60 rounds of American Eagle (40 prone and 20 standing) did this:



Shot out of this:



Just wearing a T Shirt.

And don't give me Technique BS.  I had it tight to my shoulder and I shoot M1A and garands prone from time to time.  My post isn't about asking how to shoot.  It's about bringing to light the fact that an AR DOES have SOME recoil.  

The red spots don't hurt at all and I'm really only throwing this out there for discussion.  So many times people refer to the AR as having "NO" recoil.  Well, when I let my son shoot this upper, with me sitting right behind him.  It threw him back and hurt his face.  He's 8.  And if I let my wife shoot it, I bet she would say it hurts.  Therefore I don't think it's the best firearm for novices to learn on.  Yeah, the recoil isn't bad compared to a .308 or a 7mm rem mag, but it's still there.  But I think every AR I've shot will do this to my shoulder if I'm just wearing a T Shirt.  Especially shooting 5.56 ammo.  There are set ups that have less recoil.  Like my Recce Middy with a big ole scope, heavy barrel and a harris bipod on the front.  Yeah, that has very little recoil.  But my wife wouldn't even be capable of holding that weapon up.

When we shoot our M1A's along side my Dad's M4gery, I think the M4gery actually produces a louder report.  How can something that reports louder than an M1A not have "any" recoil?  I realize that the barrel is shorter and that plays a role, but would a .22 LR with a 14.5" barrel be as loud or louder than an M1A.  I don't think so.

One of the problems I have is getting my son and wife into shooting.  My wife has a hard time holding up any of my AR's.  So then I bought this LW upper.  Which I love!!!!!!  It balances so nice.  My 20" A2 feels really front heavy now.  But I digress, my wife can now hold this up comfortably, but she WILL NOT be able to fire this thing comfortably.  I'll have to figure something else out.  I realize she should start with a .22, and that's what I'll do.  I suppose with time, she could work up to this, but I'm not real confident she ever will.  

Any advice for a guy with a dainty wife that wants her to be able to defend herself?  I'm thinking a real soft shooting pistol may be the way to go.  Although it takes more practice to be proficient with a pistol I think.  Maybe I need to get my M1 Carbine to run real good.  It always chokes on me and I don't trust it.  But that has less recoil than an AR and it's light.  Hmmmmmm........

Okay then!!!  Sell it and get something even MORE domesticated!

I have to agree that the AR is not ideal for young ones and the wife. Two of my sisters have both shot the M4 standing and from a bench (really hated the bench) and the recoil was a little much, maybe not enough to hurt but uncomfortable for them. A .22lr seems to suit them the best as there really is no recoil there.  

All kidding aside.  The prone position will definately do that to you...  Being that you're using more of the less meaty area of the upper quadrant of your shoulder when prone.

Wait 'til you try supine.  the lower corner of the stock really loves tenderizing your shoulder.

It's been 19 years so my recollection may be fuzzy, but a friend took me out 19 years ago to shoot his Baretta AR70 and my recollection is that it had less recoil than the two AR15s I've shot.  I remember it having very light recoil.

My wife loves her lightweight AR, and she has the same difficulties holding a heavier one, and has recoil sensitivity.

At least let her try it, and decide.

As to the loud report.  The short barrel, and amount of unburned powder, along with higher gas pressure behind the bullet at the muzzle may have something to do with it.

A 20" M1 has exhausted most of it's fuel by the time the bullet reaches the muzzle.

I get those marks on my shouder sometimes when I dry fire just from slinging in tight.  Or from carrying the rifle on a sling all day without firing.  It is usually from where my shirt bunches up.

I do acknowledg that there is recoil there.  But not so much that as to be disagreeablr=e to most inexperienced shooters.  (Even the tip of my nose getting bumped by the Charging handle isn't bad).

That bruising/abrasion isn't unusual.

And who says an AR has NO recoil?

Would a ceiner .22 kit help to ease the comfort curve? I was out shooting mine yesteday. Usually I start with .22 then put a few full-powers down the bbl afterward. Yesterday I was troubleshooting and shot 5.56 first then .22. Wow , it was like shooting nothing - sense of NO recoil and quiet.
It may be comfortable for her , get her started on the same platform and provide inexpensive practice for all. Less $$ than a new rifle too - more $$ for ammo!!!

MY GF loves shooting my ARs - and she's good too. But she is not dainty - in attitude or physique.

-JC

Recoil!!!!  

I get bruises like that from the shoulder strap on a duffle bag!

Well I think the "no recoil" comments are meant as "compared to other centerfire rifles". Yes, the 5.56mm AR does have some recoil but really, what other common centerfire rifle has less recoil? None that I've shot or can think of? Even a .223 bolt gun will have more kick because it doesn't have a buffer system like the AR which does lesson the recoil.

I know you didn't want to hear about technique but looking at where those marks are, I would say you are not mounting the rifle correctly either. You want the stock more on your chest and less on your shoulder. That will help your body absorb the recoil more.

As far as getting your wife and son into shooting, you need to start them off on .22LR, especially your 8yo son because unless he is very large for his age, an AR15 with a fixed stock is too large for him. Even if it's not, a .22LR is the right way (IMO) for a new shooter to start. That way they can focus on sight alignment, breathing and trigger control without worrying about recoil or developing a flinch. Any .22LR will work at first (the Ruger 10/22 probably being your best bet if you have to buy one) or if you want to spend the extra money and start their "AR" training sooner, you can get a .22LR conversion or dedicated .22LR upper for your current AR.

After they have mastered the basics (or at least become proficient at them) then they can move up to the 5.56mm AR. When they do, they will have to realize that it will have some recoil and they will have to learn to deal with it. Your wife may be tiny but I've seen some really small woman shooting rifles with a lot more kick then an AR without issue. Its just one of those things that mentally, she will have to get over. No way around that. The only thing you could do to make your carbine shoot any softer would be to convert to either a mid-length or rifle gas system but even then, the reduction in recoil will be minor at best.

Quoted: Quoted: Any advice for a guy with a dainty wife that wants her to be able to defend herself? Buy her an M1 Carbine.

I may have to send you mine.  I have a standard products and love that thing.  But I can't make it through a range session without it choking.  I bought a like new mag, I rebuilt 3 others.  I rebuilt the bolt.  I replaced the op slide spring.....  You know, maybe I need a new mag catch spring.  Hmmmmmmmm......

For my son and my wife, this would be a good option as I have a 10/22 for learning and this would be a step up from that.  And it definitely has less recoil than an AR carbine.  I love to shoot those things.  Mine always seems to be real accurate out to 50 yards.  

Oh, yeah a heavy buffer can make a difference in recoil as well.

Ciener .22 adapter = no recoil.

Try one of those for practice and plinking with your family.

Quoted: And don't give me Technique BS.

OK.

Quoted: I have to agree that the AR is not ideal for young ones...........

Below is my daughter at age 8, shooting my sons carbine. During her shooting, I held the hand guards as a safety precaution to keep her pointed down range, but she did the rest on her own.

ETA: Eight years old and no crying, no wining about recoil, and no bruises you pansies!    

How tall are you?  It may be a stock/fit issue, too.  Those "rasberries" look like they're pretty high up on your shoulder and not down in the "pocket" of your shoulder.

If your arms are too short for that butt stock you might benefit from either a collapsible stock or an A1 but stock (they are an inch or so shorter than the A2's).

That butt plate should really be down on your shoulder some (on the area padded by skin/muscle) not up on that bone.

As far as the recoil thing goes, I went through basic/AIT at a time when the Drill Sgts. would put an M16A1 on their chin/nose or crotch and shoot it full auto to "show their is (little to) no recoil".

Buy her another dress that the two of you can share?  

Just kidding!  

Try the Primary Sysems FSC556 muzzle brake/flash hider combo.  Throw in a nice butt stock pad (like the little girl appears to be shooting with) and 9mm buffer.  Any rifle is going to have recoil and something more than a t-shrt at the range might help too.  You can find all of these things pretty cheap new in the Equipment Exchange forum.

First though, start them out with a cheap Ruger 10/22 or some other .22LR as others have suggested.  It will ease fears and build confidence - otherwise they will be timid and scared.  

happy fathers day, quib..... you da man.

Quoted: Quoted: I have to agree that the AR is not ideal for young ones........... Below is my daughter at age 8, shooting my sons carbine. During her shooting, I held the hand guards as a safety precaution to keep her pointed down range, but she did the rest on her own. ETA: Eight years old and no crying, no wining about recoil, and no bruises you pansies!     img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/100_3320.jpg

I think the part you missed is the "not ideal". It's great that you let her shoot it and that the recoil didn't bother her but if you have to stand there and hold it for her then it's not an "ideal" way for her to learn.

My son has always been a big boy for his age and at 8yo, he could have easily held and shot an AR without any assistance but in my mind, why? At that age and point in his life, all he needs to be doing is learning the basics and no round is better for that then the .22LR IMO

Quoted: Quoted: I have to agree that the AR is not ideal for young ones........... Below is my daughter at age 8, shooting my sons carbine. During her shooting, I held the hand guards as a safety precaution to keep her pointed down range, but she did the rest on her own. ETA: Eight years old and no crying, no wining about recoil, and no bruises you pansies!     img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/100_3320.jpg

While she can shoot it, have to agree that it is not, as stated in his post, "Ideal" for young ones.  

Go shoot an M1 Garand from the bench just using sand bags and then not pay attention to how close the side of your chest/Pec is to the bench .....and then....have the metal buttplate pinch the living crap outta the edge of your pec against the bench under 30.06 recoil


anyway, yes AR's have recoil, just not as much as other rifle caliber's. Especially with the buffer and spring set up AR's use.

Drop a .22LR kit in your AR for the family and work them up to 5.56/.223.

I've never thought of the AR as a heavy recoil round. Mine is an LE6920 with the collapsible stock and I've added the rubber butt pad from Bushmaster for better grip to my shoulder without the sharp edges of the plastic  stock. My son shot my old Govnt. Carbine with the same butt pad when he was 10 years old and after getting used to the loud report of the round he was amazed it didn't kick as bad as he had anticipated. The adjustable stock makes it easier for the smaller shooters to find a comfortable position. Try a 20 round mag out of an AR10T 16" carbine (.308) like mine then go back to the .223 and you'll see a BIG difference.  

i will say my 11.5  AR has more recoli and report then a 20 inch. but at a recent trip to the range 3 pts down a guy was teaching  2 very petite young women how to shoot his AR and 1911, neither seemed to have any issues and both were wearing tank tops.. maybe try a differant buffer.

Recoil, the amount of it atleast, is subjective to your experience.  There have been times I have caught myself flinching after shooting nothing but an AR for several weeks.  

My remedy is to get the 12 ga and go do some skeet then put about ten rounds thru the 375 h&h, after that there is no flinch and no recoil.  Its all perspective.


BTW ITS ALWAYS GOOS TO SEE PICS OF MEMBERS OUT SHOOTING THERE RIFLES

I wouldnt say no recoil but compared to my M14 and AK...yea an AR has no recoil.Shooting with a lightweight shirt will do that with the checkering of the but plate.A rubber recoil pad will help but I think you just need a shorter legnth of pull like you can get from a telestock.From the bruises it looks a bit high on the shoulder.

That looks like abrasion from the butt plate .... next time fold a towel and protect your delicate bony shoulder.....

You're a bleeder.

pussys

Dunno how you got all them marks with the ar-15 *scratches head*  now I know my AR-10 will give you a sore shoulder, but the ar-15's recoil isn't near enough, and even shooting 300 rounds seems fine...think my hands take more of the recoil than my shoulder

What about a 9mm carbine for your wife?  My girlfriend complains about .223 hurting her shoulder as well.  A friend's AR, that she's shot has a C.A.R. stock with the hard plastic end.  I converted a cheap Hi Point carbine into an ATI stock that somewhat looks like the Berretta Cx4 a while back.  The girlfriend loves it.  She pulls the trigger all day long without flinching with that thing.  

Oh yeah, anyone ever try those recoil pads that mount on the end of the buttstock?

You might consider working out an putting some meat on your frame.  Those bruises are caused by the buttstock smashing thin muscle tissue against solid bone.

1.  Centerfire rifle, not rimfire plinker or BB gun.  For a rifle, it has NO RECOIL.

2.  Scrawny shoulder, do some pushups...marine corps boot camp highly recommended...it will build up that wing, while teaching you how insignificant that tiny little bruise is.  As was said before, a duffle bag will make more of a mark without the ability to kill people at 500 yards.  You need to keep in mind that this rifle is not a toy, it is a weapon...when people say no recoil, they mean no recoil for a rifle of its capability...and they are correct.

3.  My 107lb sig other can fire the AR all day long without complaint, your "technique BS" is questionable.  See suggestion number 2 for a way to learn proper technique.

4.  Some people bruise very easily, while others do not.  I seriously doubt there was any pain involved...

5.  Buy the wife a 10/22

6.  Buy the baby a dollie and if she's not old enough to fire a mansized rifle...don't put it in her hands.  

7.  Take most of the above as sunday morning humor, good natured ribbing...based in fact.

8.  Have a great day.

for real?


if you look it up, you will see that the recoil is a little under 5ft lbs for a 62grn bullet out of a 6lbs weapon give or take.
in comparison a 9mm pistol sits around 7 or 8 ft lbs with 124grn pills.  
i don't know man, its got to be you.

Quoted: You're a bleeder.

And I hate bleeders.  Trivia; what movie?  Starts with a "V" and it's about wrestling.  I forget the opponents name.  I should be working out with a log like that guy.

Couple things here.  

I was shooting mostly prone, which is why the marks are where they are.  Which I already covered.

That IS an A1 stock, it's not about fit for me.  Yes, that stock will be too long for my son.  My son shot it with a different lower and an adjustable buttstock.

Quib, your family can beat up my family, no doubt about it.

I was thinking about a 9mm, but I've heard others say the recoil is almost as stout, because it's a blowback operation.  Not gas.  An M1 carbine is a gas system and that softens some of the recoil.

I'm going to order a 9mm buffer and put my telestock back on there, but the buffer in there with the fixed stock is the heaviest you can get.

I guess the shoulder thing isn't the best way to approach this subject.  I have a garand and M1A and always felt them to be manageable.  To me, those have more of a heavy push.  Where as this carbine has more of a sharp snap.  Kind of like the difference between a .45 and a .40.  Or so I'm told.  (I don't own a .40)  Either way, it's fine for me, but I know my wife would have a hard time with it.  But I've got some good ideas to help with this.

Do those rubber butt pads that you slide over your tele stock do anything?  It always annoys me when rubber is so sticky it kind of gets hung up when positioning on your shoulder.  But, I could see if you're shooting alot of rounds, it may give you a little relief.

Quoted: Go shoot an M1 Garand from the bench just using sand bags and then not pay attention to how close the side of your chest/Pec is to the bench .....and then....have the metal buttplate pinch the living crap outta the edge of your pec against the bench under 30.06 recoil anyway, yes AR's have recoil, just not as much as other rifle caliber's. Especially with the buffer and spring set up AR's use. Drop a .22LR kit in your AR for the family and work them up to 5.56/.223.

When I read this I had to double check and make sure it wasn't one of my own posts lol. I have had the same thing happen with my M1 Garand and it can leave some nasty pinch marks and blisters. At least my 7mm Magnum doesn't bite the crap out of me now and then lol.

My 105 pound girlfriend has never once complained about shooting my bushmaster xm15 the only reason I have her shooting it with a Ciener now is that she was eating up all of my .223 ammo. I have her shoot Aguila 60gr. Sub-Sonic Sniper .22lr ammo, its quite very low recoil, and the 60gr. bullet is perfect for the 1/9 and faster barrel twists.

I have marks like those on my shoulder year round but have not noticed any new ones appear after shooting my Ar-15s. Mostly come from higher caliber rifles.

You bruise easy.

I blasted through 500 rounds in one afternoon awhile back & didn't look like that.

Get rid of that goofy A-1 stock you love so blindly and get a adjustable with a rubber but pad... problem solved.
It fits you, and can be fitted to the Wife and Son...

You got to many sacred cows in need of butchering....

I had that last outting, My wife thought I was getting some.

That's nothing. Ignore it. The 5.56/.223 has about the lightest recoil you'll find in a centerfire round. If you can't handle it, about all you can do is move to rimfire. The service rounds your dad and granddad used (30-06; .308) recoiled with many, many times the energy of the piddling 5.56. So get used to it, or get a rimfire.

Hey JJ, you are such a wus.

You do need some meat on your bones. That would help with the cushioning. It works for me. Seriously, I would consider the collapsible stock with a rubber buttpad added to it. It should be a lot more comfortable.

Cuz

LoL @ this thread

My wife shoots the .223 and .308 with no problems, sexy and tough!

Wimp.



But in all seriousness, get behind a .300 Win Mag or a 12 Gauge and get back to us.

Dainty Wife?

My wife is 4'11", and weighs about 90lbs.  She shoots my AR's just fine, till she gets tired.  But then again, she is tough, from a foriegn country, and knows enough about shooting to like my XD45 better than my friend's .380, so take that with a grain of salt.

.sean

Tex78

JJREA, I aint even gonna say it...

Quoted: Recoil!!!!   I get bruises like that from the shoulder strap on a duffle bag!

Bingo!!!!  Give that man a beer!

To JJREA: I get brusies like that from carrying heavy tool bags full of grinders, hammers, dogs, wedges, airhoses, steel, etc, to my worksite, not from shooting.

When I first took my boy shooting at the age of 6, he shot the AR and an M1 carbine with no problems, and last year when he was 10, he blasted through 8 AR mags, 6 AK mags (7.62x39), and then dumped 15 round downrange through a Mosin M44 and didn't have that kind of bruising. I was expecting him to be sore as hell and all fucked up for the rest of the weekend, but he said he had a slight sore spot, and I saw no bruises every time I checked.

It IS your technique, and you are holding the rifle in very tight to cause that kind of "strap bruising".

Wow, I guess we won't see you at perry or shooting trap/skeet any time soon. You have chicken wings and bruise very easily. Any rifle launching a projectile has "recoil", even a 22lr or an air rifle. I can't imagine what one would have to do to get bruised up from an AR but maybe that's because I have a bit more meat on my wings. I shoot very heavy recoiling rifles routinely using a "free-recoil" technique and do get a small bruise occasionally but I can shoot a 6# 45-70 with 300gr bullets @2200 FPS and not get bruises that bad.

Sorry to break the news to you but your "technique" needs work.

No offense intended.

height=8

Quoted: height=8 Quoted: You're a bleeder. And I hate bleeders.  Trivia; what movie?  Starts with a "V" and it's about wrestling.  I forget the opponents name.  I should be working out with a log like that guy. Couple things here.   I was shooting mostly prone, which is why the marks are where they are.  Which I already covered. That IS an A1 stock, it's not about fit for me.  Yes, that stock will be too long for my son.  My son shot it with a different lower and an adjustable buttstock. Quib, your family can beat up my family, no doubt about it. hinking I'm going to order a 9mm buffer and put my telestock back on there, but the buffer in there with the fixed stock is the heaviest you can get. I guess the shoulder thing isn't the best way to approach this subject.  I have a garand and M1A and always felt them to be manageable.  To me, those have more of a heavy push.  Where as this carbine has more of a sharp snap.  Kind of like the difference between a .45 and a .40.  Or so I'm told.  (I don't own a .40)  Either way, it's fine for me, but I know my wife would have a hard time with it.  But I've got some good ideas to help with this. Do those rubber butt pads that you slide over your tele stock do anything?  It always annoys me when rubber is so sticky it kind of gets hung up when positioning on your shoulder.  But, I could see if you're shooting alot of rounds, it may give you a little relief.

What is Vision Quest for 400 Alex?

You're a wimp!!!!

1) it has no recoil as far as I and most people on this forum are concerned.
2) you can bitch about bruising when it goes from your pec to bicep (200 rounds of 00 in a mossberg 590 in an afternoon wearing only a camo top)
3) you and your wife need to hit the gym. if she can not hold up an AR then she needs to do some curls. You need to hit the weights and get some meat between that butt pad and bone.
4) my 5' 110lb female roommate owns a Mosin and fires it often with no bruises or complaints. She has no issues with any of my AR variants.
5) thats NOT a bruise
6) sell your AR's and buy some 10/22's. Hell, I will even trade you cause I am such a nice guy.

Quoted:
60 rounds of American Eagle (40 prone and 20 standing) did this:

Bla, Bla, Bla.........You want a small pair of sissors.........






To trim you P*%#SY hairs