid does online and that he posts on a couple internet forums Too late for him. I already emailed Post Falls PD his posts regarding his intentions. They have more resources than they know. YOU are a fucking tool

I was just about to do the same thing...  Tools we may be, but it doesn't affect you, deal with it...

Good job hitnrun!

Well written, but he is wrong on a couple of his facts, particuluarly these:

After about 15 minutes of going no where with discussion I politely informed them that detaining me was in fact an arrest and required probable cause. They contended that mere reasonable suspicion was sufficient, and I rebutted their contention by explaining that reasonable suspicion is grounds for arrest only in felonies. To make an arrest in misdemeanor cases, the officer must be an eyewitness to the crime, or have probable cause, supported by an oath of affirmation.

Reasonable suspicion is never the standard to make an arrest.  Probable cause is needed for both misdemeanor arrests and felonies.  The major difference between the two are that an officer can make a warrantless arrest for a felony not committed in his presence as long as there is PC.  Misdemeanors (there are exceptions in some states for certain crimes) must be witnessed by the officer before he can make a warrantless arrest.

Reasonable suspicion is required for a Terry stop, which is what the officers did.  The SC has ruled that officers can stop you and perform an investigative detention for about 20 minutes or so.  This detention under reasonable suspicion is not an arrest.  If circumstances warrant it, you can even be handcuffed and moved a short distance during these types of detentions without it becoming an arrest.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's from a kid that's 18 years old?  Holy shit.  I've almost never seen such eloquent and correct writing from a teenager!  And he was VERY knowledgeable! Kudos to him! Most homeschoolers are. some are just weird

As are many in government schools.

How does open carry work with a "suit and tie"? Tuck your coat in your pants?

Help me paint a picture here......

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Guess I'll be the bad guy here... I honestly don't believe that CRAP is coming from an 18 year old...  Home-schooled or not... If it is true, I'm sure the PD could use his posts on OC.Org and GlockTalk.  The fact that he admits he's looking to get hassled, talking about how he's showing them who's boss, etc.  I'd like to think the judge would at least take that into consideration... Oh yeah, because Post Falls PD totally has the resources and tech staff to track down what the kid does online and that he posts on a couple internet forums Too late for him. I already emailed Post Falls PD his posts regarding his intentions. They have more resources than they know. YOU are a fucking tool

Nah, probably pissed he didn't get to NOLA and confiscate a few.

Quoted: Well written, but he is wrong on a couple of his facts, particuluarly these: After about 15 minutes of going no where with discussion I politely informed them that detaining me was in fact an arrest and required probable cause. They contended that mere reasonable suspicion was sufficient, and I rebutted their contention by explaining that reasonable suspicion is grounds for arrest only in felonies. To make an arrest in misdemeanor cases, the officer must be an eyewitness to the crime, or have probable cause, supported by an oath of affirmation. Reasonable suspicion is never the standard to make an arrest.  Probable cause is needed for both misdemeanor arrests and felonies.  The major difference between the two are that an officer can make a warrantless arrest for a felony not committed in his presence as long as there is PC.  Misdemeanors (there are exceptions in some states for certain crimes) must be witnessed by the officer before he can make a warrantless arrest. Reasonable suspicion is required for a Terry stop, which is what the officers did.  The SC has ruled that officers can stop you and perform an investigative detention for about 20 minutes or so.  This detention under reasonable suspicion is not an arrest.  If circumstances warrant it, you can even be handcuffed and moved a short distance during these types of detentions without it becoming an arrest.

That, and plust the fact that he's so knowledgable on constitutional law, Idaho State Law, laws of arrest, but "didn't know" his own SSN.   And, being 18 years old, he could easily be mistaken for younger than that.   I coulnd't blame the officers for digging deeper and confirming his age.   Especailly if he's being a little smart ass.

I don't think he is as smart as he thinks he is, and it will probably get his ass in trouble someday.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Guess I'll be the bad guy here... I honestly don't believe that CRAP is coming from an 18 year old...  Home-schooled or not... If it is true, I'm sure the PD could use his posts on OC.Org and GlockTalk.  The fact that he admits he's looking to get hassled, talking about how he's showing them who's boss, etc.  I'd like to think the judge would at least take that into consideration... Oh yeah, because Post Falls PD totally has the resources and tech staff to track down what the kid does online and that he posts on a couple internet forums Too late for him. I already emailed Post Falls PD his posts regarding his intentions. They have more resources than they know.

What a nice friend of the Second Amendment you ain't!

Also what a ............... never mind you aren't worth my membership.

Quoted: How does open carry work with a "suit and tie"? Tuck your coat in your pants? Help me paint a picture here......

Thigh rig?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Guess I'll be the bad guy here... I honestly don't believe that CRAP is coming from an 18 year old...  Home-schooled or not... If it is true, I'm sure the PD could use his posts on OC.Org and GlockTalk.  The fact that he admits he's looking to get hassled, talking about how he's showing them who's boss, etc.  I'd like to think the judge would at least take that into consideration... Oh yeah, because Post Falls PD totally has the resources and tech staff to track down what the kid does online and that he posts on a couple internet forums Too late for him. I already emailed Post Falls PD his posts regarding his intentions. They have more resources than they know.

First, please make sure you stay in California, your kind is not welcome in TX.

Secondly, even if his intention was to do what he did, he has that right.  Many protesters go to a protest with the intention to be arrested to force an issue.  And sue to win their case.

Glad to know we have people like you to support our gun rights.

TXL

Quoted: Well i think  he is wrong on the ID thing, Hilbel has superceded KOLENDER v. LAWSON, 461 U.S. 352 (1983). Moot point though if Idaho is not a ID state.

Actually it hasn't superceded it - they actually work hand-in-hand. Each of them deals with a different aspect of identification.

This Idaho kid did identify himself, just not to the satisfaction of the officers, thus his reference to them about Kolender v. Lawson.

The Hiibel ruling was that you HAVE TO identify yourself to police, Kolender ruling dealt with how "credible and reliable" that identification was.

In the Hiibel case, Petitioner Hiibel was arrested and convicted in a Nevada court for refusing to identify himself to a police officer during an investigative stop involving a reported assault. Nevada’s “stop and identify” statute requires a person detained by an officer under suspicious circumstances to identify himself. The statute was upheld by SCOTUS.

The Kolender case was not so much focused on requiring one to identify himself to police, but rather that statute required that the individual provide a "credible and reliable" identification that carries a "reasonable assurance" of its authenticity, and that provides "means for later getting in touch with the person who has identified himself." The asking officer was then making the final determination as to whether he was satisfied w/ the identification. SCOTUS found California's ID law was found do be unconstitutionally vague.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Guess I'll be the bad guy here... I honestly don't believe that CRAP is coming from an 18 year old...  Home-schooled or not... If it is true, I'm sure the PD could use his posts on OC.Org and GlockTalk.  The fact that he admits he's looking to get hassled, talking about how he's showing them who's boss, etc.  I'd like to think the judge would at least take that into consideration... Oh yeah, because Post Falls PD totally has the resources and tech staff to track down what the kid does online and that he posts on a couple internet forums Too late for him. I already emailed Post Falls PD his posts regarding his intentions. They have more resources than they know. YOU are a fucking tool

+ a billion

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Guess I'll be the bad guy here... I honestly don't believe that CRAP is coming from an 18 year old...  Home-schooled or not... If it is true, I'm sure the PD could use his posts on OC.Org and GlockTalk.  The fact that he admits he's looking to get hassled, talking about how he's showing them who's boss, etc.  I'd like to think the judge would at least take that into consideration... Oh yeah, because Post Falls PD totally has the resources and tech staff to track down what the kid does online and that he posts on a couple internet forums Too late for him. I already emailed Post Falls PD his posts regarding his intentions. They have more resources than they know. YOU are a fucking tool + a billion

Yeah, that was pretty FUCKING STUPID.

Mind your own fucking business.  You were probably the little shit tattletale when you were younger.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Guess I'll be the bad guy here... I honestly don't believe that CRAP is coming from an 18 year old...  Home-schooled or not... If it is true, I'm sure the PD could use his posts on OC.Org and GlockTalk.  The fact that he admits he's looking to get hassled, talking about how he's showing them who's boss, etc.  I'd like to think the judge would at least take that into consideration... Oh yeah, because Post Falls PD totally has the resources and tech staff to track down what the kid does online and that he posts on a couple internet forums Too late for him. I already emailed Post Falls PD his posts regarding his intentions. They have more resources than they know. First, please make sure you stay in California, your kind is not welcome in TX. Secondly, even if his intention was to do what he did, he has that right.  Many protesters go to a protest with the intention to be arrested to force an issue.  And sue to win their case. Glad to know we have people like you to support our gun rights. TXL

He has his right to publicly make accusations. The PD has the same right to know what is publicly being said about their reputation and the conduct of there officers, etc.


Call me what you want. I'll try not to lose sleep over it.


You guys are quick to defend the underdog or potential martyr for your flavor of the day 'issue'. However, you are just as quick to condemn those that oppose it. You believe (or so you say) in due process, yet you don't practice it. What you practice is hypocrisy. You see one side of a story that you identify with and you take it blindly as fact and support it. You see the other side, the one that you oppose, and condemn it and wish it away because it doesn't support your cause or whatever. It's okay, I really don't expect anything less from you. It is ARFCOM after all.

It seems pretty obvious the type of environment most people were raised in, just by reading their posts in this thread.  Quick glance at the Posters' home states is a quick confirmation of my guesses so far.

Good job Zach Doty!!

18 y.o. kid knowing his rights and stating them eloquently, and not losing his cool, very impressive.

Folks in this thread calling him names for open carrying, sad.

Forwarding his posts to the PD, un-freaking-believeable.

ETA: fuck, I misspelled "losing" again and got quoted!

Quoted: He has his right to publicly make accusations. The PD has the same right to know what is publicly being said about their reputation and the conduct of there officers, etc. Call me what you want. I'll try not to lose sleep over it.

Okay, I'll call you a "bad cop".

You appear to be one of those "bad cops" who will stand behind your own, right or wrong.

You are one of those "bad cops" who give the profession a bad name.

This thread is going to be locked pretty fast, because this is not a grey area.
You either side with the law, and what is right.
Or you side with the police that screwed up.

Quoted: Quoted: He has his right to publicly make accusations. The PD has the same right to know what is publicly being said about their reputation and the conduct of there officers, etc. Call me what you want. I'll try not to lose sleep over it. Okay, I'll call you a "bad cop". You appear to be one of those "bad cops" who will stand behind your own, right or wrong. You are one of those "bad cops" who give the profession a bad name. This thread is going to be locked pretty fast, because this is not a grey area. You either side with the law, and what is right. Or you side with the police that screwed up.

If I don't agree with you or this kid, I'm a bad cop?

I appear to be a bad cop because I believe that the accused have a right to know about what is being said about them???

You don't...or just when it doesn't benefit you?

You make it sound like you were there. This kid could have fabricated the whole thing, but you 'adults' have such a hard on to stick it to the man, you're all blathering on trying to sound important and mean something. You don't.

Pick and choose your battles gentleman. There are bigger fights than internet airsoft wannabe human rights warriors.

He has NO case.

And I wouldn't use him as a bench mark of legal advice.

Quoted: The kids got his ducks lined up on his Rights. Good for him. Doesn't mean there isn't an "oddness" about him

That kid is a huge tool.

Disappointing, really.

Note for those who don't want to click the link:  He's a GEOCENTRIST.   Hello, 16th Century calling?

Pick and choose your battles gentleman. There are bigger fights than internet airsoft wannabe human rights warriors.

Yup, so why are you even getting involved by emailing the posts to them?


Hence- "tool"

I am not backing either side cause as of right now I don't know if any of this even happend, I just find it funny that you took it upon yourself to email the PD the posts and then give out a lecture here.

Quoted: Pick and choose your battles gentleman. There are bigger fights than internet airsoft wannabe human rights warriors. Yup, so why are you even getting involved my emailing the posts to them? Hence- "tool" I am not backing either side cause as of right now I don't know if any of this even happend, I just find it funny that you took it upon yourself to email the PD the posts and then give out a lecture here.

Cause I think it's funnier than shit to watch some of these guys on here flip out.

Quoted: And why should he have to carry ID at all times?  Hes just going to church and back home.  I wasnt aware it was necessary to carry ID at all times in America.

Any time I carry my CCW, I have to have two forms of ID.  Would/should that be different if I chose to open carry?  You KNOW you are going to get stopped and questioned by the police...  Why not CYA and carry your ID?  


You can 'gift' a pistol to an 18 year old.  Not sure about FTF, the guy trying to sell me two SIGs back in the day looked a little ATF-ish for me to try.    (I keep kicking myself over missing out on the sweet deal $550 OTD for two matching P226s)

Quoted: He has NO case. And I wouldn't use him as a bench mark of legal advice.

Educate us.  

Quoted: Any time I carry my CCW, I have to have two forms of ID.  Would/should that be different if I chose to open carry?  You KNOW you are going to get stopped and questioned by the police...  Why not CYA and carry your ID?

Did you read any of the thread? He talked about this several times. Whether he is right about the law or not, he did talk about this in depth.

Stoolies...turds....all the same

Quoted:

www.metrokids.com/august06/tattling0806.html


Tattling Versus Telling
The difference can be keeping someone out of trouble rather than getting him into trouble.

by June Portnoy

Nobody likes a tattletale, but not everyone who tells on someone is tattling. It’s one thing when your child repeatedly tattles that his sibling is picking his nose, but it’s a completely different issue when he tells you that his sibling is playing with fire or that someone at school is trying to hurt him.

It’s up to you to help your child understand when it’s appropriate to report about someone else’s behavior and when she should try to handle the situation herself.

Why Young Kids Tattle
“Tattling is a typical behavior for toddlers and preschoolers,” says Lori Listug-Lunde, PhD, a licensed psychologist and psychology fellow at A.I. duPont Hospital for Children in Wilmington, DE, “They are learning social skills and often don’t know how to handle a problem on their own. They often need help sorting out what is important to tell an adult versus what they should handle on their own.”

“Some researchers believe that tattling at a young age might be related to children’s emerging moral sense,” says Lisa Liner, MD, a pediatrician at Virtua West Jersey Hospital in Voorhees, NJ. “When children see someone violate a rule that they just learned, they want that rule enforced.”

“Sibling rivalry and the need for attention can be additional reasons that children tattle,” says Dr. Listug-Lunde.

Why Older Kids Tattle
“Tattling is less common in middle school and high school age children,” says Dr. Listug-Lunde. “By this age, kids often have a better sense of what is tattling (telling on someone to get them into trouble) versus reporting (telling about something to help someone keep out of trouble).

However, older children who have difficulty with social problem-solving might be more likely to tattle.”

“Tattling has some complex motivations because it appeals to some standard of behavior and results in punishment to the offending child,” says Daniel Hart, EdD, director of the Center for Children and Childhood Studies at Rutgers-Camden.

“To some extent, kids like to tattle because they want to get back at someone and get them in trouble with an adult,” says Dr. Hart. “This way they can hurt the other child at a low cost to them, instead of directly harming him. This is more common of older kids who need the forethought to think about the consequences of their tattling.”

“Sometimes kids tattle because someone is doing something verbally or physically to make them uncomfortable,” says Nathan Blum, MD, developmental and behavioral pediatrician at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. “Telling on others can be a way kids protect themselves.”

When Little Kids Tattle
“You will not be able to prevent tattling altogether,” advises Dr. Listug-Lunde. “It is a typical behavior for youngsters and you should expect small amounts of tattling.” However, there are some tips you can follow to manage tattling.

“Since younger kids typically tattle about rules being broken, help them learn when it is appropriate to tell an adult about what has happened,” says Dr. Blum.

“If a child violates a minor rule that doesn’t affect anyone else, ignore the child who is tattling and do not act on the information.” If you yell or punish the other child, you will just reinforce the tattling behavior.

“However, if a clear rule is violated or a behavior adversely affects another child, you must enforce it,” adds Dr. Blum. “If you don’t have a rule for that situation, create one that you can enforce every time the rule is broken.

“If you repeatedly have to respond to the same child tattling on his sibling or another child, monitor the situation yourself. You shouldn’t have to rely on your five-year-old son to tell you what’s going on.”

“Consider these early tattles as opportunities to help teach your kids how to problem-solve and to figure out what situations they might be able to handle on their own, while reassuring them that you are there to help them out,” says Dr. Liner.

“Model appropriate telling behaviors,” says Dr. Listug-Lunde. “If you’re gossiping with friends, your child might interpret it as tattling, so be sure to model how you want your children to talk to their peers.”

“Since tattling is often a way for youngsters to gain attention, spending positive time with your child will decrease her use of tattling as a means of gaining attention,” adds Dr. Listug-Lunde. “When you have multiple children, find some individual time (even if very brief) to spend with each child daily.”

When Older Kids Tattle
“If your older children are repeatedly tattling, there is often some kind of problem that must be addressed,” says Dr. Blum. “When tattling appears to be a sign of distress, it should not be ignored. In this case, you must respond to your children. Ignoring their pleas for help could potentially make them feel isolated, ultimately causing others to just label them as a tattletales.”

“If your child is trying to help and is really concerned about someone, listen to his concerns and figure out what is the best thing for you or him to do,” says Dr. Listug-Lunde. “If it is something you think he can handle, help him come up with a solution. If you think you need to handle it, let him know you will help this person out. At times, it might work to bring the two kids (especially siblings) together and help them problem-solve the situation.”

“When your child is tattling with the purpose of getting someone else in trouble, talk to your child about how the conflict could be solved differently,” says Dr. Hart. “Help your child develop more constructive solutions. Teach her to resolve the conflict directly with the child instead of running to an adult.”

“Set up ways for your child to report on the positive behavior of others,” suggests Dr. Listug-Lunde. “For example, your child could earn points or praise for reporting times when his sibling helped him out or did something good. This might help to turn the tide of negativity.”

Bullying at School
If bullying is involved, kids should be encouraged to tell. “It is common for older children and teens to be teased at school,” says Dr. Blum. “However, if your child is being threatened or bullied, this is no longer a benign experience and you need to intervene.”

Dr. Blum suggests talking to your child’s teacher or the school counselor to ensure an adult is monitoring your child. This is especially important in high-risk places where there is little adult supervision, such as at recess or on the bus. In these cases, the recess teacher or bus driver might be the one who needs to participate in planning the intervention.

Regardless of how old your child is, remember that the next time you think he is tattling, take a minute to listen to what he has to say. He might be reporting something important that could have serious consequences for him or another child.

Quoted: 18 y.o. kid knowing his rights and stating them eloquently, and not loosing his cool, very impressive. Folks in this thread calling him names for open carrying, sad. Forwarding his posts to the PD, un-freaking-believeable.

+1

Quoted: Quoted: 18 y.o. kid knowing his rights and stating them eloquently, and not loosing his cool, very impressive. Folks in this thread calling him names for open carrying, sad. Forwarding his posts to the PD, un-freaking-believeable. +1

+1Billion.  I live here in Idaho, so I am watching this intently.  (If the story is correct) The kid is 100% legal.  PD was in the wrong (I'm testing to be a State Trooper, I am NOT anti-LE).  Hitnrun wouldn't be pissed if a cop stopped him, confiscated his (legal) handgun, took the whole thing apart and left it in the back of his patrol car while detaining you because your walking down the road without your freaking ID?

Unbelievable.

ETA - IBTL

Quoted: Quoted: He has NO case. And I wouldn't use him as a bench mark of legal advice. Educate us.

He was detained as part of an investigatory stop and released after determining no crime had been committed. He has no case.

Tagged....

The 'tools' posting on this are not worth my member ship....As has been stated already, stay in Kalifornia.


Sheesh, and people wonder why there is so much distrust with some LEO's, they bring it on themselves...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He has NO case. And I wouldn't use him as a bench mark of legal advice. Educate us.   He was detained as part of an investigatory stop and released after determining no crime had been committed. He has no case.

So if the story went down like the kid said, there is no wrong-doing (in your eyes) by the PD?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He has NO case. And I wouldn't use him as a bench mark of legal advice. Educate us.   He was detained as part of an investigatory stop and released after determining no crime had been committed. He has no case. So if the story went down like the kid said, there is no wrong-doing (in your eyes) by the PD?

Nope. Not unless there is something else that I missed.

Wow, I think Hitnrun has stolen the spotlight from A-rock with that one.

Quoted: How does open carry work with a "suit and tie"? Tuck your coat in your pants? Help me paint a picture here......

Tactical thigh rig