User Panel
Posted: 11/6/2010 7:24:44 AM EDT
Gentlemen,
Thank you for your patience, we know it’s been a long and oft-delayed project. Many of you have followed the discussions on the forums, for those that have not, please allow us to briefly discuss the current state of the 45 degree, short throw selector. The 45 degree selector, due to liability reasons, is not a drop in selector like the conventional 90 degree selectors. Spike’s Tactical and others will be making special 45 degree receivers with proper FIRE engravings on both sides, and an extra hole to allow the use of the 45 degree selector. These special receivers will feature FIRE engravings that can be used for both the 45 degree and the 90 degree selector. Edit: manufacturers have the option of making their receivers compatible with only the 45 degree selector, in that such receivers will NOT have FIRE markings usable by both 45 and 90 degree selectors, but 45 degree selectors only. This is an option manufacturers exercise, we do not demand that the markings be made for both 45 and 90 degree selectors. For folks that have been well trained like many of us that visit ar15.com and m4carbine.net, we don’t look at the selector, but go by feel, the marking isn’t necessary. For the rest, and especially those that have not been trained, a selector that points at nothing can be disconcerting. Thus it creates liability issues we must address, and we did so by making the 45 degree selector compatible only with properly marked receivers. The 45 degree selector has a little stud on the left side of the selector to prevent it from used on a conventional receiver. We have to do our due diligence to prevent its use in a conventional receiver without proper FIRE markings. That said, once a customer buys it, we cannot dictate what he does with it. If a customer modifies it to fit a conventional receiver, it’s against our policy and voids the warranty, as it constitutes unauthorized modification. We have no vested interest in Spike’s, or anyone else that makes these special receivers, so this isn’t a money motivated move. We know this disappoints many people, but we must look out for their safety and interest, as well as our own. Pictures of the production 45 degree, short throw selectors to come shortly |
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Very nice.
These are so fresh that when I called in, pricing wasn't even available yet. Tried to order two sets... guess I will wait for the email. |
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I'd like to share the following from another thread:
Quoted:
As soon as I got the lever installed, I messenged Duffy with my initial impressions, and a couple observations that may need some further explination of for others who purchase these. Here is a copy of the message that I sent to Duffy, I'll let him elaborate on my observations. Wow, this thing is slick and smooth. The reduced travel does wonders for the ergonomics of the AR platform. Being a long time pistol shooter fairly new to the AR scene, it's bugged me for ages now that I couldn't manipulate all the controls without breaking my stronghand grip. The 45 lever is the last missing piece in making this a reality, with the previous pieces being a Stark grip and a Phase 5 Bolt Catch Lever.
Once I had it in place I was a little concerned with the ammount of side to side play between the lever and the reciever, enough so that I broke out my mic to measure it. Came up with 0.940" between the levers, and 0.880" for the reciever width making for 0.03" of space between each side of the reciever and lever. Before hitting the panic button I went ahead and finished the install and the detent holds it in place nicely. This may be something to warn customers about as i'm sure there will be a few that will panic before finishing things up to see how good it feels. Next alarm went off when function testing. Was a lil suprised how far I could actuate the safety with the hammer down, guestimating about 10 degrees from the full safe position with the hammer uncocked. Just for grins I went and got the other AR and with the stock safety and realised it moved the same ammount. The shortened throw just made it seem like it was moving more. Again, possibly something to warn customers about to reduced your message and email load. Initial dryfiring drills were great, It's amazing how much difference a small adjustment can make in how a weapon feels. Control wise it's a whole new rifle, my thumb thanks you. I really can't express how happy I am with this safety, outstanding product and I'm glad you went through with releasing it. Thank you for posting your observations on the selector RE: side to side movement, it's the detent's job to hold it fast and stops its lateral shift. On a cast selector, the movement is pronounced. On our precision machined selector, it's almost zero, for a simple reason: the detent holes are 0.005 larger in diameter than the detent itself. Once the detent is in, there should be minimal lateral movement. The milspec thickness is .880 +.015 -.002, or .878 to .895. We based our selector axis off one of my Colt SP1s, which is 0.898 and on the thick side. We took measurement from more than a dozen receivers, even within the same company, there are variations. Colts are usually on the thicker side, Bushmaster Armalite, DPMS, LMT and KAC are all pretty well within specs. POF and another unnamed billet lowers are notably thicker, at 0.905 and 0.911 (while other brands of billet receivers are well within spec), while Olympic Arms are notably thinner than specs. Depending on which receiver you have, the amount of gap between the receiver and lever will vary. The gap is there by design (not ours, but spec), most people just don't notice it until an ambidextrous selector puts an extra lever on the right side. We took the pains to reduce the gap, ultimately it was a futile attempt because the thickness variation among manufacturers. Thank you for the observation on the slack. It is unavoidable on a non-adjustable trigger, and non-adjustable selector. We eschewed set screws on our selectors, as we do not deem it necessary for the selector to be adjustable. There's variation of this as well, the trigger in use can either have a lot of slack, or very little. On my AR10, the slack is minimal. On my AR15 with a JP adjustable single stage trigger, the slack is very noticeable, I'm just too lazy to re-adjust the JP trigger |
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I hope Matt doesn't mind me posting his review of our short throw selector, found here |
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The 45 is the bestest. It's how Stoner should have designed it. I had a BAD ASS 90 for the past 6 months or so. Recently upgraded to a 45. Well worth the coin. A perfect addition to my MRP.
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Will do in the next day or so. So long as you don't mind photos of dirty scoundrels that voided their warranty. Mental midgets aren't allowed to touch my rifle.
The stainless detent is nice. Much more responsive when engaged. The small levers are the way to go. It allows you to reindex your thumb beneath the lever without moving your thumb away from the receiver much. This design feels very similar to how a 1911 safety functions. If you're the type that has been trained to move with the safety engaged, then disengaged when the target is determined; this item is for you. If you are unsafe and never touch the safety aside from coming and leaving a square range, don't bother. This design allows you to manipulate the safety on and off without shifting your firing grip. It can be set up ambidextrously if desired. The short levers do not touch my trigger finger. Fit and finish of all parts associated are top shelf quality. It matches my SSA trigger perfectly. Fits great in my SMOS billet lower. SMOS is the maker of the LaRue billet lowers now. One thing I'd consider adding to the shipments are two Torx wrenches. Torquing the screws from both sides at the same time is the ideal way to tighten the levers. I opted for a bit of blue locktite as well. It held my previous BAD ASS 90 selector well. I had the needed tools on hand, others might not. |
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Thank you for the feedback
And thank you for the suggestion re: inclusion of two wrenches. Thus far, we've found we've only needed one. We leave the left side lever attached, after installation, set the selector to Safe, install the right side lever and torque down the right side. Then set the selector to Fire, torque down the left side. Non-permanent thread locker is recommended to ensure the screws do not back out, we try not to use words like "mandatory" since we don't like dictating to our customers . |
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I wanted to avoid torquing on the detent with the one wrench. probably wouldnt be an issue. Two wrenches got a better Kung Fu grip on them.
Never use red locktite, or you'll have a hell of a time getting it out without heat. You might do some damage attempting to break that hold. Has anyone had the center core plated in NP3 or similar coatings? Any reports of benefit/problems encountered? |
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Our detent holes are much more precise than the MIM selectors, only 0.005 larger than the detent itself, you won't break it
We are having a limited number of 90 degree selectors finished in Cerakote, in OD, FDE and gun metal gray. It should be even slicker than it is now |
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You guys getting a booth at SHOT?
Wow, I assumed only the levers would be coated. |
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We won't have a booth this year, but you'll see our selectors on some rifles in some booths
The levers and centers will be coated, maybe the screws too |
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Love the radiused FIRE engraving, this is one of the ideas we have for the 45 degree receivers that are meant to be compatible with both 45 degree and 90 degree selectors
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Im going to order one of these, and I am probably going to void the warranty.
I am going to punch a dot and line from "FIRE" into the correct selector location for the selector. Please don't boo me. |
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Quoted:
Im going to order one of these, and I am probably going to void the warranty. I am going to punch a dot and line from "FIRE" into the correct selector location for the selector. Please don't boo me. I was just thinking the same thing. Considering there are many firearms sold without a safety, I don't see how installing this selector in a normal receiver could be a liability. If it's not pointed at safe, it's on fire! |
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We all have seen lower receivers marked with pirate or zombie themed engravings (Parley, Aarg, Plunder for pirate, Live, Undead for zombie), and we do wonder if the manufacturers, or the folks doing the custom engravings, consider the liability issues.
But Battle Arms Dev. isn't them, and our legal counsels think it's a bad idea, so we have to follow what in the long run is a wiser decision. Making the 45 degree short throw incompatible with existing receivers limits its appeal and certainly its sales, but we're doing it not solely for our interest (and the company's existence, a lawsuit isn't a joking matter), but also for that of our customers. It is much better and safer to have lower receivers with proper FIRE engravings where the 45 degree selectors would point to |
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Quoted:
We all have seen lower receivers marked with pirate or zombie themed engravings (Parley, Aarg, Plunder for pirate, Live, Undead for zombie), and we do wonder if the manufacturers, or the folks doing the custom engravings, consider the liability issues. But Battle Arms Dev. isn't them, and our legal counsels think it's a bad idea, so we have to follow what in the long run is a wiser decision. Making the 45 degree short throw incompatible with existing receivers limits its appeal and certainly its sales, but we're doing it not solely for our interest (and the company's existence, a lawsuit isn't a joking matter), but also for that of our customers. It is much better and safer to have lower receivers with proper FIRE engravings where the 45 degree selectors would point to If you guys ever change your mind, I'll pick one up in a heartbeat. Right now, I need another lower like I need a hole in the head.. |
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We made about 10 unpinned 45 degree selector centers, all of them earmarked as samples for manufacturers, we can't release those for sale
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If you want one, get a file. Serious, a retard could do it. I took my time and it too 4 minutes in poor lighting with a cheap Chinese made metal file.
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Quoted:
If you want one, get a file. Serious, a retard could do it. I took my time and it too 4 minutes in poor lighting with a cheap Chinese made metal file. Ahhhhh.... I guess I got the incorrect impression that the diameter of the entire safety was larger... I may have to bust out the credit card. |
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Nope. Just have to remove that tiny stainless lawyer pin. You could probably do it with your wife's finger nail file if you had to.
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just got mine today! can't wait to mount it up. Just have to take care of something real quick...
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Please let us know how it works for you, we think it'll be love at first flick |
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From AXTS Weapons, click to see the video with the RH bolt catch feature, the 45 degree receiver
More info to come from ATX we can't disclose yet |
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Pretty cool! I especially like that it's apparently made by the Helghast!
Joking about the rollmark looking just like the Killzone video game franchise villains' insignia aside, I'm intrigued. |
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A review of the 45 degree selector (short throw) from Bryan Reed :)
http://op4guy.blogspot.com/2011/01/part-two-battle-arms-45-short-throw-st.html Of course, now most of the members are aware of the first 45 degree receiver made by AXTS, sold by Rainier Arms. The AXTS A-DAC receiver has a unique feature that uses the magazine release to lock the bolt back, in addition to being compatible with both 45 degree and 90 degree selectors. Photo courtesy of Rainier Arms Note the 45 degree FIRE engraving, and the small notch cut on the left side of the receiver to accommodate the 45 degree selector's stainless steel pin block The 45 degree short throw selector is slowly but steadily gaining momentum. The AXTS A-DAC receiver is but one of many that will feature the short throw selector, many more will emerge this year. It is our belief that when the word gets out, the short throw selector will grow out of its niche status and become a solid choice when buying receivers |
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Quoted:
Please let us know how it works for you, we think it'll be love at first flick you called it. It's perfect. smooth, crisp and short (in a good way, that's what she said). I went with the short lever on my weak side and am very pleased with the package overall. The rave reviews I've read online are WELL warranted. Thanks for an awesome product. Now that some of the 45 degree specific lowers are beginning to surface, I am going to have to get one of those as well... |
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In the M16 version, does it go to full at 90 degrees and semi at 45?
Doc |
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Rainier is running a special on AXTS A-DAC lowers
Thank you for your feedback One day we (Battle Arms Development) will celebrate its success by doing something for all the early adopters |
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Quoted:
In the M16 version, does it go to full at 90 degrees and semi at 45? Doc We have tentatively settled on the 0-45-45 CASS-3P for the short throw select fire version. We ran a poll a while ago, the 0-45-45 got the most votes. Basically, there are arguments for and against any arrangement. Of 0-45-45, 0-90-45, 0-45-135. 0-45-45 is probably the most conventional layout. In the works is a select fire version that goes 0-90-90, but it's Safe-Auto-Semi |
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Interesting. I can definitely see a 0-45-45 in my future if it's safe/semi/auto ....
Doc |
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Bringing back an old post.... Here's a video of the BAD A.S.S. 45 degree selector......
VIDEO: http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/CoryCop25/Videos/th_VIDEO0021.jpg |
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I did not previously realize the reason the notch was needed in a receiver to use the 45* lever. I LOVE the selector on my ARFCOM billet lower, and have wanted to put them on many (or all) of my other lowers, so am glad to hear that it's a matter of modifying the selector rather than the lower, so long as I don't mind voiding warranties.
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