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Link Posted: 4/3/2024 1:59:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs] [#1]
Link Posted: 4/3/2024 4:22:53 PM EDT
[#2]
I REALLY like this strain of Zoysia so I don't really want to change it out.  Maybe I'm going to be setting aside money each month to add another handful of rolls as I go along every month. It will be a long process, but it sounds like it is going to be much shorter than waiting for it to grow naturally.

Part of the challenge I have is that my wife likes this grass and hates pretty much all other heat tolerant grasses.  

Y'all have given me some good info and input.  Thanks. It really is appreciated.

I'll keep asking questions as I go along for sure.
Link Posted: 4/4/2024 6:34:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 4/6/2024 11:34:54 AM EDT
[#4]
A week in and I have roots!


I watched that video from LCN so I had to check.  It is really nice to see this stuff setting in for the long haul.  It does look greener now then it did when I unrolled it and the blades are certainly perking up. :)

Progress.
Link Posted: 4/6/2024 11:40:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs] [#5]
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 1:06:05 AM EDT
[#6]
Pic I took a few days ago looking across lawn into neighbors property who don't do anything but cut every week.  Other side of property is field like so all the undesirable seeds blow in.  Can you say weed pressure.  West central OH to give a perspective on the zone I am in.



Very happy so far with application of Stonewall .037% 13-0-0 non slow release N on March 3rd as far as the green-up goes.

Another application of over 100 lbs. of slow release 30-0-10 on April 7th to get it out of the garage and out of the way.



Past few days I sprayed some dandelions with some 2-4-d in the backpack sprayer that I should have treated this past fall as they made it through the mild winter we had.

Impressed with the green-up so far.  Growth rate so far will mean cutting every 4 or 5 days with moisture and rain but I'm OK with that.

Link Posted: 4/15/2024 12:47:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheStig] [#7]
Beautiful - hold the line! Jealous how healthy and full your yard looks. Excellent work.

We're finally up past 60 degree 5 day average soil temps and green up has been painfully slow with the new sod. It's ugly and patchy at the moment and the ground is super compacted. Waiting on someone to come out to core aerate. Till then, just applied some Lesco CarbonPro-G with 28-3-10 and looking forward to it waking up more.

In other non-related lawn care news but landscape-adjacent, I've been getting some hardscape work done. Had masonry edging put in around our flower beds, extended the backyard concrete patio another 144 sqft for a sitting area and future pergola, and having an outdoor kitchen put it. Hoping this time next year we'll be ready to put in a pool.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 9:45:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 9:48:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 4/16/2024 12:57:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Cobalt135] [#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:



Very nice domination line!

How many thousand square feet? (I'm wondering how much that 100 lbs was, as far as pounds on the ground per K).

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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
Originally Posted By Cobalt135:
Pic I took a few days ago looking across lawn into neighbors property who don't do anything but cut every week.  Other side of property is field like so all the undesirable seeds blow in.  Can you say weed pressure.  West central OH to give a perspective on the zone I am in.

https://i.imgur.com/NJSjG8Y.jpg

Very happy so far with application of Stonewall .037% 13-0-0 non slow release N on March 3rd as far as the green-up goes.

Another application of over 100 lbs. of slow release 30-0-10 on April 7th to get it out of the garage and out of the way.

https://i.imgur.com/CJ4Izyg.jpg

Past few days I sprayed some dandelions with some 2-4-d in the backpack sprayer that I should have treated this past fall as they made it through the mild winter we had.

Impressed with the green-up so far.  Growth rate so far will mean cutting every 4 or 5 days with moisture and rain but I'm OK with that.




Very nice domination line!

How many thousand square feet? (I'm wondering how much that 100 lbs was, as far as pounds on the ground per K).


The Stonewall with 13-0-0 nitrogen was at the published rate of 6.2 Lb. per acre. Applied first week of March with no spring growth evident yet but wanted to get the Pre emergent down before soil temperatures warmed.

Non slow release.....
TOTAL NITROGEN (N) ........................................................................................13.00%
13.00%Urea Nitrogen*
DERIVED FROM: Urea
*3.20% Urea Nitrogen Stabilized with (N-(n-butyl) thiophosphoric triamide).


April 7th applied just Nitrogen according to the rate on the bag....

0.8 lb of nitrogen per 1000 sq/ft
30% urea nitrogen*
0.02 water soluble Iron
Derived from: Polymer coated urea, Urea, Muriate of Potash, Iron Sucrate, Maganese Sucrate,
*4.50 Urea nitrogen stabilized with Dicyandiamide
7.50% slow release nitrogen; from polymer coated urea.

Best greenup I have seen in years, but I put some extra effort in this year putting down some extra N. Also sprayed about 3 gallons of 2-4-D this year mainly on dandelions that I should have started spraying in the fall of last year since they seemed to survive the winter.


Link Posted: 4/16/2024 12:57:41 PM EDT
[#11]
How do I get rid of this weed without killing off good plants?  It comes up from the ground but then grows in between and over everything.  I can pull it out by hand easy enough but it is everywhere and I can't get all of it.  

The weed has fibers all over it that will cause it to stick to clothing and other things.  Pretty sure that is how it populates itself.  





Link Posted: 4/16/2024 1:41:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
How do I get rid of this weed without killing off good plants?  It comes up from the ground but then grows in between and over everything.  I can pull it out by hand easy enough but it is everywhere and I can't get all of it.  

The weed has fibers all over it that will cause it to stick to clothing and other things.  Pretty sure that is how it populates itself.  
View Quote


What are the good plants (grass type/plant name/etc)? You just want to make sure whatever selective herbicide you use will not damage the nearby good plants. I'm not familiar with the pictured weeds but I'm certain someone more knowledgeable can chime in with proper identification and recommendation if they know what plants you don't want hurt/killed accidentally.
Link Posted: 4/16/2024 1:43:46 PM EDT
[#13]
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Originally Posted By SWIRE:
How do I get rid of this weed without killing off good plants?  It comes up from the ground but then grows in between and over everything.  I can pull it out by hand easy enough but it is everywhere and I can't get all of it.  

The weed has fibers all over it that will cause it to stick to clothing and other things.  Pretty sure that is how it populates itself.  


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed2_JPG-3189526.jpg

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed1_JPG-3189525.jpg
View Quote


That looks like goose grass, AKA catchweed bedstraw. Mixed in with desirable ornamentals hand removal is about all you can do without damaging what you want to keep. It is an annual that sprouts from seeds every year so a pre-emergent like Dimension could help if you get it down before the seeds germinate in the spring.
Link Posted: 4/16/2024 2:08:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NotDeaf] [#14]
Hi Folks, just ran into this thread. Northeast Ohio here. A bit colder then @Cobalt135 Central Ohio.

Here’s some issues, I’m trying to deal with, hopefully someone can help me.
Currently mowing about 3 acres (130,000 sqft), as some would say, that’s small, but it’s a beast. Running a Zero turn with a 64” cut with mulching blades.

Granule Fertilizer is expensive, there must be a better way. Burning through about 350 lbs of 28-0-4, roughly cost $400. Which applied about every 3 years. In the other years, using Gordon’s liquid 20-0-0, which if about half the price $200, but not as effective but overall continues to make my grass green, using a 10’ boom sprayer and Crab Grass / Weed killer as well in the same treatment.
What's an alternative compared to buying bagged fertilizer?

How often to you mow your lawn? Me, in the spring, is like every 4 days. You miss a day, you’re screwed, it looks like the first harvest hay season. I would really like to bag it (that’s another purchase) what do I do with all the grass? And that’s a lot of grass.

*Edit – Also core aeration in the fall, should it also be done in the Spring, as in now?
Link Posted: 4/16/2024 2:44:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NotDeaf:
Hi Folks, just ran into this thread. Northeast Ohio here. A bit colder then @Cobalt135 Central Ohio.

Here's some issues, I'm trying to deal with, hopefully someone can help me.
Currently mowing about 3 acres (130,000 sqft), as some would say, that's small, but it's a beast. Running a Zero turn with a 64" cut with mulching blades.

Granule Fertilizer is expensive, there must be a better way. Burning through about 350 lbs of 28-0-4, roughly cost $400. Which applied about every 3 years. In the other years, using Gordon's liquid 20-0-0, which if about half the price $200, but not as effective but overall continues to make my grass green, using a 10' boom sprayer and Crab Grass / Weed killer as well in the same treatment.
What's an alternative compared to buying bagged fertilizer?

How often to you mow your lawn? Me, in the spring, is like every 4 days. You miss a day, you're screwed, it looks like the first harvest hay season. I would really like to bag it (that's another purchase) what do I do with all the grass? And that's a lot of grass.

*Edit   Also core aeration in the fall, should it also be done in the Spring, as in now?
View Quote

I don't apply liquid fert. except to some landscape plants and flowers so not going to be any help there.

Spring mowing here with a fertilized lawn is every 4 to 5 days typically, especially if you want to follow the 'only cut 1/3 of the grass blade' which I don't always do.  Weather obviously factors in. Mowed this past Sunday and will cut again this evening since it could rain tomorrow afternoon and Thursday night.

Bagging is just taking away nutrients that would have made it back into the soil.

Aeration in the spring on cool season grass just opens up the soil to allow any weeds to germinate (and destroys any pre-emergent barrier you had applied) and can cause the soil to lose moisture more easily as the days are getting warmer until the plugs break up and re-fill the holes.

Link Posted: 4/17/2024 10:28:34 AM EDT
[#16]
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Originally Posted By TinSpinner:


That looks like goose grass, AKA catchweed bedstraw. Mixed in with desirable ornamentals hand removal is about all you can do without damaging what you want to keep. It is an annual that sprouts from seeds every year so a pre-emergent like Dimension could help if you get it down before the seeds germinate in the spring.
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Originally Posted By TinSpinner:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
How do I get rid of this weed without killing off good plants?  It comes up from the ground but then grows in between and over everything.  I can pull it out by hand easy enough but it is everywhere and I can't get all of it.  

The weed has fibers all over it that will cause it to stick to clothing and other things.  Pretty sure that is how it populates itself.  


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed2_JPG-3189526.jpg

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed1_JPG-3189525.jpg


That looks like goose grass, AKA catchweed bedstraw. Mixed in with desirable ornamentals hand removal is about all you can do without damaging what you want to keep. It is an annual that sprouts from seeds every year so a pre-emergent like Dimension could help if you get it down before the seeds germinate in the spring.

Hand removal will be a time consuming task.  It is everywhere in the yard, flower beds, and gardens.  Does it need to be removed as well or is pulling it out and leaving it on the ground this time of year good enough?
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 10:38:47 AM EDT
[#17]
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Originally Posted By SWIRE:

Hand removal will be a time consuming task.  It is everywhere in the yard, flower beds, and gardens.  Does it need to be removed as well or is pulling it out and leaving it on the ground this time of year good enough?
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Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By TinSpinner:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
How do I get rid of this weed without killing off good plants?  It comes up from the ground but then grows in between and over everything.  I can pull it out by hand easy enough but it is everywhere and I can't get all of it.  

The weed has fibers all over it that will cause it to stick to clothing and other things.  Pretty sure that is how it populates itself.  


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed2_JPG-3189526.jpg

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed1_JPG-3189525.jpg


That looks like goose grass, AKA catchweed bedstraw. Mixed in with desirable ornamentals hand removal is about all you can do without damaging what you want to keep. It is an annual that sprouts from seeds every year so a pre-emergent like Dimension could help if you get it down before the seeds germinate in the spring.

Hand removal will be a time consuming task.  It is everywhere in the yard, flower beds, and gardens.  Does it need to be removed as well or is pulling it out and leaving it on the ground this time of year good enough?


If you leave it on the ground you are helping it to distribute seeds. I would remove it to help interrupt the cycle. What is in the yard can be controlled with a selective herbicide that your grass is tolerant to, unfortunately though your garden and ornamentals can't tolerate much for herbicides.
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 10:44:49 AM EDT
[#18]
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Originally Posted By TinSpinner:


If you leave it on the ground you are helping it to distribute seeds. I would remove it to help interrupt the cycle. What is in the yard can be controlled with a selective herbicide that your grass is tolerant to, unfortunately though your garden and ornamentals can't tolerate much for herbicides.
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Originally Posted By TinSpinner:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By TinSpinner:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
How do I get rid of this weed without killing off good plants?  It comes up from the ground but then grows in between and over everything.  I can pull it out by hand easy enough but it is everywhere and I can't get all of it.  

The weed has fibers all over it that will cause it to stick to clothing and other things.  Pretty sure that is how it populates itself.  


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed2_JPG-3189526.jpg

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/weed1_JPG-3189525.jpg


That looks like goose grass, AKA catchweed bedstraw. Mixed in with desirable ornamentals hand removal is about all you can do without damaging what you want to keep. It is an annual that sprouts from seeds every year so a pre-emergent like Dimension could help if you get it down before the seeds germinate in the spring.

Hand removal will be a time consuming task.  It is everywhere in the yard, flower beds, and gardens.  Does it need to be removed as well or is pulling it out and leaving it on the ground this time of year good enough?


If you leave it on the ground you are helping it to distribute seeds. I would remove it to help interrupt the cycle. What is in the yard can be controlled with a selective herbicide that your grass is tolerant to, unfortunately though your garden and ornamentals can't tolerate much for herbicides.

Does it have seeds now or later in the year?  Everything here just started the spring growth spurt.  The perennial areas are the worst as I don't touch it with any type of herbicide and typically don't weed the area much.  Most of the garden area is perenialls.

Are there seeds on these already or do they need to flower and then develop the seeds?  Previous years I just pulled it up and left it...clearly that has not been effective.






Link Posted: 4/17/2024 2:52:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs] [#19]
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 3:12:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 3:21:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:

Pre-emergent is the key to low-maintenance perennial beds.

View Quote

I wasn't sure if it would be ok to use around perennials but it looks ok for what I have.  I will pull it or what I can and then put Preen down.
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 3:25:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 3:48:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Update on the new yard(s). Core aeration is done and have been maintaining the front yard at .4". Has a long way to go until it's as nice looking as my previous yard but will get there. I will be sand leveling once we are well into the summer months and past the rainy season.



Shot of the masonry work we had done for the flower bed edging. Still need to get a planter for the pedestal and some flowers to add a bit of color.


Close up of a dwarf Japanese maple I planted about a month ago.


The back is waking up nicely as well especially with the help of the added nitrogen apps courtesy of my GSD.


Same guys that did the flower bed masonry also built us a little outdoor kitchen.


Of course no new construction home is complete without builder trash in your yard. My reel mower found this rebar left over while scalping from what I presume was a temporary power meter grounding stake. Luckily the greenskeeper that services my mower was able to bend the reel blade back but still had to buy a new bedknife. That was not a fun day.



And here's a before and after of my elderly mother's back yard whom purchased the property next door. First pic is from March and second is today. Celsius + Sertay app plus some hand pulling and it's starting to look halfway decent.

Link Posted: 4/17/2024 4:33:07 PM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 4:37:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 10:05:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TinSpinner] [#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
@SWIRE

You're going to have to pull it by hand this year.   As you clear an area, sprinkle Preen all over your flower beds. (Try not to put it ON the ornamental plants, except for the vinca.   You can't kill that so don't worry.  Sprinkle away.)   You will need to reapply Preen every three months.

Toss the cleavers in a pile, then pick it up and put it in the trash.  It smooshes down much smaller than it seems like it would. It kind of collapses.  

FYI, this is not in fact goosegrass.   That's something else, and is a good reason to use scientific names, cuz regionally the names really vary.  But those scientific names can be really offputting.  If you type in "Cleavers" you will normally get this plant, though.  It grows pretty much everywhere around the country as far as I know, though maybe not in the deep south or southwest--not sure about that.  If @TheStig doesn't know it as a weed, maybe it doesn't grow down there.  


Since you have mixed perennial beds, you should absolutely read the label  HERE and avoid anything it says you should avoid.

It is my experience that NO granular pre-emergent herbicide is labeled for use around hydrangea (at least, it wasn't last time I looked) so I just stay back a little, away from the roots.

Pre-emergent is the key to low-maintenance perennial beds.

In GRASS, you can use 2,4-D and/or other broadleaf herbicides.  But not in your landscape beds.  

Unfortunately there is no selective herbicide that will get just the plants you want gone.  We all want that, but it doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
@SWIRE

You're going to have to pull it by hand this year.   As you clear an area, sprinkle Preen all over your flower beds. (Try not to put it ON the ornamental plants, except for the vinca.   You can't kill that so don't worry.  Sprinkle away.)   You will need to reapply Preen every three months.

Toss the cleavers in a pile, then pick it up and put it in the trash.  It smooshes down much smaller than it seems like it would. It kind of collapses.  

FYI, this is not in fact goosegrass.   That's something else, and is a good reason to use scientific names, cuz regionally the names really vary.  But those scientific names can be really offputting.  If you type in "Cleavers" you will normally get this plant, though.  It grows pretty much everywhere around the country as far as I know, though maybe not in the deep south or southwest--not sure about that.  If @TheStig doesn't know it as a weed, maybe it doesn't grow down there.  


Since you have mixed perennial beds, you should absolutely read the label  HERE and avoid anything it says you should avoid.

It is my experience that NO granular pre-emergent herbicide is labeled for use around hydrangea (at least, it wasn't last time I looked) so I just stay back a little, away from the roots.

Pre-emergent is the key to low-maintenance perennial beds.

In GRASS, you can use 2,4-D and/or other broadleaf herbicides.  But not in your landscape beds.  

Unfortunately there is no selective herbicide that will get just the plants you want gone.  We all want that, but it doesn't exist.



You are right about the plant names being somewhat regional, goosegrass is a common name for that plant here as is catchweed or bedstraw like I mentioned.

For example:

Galium aparine
Common Name(s):

   Catchweed Bedstraw Cleavers Goosegrass Stickyweed Sticky willy Velcro plant



https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/plants/galium-aparine/

I've heard of medicinal uses for it but more familiar with it's use in cheese making. All that's fine if you are trying to cultivate it for those uses but it's a nuisance otherwise.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 3:45:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 1:06:31 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm getting standing water in my yard from my sprinklers and this is after I core aerated it this spring, added some pelletized gypsum, added sand, and then ran a drag over it.  

This is how many holes I made with the aerator.




This was taken while running the sprinkler, so it should be wet but I don't understand how there is standing water just from the sprinklers after aerating it the way I did.  Even an hour after turning off the sprinklers the ground makes a squishing noise as I walk on it.  At this point is liquid Air8 needed?  More core aeration?  Top dressing with better quality soil since I have a lot of clay?



Link Posted: 4/22/2024 1:31:11 PM EDT
[#29]
I'm looking forward to what others reply with, but where I live it is all clay under a thin top layer.  Standing water is a thing for my "level" parts of my yard.  There aren't many places that are level, but it is the solid clay under it that holds the water so well in my yard.
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 1:45:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheStig] [#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
I'm getting standing water in my yard from my sprinklers and this is after I core aerated it this spring, added some pelletized gypsum, added sand, and then ran a drag over it.  

This is how many holes I made with the aerator.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/backyard_aerated2-3183435.jpg


This was taken while running the sprinkler, so it should be wet but I don't understand how there is standing water just from the sprinklers after aerating it the way I did.  Even an hour after turning off the sprinklers the ground makes a squishing noise as I walk on it.  At this point is liquid Air8 needed?  More core aeration?  Top dressing with better quality soil since I have a lot of clay?


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/surface_water_JPG-3195164.jpg
View Quote


How long are you running the sprinklers for? You may need to set them up to cycle and soak. Run the sprinklers for a few min then let the water soak into the ground a set amount of time then rinse and repeat until you get the total amount of water down you want. I do this in my yard with my Rachio irrigation controller automatically which makes it dummy-proof but still needs fine tuning. It's mostly a trial and error thing where you'll need to see how long each zone takes to saturate the ground to the point you start observing water run-off. The goal being you only water that zone a limited time before you start observing water run-off or pooling then stop the zone and let it soak in 15/20/45 minutes or however long it takes for your soil, then start up the zone again.

If you haven't already, it'd be a good idea to do what's referred to as a "tuna-can test" (a quick youtube search will come up with some videos on how to do it) - basically you want to measure how long it takes for each sprinkler zone to put down a measured amount of water then from that you can determine how long each zone should run based on what you are watering and how much water it needs.

Hope this helps!

ETA: There could also just be dips or grading issues in the yard as well which are more difficult to resolve. That could require re-grading or plumbing in drainage like catch basins or a french drain.
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 2:51:36 PM EDT
[#31]
My main goal at this point is to get new grass seed to germinate and the baby grass to grow.  If you look closely you can see the baby grass starting to up in the bare spots.  I've done all I can to regrade, amend the soil, and aerate up to now.  Standing water isn't deal breaking while trying to get the grass to germinate but once it is growing well I know the problem will continue. I bought a pull behind core aerator and will keep using it but clearly there is something else needed in the soil to get the water water to drain.

The sprinklers are manual at this point.  I fire up a generator at the creek and just run them for hours at time.  That day it had run about an hour when I took the picture.  Not sure how much water was put down.  That area would be covered by 1 sprinkler head that shoots out a 40' arc of water.
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 7:29:03 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
My main goal at this point is to get new grass seed to germinate and the baby grass to grow.  If you look closely you can see the baby grass starting to up in the bare spots.  I've done all I can to regrade, amend the soil, and aerate up to now.  Standing water isn't deal breaking while trying to get the grass to germinate but once it is growing well I know the problem will continue. I bought a pull behind core aerator and will keep using it but clearly there is something else needed in the soil to get the water water to drain.

The sprinklers are manual at this point.  I fire up a generator at the creek and just run them for hours at time.  That day it had run about an hour when I took the picture.  Not sure how much water was put down.  That area would be covered by 1 sprinkler head that shoots out a 40' arc of water.
View Quote


Gotchya. I would still probably water in shorter intervals with some soaking time in between. Leaving it on for the full hour is just saturating the top of the soil and not letting it soak in. Clay takes much longer to soak up water but it does hold water remarkably well. While it's not the exact same as my in-ground irrigation, the premise is still relevant. We have clay soil here and I only run my sprinklers in 5-10 min intervals max at a time with about a 30 min soak time. It's just the nature of clay soils and the only way to really change soil profile will be over a long period of time with frequent soil amendments.
Link Posted: 4/24/2024 9:13:52 PM EDT
[#33]
You are going to need to add organic material and possibly gypsum and it will be an ongoing thing.  Sand can become counter productive in clay.

Here us a little read i found. https://extension.oregonstate.edu/news/diamonds-clay-soils-are-forever#:~:text=%E2%80%9CNo%20amount%20of%20sand%20added,as%20the%20potter

Explaining why a soil test is needed to figure out if gypsum will actually work on your soil chemistry.

Stop Applying Gypsum For Clay Soil & Lawns - Lawn Care How To



Link Posted: 4/27/2024 10:34:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:

That's called Cleavers.  I'm making medicine out of it today.

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You need any more?  My crop of Cleavers is doing great!  

I've been pulling some out as I have time.  This is in a different section of the garden that I haven't gotten to yet.  I did pick up a big container of Preen.  I'm hoping to get to the weeding phase of beds soon.  



Link Posted: 5/9/2024 11:11:53 PM EDT
[#35]
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 11:21:11 PM EDT
[#36]
Wanted to see if I could get some assistance from the experts. I overseeded the yard with a mix my local co-op sells started getting some of that up and filling in. However I’ve got a ton of weeds and I don’t know the best course of treatment. Didn’t want to just do a blanket weed/feed type treatment if that wasn’t going to be the best bang for the buck. Was using a treatment service for about a year prior. Decided to go ahead and start taking care of it on my own.
Front Yard
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Back YardAttachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 11:29:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs] [#37]
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 11:33:09 PM EDT
[#38]
Link Posted: 5/9/2024 11:40:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Gunnie357] [#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:



Welcome to the Lawn Care thread!

So...the back yard appears to have more grass, and fewer broad-leaf weeds, and the front appears to be mostly those light-green weeds.

Is that correct?

Is the new grass coming up in the front along the street, and also in the back?

When you look at it, how much baby grass do you see?  How long ago did you seed?

Can you get a close-up photo of the new baby grass?  If not, that's okay, but will help us see what kind of stand you are getting.  

Those spring weeds out front are going to turn brown and die as soon as the real heat hits here in about three more weeks.  HOWEVER, we don't want to leave you with bare dirt, and depending on when you sowed your seed, we need to be careful what you spray on it.



EtA:  We expect pics of beautiful dag to be included in all future lawn care posts.

(Not really, but just sayin.)
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
Originally Posted By Gunnie357:
Wanted to see if I could get some assistance from the experts. I overseeded the yard with a mix my local co-op sells started getting some of that up and filling in. However I’ve got a ton of weeds and I don’t know the best course of treatment. Didn’t want to just do a blanket weed/feed type treatment if that wasn’t going to be the best bang for the buck. Was using a treatment service for about a year prior. Decided to go ahead and start taking care of it on my own.
Front Yard
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490499/IMG_0693_jpeg-3210066.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490499/IMG_0692_jpeg-3210068.JPG
Back Yardhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490499/IMG_0687_jpeg-3210072.JPG



Welcome to the Lawn Care thread!

So...the back yard appears to have more grass, and fewer broad-leaf weeds, and the front appears to be mostly those light-green weeds.

Is that correct?

Is the new grass coming up in the front along the street, and also in the back?

When you look at it, how much baby grass do you see?  How long ago did you seed?

Can you get a close-up photo of the new baby grass?  If not, that's okay, but will help us see what kind of stand you are getting.  

Those spring weeds out front are going to turn brown and die as soon as the real heat hits here in about three more weeks.  HOWEVER, we don't want to leave you with bare dirt, and depending on when you sowed your seed, we need to be careful what you spray on it.



EtA:  We expect pics of beautiful dag to be included in all future lawn care posts.

(Not really, but just sayin.)

Correct with the back better then front, over seeded with a pull behind aerator/spreader that was approximately one month ago. I can probably get some pictures tomorrow, neighbor helped me out and pointed out I was cutting the existing to low and not providing enough protection to the new seed so I turned the deck up quite a bit to help that out. The back seems to have filled in nicely and I may have to reseed the front as a result of my cutting so short. Close up of dag included to stay within rules of thread.
Attachment Attached File

Mowed today but picture was taken prior so let’s say one week. I can take better photos tomorrow that will show more detail. The dog pictures were more for dog pictures than yard pictures.
Link Posted: 5/10/2024 12:16:39 AM EDT
[#40]
Link Posted: 5/10/2024 9:59:32 AM EDT
[#41]
@Kitties-with-Sigs
Here’s some better photos starting with the front and including the new grass
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Back
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Link Posted: 5/14/2024 10:00:25 AM EDT
[#42]
Disclaimer: Ignore me if this does not apply to you/your grass type.  I'm completely ignorant of all things cool-season grass related so if you're up north with a fescue or rye or similar grass type, my specific advice may not be applicable.

My un-educated recommendation would be to fertilize (balanced at first like a 15-15-15, then something like a 28-3-10 at a monthly rate of 1-1.5 lb N per 1k sqft), water (1" total per week including rainfall during cooler months and 1.5" in summer), and mow often (2-3 times weekly if you can). I would avoid any heavy use of -ides (specifically herbicides) for the first part of the growing season. Not sure if your grass is warm or cool season grass but for warm season, it's really only just begun for us in the south especially for bermudagrass which loves daytime 90+ degree daytime temps. Also keep in mind pretty much every bag of grass seed will contain contaminants of weed seed as well. As a bermudagrass person I do not overseed ever. Most bermudagrass put in by builders is a hybrid sod meaning it was genetically engineered and cannot grow from seed.

Here's an updated pic of the property next door I'm taking care of with builder-grade Tifway419 bermuda sod laid last fall that was of horrible quality with tons of weeds. Took some doing but wasn't too hard. The more you are able to mow the better. Every two to three days is ideal but at least twice-weekly and you'll thicken up that grass quick.  What happens is you keep stifling vertical growth with mowing so the grass begins to puts more energy into spreading out - or at least that's true of your typical warm season or southern grass types. Also the thicker you can get your grass canopy, the more the grass will out compete and choke out any weed pressure. Just need to give it what it needs.


Link Posted: 5/14/2024 7:22:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs] [#43]
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 8:33:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs] [#44]
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 8:33:30 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:


First, take a long screwdriver.  Go out there and poke it in the ground in the area where it's wet.  

Second...if there is some kind of hardpan under part of your yard (or a bit of bedrock or something that is not allowing the water to drain)

Something is under your lawn that doesn't let it drain.

Tell me more about the topography.  Is everything except this a slope?  
View Quote

I will answer these quick as I could write pages about what is going on.  Everything a slope from the house to the creek.  In the middle of the yard, about 150 feet from where the picture was taken a stone wall about 3ft tall was built and some type of fill dirt brought in.  It leveled the area at the fire pit and gardens.   I don't think the area of the yard pictured is fill or much of it but that is right where it starts to transition to level until it gets to the rock wall. Clay was brought in as fill dirt as the gardens have always been a nightmare where 80-90% of the perennials that I plant will die a year or two in.  The ground will develop large cracks and become hard as rock during summer if I do not constantly water it.

The ground when soaking wet is easy to push in the metal spike for a plastic electric fence post (basically the size of a screw driver); however, let that soaked ground dry for 2 days it takes both hands and my legs to pull that metal spike back out.  I do this routinely as I have been watering the lawn to the my over seeded grass growing.  When dry you might push a screw driver in an inch before it stops.  Even using a shovel, in the middle of summer I am chipping away at the dirt 1 inch at a time trying to dig thee hold.  

The gardens I have been throwing compost and last year wood chips on it every year.  The wood chips did a great job at softening the garden soil.  That's why in my property thread I went to town adding inches of compost and then several inches of wood chips to my vegetable bed.  I plan on adding more the rest of the beds this year.  But I can't cover the lawn in woodchips.  I also don't have a top dressing machine which is what I need for either sand or compost.  It would around an acre, 40,000 sq ft, of lawn that I would want to fix.  

About 3 ft down I have hit vary large slabs of rock.  Not sure if it is bedrock but there is a very heavy rock layer at 3 ft.  

The over seeded grass is coming in pretty well.  It is probably too soon but I hit it with weed killer just because some areas of the grass would be getting choked out soon from large broadleaf weeds so I had to do something.  I will have to keep watering the grass all summer long though or it will quickly brown and die.  


Here is a good picture from page 16 of my thread.  This is when I ran a 3" conduit from the house to the middle of the yard.  It is about 100ft away from the stone wall.  Those are the slabs of rocks that I started pulling out about 30 inches into the ground.  You can sort of tell the soil composition is a few inches of top soil and then just clay.  



That is as far as I could dig down as there is rock under and next to the conduit.  Not sure if it is bedrock but my tractor and backhoe wasn't pulling any more of it out.  




This the garden area and closer to where the fill was brought in, maybe 60-75 ft from the stone wall.



Link Posted: 5/14/2024 9:01:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs] [#46]
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 9:27:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Gunnie357] [#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:


Allrighty then.

@Gunnie357 let's talk about your grass.

*First let's talk a bit about your overall goals.

*Then let's talk about what you HAVE, and maybe what happened this spring when you overseeded, what worked, and what did not.

*Then let's talk about how to get what you want and the possible steps to move toward that.  


Get a beer.  I can never do this in a few words.



I will try to put my questions that need answers in RED, since I'm writing a book here and the questions get buried.


Goals:

So off the forum, you told me that what you WANT is something that looks like grass, and is green.  

You are not interested in the perfect lawn.  You want something that looks reasonable from a distance.   You don't honestly care if there are mixed grasses in there.  HOWEVER, we did not talk about whether you care if part of the yard turns brown at first frost and stays brown until May.  Do you care about that? You MAY care about that, and if so, that's going to require more intervention.

We also did not talk about what you are willing to do to get what you want.

You did say that you have a sprayer.  I know you are smart enough to learn how to mix chems and use the sprayer correctly.  You said there are offers from family (mostly farmers) to provide some chems that might be of help.  




Let's look at what you HAVE


PIC 1:


This first pic is out front.   I think you said that you seeded this spring, right?  

That area appears to be MOSTLY winter annual broadleaf weeds.   There will be hot weather broadleaf weeds making their appearance shortly.

I am guessing the following:  

** in late winter this front area was mostly brown or bare, you seeded over that, before or about the time lots of spring weeds started popping up.  

**You seeded with some mix you got at the store. (I can't remember what you said.)

**You did not water.  You counted on spring rain to do that.  Did you put down straw?  Or use the existing brown plant material to hold the seed in place (this is not a bad option DEPENDING)

You can correct whatever is wrong with my assumptions.


You may or may not know the answer to this, but the yellow arrow is pointing to some turfgrass. This grass is turf-type tall fescue.  It LOOKS like it was there last year and is well established.  Is that correct?  

OR...is this NEW grass you got from the seeding?


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/118038/Gunnie_lawn_1_new_grass-3214501.jpg


Pic 2, ALSO out front:

In this photo, the RED arrows are pointing to what I believe is baby crabgrass.  

The yellow arrow is pointing to wild Bermudagrass (spawn from Hell.  (Sorry @TheStig) )

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/118038/Gunnie_lawn_2_crabgrass_and_bermuda-3214504.jpg

I mention these two things because all those little weeds?  Those are EASY to deal with.  The crabgrass is more challenging.

The Bermudagrass is what will make huge brown patches in your lawn from October 1 to sometime in May each year.  

[EDUCATIONAL BREAK:  ]  What you are trying to grow in Southern Indiana, is Cool Season Grass.  More particularly you are trying to grow FESCUE.  Ideally that would be TTTF (Turf-Type Tall Fescue) but in your instance, it's probably not going to be that, and that's not what I'm going to recommend unless I hear different from you.

That Bermudagrass?  That's what @TheStig has all over his lawn. It's BEAUTIFUL.  Cuz where he lives,  if it goes dormant at all, it doesn't stay dormant for long.  Which means it stays green year-round for him.  Here, where we get frost, it goes dormant and turns brown. You ever drive by a golf course in winter and see those brown fairways bordered by green rough?  Those fairways are dormant  BERMUDAGRASS.  

*MOST PEOPLE in your area want their lawn to stay somewhat green year-round.  I'm assuming you do too.

So here in the Lawn Care Thread, we have the best of both worlds.  I grow cool season grass and I KILL Bermudagrass (if I can.)  People like TheStig...he grows Bermudagrass and kills any fescue that dares to come up in his lawn.

[  /EDUCATIONAL BREAK  ]  


Now then....

Pic 3

In the BACK you have a better stand of grass.

This is not what we consider turfgrass, but is clumping fescue. (Nothing WRONG with clumping fescue as a rule, unless you are trying to grow something else.)

Notice how you have big clumps of wide-blade grass, interspersed with other stuff.

In this photo, the arrow is pointing to small broadleaf weeds that appear to be interspersed pretty much throughout the lawn, between the clumps.   Is that a correct assessment of your back yard?

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/118038/Gunnie_lawn_4_small_weeds_back-3214530.jpg

So to keep this post from being sixteen miles long, I'm going to break here.

I will give you a chance to answer the questions and make sure I have it correct, and ALSO...be sure to let me know the following:


1-Is the front generally more important than the back, as far as being a beautiful frame for your house?  (I am guessing so, but don't know for sure.)  NOTE:  YOU HAVE A BIG DOG. THE BACK YARD IS NOT JUST FOR FAMILY BUT IS FOR THE DOG.  THIS MATTERS IN WHAT I WILL SUGGEST.

2-Do you hate lawn care?

I ask this because looking at your cute property (which I saw via text) and knowing only a small bit about you, I think you like things neat and tidy, and you want your home to look nice.  BUT....do you LIKE mowing and taking care of the grass/landscape?  Or is it something you do because it has to be done?  Do you want it over as quick as you can make it happen?  Or do you enjoy being out there, working in your lawn?

3-This question is about a-budget and b- your wishes.

Do you necessarily want to do this yourself? (you certainly can do it.  I'm trying to judge how much energy you have for it, and want to put into it) Or would you hire a company (not Truegreen, so not the absolute cheapest) to take care of the front ONLY?  Cuz I think you need one thing in the front, and another in the back.  More on that later.  A LOT of people COULD hire a company but just don't want to.  Others...they would rather do the work and save that money.  Are you:

"I hate this lawn care and will pay to not have to do it."

Or

"I don't HATE this, but I have only so much time and absolutely cannot devote any more."

Or

"I could see this becoming a hobby."

4-If I say to you, "You need to order X chemical, read the label and learn to spray it (I will offer resources) how do you feel about that?  This is WAY more involved than buying a bag of weed & feed and dumping it on the lawn.  ONCE YOU ESTABLISH SOME ACTUAL GRASS, weed & feed becomes more of a viable solution.  But right now, you don't have that grass.  We have to figure out the best program for you, depending on what you are willing and able to do, and what you WANT.





Suggestions to follow, depending on your answers.

View Quote

Front is correct I believe that’s going to be a mix of last years grass and this years seed. If that is fescue I would say that is predominantly what I have. I overseeded early and did not lay down straw hoping the current ground cover would provide some protection the front at that time being an afterthought as I was mostly over seeding the back and had some left. I didn’t water thinking the spring rains would help. I had quite a bit of bare in the back because of construction and those filled in nicely with the new which blended well, I believe your estimation is correct.

I would much rather stay with something that will be green and nice longer rather then really nice a couple months then dormant. The front is important because it is the first thing seen the rear however would take precedence because that’s where the family including dog stay and enjoy time. That said dog is kept inside but spends a lot of time out when it’s nice for her.

As for time taken I enjoy doing yard work and don’t mind to keep up with it my son enjoys working in the yard though he’s little it makes him happy to help which motivates it to be done more. That said I do not have a desire to mow every single day or get out there with scissors to manicure. In other words I’ll happily treat the yard and spend time keeping it up but don’t want golf course level daily maintenance. I do not wish to out source it and would rather devote some time to making it my own.

I can I believe follow the directions and apply the chemicals as directed and do not mind to do so. The only stipulation being I don’t wish to apply something that is going to damage existing ornamentals easily or that would be hazardous to children or pets.

ETA: the mix was a local store blend they recommend for the area I’ll try and get more particulars
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 9:47:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 12:59:30 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:



Okay.


So...HOW MUCH AREA are we talking about with the problem soil?

By this I mean:

1-The soil that holds too much water, then dries out and cracks?

2-The soil that does not drain?

Since I don't really know the lay of your land (and without visuals, the description doesn't help me understand much)

Basically, I don't have any idea what your property looks like, so don't know what is actually possible.

Also...you have a tractor.  What are you willing/able to do to amend it?  

Bedrock at 3' is not great, but that's workable.  You can still grow good grass and get decent drainage with that, since it is not your entire property.

ETA:  Because I don't know the layout of your property, I don't know whether you could bring in several loads of soil, till it in and basically regrade/reshape that area while amending the soil.

I've seen you rebuild a bridge and a creek bed, so I do not underestimate what you are willing/able to do.
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:

I will answer these quick as I could write pages about what is going on.  Everything a slope from the house to the creek.  In the middle of the yard, about 150 feet from where the picture was taken a stone wall about 3ft tall was built and some type of fill dirt brought in.  It leveled the area at the fire pit and gardens.   I don't think the area of the yard pictured is fill or much of it but that is right where it starts to transition to level until it gets to the rock wall. Clay was brought in as fill dirt as the gardens have always been a nightmare where 80-90% of the perennials that I plant will die a year or two in.  The ground will develop large cracks and become hard as rock during summer if I do not constantly water it.

The ground when soaking wet is easy to push in the metal spike for a plastic electric fence post (basically the size of a screw driver); however, let that soaked ground dry for 2 days it takes both hands and my legs to pull that metal spike back out.  I do this routinely as I have been watering the lawn to the my over seeded grass growing.  When dry you might push a screw driver in an inch before it stops.  Even using a shovel, in the middle of summer I am chipping away at the dirt 1 inch at a time trying to dig thee hold.  

The gardens I have been throwing compost and last year wood chips on it every year.  The wood chips did a great job at softening the garden soil.  That's why in my property thread I went to town adding inches of compost and then several inches of wood chips to my vegetable bed.  I plan on adding more the rest of the beds this year.  But I can't cover the lawn in woodchips.  I also don't have a top dressing machine which is what I need for either sand or compost.  It would around an acre, 40,000 sq ft, of lawn that I would want to fix.  

About 3 ft down I have hit vary large slabs of rock.  Not sure if it is bedrock but there is a very heavy rock layer at 3 ft.  

The over seeded grass is coming in pretty well.  It is probably too soon but I hit it with weed killer just because some areas of the grass would be getting choked out soon from large broadleaf weeds so I had to do something.  I will have to keep watering the grass all summer long though or it will quickly brown and die.  


Here is a good picture from page 16 of my thread.  This is when I ran a 3" conduit from the house to the middle of the yard.  It is about 100ft away from the stone wall.  Those are the slabs of rocks that I started pulling out about 30 inches into the ground.  You can sort of tell the soil composition is a few inches of top soil and then just clay.  

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/area_i_hit_bedrock_with_trencher-1387733.jpg

That is as far as I could dig down as there is rock under and next to the conduit.  Not sure if it is bedrock but my tractor and backhoe wasn't pulling any more of it out.  

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/spliced_pvc-1387732.jpg


This the garden area and closer to where the fill was brought in, maybe 60-75 ft from the stone wall.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/garden_soil1-1387771.jpg




Okay.


So...HOW MUCH AREA are we talking about with the problem soil?

By this I mean:

1-The soil that holds too much water, then dries out and cracks?

2-The soil that does not drain?

Since I don't really know the lay of your land (and without visuals, the description doesn't help me understand much)

Basically, I don't have any idea what your property looks like, so don't know what is actually possible.

Also...you have a tractor.  What are you willing/able to do to amend it?  

Bedrock at 3' is not great, but that's workable.  You can still grow good grass and get decent drainage with that, since it is not your entire property.

ETA:  Because I don't know the layout of your property, I don't know whether you could bring in several loads of soil, till it in and basically regrade/reshape that area while amending the soil.

I've seen you rebuild a bridge and a creek bed, so I do not underestimate what you are willing/able to do.

This is a picture of my property that I created for a security camera thread.  It works here as there are measurements to show dimensions.  The grassy patch in the middle is what I'm concerned with at the moment.  Some of it is shaded by trees, there is gardens in part of it, brush/shrubs in part of it, the solar panels...etc.  But the general dimensions would be 200 ft wide by 200-225 ft long.  From the house to the creek bottom is about a 50 foot drop in elevation.  About 8 feet of that drop happens in the first 35 ft behind the house.  You can see part of the retaining wall I put in and I'm grading the rest of the dirt to make more of a gentle slope into the yard.

Following the center line behind the house where the number 310' is approximately where the stone wall is constructed.  That remaining drop in the yard to the top of the stone wall is about 5 feet over the course of 175ft.  The last 50 feet is almost flat so a 4% slope on the hill in the yard to the gardens.





The red in this picture is grassy areas but it includes things like driveways and parking areas.  The yellow outline is the main area I'm concerned with.  It includes the gardens but whatever I use on the lawn I will probably use on the garden since I have so many problems with it.  The blue is the slope of the hill.  It is generally high on the east side and drops to the creek on the west side but there is a slight elevation on the north side that drops heading to the south side, maybe a foot drop from north to south.




I do have my tractor.  I've been trying to determine if my 3-point hitch works.  So far it is a no go but they have added so many hydraulic lines and connectors on it for the bucket and backhoe that I may not have something configure correctly.  

I've see a 3 point hitch core aerator with curved blades that also swivel.  It can go deeper than my little pull behind model.  I can also get good compost for around $20 a cubic yard, a triaxle truck will hold about 20 yards and the delivery fee is $200.  But without a top dressing machine I will have to dump it over the yard and try to level it with the bucket.  I did a little bit of that with some good top soil this year and it worked ok.  That was with 6 yards of top soil and it did not go very far.   I can also get a 50/50 blend of topsoil and compost but that runs $55 a yard.  

The new grass is coming in well.  Once the weather clears I'll get pictures of it.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 1:20:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs] [#50]
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