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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2022 9:27:49 AM EDT
Can Rainier Arms give any clarification on this? Why was this done?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ghost-gun-retailers-agree-stop-selling-kits-parts-new-york-city-reside-rcna43913 |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2022 9:32:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: cheekibreeki]
[#1]
https://www.rainierarms.com/blog/rainier-arms-response-to-ny-city-settlement
"We haven’t released any information whatsoever that couldn’t be obtained via other means" sssssuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeee |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 9:32:56 AM EDT
[#2]
Well, no money from me....
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2022 9:33:34 AM EDT
[#3]
Wow
Just Wow |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 9:41:36 AM EDT
[#4]
The city probably threatened to sue them if they didn't. Any .gov has unlimited resources for a law suit and Rainier would be paying their own lawyers.
Not defending turning over lists but that's reality. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 9:48:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bigbore]
[#5]
Some people posting here have no understanding of lawfare. They were sued, the plaintiff submitted a list of demands of documents be turned over for discovery which they had no choice but to turn over. They made a settlement offer and the defendant accepted those terms to make it go away. Rainier realized spending $50K a year for the next 3-4 years in a legal battle over parts they probably make $12K on a year isn't worth it. The "legal" system is a fucking mess where those with the deepest pockets win, and we (2A Community) are just beginning to feel it in full effect.
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MN, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2022 9:51:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Bet they loose more than 50k a year for doing this though.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:22:36 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigbore: Some people posting here have no understanding of lawfare. They were sued, the plaintiff submitted a list of demands of documents be turned over for discovery which they had no choice but to turn over. They made a settlement offer and the defendant accepted those terms to make it go away. Rainier realized spending $50K a year for the next 3-4 years in a legal battle over parts they probably make $12K on a year isn't worth it. The "legal" system is a fucking mess where those with the deepest pockets win, and we (2A Community) are just beginning to feel it in full effect. Is it also Adco's opinion that giving up your customers is the better option if it's not something you make enough money on? |
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:34:11 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cheekibreeki: Is it also Adco's opinion that giving up your customers is the better option if it's not something you make enough money on? I'd be interested in this answer as well. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:37:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Bend the knee no more money from me
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:50:48 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cheekibreeki: Is it also Adco's opinion that giving up your customers is the better option if it's not something you make enough money on? Of course not. As someone who is being sued for wrongful death and is going though the same legal process, I'm just playing devils advocate. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2022 11:13:09 AM EDT
[#11]
No money from me,have fun keeping customers
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Posted: 9/7/2022 11:26:20 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cheekibreeki: Is it also Adco's opinion that giving up your customers is the better option if it's not something you make enough money on? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cheekibreeki: Originally Posted By bigbore: Some people posting here have no understanding of lawfare. They were sued, the plaintiff submitted a list of demands of documents be turned over for discovery which they had no choice but to turn over. They made a settlement offer and the defendant accepted those terms to make it go away. Rainier realized spending $50K a year for the next 3-4 years in a legal battle over parts they probably make $12K on a year isn't worth it. The "legal" system is a fucking mess where those with the deepest pockets win, and we (2A Community) are just beginning to feel it in full effect. Is it also Adco's opinion that giving up your customers is the better option if it's not something you make enough money on? It’s always easy to ask the other guy to fall on his sword for your principles. |
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VEN
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Posted: 9/7/2022 12:24:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cmxterra: Bet they loose more than 50k a year for doing this though. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 12:27:55 PM EDT
[#14]
No comment
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Posted: 9/7/2022 1:04:50 PM EDT
[#15]
You should be fucking ashamed of yourselves
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2022 1:15:18 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigbore: Some people posting here have no understanding of lawfare. They were sued, the plaintiff submitted a list of demands of documents be turned over for discovery which they had no choice but to turn over. They made a settlement offer and the defendant accepted those terms to make it go away. Rainier realized spending $50K a year for the next 3-4 years in a legal battle over parts they probably make $12K on a year isn't worth it. The "legal" system is a fucking mess where those with the deepest pockets win, and we (2A Community) are just beginning to feel it in full effect. So the options are lose or lose a little slower? Sounds like a company might as well just take a stand then. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 1:19:04 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigbore: Some people posting here have no understanding of lawfare. They were sued, the plaintiff submitted a list of demands of documents be turned over for discovery which they had no choice but to turn over. They made a settlement offer and the defendant accepted those terms to make it go away. Rainier realized spending $50K a year for the next 3-4 years in a legal battle over parts they probably make $12K on a year isn't worth it. The "legal" system is a fucking mess where those with the deepest pockets win, and we (2A Community) are just beginning to feel it in full effect. It's worth it to the gun community . And it's why we will fail. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2022 6:35:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Idahobound]
[#18]
done X 2...
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NV, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2022 6:42:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Idahobound]
[#19]
done...
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2022 7:06:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JohhnyCobra]
[#20]
Why do these companies keep purchase history down to the sku level linked to an account holders info longer than their return policy requires?
Makes no sense to me unless their payment processor requires some longer retention period. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 7:13:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohhnyCobra: Why do these companies keep purchase history down to the sku level linked to an account holders info longer than their return policy requires? Makes no sense to me unless their payment processor requires some longer retention period. The credit card company keeps statements for years. Court orders Visa to turn over all statements with charges at Rainier Arms from NY residents... |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 8:11:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Today, GD learned that subpoenas exist, and couldn’t handle it.
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Posted: 9/7/2022 8:14:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lvjeffro: So pissed I double posted, and fuck you adco...You as squeemish as your buddy rainer arms, you too are a traitor and considered a liberal appeaser and sympathiser... Typical GD disconnect from reality. It is very easy to call others names like traitor and liberal appeaser when you don’t have to pay the bills and sanctions for fighting a pointless legal battle. |
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Posted: 9/8/2022 12:52:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: cornhskr]
[#24]
Rainier Arms will never see a fucking cent from me.
I'm also spreading the word to everyone I know in the 2A community. Do NOT buy from Rainier Arms. |
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Posted: 9/8/2022 1:06:17 AM EDT
[#25]
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. From Ben Franklin. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams Rainier sent an email out today about having a list of stuff for me to consider. I don't see why they did not just update all hard drives on computers and join the side of tactical machining. But I am a tiny customer. They won't miss me. For those who want to say the first quote is why I should have stuck with them, they seperated first in my opinion. |
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Posted: 9/8/2022 7:14:25 PM EDT
[#26]
So is this specifically New York city, or all of NY state?.. asking for a friend
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2022 2:46:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Yeah so nobody seems to be able to answer the question of whether this was a criminal or civil court case. Anyone who has been following the Alex Jones defamation case should know that he pretty much ignored every single subpoena and did not comply during the discovery process. Sure he was found guilty of defamation and was fined $45,000,000 by the court but last time I checked AJ is still a free man. Saying "bUt ThE sUbPeOnAs" makes them look cowardly.
Considering RA was knowingly shipping a prohibited item I would expect them to have more backbone than this... |
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Posted: 9/11/2022 2:52:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Quien]
[#28]
……..
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Posted: 9/16/2022 3:57:17 PM EDT
[#29]
I started buying from John when he was a kitchen table accessories dealer before he started Rainier Arms. Probably close to 20 years now. He is a man of high integrity and not a Marty Daniels. He has worked his ass off to build several great 2 companies and support the second amendment.
As ADCO pointed out, no matter how much Rainier spent, in the end the state would get the records from discovery or court order. Not complying would lead to penalties and possibly jail. Everyone here with the F RA attitude would have made the same decision if they were in Johns seat. Maybe a few of you would have gone broke, just so you could tell your friends how you tried to fight the man (but lost) and why your now homeless. It would sound like a country song with your wife leaving, taking the kids, dog, and leaving you with a rusty truck. John has over 50 employees who count on him to provide for their families. In todays litigious society, even a frivolous lawsuit can bankrupt a person/ company. Want to help someone out, see if ADCO will take contributions towards defending his company and self in a frivolous lawsuit. |
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Posted: 9/18/2022 3:52:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Originally Posted By ecreps: Can Rainier Arms give any clarification on this? Why was this done? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ghost-gun-retailers-agree-stop-selling-kits-parts-new-york-city-reside-rcna43913 Owner John Hwang's response and explanation |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 8:23:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryUnderstandable John...the information was going to come out in court...through discovery phase...or subpoena. |
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Posted: 11/19/2022 6:33:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9divdoc: Understandable John...the information was going to come out in court...through discovery phase...or subpoena. Good to see you here brother. 
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:40:50 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypselus: It’s always easy to ask the other guy to fall on his sword for your principles. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypselus: Originally Posted By cheekibreeki: Originally Posted By bigbore: Some people posting here have no understanding of lawfare. They were sued, the plaintiff submitted a list of demands of documents be turned over for discovery which they had no choice but to turn over. They made a settlement offer and the defendant accepted those terms to make it go away. Rainier realized spending $50K a year for the next 3-4 years in a legal battle over parts they probably make $12K on a year isn't worth it. The "legal" system is a fucking mess where those with the deepest pockets win, and we (2A Community) are just beginning to feel it in full effect. Is it also Adco's opinion that giving up your customers is the better option if it's not something you make enough money on? It’s always easy to ask the other guy to fall on his sword for your principles. Especially when the "other guy" shares the same principles. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 8:05:32 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigbore: Of course not. As someone who is being sued for wrongful death and is going though the same legal process, I'm just playing devils advocate. I'd say the advocate the devil has in this is those who don't have to survive in this business world other than typing in a CC number (which goes to a bank who is watching your every move online btw and lining up your social credit score) hitting send and getting firearms related goodies or having a gun sent to their FFL...  |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 8:07:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigbore: The credit card company keeps statements for years. Court orders Visa to turn over all statements with charges at Rainier Arms from NY residents... I know right...not to mention the intel alphabet agencies have been keeping tabs on everything we say or do for years... You can't even type out an email and then decide to delete it because it wasn't really what you wanted to say... It's all being tallied now. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/19/2023 8:44:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DrDover]
[#36]
Originally Posted By ecreps: Can Rainier Arms give any clarification on this? Why was this done? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ghost-gun-retailers-agree-stop-selling-kits-parts-new-york-city-reside-rcna43913 They jumped the shark and went leftarded a while back. Just say ney to rainqueer. wish they would quit spamming my spam box with constant idiotic over priced nonsense. I know they do not miss my $$. They used to be good folks. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/19/2023 8:54:42 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigbore: The credit card company keeps statements for years. Court orders Visa to turn over all statements with charges at Rainier Arms from NY residents... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigbore: Originally Posted By JohhnyCobra: Why do these companies keep purchase history down to the sku level linked to an account holders info longer than their return policy requires? Makes no sense to me unless their payment processor requires some longer retention period. The credit card company keeps statements for years. Court orders Visa to turn over all statements with charges at Rainier Arms from NY residents... Should be easy to fix. Start a corporation and all buyers buy stock in the corporation. The amount of the buy in is the value of the product the corporation gives them. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/19/2023 8:56:52 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ParityError: Today, GD learned that subpoenas exist, and couldn’t handle it. A subpoena has to go through the court. A defendant can contest any subpoena. Why is it so hard to argue the plaintiff doesn't need sales records for every customer. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:49:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9divdoc: Understandable John...the information was going to come out in court...through discovery phase...or subpoena. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9divdoc: Understandable John...the information was going to come out in court...through discovery phase...or subpoena. And how do you know that? |
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