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Posted: 7/18/2005 8:38:42 AM EDT
[#1]
Not that I have an answer, but.....
Are you sure you have a REAL TD vertical grip? I have heard there are some immitations out there that don't fit very well. I also thought I read somewhere somebody was complaining about the YHM rails not being to mil spec. |
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Posted: 7/18/2005 8:39:12 AM EDT
[#2]
Dremel your TDVG. I had to with my YHM and TDVG.
That's the main reason why I sold the YHM HG and went with the MidWest Industries HG. YHM's early production run on these HG's was flawed slightly. It has since been corrected. You probably got a hold of one of the out of spec HG's. HS1 |
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Posted: 7/18/2005 8:46:02 AM EDT
[#3]
This is the YHM LW FF midlenght rail forearm (YHM-9634), not the handguard. It is also a recent production. Got it 2-3 months ago (new). I got the TD grip from JSE Surplus. I know they sell Leapers stuff, but this TD grip was sealed in the original package w instructions... looks like the real deal. |
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Posted: 7/18/2005 8:47:27 AM EDT
[#4]
TD grips.... To place on rail, use two people, one to hold the two detent levers and one to tap it with a hammer.... once in place never take it off... it's now part of your weapon.....LOL nice grips but what a bitch to put on ...
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Posted: 7/18/2005 8:58:56 AM EDT
[#5]
BIG +1 right there! Yeah, the TDVG is nothing like the KAC/GG&G VG's. The latter being easily removeable. I haven't tried the Dieter because it's a little too permanent. I can get the TDVG on and off by myself, but my fingers get trashed during the process. Needing a wrench to remove a VG doesn't appeal to me as much as needing a hammer to put on the TDVG on.  HS1 |
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Posted: 7/18/2005 9:20:14 AM EDT
[#6]
I put some dowel pins (3/16" IIRC) under the detents to hold them in the retracted position. I was then able to shove the VG on most ot the way, then tapped with a mallet.
I actually worked it up and down the HG a couple of times shaving a little plastic along the way. It would still be a bitch to take off by hand though. It fits too snug to hold the detents down and apply enough pressure to get it off. I keep some dowels in with some of my other little knick-knacks in case the need arises to take it off. |
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Posted: 7/18/2005 9:29:43 AM EDT
[#7]
I have the non FF handguard, and got mine on by myself, no problem. It wasn't easy, but once I got it started, it slid right down the rail. I must say, it doesn't budge after it is installed. There isn't any movement in the grip at all.
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Posted: 7/18/2005 11:09:04 AM EDT
[#8]
DO NOT DREMEL ANYTHING!!!! I use the TD and the YHM forearms exclusively you do not need to dremel anything.
If your rail is new production, it will work. Use two people, one to hold rifle stright up with the stock on the floor. The other to hold down the buttons and push the TD on. It will be tight, and you might see a little plastic getting shaved but thats alright. I push it on one way a bit, then turn it around and push on that way. Just be patient, it will go on and once it does it is absolutley rock solid. |
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Posted: 7/18/2005 11:16:31 AM EDT
[#9]
TD VG require mil-spec rails. I have not seen YHM CONSISTENTLY produce rails that follow the M1913 spec. C4 |
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Posted: 7/18/2005 11:30:54 AM EDT
[#10]
I had the old style YHM free float light weight guards and I did have to file the TD Vert Grip. It wouldn't fit any other way. I have since sold the YHM and installed the same old TD VG on a LaRue 9.0 which is rock solid by the way so I did not ruin the TD VG.
Try to slide the VG on and see where it contacts the YHM. If yours is like mine was, the YHM rails didn't stick out very far from the actual guard. The radius of the tube contacted the top edge of the VG before the actual rail would. I filed a very small amount of the top of the VG matching the radius of the YHM hand guard. Not sure how to properly explain what I did but when it was mounted you could not tell that anything had been done. Now that the TD VG is mounted on my LaRue tube, you still can't tell anything was done to it. Just my .02 MadDog 
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Posted: 7/18/2005 12:13:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Your explanation is quite clear MadDog. Thanx.
I will try this tonight (filing the top a bit) and also put some 3/16" studs to hold the TD VG lock buttons will I push it down with a mallet. I'll keep you guys informed on how it went. |
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Posted: 7/18/2005 12:30:54 PM EDT
[#12]
File down td grip, use some gun grease to slide it on. Apply gun grease to YHM forend. Worked 4 me.
jls7 |
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Posted: 7/18/2005 3:44:34 PM EDT
[#13]
You shouldn't have to do either of the above. Use something to hold the locking bars out of the way so you don't have to mess with them and work it on nice and easy. Push it as far as it'll go, then pull it back off, turn it around the other way and try it again. Eventually it'll work on and stay nice and tight. You break out the Dremel and you're likely to remove too much material and have a grip that is loose and wobbles.
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Posted: 7/18/2005 3:56:54 PM EDT
[#14]
I got an even better idea! Buy rails that are in spec!!!!  Then we don't have to have a "MY TD doesn't fit on my YHM rail thread every other week."C4 |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 8:24:33 AM EDT
[#15]
Hey, I did it hat- filed a tiny bit the TD VG (top and inside sections that contact the rails)
- Put four of those small L-shaped hex wrenches to hold down the lock buttons - Rammed it down the rail with a rubber mallet (first in one way, removed it and put it back the other way) No lubing needed. A bit of plastic from the grip got sheered by the rails, but I guess this is normal and intended from TD to get a tight fit. Thanks for the help guys. Here's how my midlength baby looks right now: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/Sniper918/AR2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/Sniper918/AR3.jpg BTW, many thanx to BrightFlashlites & Eagle Firearms for the YHM parts |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 8:30:18 AM EDT
[#16]
So I guess the comments about YHM rails following the M1913 spec (as some here state) is STILL not true (as you had to do some filing and some of the TD VG came off during installation). FYI, it is NOT normal to have material come off when installing the TD VG (means the rail is out of spec). C4 |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 9:04:37 AM EDT
[#17]
Oh ... I see.
Being a university student living on sholarships funds, a had a really small budget for making this first incursion in the AR15 world. YHM was the only way to go. They made me save a few hundred $. Be assured my next AR will be fitted with the proper stuff (LaRue, DD, ...). |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 9:11:18 AM EDT
[#18]
Roger on a limited budget (been there and done that). C4 |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 11:24:08 AM EDT
[#19]
Yeah, that's what it takes to sell more LaRue isn't it Grant? Sling around a few accusations about others and hope that they'll stick. What's your excuse for why these guys have problems with the TD v.grip: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=242824&page=2 There have been other threads where people have posted that it can be a two person installation with the TD v.grip and it still be PIA to get installed. At one time or another it's been stated about it happening with every single manufacturer DD, KAC, Samson, Troy, YHM and God forbid, even LaRue! LaRue has a great product, there is no denying that, but your sales antics at times are blatantly disingenous. |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 11:42:53 AM EDT
[#20]
Mine fits just fine!
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Posted: 7/19/2005 2:52:37 PM EDT
[#21]
LOL well I guess you looking for a fight (came to the right place).  You have been running around this board for a long time telling everyone that the the YHM rails are in spec (LIE). Many a customer of mine has purchased a TD VG and when I asked what rail system there were putting them (as I always try and do) they advise a YHM. I then make them aware that there is a good chance that it wouldn't fit. They tell me that you promised them it would fit (LIE). Sure enough they come back to me complaining about the YHM rail and TD VG not fitting. While YHM has made some changes to their rails they do not have the ability to consistently follow the M1913 spec. In fact I will even state that MANY rail manufactureres have a hard time following the M1913 (consistently). It is entirely possible for the TD VG and LT rail to be a little undersized or oversized (as anything made by man can be flawed). To date I know of a couple people (two) that say their TD VG has slight movement on their LT rails. TWO!!!!! I would need a calculator to list all the threads where people had to dremel, lube, cut, file and pound the the TD VG onto the YHM rail!  So keep on telling people (screwing them) that the YHM rails follow the M1913 spec and the TD VG will fit just fine. Its funny that you think I am "just trying to sell LT rails", but the same can be said of you and your "YHM rails are Mil-Spec" comments. I am just trying to save people some let down/frustration when they buy the YHM/TD VG combo. What are you trying to do??? C4 |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 2:55:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Ditto! I have 4 TD Rails on 4 LT rails. All are ROCK SOLID! Not one of them removed any matterial from my TD VG during installation or required me to file, pound, cut or dremel anything off. C4 |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 3:00:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Well,
I have a YHM 2 pc 4 rail handguard. It was tight, but at least it's a good snug fit. Didn't lose any material off the grip but man It was tough by myself. But it's on there, and I'm happy with it. |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 3:09:26 PM EDT
[#24]
This can and will happen as well. It is NOT an absolute that the TD VG and YHM will not work together. More often than not though you have to "persuade" them on. C4 |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 3:27:59 PM EDT
[#25]
You're in on every single LaRue thread out there and you're accusing me of an alterior motive, PLEASE!!! Nearly every single ARMS mount thread or any free float discussion has a post from you pushing LaRue, do a search of my name in this forum and the Rifles, Uppers & Lowers forum and see how many threads I'm trying to shove products down people's throat. I challenge anyone to review my posts and see where I'm forcing a product on someone. I have nearly always discussed the full options they might have except where the question might be on specific item. As for the accusation you have customers of mine complaining to you about their TD grips not fitting, I'll call definetely that a LIE!! I have never hesitated to tell folks that the fit will be tight BUT I have also always told them that I HAVE A NO HASSLE RETURN POLICY AND NO RESTOCK FEES! |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 3:49:54 PM EDT
[#26]
You're in on every single LaRue thread out there and you're accusing me of an alterior motive, PLEASE!!!
No SHIT! I am basically one of three LT dealers on the board! I also see you in every "will the YHM rail and YD VG fit together" thread. Nearly every single ARMS mount thread or any free float discussion has a post from you pushing LaRue, do a search of my name in this forum and the Rifles, Uppers & Lowers forum and see how many threads I'm trying to shove products down people's throat. You (until recently) just picked up a DD dealer account so I wouldn't expect you to post in rail threads (as you most likely have limited knowledge on them). LT rails are my favorite (for good reason) and I do talk about them. Incase you didn't know that is what dealers do (sell gear that is). I challenge anyone to review my posts and see where I'm forcing a product on someone. I have nearly always discussed the full options they might have except where the question might be on specific item. Discussing products is what I do as well (and make recommendations). If the experienced members don't share their knowledge what good is this board then??? As for the accusation you have customers of mine complaining to you about their TD grips not fitting, I'll call definetely that a LIE!! I have never hesitated to tell folks that the fit will be tight BUT I have also always told them that I HAVE A NO HASSLE RETURN POLICY AND NO RESTOCK FEES! Well you actually just lied. Telling folks that "that the YHM rail and the TD VG is a tight fit" is just not 100% true! I would say on average that folks have a 50/50 chance that their TD VG fitting without having to modify it (or shear material off). My guess as to why your customers don't come back to you and return the YHM rail is that they don't have the money for any other rail and already got the TD VG on there (don't want the hassle). Call TD and ask them how many folks call them about their VG not fitting on the YHM rail. I'll save you a call, ITS A LOT! C4 |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 4:11:14 PM EDT
[#27]
I dont care what rail system you have putting those god damned TD VFGs on is a damn pain in the assI have installed the Tango Down VFG on Knights M4 RAS, Surefire rail system, YHM and the ARMS SIR it is a pain in the ASS you have to sand the damn thing to make it fit. If it was not such a good VFG I would not put up with the shit involved in putting them on.
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Posted: 7/19/2005 4:15:38 PM EDT
[#28]
Agree they are tight to put on just about any rail. A trick is to use golf tees to keep th tabs down while you slide them onto the rail. FYI the ARMS SIR doesn't have a high enough neck on its rail for the for the TD VG to fit properly. C4 |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 4:22:54 PM EDT
[#29]
So when you say that the LaRue has the best fit for the TD grip but then when we read here where others have had to use two people or rubber mallot or that their TD grips are wobbling then you're lying also. I know where I stand Grant, I'm not worried. You're the one who has the knack for digging himself a hole. If anyone wants to return their YHM h.guards that they bought based on my reccomendation and then found that their TD grips did not fit please let me know. |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 4:25:32 PM EDT
[#30]
But you've stated over & over that the LaRue rail has the best fit, how can it be a PIA to put on it? |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 4:43:32 PM EDT
[#31]
Try and keep up. If you don't know the trick to keeping the tabs down it is murder on your fingers (keeping the tabs pushed down). It has NOTHING to do with sliding the TD VG onto the LT rail. Jeff C. of Tango Down once commented to me that that the most consistent, precise, in spec rail he has seen to date was the LaRue Tactical Rail. I would agree with that as well. C4 |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 4:50:17 PM EDT
[#32]
So when you say that the LaRue has the best fit for the TD grip but then when we read here where others have had to use two people or rubber mallot or that their TD grips are wobbling then you're lying also.
I actually have never heard of anyone having to use a mallet to get a TD rail onto rail. I have seen a small amount of folks say that they had a little wiggle with the TD VG on a LT rail. So no lying on my part (its all you). I know where I stand Grant, I'm not worried. You're the one who has the knack for digging himself a hole. Other way around. I am not telling folks that the YHM rails are in spec (lie) and that they are a "tight fit." If anyone wants to return their YHM h.guards that they bought based on my reccomendation and then found that their TD grips did not fit please let me know. First intelligent thing you have said. C4 |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 4:51:30 PM EDT
[#33]
KIDS,KIDS, calm down . The Tango Down grips are plastic, that means shrinkage during the cool time. Plasticfrom a mold is hard to make Mil-spec. I have 5 Tango downs most are on the SIR rails, one is on my new Knights M5RAS and it wobbles go figure. But I am ok with that. U will need to modifed the grip just a lil to get it to fit the rail of the YHM.(((IF you need help with this IM me ok))). IT sucks, but when on the gun they fell great.
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Posted: 7/19/2005 4:52:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Well, To be honest ...A little persuasion was necessary. But to me that's a good thing now. I sure as h*ll don't wanna try to take it off. It's on there man. No wiggle or anything. |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 4:54:22 PM EDT
[#35]
TD cuts the grips after they are cold (no shrinkage). I do think that anything made by man can't have some deviances (as we are not perfect). I won't say that you HAVE to modify the TD VG to fit on the YHM (have seen some that fit), but it isn't likely. C4 |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 4:54:54 PM EDT
[#36]
Sh*t I never even thought about a golf tee. I used a small jewelers screwdriver to wedge them down. |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 4:56:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Drill bits work as well!  C4 |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 5:02:35 PM EDT
[#38]
This works great for me. Plastic cable ties
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Posted: 7/19/2005 5:10:31 PM EDT
[#39]
No offense to anyone, just my experience, I have used 4 different TDs (bought different colors) on two different YHM forearms but both of the LW FF type. I have never used a mallet or anything other than the hands of another helper to put them on. The only time I noticed something screwy was with the latest TD (the one in the pic I posted); that one required pushing it on the rail on one side then turning it around and pushing it down that side and repeating. The rail was scraping less than a paper thin amount of plastic off of the TD. The whole process took about 2-3 minutes and it is solid as hell now.
With all that being said, the forearms are both the NEW YHM style. I did have the old style and the TD would not fit on it without requiring major Dremeling. I bought the rail from BF and when I contacted him about it he replaced the old forearm with the new one free! It is this new rail that has worn three different TDs. |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 5:10:39 PM EDT
[#40]
That is a great idea as well! C4 |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 5:17:51 PM EDT
[#41]
Every TD I have bought came with those inside the grip...along with instructions saying to use them that way. I have always just used my fingers anyway. |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 5:21:38 PM EDT
[#42]
I just read the info it says use them for lead wire management not for my IDEA.They show fingers being used in the instructions
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Posted: 7/19/2005 5:24:12 PM EDT
[#43]
Mine were quite tight, and required that they be tapped down to go on, mine were also early models. If you can't handle that little amount of work as an AR15 owner, you have bigger issues.
The BS comments and muck slinging from vendors has gotten past the point of being pathetic on this board. I will NOT buy anything from ANY of the vendors on this board who have to result to name calling or jumping all over other peoples threads. There are plenty of decent dealers here, but too many threads have been showing examples of ego and juevinile vindictiveness. This thread isn't the worst by any stretch, but it is still worthy of the title "swill". I would also like to point out that I am not addressing this to any particular vendor, there are more than one or two that have been doing this. Sorry to sidetrack the ACTUAL TOPIC, so I'll stop my rant and simply post another picture. 
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Posted: 7/19/2005 5:28:37 PM EDT
[#44]
I have NO DOUBT that YHM changed their rail specs some time ago. The problem is that they CANNOT consistently keep them in spec. To be honest I really cannot fault them for this (based on the price they charge for them). When you sell a piece of gear cheap you have to make a cut somewhere. That somewhere is QC. I would be willing to bet that there are batches of YHM rails that follow the M1913 spec very well (could most likely trace them by delivery date to the dealer). In the same breath you could also find batches of bad ones (again traced by delivery date to dealer). This same thinking goes along with SF rails. There are good batches and bad batches. When anyone calls me up and orders a SF rail and a TD VG I try and advise them they might not be a good idea (have a 50/50 shot). I even test fit some TD VG's onto SF rails for customers to make sure they get a working combo. C4 |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 5:30:14 PM EDT
[#45]
Correct. They are for wire management. I would advise folks to NOT tie down their wires to tightly to their rails (as I have melted wires). C4 |
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Posted: 7/19/2005 5:30:42 PM EDT
[#46]
WE need to tack some info about this Tango Down grip to the top.
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Posted: 7/19/2005 5:32:35 PM EDT
[#47]
Damn, my TD came with those little cable ties and I thought they were for routing the tape switch cable. Now I feel real stupid.
MadDog 
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Posted: 7/19/2005 5:32:54 PM EDT
[#48]
You are right (as I read the intsructions in front of me) oops!
 I have seen your idea before and I think I may have assumed thats what the wire ties were for... So great idea! 
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Posted: 7/19/2005 5:35:33 PM EDT
[#49]
Got my TD from Grant.....used the cable ties to hold down the detents and hammered it on my heavy YHM FF with a plastic mallet...easy..well not really
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Posted: 7/19/2005 5:35:44 PM EDT
[#50]
there is only three in the bag not four.
Yes I have posted a pic like this a few times with this discusions with TDVG's
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