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We watched that video over and over while I was going through training. It is still is hard for me to watch. God rest his soul.
It's tragic, but without videos like that are extremely valuable in teaching officers use of force. |
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Saw it in training too.
Hope the family never saw it. Very hard to watch. |
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Go to the ODMP website, check out his "reflections" posts. There are some there from co-workers, his wife and dad. |
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That was a hard video to watch. I try to watch it a couple times a year, it keeps me VERY motivated to train. The screams from the deputy are horrifying.
RIP |
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That is the worst thing I have ever seen or heard...
Why did the officer not fire sooner? |
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Isn't that the video where he kept telling the guy with the gun "SIR DROP THE GUN"?
If so, that was a damn sad video and boils my blood everytime I see it. If I recall correctly, it was a .22 that went through the side of his armpit into his heart. |
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I thought it was an M1 Carbine. I remember him taking a few rounds to extremities and then the suspect shot him through one of his eyes. |
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Yep...M1 Carbine. The shooter was a wack job Vietnam Vet, who knew how to handle a rifle. |
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never saw it. never heard of it. i am sick with saddness. geez.
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Damn, he was way to nice to that POS. A pregnant wife and 22 month old daughter.
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Damn.....Should have dropped him at the first sign of a weapon, jackass was already combative.
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Yup, How many times does a cop have to yell put the gun down before he can shoot? I'm pretty sure it's way less than the many times he did yell it. |
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It is very hard to not armchair quaterback his decisions but Jesus..he should have shot him after his 3rd warning.
We are mandated to give a verbal warning if time permits. 3 is our accepted number of times. I hope all the LEO bashers that constantly criticize police for being trigger happy watch this! |
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That is a hard video to watch. I am not in law enforcement but am trying to become a cop or corrections officer. They should bring back the firing squad to kill people like this.
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Rest in peace Deputy Dinkheller.
Did anyone else feel like reaching through the screen and popping the accused's head off his shoulders like the festering zit of society that he is/was? |
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I use this video in my training, along with the video of Constable Daryl Lunsford.
I use it to reinforce the fact that if you have pulled your weapon, then there should be no question about whether or not use of lethal force is authorized. If you are going to pull the gun, be prepared to do the deed, do not wait until the threat engages you first. I hate saying this kind of shit and picking over the tactics of a fallen brother, but it has to be done. Rest in Peace, Brother. Sheep |
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rest in peace. It really reminds me of th S.C. trooper Mark Coates video. I Have used that one for training officers.
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Tell me that f*cker has been put to death already... please. PLEASE tell me he's already in hell. Ther's no way ANYONE could appeal that sentence, right?
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I wonder if the fact that he knew he was being video taped made him hesitate to shoot?
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had to sit thru it a second time a month ago..........................................damn that's hard to watch
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Legally? None. Policies on the matter may vary. An LAPD SWAT officer (retired) was telling me that when he saw guys going through some of the simulations in the selection process, a LOT of guys were weeded out by one scenario in particular. The video screen showed a man standing over a uniformed officer, shooting him where he lay. The ONLY correct response was to immediately fire on the perpetrator. The next shot may be the fatal shot, but some officers attempted to get the suspect to drop the weapon and surrender. |
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I think even if he wasnt shooting and just pointing the gun you would be more than justified to use deadly force. |
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that made me sick.. to think that pos could do that, i hope his ass get's the chair. i feel for that officers family.. rest in peace deputy
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i forget how many times i watched that vid. still want to cry/shout/shoot at tv.
I pray for his family. His Dad said it best in the Line of Duty training tape I saw. Not a quote, but he(the dad) wanted other officers to learn/train from this video. Think of all the officers that his life as reached. When those officers are confronted with similar, to exact, circumstances they know what will happen and what needs to be done. his sacrifice was not in vain if we learn from it. Peace brother |
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I have seen that video more times than I care to remember. By far, it is the hardest "officer down" footage for me to watch.
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Has anyones dept better refined their policy in regards to deadly force as a result of this?
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I saw that a little while back, checking my e-mail one morning, with no prep on what was about to unfold.
Not a thing to see or hear before your coffee kicks in. We have had similar scenarios in the regular and mandatory sims training. We occasionally get comments from the whiners and victims that "that isn't realistic," "We aren't going to run into suspects with long guns and training" and so on. This tape shows why they are wrong. Read the lesson plan that goes with this. The deputy had TWO physical altercations with the suspect before he returned to his pickup, retrieved the M1 carbine, and loaded it. The phrase "Why aren't you stomping Private Pyle's guts out?" comes to mind. The deputy had about 20 seconds after we know he recognized there was a firearm and the time when shots were exchanged. WHy didn't he shoot sooner? I think his training may have been inadequate. His marksmanship wasn't good enough, either, and if he would have closed with the suspect when he fled the first time, the rounds could have been delivered at "can't miss" range. I think a lot of this boils down to training. Nobody had ever trained this deputy to shoot first, to engage thrests rapidly, or to fight someone with superior tactics, equipment and willpower. This was so far outside of his realm of experience that he locked up, when into panic breathing and his own stress-related default mode, which was loud, shaky verbal commands. He wasn't mentally prepared for the stress of this type of encounter. He needed a couple days of sims with this and other high-stress encounters to make this sort of thing as familiar as it can get without being in a real gunfight. Every officer should have some high-stress training, and it should include: -Discharging a firearm at another, real human being (sims or even dry fire) -Shooting a bad guy FIRST -Getting hit and returning fire (again simuntions is the best way to do this) -Shooting a bad guy in the back/shooting a fleeing felon -Going up against bad guys who have armor/drugs, better weapons, better tactics and who will not go down when hit (at least outside of CNS shots) -Hostage situations, particularly officer hostage situations (and there is only one correct response to any of those) If you don't train folks for the extremes, then they won't be ready for them (or even the lesser ones) when they happen. |
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Huh?? A perp. with an ounce of marijuana in his pocket running away needs shooting? |
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Dumbass, you know EXACTLY what he meant, but any chance for a troll, right? |
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Reading is fundamental. Felon. Violent felons. For ****sakes. |
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Did you sign up here just to say that? You're a big boy now huh? God bless the fallen deputy. It looks like he had many chances to end the confrontation before it even came to shots being fired. That being said I wasn't there and have no idea how it truly went down. Very very sad. |
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Have you not seen the scrutiny we receive for just tazing someone...this country is scaring us to death...literally |
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I haven't seen it in awhile and didn't watch it again before posting, so going from memory.. It was said that in one of the altercations, the last, the deputy struck the perp with his asp knocking him to the ground. As the perp goes back to the truck to get the M1 the deputy comes into view and appears to have the asp in his hand raised above shoulder. I believe this is when the counter starts and the deputy begins to issue the commands to drop the gun. It appears the deputy knows a threat is imminent as it seems he has moved to the other side of his vehicle for cover. The actions of the perp show that he has been there, done that. During his interview the perp used the terms "suppressive fire" or "laying fields of fire" or something to the effect. IIRC the perp also stated that if the deputy had ordered him to get on the ground or had upped the level of force he might not have escalated the attack. IIRC the perp mentioned he knew he had the upper hand in the confrontation. Again, IIRC, the friends/family/coworkers interviewed said the deputy would give every one the benefit of the doubt, perhaps to the extreme. IIRC the perp fired 27 times (w/reload) and hit the deputy 10 times (extemities + fatal wound). The deputy fired over 30 hitting the perp once. natez hit it on the head. RIP Dinkheller. |
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Glock_10mm, stop being an asshole. If you bothered to read the thread and watch the video, you know EXACTLY what was intended by the comment you responded to. Obviously, you're not LEO or you would realize that when a reference to a fleeing felon is made the Tenn v Garner ruling is applied as far as armed and deadly subjects. Go lotion up and stop trolling, this business is serious. If you don't have a legitimate remark or question to ask in reference to the totality of the threads intent then go take your meds. End. Will not comment on any more of your comments on any thread. You have just made yourself irrelevant.
I will be using this video in training. God Bless the fallen officer and his family but, damn! The mistakes he made are not uncommon. The hesitation to shoot is a human reaction of not wanting to take a life. He apparently panicked, again, not uncommon. His trainers and admin should have to watch this video every morning, first thing when they poor their coffee and sit on their asses. They should have to watch it every time they turn down a request for more, indepth training. They should have to watch it everytime someone asks for ammo to practice with and they start thinking of the money instead of their officers. Every patrollman should have to watch it everytime they fail to qualify or question the need for extensive weapons training. If you see a deadly weapon and they fail to comply with the order, you SHOOT. This idea of waiting until they level the weapon on you or someone else places you well behind the curve and puts you or the people you've sworn to protect at risk to be shot / killed. |
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Let me clarify... There are many situations where officers have not just the authority but the DUTY to shoot a fleeing felon in the back. Many never even think of that, though, until you place them in a training situation where the right thing to do is to shoot a fleeing violent felony suspect in the back. A quick and dirty training scenario we use with Simunitions is: The officer sees two people arguing. As he approaches, person #1 draws a handgun and shoots person #2, who falls and hits the ground, and person#1 turns and runs away. The correct response is the shoot person #1 in the back. We run that as a sims scenario every now and then. I have yet to see anyone prevent the shooting of the innocent person, but most manage to get a few rounds into the fleeing felon, once they understand that is the correct action. It is all about training folks out of their "perceived" notions of fair play and Hollywood rubbish and doing the correct, legal, moral and ethical things necessary to survive and do their job. Another good one is confronting an armed bank robber as he flees the bank. The bank robber sees the officers, and turns to run back into the back. Watcha gonna do? Let him get back inside and take hostages? Heck no. |
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LEOs:
I will point you to the lesson plan and guide to the vid in PDF format if anyone is interested. IM me. NorCal |
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Wow, that's hard to watch. I've never seen that one before. I had heard about it, but never actually seen it.
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