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Posted: 11/1/2004 8:33:27 PM EDT
Guy had been firing Wolf all day. Fired one round of brass cased PMC at then end of the day.
Here's the result. If you look close you can also see the distortion of the extractor groove caused by the added resistance of the laquer..  Have seen this a lot but finally got a picture of it. |
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Posted: 11/1/2004 8:36:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Yuck.
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Posted: 11/1/2004 8:40:01 PM EDT
[#2]
It wont work Tweak.
They'll still buy shit ammo to save a couple bucks over the good stuff. |
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Posted: 11/1/2004 8:53:39 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm gonna shoot some Wolf. I just won't run a PMC afterwards.
 If Wolf was only a few bucks less I probably wouldn't, but it's alot more than a few bucks less. Unless you know where I can get good shit for around $100 for a case of 1000.
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Posted: 11/1/2004 8:53:44 PM EDT
[#4]
That crap is nasty!
Time for some to wake up. |
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Posted: 11/1/2004 9:51:20 PM EDT
[#5]
I use it, it's always been fine in my colt barrels but a lot of folks on here have told me (when I've told them to just make sure and clean laquer out of the chamber afterwards) that the laquer does not come off the cases.  Hence the pic.
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Posted: 11/1/2004 9:58:04 PM EDT
[#6]
Can't help those who don't wish to be helped.
Nice try Tweak! A+ for effort. MT |
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Posted: 11/1/2004 10:29:20 PM EDT
[#7]
I've always believed the laquer would melt, though I never dared try it in my ARs.
But I will say I have had no problems of that nature with the new Polymer coated wolf ammo. |
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Posted: 11/1/2004 10:38:14 PM EDT
[#8]
+1(only shoot it in my ak tho) |
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Posted: 11/1/2004 10:47:29 PM EDT
[#9]
My rifle gets a steady diet of XM193. I'm really not interested in trying anything else.
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Posted: 11/1/2004 10:54:58 PM EDT
[#10]
No FMJ rifle range = Wolf HP. It goes bang. I demand nothing more.
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Posted: 11/1/2004 11:17:52 PM EDT
[#11]
With all the money I saved buying my Tacpoint, I'm going to go buy more Wolf....in preparation for SHTF of course.
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Posted: 11/1/2004 11:21:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Tweek,
The Polymer stuff dosn't have the same issues. Even with the nasty and disgusting laquer coated stuff, a prudent shooter armed with a chamber brush and some patience can get the gorp out. There is a fine line between the casual and habitual shooter. The dedicated types that shoot Wolf and M193 seem to report few problems. Possibly the casual shooters need to stick with M193 to avoid the consequences of their casual attention after a range session? Hated Wolf untill the new Polymer coated ammo. I hear ya! Have seen the Laquer, goo up a firing pin. Mineral spirits and time seem to be the only solvent for the mess. S-28 |
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Posted: 11/1/2004 11:57:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Just like we'll never convince you that the stuff is great? Bit arrogant about the ammo, aren't we, lumpy? I will never argue with you about Wolfs accuracy... that could be improved. It's also underpowered, compaired to mil-spec fodder. But to say it's 'shit ammo' is a distortion on par with something Michael Moore would spew. If someone needs accuracy this ammo isn't for them; likewise if you do nothing but train for the days when the dead will walk or the UN decides to invade, perhaps you need something with more oomph behind it to get through all those blue helmets and undead craniums. But for those of us that still like to just go shoot ('specially if you have something full auto!) Wolf is the absolute shizznit. Here is why I can say that with all confidence; I personally have shot at least 15,000 rounds of the stuff through my rifles, at least 12,000 of it on automatic. I've both shot and watched others shoot it flawlessly through an M249 SAW, SIG 550, HK 91/93 (whichever is .223), several AR's and M16's, Robinson M96's, an FNC and an L85 (that's the brit pos, right?) and even a carbon 15. And the best endorsement I've seen yet was from a local here in vegas, I think he goes by Vegas SMG when he's here, who used to berate us Wolf users with all the same stuff you guys say "sticks to your chamber, it's shit, it'll blow up and kill your dog, yadda yadda yadda". Somebody (wish I could take the credit) got him to try half a case of the new poly stuff, and after he shot a bunch of it, including a hundred round dump out of my new beta c-mag, he couldn't stop saying how he was more than impressed with the quality of the ammo. Here's the really funny thing that I've noticed; I hear quite a few people who complain that it did this or that, or failed or blew up this guys gun. But I've never actually seen anything like that. In all the range time, monthly machinegun shoots and large get togethers I've been to I have yet to see the ammo mess up. Who knows, maybe it's just me? 
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Posted: 11/2/2004 1:23:32 AM EDT
[#14]
For the record:
I have a Vepr K in 7.62x39 that uses a hammer forged barrel with chrome lined bore and chamber. Since its basically a RPK, all I use, again - ALL I USE - is Wolf or Barnaul. Some Wolf is polymer coated (leaves a pinkish/brown residue on the chrome) and some Wolf and all Barnaul is lacquer coated. It takes me exactly 15 seconds to swipe clean the chamber. I use a mixture of Supertech ATF, Household Ammonia, and 70% Isopropyl Alcohol. I soak a patch in this mixture and wrap it on a bore brush. I twist it around the chamber and within seconds the chamber is completely clean and shiny. This is on a chrome lined chamber using dirty wolf and barnaul ammo in a Vepr/RPK. I know the 7.62x39 chambers are tapered slightly to follow the taper of the case, and I do not use lacquer coated steel cased ammo in my AR-15. But I found cleaning off the lacquer is not a chore at least on my Vepr. I don't see why it would be any different on an AR-15, except do NOT get the ammonia on your receivers and other parts (damn aluminum). Perhaps try just ATF. It contains a LOT of dispersants that act as detergents and its one of the ultimate universal lubricants and protectants. I use it on my car door and garage door hinges and roller bearings, etc... It will NOT harm aluminum since your transmission case is most likely aluminum as are most transmission oil pans that have cooling fins. |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 1:26:04 AM EDT
[#15]
S-28, as I stated, I have no problems with laquered ammo, my GF hates it bc it turns her fingers green when she loads mags tho. I haven't seen anyone have any luck with the PCA tho, multiple case head seps in one afternoon. S'OK, .mil tried polymer a long time ago, I think I'll pass. |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 3:29:24 AM EDT
[#16]
Would anyone be willing to bumpfire 240rd+ of Wolf lacquer coated ammo through their AR15 (8 mags consecutively)?
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Posted: 11/2/2004 3:38:20 AM EDT
[#17]
To me it looks as if the shooter had over lubed the rifle to start with and the rifle had just gotten very dirty. We all know that is very dirty, but that doesn't change the fact that he was able to shoot the rifle all day and only had a problem when he switched ammo.
Don't worry, I'll keep saving my money on Wolf. 
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Posted: 11/2/2004 5:14:43 AM EDT
[#18]
chamber was clean and dry to start. it's laquer not carbon, I can smell the difference.
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Posted: 11/2/2004 5:54:22 AM EDT
[#19]
Just think... If I shoot Wolf it leaves more of the good stuff for you.
When the "good stuff" is $90-$119 a case then I will be happy to switch. Never had a problem, I have seen that same pic on my own ammo, I understand the issues so I take a little extra time cleaning the chamber out. no issues to report after 8k |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 6:10:49 AM EDT
[#20]
+1 but it's never been an issue here, I've have had to scrub on second tier barrels. |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 6:17:22 AM EDT
[#21]
I never shot wolf when it was laquer, but with the polymer coating, I don't see a reason not to.
For every 1,000 rds of Wolf I buy, I can afford 1 more lower receiver to stockpile. |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 6:17:56 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 11/2/2004 6:25:35 AM EDT
[#23]
Tweak I see that shit with my AK all the time, it's not the laquer, it's that red sealant that they used around the bullet and the primer. I see it all the damn time. Look we pulled a bullet out of a wolf round and poured out the powder, popped it in the gun and popped the primer, pulled it out, and heated it up with a propane torch, the laquer never melted off the case. It's not the laquer it's that damn red shit they seal the primer with, and used to seal the bullet with. |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 6:32:10 AM EDT
[#24]
Note to self: I must try this Wolf and transmission fluid combination. One free lower per case.
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Posted: 11/2/2004 6:32:29 AM EDT
[#25]
If I still had some sure. I have shot more than that at one time though through My AR, wasn't bumping it, but was shooting it rather quick. 300 rounds, by the time I was done I was able to light a cig off my barrel. |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 6:48:03 AM EDT
[#26]
Tweak, buy that woman a Lula loader for Pete's sake! |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 6:55:11 AM EDT
[#27]
Considering i don't even know where to find the laquared .223 anymore (all is polymere coated around here)...........the horrible shit isn't even in current production. |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 6:55:37 AM EDT
[#28]
I have bumped about 12 30 rd mags (not as fast as I could, wasn't trying to make it glow) but in quite a short time frame. I had her smoking but good, and put one in the chamber and let it sit (pointing down range of course). I wanted to see if it would A) cook off, or B) stick in the chamber. Well, I shot the rest of the afternoon with other guns, (never walked down range) and before leaving popped the shell out. It didn't stick or cook off. I am not saying that it doesn't happen. Obviously it does, and can. Maybe I didn't get the rifle hot enough, or maybe I have only purchased stuff with less goop. FWIW Doc |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 7:01:15 AM EDT
[#29]
this is cheaper than wolf and your chamber and bore will remail spotless:
 |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 7:44:52 AM EDT
[#30]
Are the boxes of laquer coated wolf labeled differently than the poly coated? How can I tell which I'm buying?
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Posted: 11/2/2004 7:46:19 AM EDT
[#31]
The only laquer problems I've ever had were with pistol ammo that had laquered primers-it gummed up the firing pin hole on my 9mm. I've fired a variety of laquered rounds (9mm, 5.56mm, 7.62X51, 7.62X39), and I haven't had any cleaning or functioning problems. Of course I haven't taken caselots of this kind of ammo to the range and burned it all up, either.
I think that if you start with a clean chamber, and make it really clean after firing, that you should be fine. After all, the steel cased, laquered stuff is made from soft steel, and your barrel is made from tough steel. The hardness factor means that all you'll wind up with is goo, no matter how cruddy the rounds are-as long as they aren't dirty and cruddy. |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 8:25:44 AM EDT
[#32]
I won't run Wolf thru my Bushy, but I don't mind running it thru my WASR.
Shit gun, shit ammo...who cares! 
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Posted: 11/2/2004 9:34:54 AM EDT
[#33]
Its called "Ed's red", and as a gun cleaning solution it has been around a long time, and has been working well for a lot of people. I'm rather shocked more people haven't heard of it. |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 9:37:44 AM EDT
[#34]
I don't think you will find any of the lacquer stuff left, while the pic is helpful, it probably only matters to people who have it stockpiled from a year ago or longer. The newer stuff isn't a poly case, it is a poly coated case, and I haven't heard of any issues with it. Note- I don't shoot Wolf often, so I'm not endorsing it or condeming it here, just making an observation. |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 9:44:01 AM EDT
[#35]
Tweak, why do you want to give the new Wolf a bad name by showing pics of the OLDER Wolf ammo? Those pics are irrelavant now that the polymer ammo is out. We already knew that the lacquer coated Wolf was bad, it's old news. All you are doing is confusing the people that don't know any better making them think that ALL Wolf ammo is useless.
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Posted: 11/2/2004 10:38:03 AM EDT
[#36]
good point... I do run Wolf with BM/chrome chamber and maybe that is why no scrubbing is needed. |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 1:09:58 PM EDT
[#37]
I've always thought as photoman did. I heated up some fired Wolf cases in the oven - no lacquer came off. Also, when we would clean the chamber it would usually be red or pink goo - suggesting that the neck sealant was the problem.
However, I have to say that if the picture is of the PMC brass casing, then that sure looks like lacquer stuck to it. |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 2:36:47 PM EDT
[#38]
 |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 4:00:39 PM EDT
[#39]
+1
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Posted: 11/2/2004 4:37:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Nah, Bushmaster makes a better gun.
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Posted: 11/2/2004 5:13:31 PM EDT
[#41]
I have still seen a lot of it (lacquer coated) on shelves. The best way is to open the box and look. The lacquer coated is shiny and greenish, the poly coated is matte black or dark gray. |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 6:15:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Looks like baked on carbon from a dirty chamber.If that were laquer Im sure there would have been a complete failure to extract as that much laquer would have jammed the case in the chamber.I have shot plenty of the old and new wolf and never had laquer come off in the chamber or leave crap like that when switching over to brass case wich I do alot to show people my rifle eats anything you feed it.
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Posted: 11/2/2004 9:42:07 PM EDT
[#43]
I asked her, she said Lulas are for girlie men. 
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Posted: 11/2/2004 9:49:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Hey I had it happen to me a few years ago. Pain in the ass, had to use a piece of 2x4 to get me bolt back.
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Posted: 11/3/2004 10:22:00 AM EDT
[#45]
That's a good woman you have there so don't let her get away. |
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Posted: 11/3/2004 10:59:24 AM EDT
[#46]
I have to agree with her on that, I'll buy a Lula loader when both of my thumbs are broken. |
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Posted: 11/3/2004 12:15:47 PM EDT
[#47]
she has a busted thumb.
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Posted: 11/3/2004 12:38:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Tweak, Photo won't display, but I saw it once.
With the size of the chuncks on the case, looks more like chips of primer sealer that was back blown into the chamber, than flakes off the case. If you can get a piece of the flakes, my guess is that they are red after being cleaned up. |
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Posted: 11/3/2004 12:51:14 PM EDT
[#49]
I hear that Wolf wears out extractors and bolt faces prematurely. I thought about it, and decided that it's cheaper to buy a brand new complete bolt every 5000 rounds or so than to constantly run ammo that costs $200/case of 1000.
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Posted: 11/3/2004 1:02:59 PM EDT
[#50]
+1 |
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