Lightweight 14.5" barrels please!

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Lightweight 14.5" barrels please! (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 7/3/2005 5:42:24 AM EDT

Could someone please start manufacturing LW 14.5" 1/7 chrome lined 5.56 chamber barrels? This would be the shizzle with a permantent vortex for a handy carbine. If anyone has swung a sub 6 pound 6520 around, that's almost as good as what I'm talking about. The shorter barrel would also be stiffer.

16 inch LW barrels don't have the nice collar behind the FH when cut back.

Unlike most members of the board, evidently, I don't own a select fire lower or an M203 so I don't need an M4/M4A1 profile barrel.

Posted: 7/3/2005 5:52:08 AM EDT

[#1]

Just IMO, but I find the whole 14.5" barrel thing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. The permament attach procedure is a PITA, whichever you choose and the removal process is even more or a PITA, if you decide to change something. Other than being able to attach a bayonet, and be honest with yourself and everybody else - how often is that even an issue - a 14.5" barrel does nothing that a 16" barrel does.

You could always have someone turn down an M4 barrel to your specs or shorten a Colt pencil barrel. You'd get one alot quicker than waiting for somebody to mass produce one.

Posted: 7/3/2005 5:54:47 AM EDT

[#2]

The permament attach procedure is a PITA, whichever you choose and the removal process is even more or a PITA, if you decide to change something.

i agree, more trouble than what its worth

Posted: 7/3/2005 7:02:51 AM EDT

[#3]

I hear permanently attached flash hider and it just makes me cringe to think of the problems it will cause down the road if you ever want to change something. I would say stick with the 16", it gives you so much more versatility and you can get almost any profile imaginable these days.

Matt

Posted: 7/3/2005 7:12:03 AM EDT

[#4]

What I would much rather see is a lightweight profile 16" barrel with a midlength gas system.

Posted: 7/3/2005 7:59:17 AM EDT

[#5]

I second the call for a factory 14.5" barrel.

If I want to change something later on, I'll buy another barrel, swap uppers, etc.

Posted: 7/3/2005 8:05:29 AM EDT

[#6]

Its an added expense and trouble to have the flash hider removed and reinstalled by a gunsmith but you get a lighter and handier package with the 14.5" barrel. To me its worth the small inconvenience if I decide to swap forearms or something. Dropping over 3oz of barrel weight from the nose of the rifle changes handling and balance dramatically. If you put say a DD rail on the rifle before pinning the flash hider on why would you need to remove the flash hider before the barrel wears out? If you have one of the uppers that can quick change barrels why would you care if the flash hider was pinned?

I can only see a very few reasons the 16" is a better choice. None of these apply to me.

Posted: 7/3/2005 8:05:45 AM EDT

[#7]

I would love to find a nice 4150, 1/7, LW barrel for sale.

Posted: 7/3/2005 8:48:28 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Just IMO, but I find the whole 14.5" barrel thing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. The permament attach procedure is a PITA, whichever you choose and the removal process is even more or a PITA, if you decide to change something. Other than being able to attach a bayonet, and be honest with yourself and everybody else - how often is that even an issue - a 14.5" barrel does nothing that a 16" barrel does.

Different strokes for different folks. It's not your bag--that's fine. That's the beauty of the AR platform. If there's enough demand, it will be produced. Look at the high demand for the RRA 14.7" M4 profile barrels. Those folks don't mind a permanent A2. Frankly I think the M4 profile is ridiculous for the civilian market.

Some view the AR as a simple, effective, light weight weapon and want to keep it that way. I (and others) would be well served with a A2 upper carbine with collapsible stock and LW 14.5" barrel. I'm one of the few who doesn't go shopping for the latest greatest forend every 6 months--so the permanent flash hider is fine for me.

Others haven't satisified their insecurities until they've mounted everything that can fit onto this little rifle. The current direction some are taking the AR carbine to is ridiculous: Fashionable color coordinated stocks, grips, vertical forend grips, rails covers, mag followers, and slings. The latest uber tactical free floating rail (that goes past the front sight for the next accessory you don't have room for). Fold down front sights. Single point sling plates. Heavy profile barrels (on a non-full auto carbine!) with M203 cuts which will never be used. Mag cinchers, mag-pulls, "improved" followers and springs. Laser target illuminators, red dot sights, magnification scopes for red dot sights, tritium back up, folding, adjustable BUISs, "tactical" lights. Stocks with compartments for spare batteries and parts. Rollmarks that have been inlayed with red/white paint. "Match triggers". The list goes on.

People stop when they have a 9 pound, battery requiring carbine with a half dozen different screws in the process of falling out. Then, and only then can they be a true Navy SEAL in their living room or at the local range.

You put enough weight on the front of a rifle, you'll get a workout from just holding it up. (Might even dehydrate you enough in hot weather to the point where that kidney stone rears its ugly little head

Posted: 7/3/2005 8:52:41 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Just IMO, but I find the whole 14.5" barrel thing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. The permament attach procedure is a PITA, whichever you choose and the removal process is even more or a PITA, if you decide to change something. Other than being able to attach a bayonet, and be honest with yourself and everybody else - how often is that even an issue - a 14.5" barrel does nothing that a 16" barrel does.

We've had this conversation before but my opinion on this is the exact opposite of yours. IMO the "PITA" aspect of permanently attaching a FH is way over rated for the average user. Most people do not switch their configurations as often as you or some others here.

I personally would rather have the barrel as short as possible (without SBR'ing it) but as always, YMMV and this is just my $.02

Posted: 7/3/2005 8:54:52 AM EDT

[#10]

I cut a bushy SLW barrel to 15", Permenently attached A2 FH (Brings the total to just over 16" OAL), One sweet LW barrel!!

Posted: 7/3/2005 10:16:38 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
What I would much rather see is a lightweight profile 16" barrel with a midlength gas system.

I have been thinking that for months. I'm not holding my breath though. Maybe Denny will do a run for us (hint, hint).

Posted: 7/3/2005 11:44:17 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
You put enough weight on the front of a rifle, you'll get a workout from just holding it up. (Might even dehydrate you enough in hot weather to the point where that kidney stone rears its ugly little head ).

Now that is a fact.

But, the 1.5" of barrel woudn't have made that much of a difference in that particular case or in any case at all, unless you are going for the super-ultra-lightweight build. Maybe removing the SF light may have helped me that day, as that was really the only thing extra on the end of my rifle at that time, but I'm a stubborn old brute and was determined to tough it out. Hell, I am running a Colt 16" M4 profile barrel (the light profile one) with a DD 7.0 - it doesn't get too much lighter than that.

Posted: 7/3/2005 4:00:52 PM EDT

[#13]

My Bushy 16" bbl with a Phantom measured just shy of 18" total length.

When I cut it to 14.5, I cut it so the total length with the pinned Phantom would be 16.1".

It saved me 2" at the muzzle end of the rifle.

Some of us want the shortest rifle allowed by law without having to get a stamp.

When I cut the Bushy barrel, I pinned and welded a new Phantom. Then I bought a 7 twist barrel and removed the pinned FH from the Bushy barrel to use on the new barrel. I decided to get rid of the 7 twist barrel, so I took the FH off of it and re-installed it on the orignal Bushy barrel.

So I have the same Phantom FH that has been installed three times and removed twice. All in the course of about 2 months. Not too damn hard to do, if your somewhat mechanically inclined.

edited to add: A 14.5 lightweight would be sweet.

Posted: 7/3/2005 4:04:09 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
You put enough weight on the front of a rifle, you'll get a workout from just holding it up. (Might even dehydrate you enough in hot weather to the point where that kidney stone rears its ugly little head ).

Now that is a fact.

But, the 1.5" of barrel woudn't have made that much of a difference in that particular case or in any case at all, unless you are going for the super-ultra-lightweight build. Maybe removing the SF light may have helped me that day, as that was really the only thing extra on the end of my rifle at that time, but I'm a stubborn old brute and was determined to tough it out. Hell, I am running a Colt 16" M4 profile barrel (the light profile one) with a DD 7.0 - it doesn't get too much lighter than that.

Try a Colt Lightweight barreled gun, I don't know how much but They feel much lighter than the M4s to me.
If really light is what you are after try a Bushy 15" Superlight (Cut to 15" with A2 FH welded on), I built one & it feels extremly light compared to any other AR carbine I have felt.

Posted: 7/3/2005 4:50:28 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You put enough weight on the front of a rifle, you'll get a workout from just holding it up. (Might even dehydrate you enough in hot weather to the point where that kidney stone rears its ugly little head ).

Now that is a fact.

But, the 1.5" of barrel woudn't have made that much of a difference in that particular case or in any case at all, unless you are going for the super-ultra-lightweight build. Maybe removing the SF light may have helped me that day, as that was really the only thing extra on the end of my rifle at that time, but I'm a stubborn old brute and was determined to tough it out. Hell, I am running a Colt 16" M4 profile barrel (the light profile one) with a DD 7.0 - it doesn't get too much lighter than that.

Try a Colt Lightweight barreled gun, I don't know how much but They feel much lighter than the M4s to me.
If really light is what you are after try a Bushy 15" Superlight (Cut to 15" with A2 FH welded on), I built one & it feels extremly light compared to any other AR carbine I have felt.

You mean like this one????:

It was my backup and only has about 200 rounds or so through it, not enough for me to trust it as a primary in the training class.

Posted: 7/3/2005 7:28:00 PM EDT

[#16]

The extra couple of ounces of that 1.5" of barrel aren't that bad. Having the ability to change out the flash suppressor is nice as is using standard bayonets. That extra 1.5" also gives you a few important more yards of tumble ability from your ammo too.

Posted: 7/3/2005 8:26:36 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
The extra couple of ounces of that 1.5" of barrel aren't that bad. Having the ability to change out the flash suppressor is nice as is using standard bayonets. That extra 1.5" also gives you a few important more yards of tumble ability from your ammo too.

When was the last time you needed a bayonet?

Posted: 7/3/2005 8:30:26 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
The extra couple of ounces of that 1.5" of barrel aren't that bad. Having the ability to change out the flash suppressor is nice as is using standard bayonets. That extra 1.5" also gives you a few important more yards of tumble ability from your ammo too.

Bayonets DO NOT FIT on a 16" barrel.
They DO FIT 14.5" barrels.
Try it & see for yourself.
Then check out how handy the shorter guns are, The inch & a half makes a big difference!!

Posted: 7/4/2005 5:36:09 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The extra couple of ounces of that 1.5" of barrel aren't that bad. Having the ability to change out the flash suppressor is nice as is using standard bayonets. That extra 1.5" also gives you a few important more yards of tumble ability from your ammo too.

Bayonets DO NOT FIT on a 16" barrel.
They DO FIT 14.5" barrels.
Try it & see for yourself.
Then check out how handy the shorter guns are, The inch & a half makes a big difference!!

If you absolutely feel the need, they do make bayonets that fit 16" barrels, so that is hardly a make or break decision on the 14.5" vs. 16" issue. Hell, they even make a bayonet that will fit a dissy setup.

You're fooling yourself if you think the 14.5" + perm. FH is any more mobile than a 16" + an A2 FH. The difference in length between the two setups is less than an inch and the difference in weight can't be more than a few ounces. If you are operating in conditions where an inch makes all that much difference, why not go to a Commando setup??

Posted: 7/4/2005 6:51:04 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The extra couple of ounces of that 1.5" of barrel aren't that bad. Having the ability to change out the flash suppressor is nice as is using standard bayonets. That extra 1.5" also gives you a few important more yards of tumble ability from your ammo too.

Bayonets DO NOT FIT on a 16" barrel.
They DO FIT 14.5" barrels.
Try it & see for yourself.
Then check out how handy the shorter guns are, The inch & a half makes a big difference!!

If you absolutely feel the need, they do make bayonets that fit 16" barrels, so that is hardly a make or break decision on the 14.5" vs. 16" issue. Hell, they even make a bayonet that will fit a dissy setup.

You're fooling yourself if you think the 14.5" + perm. FH is any more mobile than a 16" + an A2 FH. The difference in length between the two setups is less than an inch and the difference in weight can't be more than a few ounces. If you are operating in conditions where an inch makes all that much difference, why not go to a Commando setup??

No one is fooling anyone, We are Just giving Opinions!
Remember, The author of the thread is asking for a 14.5" LW profile barrel!

Posted: 7/4/2005 6:58:22 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The extra couple of ounces of that 1.5" of barrel aren't that bad. Having the ability to change out the flash suppressor is nice as is using standard bayonets. That extra 1.5" also gives you a few important more yards of tumble ability from your ammo too.

Bayonets DO NOT FIT on a 16" barrel.
They DO FIT 14.5" barrels.
Try it & see for yourself.
Then check out how handy the shorter guns are, The inch & a half makes a big difference!!

If you absolutely feel the need, they do make bayonets that fit 16" barrels, so that is hardly a make or break decision on the 14.5" vs. 16" issue. Hell, they even make a bayonet that will fit a dissy setup.

You're fooling yourself if you think the 14.5" + perm. FH is any more mobile than a 16" + an A2 FH. The difference in length between the two setups is less than an inch and the difference in weight can't be more than a few ounces. If you are operating in conditions where an inch makes all that much difference, why not go to a Commando setup??

Because people who use longer flash hiders wont go to the inferior A2 just because they use a 16" barrel. Difference in length is still 1.5" which is HUGE in a car or tight hallway. All the weight is cantelevered at the WORST spot for making the rifle nose heavy. I can pick up tow rifles with my eyes closed and EASILY tell which is the 14.5" and which is the 16" rifle. They dont go to a Commando becasue thats an SBR. If they have an SBR that removes the negatives of the 14.5" down to NONE. There is no reaso to have a 16" rifle for anything but a precision rig in my mind at that point.

Posted: 7/4/2005 9:16:56 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The extra couple of ounces of that 1.5" of barrel aren't that bad. Having the ability to change out the flash suppressor is nice as is using standard bayonets. That extra 1.5" also gives you a few important more yards of tumble ability from your ammo too.

Bayonets DO NOT FIT on a 16" barrel.
They DO FIT 14.5" barrels.
Try it & see for yourself.
Then check out how handy the shorter guns are, The inch & a half makes a big difference!!

If you absolutely feel the need, they do make bayonets that fit 16" barrels, so that is hardly a make or break decision on the 14.5" vs. 16" issue. Hell, they even make a bayonet that will fit a dissy setup.

You're fooling yourself if you think the 14.5" + perm. FH is any more mobile than a 16" + an A2 FH. The difference in length between the two setups is less than an inch and the difference in weight can't be more than a few ounces. If you are operating in conditions where an inch makes all that much difference, why not go to a Commando setup??

Because people who use longer flash hiders wont go to the inferior A2 just because they use a 16" barrel.

And how often is that an issue? How many night shooters we have here? And is the difference that large to be an issue. How many USGI night shooters do you see out there with nothing more than an A2? Be real.

Difference in length is still 1.5" which is HUGE in a car or tight hallway.

And how often is that an issue? The difference is less than 1.5" because there is a difference in length between a Vortex/Phantom and the A2, about a half inch, so the total difference length comes out to just under an inch. Also, almost every real shooter here states that even a 14.5" barrel is too long for use in a Humvee, much less a car. And how many of us here are shooting out of cars? Be real.

All the weight is cantelevered at the WORST spot for making the rifle nose heavy. I can pick up tow rifles with my eyes closed and EASILY tell which is the 14.5" and which is the 16" rifle.

The difference in weight is so small, it is negligable. Calculate the difference between the Phantom/Vortex and an A2 and factor that into your weight difference. As far as being able to tell the difference between a 14.5" and a 16" with your eyes closed, that's total BS. This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've heard on ARFCOM in a while. Be real.

They dont go to a Commando becasue thats an SBR. If they have an SBR that removes the negatives of the 14.5" down to NONE. There is no reaso to have a 16" rifle for anything but a precision rig in my mind at that point.

If your job requires you to be lurking down hallways and such, the Commando is likely an option. You're from Texas, or so your avatar states, so an SBR is an option for you. Once again, be real.

You must be some real shooter, DevL. You know a whole lot. When does school start up again?

Posted: 7/4/2005 9:46:54 AM EDT

[#23]

It's sad that we get so ugly around here so fast these days...

My comments below are ALL meant in good favor as I LOVE you guys!

I'm just a couch commando, but I honestly CAN tell the weight (more likely balance) difference between a 16" M4 and a 14.5" M4.

Perm. attached FS is NOT that big of a deal. Outside of (very good) guys like Mongo or an indecisive bugger like myself, how many folks EVER change flash suppressors or forends? Just get the forend you want and a 14.5" bbl and send it to ADCO. I think he charges $25 to attach a FS.

That muzzle velocity thing is just funny to me. Other than a paper statistic, which one of US is going to benefit from that 40 yards of perceived fragmentation difference? Remember, each shot is going to vary, depending on what it strikes etc. and you can still expect tumble and some fragmentation well beyond 2700fps.

In all fairness, shortening a SUPERLIGHT barrel to 14.5" does NOT shave off even the 3.2 ounces you get from an M4. From my math, I can only come up with 1.2 oz. (My math is based on the reported weight of a 11.5" XM177 bbl and a 16" superlight barrel... subtract weight of 11.5" from 16", divide by 4.5, multiply by 1.5

)

I've said this before, I had a 14.5" fluted bushmaster barrel, and I wanted a DD forend. I sold my bbl and bought a 16" mid and put a DD forend and Phantom on it. Well, that's been at least 2 years, and I haven't needed to remove the FSB since...

SO

I've just purchased a 16" Bushy superlight and put it together with standard HG and will be sending it off to ADCO for 14.5" and perm. Phantom install.

My biggest reasoning? plain ole ordinary LOOKS

I like the look of a 16" mid, an 18" SPR, but can't STAND all that barrel on a 16" carbine.

Just looks.

Posted: 7/4/2005 10:22:24 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I'm just a couch commando, but I honestly CAN tell the weight (more likely balance) difference between a 16" M4 and a 14.5" M4.

You are telling me that you can tell the difference between a 16.1" (14.5" with a perm. Vortex/Phantom) and 17" (16" barrel with an A2) setup, all other things being the same?

In as friendly and rib poking kind of way as possible, until I see it in person, I will call BS until I am out of breath.

Posted: 7/4/2005 12:38:06 PM EDT

[#25]

I make LW 14.5" bbls as a special order item........getting ready to gear up to make them in larger quantities as soon as we move to the new location. I have 14.5" LW Lothar Walther 1/8 twist SS barrels in process currently if any one is interested. Price is $299.95

Posted: 7/4/2005 12:54:17 PM EDT

[#26]

Do the lightweight barrels that you do as special order have the smaller diameter front sight base hole, or are they the larger A2 style? Could you give us the specs on these? I'm sure there are a few of us that would like to build a Colt 653 or a Diemaco clone...

Posted: 7/4/2005 1:18:05 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
I make LW 14.5" bbls as a special order item........getting ready to gear up to make them in larger quantities as soon as we move to the new location. I have 14.5" LW Lothar Walther 1/8 twist SS barrels in process currently if any one is interested. Price is $299.95

Cool. Got me thinking.

Posted: 7/4/2005 1:20:51 PM EDT

[#28]

Actually Diemaco makes a light weight 14.5 inch 1:7 twist barrel with M4 ramp cut, it is called the C8A2. too bad you just can't have it in the states or as a civilian in general.

I build this C8a2 barrel with a LMT upper.

Posted: 7/4/2005 1:38:13 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Actually Diemaco makes a light weight 14.5 inch 1:7 twist barrel with M4 ramp cut, it is called the C8A2. too bad you just can't have it in the states or as a civilian in general.

photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/IMG_0070_1.jpg

I build this C8a2 barrel with a LMT upper.

That looks like a 0.750" FSB profile. Is it? If so, it would be rather easy to duplicate from any old HBAR barrel. It would not be an exact quality match, but would be pretty close.

In fact, I just made something similiar out of a Colt 1/9 HBAR barrel, except I kept it at 16".

Posted: 7/4/2005 1:38:54 PM EDT

[#30]

Chen has one of the miad of C8 variants.

There where three C8A2 types floating around - he appears to have the C8 w/ the A2 (M4) chamber. these where intalled prior to the SFW/FTHB adoption after the initial Afghan trip.

IMHO the best out there - light - reliable and accurate.

Posted: 7/4/2005 3:04:17 PM EDT

[#31]

Take a look at www.eaglefirearms.net under AR15 parts then barrels. They show a 14.5 chrome lined 1:7. Read the discription, it may be what you're looking for.

Posted: 7/4/2005 3:06:08 PM EDT

[#32]

Let's be honest with ourselves. 14.5" advocates...you are not thinking clearly.

If you needed THAT short a barrel...go the SBR route.

If that is not an option...you MUST have a 16" OAL barrel.

*****

Now consider this....since you now have a 16" barrel, you have two options for gas systems: Carbine and Midlength.

Midlength wins hands down. For MANY reasons, do a SEARCH on this matter.

*****

So, now that you have a 16" Midlength set-up...you may now mount your bayonet.

Problem solved.

Posted: 7/4/2005 3:10:30 PM EDT

[#33]

Why does this debate always degenerate into people being rude to each other? What difference does it make to you what someone else runs? If you think the other guy's point of view is stupid, why can't you just be happy with that? What is so deficient in your life that you have to insult people on the internet about it?

I have one of each, a 16" LW barrel and a 14.5" M4 barrel with permanently attached Bilock. I see the relative merits of both systems, and am glad that I live in a country where I have the freedom to own both.

Happy 4th of July folks.

Posted: 7/4/2005 3:38:06 PM EDT

[#34]

You are telling me that you can tell the difference between a 16.1" (14.5" with a perm. Vortex/Phantom) and 17" (16" barrel with an A2) setup, all other things being the same?

You're an intelligent guy... a machinist, so numbers mean something to you. I did say I could tell the difference between the BALANCE between a 14.5" and 16" M4. There's 3.2 ounces difference between the two.

NOW

It is 24" from the front of the pistol grip (fulcrum) to the end of the barrel. That extra 3.2oz on a 16" bbl is 3.2oz of extra resistance. The force is applied at the rear of the pistol grip, which is approximately 2" to the rear of the fulcrum... Therefore the RESISTANCE arm is 12x longer than the EFFORT arm, and therefore the extra 3.2oz becomes 38.4 ounces or 2.4lb of force on the end of the 16" barrel compared to the 14.5".

Of course holding the rifle also by the forend reduces that significantly, but I CAN tell. (I did just that with my old 14.5" and my buddy's RRA a while back at the range. I could tell.

You're the coolest though Mongo

Let's be honest with ourselves. 14.5" advocates...you are not thinking clearly.

If you needed THAT short a barrel...go the SBR route.

If that is not an option...you MUST have a 16" OAL barrel.

*****

Now consider this....since you now have a 16" barrel, you have two options for gas systems: Carbine and Midlength.

Midlength wins hands down. For MANY reasons, do a SEARCH on this matter.

*****

So, now that you have a 16" Midlength set-up...you may now mount your bayonet.

Problem solved.

I'm not "thinking clearly"? What in the WORLD are you talking about? If you want a 16" barrel, have one... hell, have TWO! I already stated that I WANT (not "need", WANT) a 14.5" barrel... I ALREADY HAVE a 16" mid-length barrel, and I LOVE it, but NOW I WANT the SHORTEST, LIGHTEST rifle I can LEGALLY have WITHOUT spending the $200 for an SBR (right now anyways).

It's just CRAZY to say someone isn't "thinking clearly" because they don't think like you do... or because their wants or needs differ from your own. Mine was a CLEARLY THOUGHT OUT decision to buy ANOTHER AR15! (i.e. GET BOTH

)

I could care LESS about a bayonet BTW. I want one because I WANT one... end of story... NOT for clearing hallways, NOT for shooting zombies, NOT for SHTF riding in my truck shooting terrorists out the window... I just WANT it.

Posted: 7/4/2005 3:39:45 PM EDT

[#35]

I don't care if anyone feels there is an advantage to have a 16" barrel. I don't care that 1.5" makes no difference. We are all free to prefer whatever we prefer. I set out to build an M4 clone and wanted a 14.5" barrel. To me they just look better and handle better. Some people may feel differently. That is fine. I will not try to sway them either way. To each his own. It is such a trivial thing to bitch about. Sorry for the rant. Peace to all.

Posted: 7/4/2005 4:29:45 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Actually Diemaco makes a light weight 14.5 inch 1:7 twist barrel with M4 ramp cut, it is called the C8A2. too bad you just can't have it in the states or as a civilian in general.

photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/IMG_0070_1.jpg

I build this C8a2 barrel with a LMT upper.

That looks like a 0.750" FSB profile. Is it? If so, it would be rather easy to duplicate from any old HBAR barrel. It would not be an exact quality match, but would be pretty close.

In fact, I just made something similiar out of a Colt 1/9 HBAR barrel, except I kept it at 16".

To quote myself, here's the 16" Colt 1/9 HBAR I reprofiled down to a lighter weight. It looks similiar to SMGLee's barrel, as it has the 0.750" FSB profile, like I think SMGLee does.

Still need to build it into something, though.

Posted: 7/4/2005 5:49:26 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
You are telling me that you can tell the difference between a 16.1" (14.5" with a perm. Vortex/Phantom) and 17" (16" barrel with an A2) setup, all other things being the same?

You're an intelligent guy... a machinist, so numbers mean something to you. I did say I could tell the difference between the BALANCE between a 14.5" and 16" M4. There's 3.2 ounces difference between the two.

NOW

It is 24" from the front of the pistol grip (fulcrum) to the end of the barrel. That extra 3.2oz on a 16" bbl is 3.2oz of extra resistance. The force is applied at the rear of the pistol grip, which is approximately 2" to the rear of the fulcrum... Therefore the RESISTANCE arm is 12x longer than the EFFORT arm, and therefore the extra 3.2oz becomes 38.4 ounces or 2.4lb of force on the end of the 16" barrel compared to the 14.5". Of course holding the rifle also by the forend reduces that significantly, but I CAN tell. (I did just that with my old 14.5" and my buddy's RRA a while back at the range. I could tell.

You're the coolest though Mongo

Let's be honest with ourselves. 14.5" advocates...you are not thinking clearly.

If you needed THAT short a barrel...go the SBR route.

If that is not an option...you MUST have a 16" OAL barrel.

*****

Now consider this....since you now have a 16" barrel, you have two options for gas systems: Carbine and Midlength.

Midlength wins hands down. For MANY reasons, do a SEARCH on this matter.

*****

So, now that you have a 16" Midlength set-up...you may now mount your bayonet.

Problem solved.

I'm not "thinking clearly"? What in the WORLD are you talking about? If you want a 16" barrel, have one... hell, have TWO! I already stated that I WANT (not "need", WANT) a 14.5" barrel... I ALREADY HAVE a 16" mid-length barrel, and I LOVE it, but NOW I WANT the SHORTEST, LIGHTEST rifle I can LEGALLY have WITHOUT spending the $200 for an SBR (right now anyways).

It's just CRAZY to say someone isn't "thinking clearly" because they don't think like you do... or because their wants or needs differ from your own. Mine was a CLEARLY THOUGHT OUT decision to buy ANOTHER AR15! (i.e. GET BOTH )

I could care LESS about a bayonet BTW. I want one because I WANT one... end of story... NOT for clearing hallways, NOT for shooting zombies, NOT for SHTF riding in my truck shooting terrorists out the window... I just WANT it.

Thank you!

Posted: 7/4/2005 5:52:41 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Actually Diemaco makes a light weight 14.5 inch 1:7 twist barrel with M4 ramp cut, it is called the C8A2. too bad you just can't have it in the states or as a civilian in general.

photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/IMG_0070_1.jpg

I build this C8a2 barrel with a LMT upper.

That looks like a 0.750" FSB profile. Is it? If so, it would be rather easy to duplicate from any old HBAR barrel. It would not be an exact quality match, but would be pretty close.

In fact, I just made something similiar out of a Colt 1/9 HBAR barrel, except I kept it at 16".

To quote myself, here's the 16" Colt 1/9 HBAR I reprofiled down to a lighter weight. It looks similiar to SMGLee's barrel, as it has the 0.750" FSB profile, like I think SMGLee does.

img160.imageshack.us/img160/8724/dsc021589id.jpg

Still need to build it into something, though.

hey Mongo...what are the dimensions on the Colt barrel you re-profiled?

I'm getting one of those Sabre 1/7 middie Gov't profiles, and was going to re-profile the front part of the barrel in front of the gas block to a smaller diameter...

Posted: 7/4/2005 6:06:18 PM EDT

[#39]

Chen's should have a .750 gasblock as IIRC all of Diemaco's non CT guns are .750 blocked.

coldblue had a nice 14.5 C8 bbl that was near if not submoa with 69gr SMK's

Posted: 7/4/2005 6:08:42 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Actually Diemaco makes a light weight 14.5 inch 1:7 twist barrel with M4 ramp cut, it is called the C8A2. too bad you just can't have it in the states or as a civilian in general.

photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/IMG_0070_1.jpg

I build this C8a2 barrel with a LMT upper.

That looks like a 0.750" FSB profile. Is it? If so, it would be rather easy to duplicate from any old HBAR barrel. It would not be an exact quality match, but would be pretty close.

In fact, I just made something similiar out of a Colt 1/9 HBAR barrel, except I kept it at 16".

To quote myself, here's the 16" Colt 1/9 HBAR I reprofiled down to a lighter weight. It looks similiar to SMGLee's barrel, as it has the 0.750" FSB profile, like I think SMGLee does.

img160.imageshack.us/img160/8724/dsc021589id.jpg</a>

Still need to build it into something, though.

hey Mongo...what are the dimensions on the Colt barrel you re-profiled?

I'm getting one of those Sabre 1/7 middie Gov't profiles, and was going to re-profile the front part of the barrel in front of the gas block to a smaller diameter...

FWD of the FSB is 0.650", behind it is 0.700".

Posted: 7/4/2005 7:09:05 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The extra couple of ounces of that 1.5" of barrel aren't that bad. Having the ability to change out the flash suppressor is nice as is using standard bayonets. That extra 1.5" also gives you a few important more yards of tumble ability from your ammo too.

Bayonets DO NOT FIT on a 16" barrel.
They DO FIT 14.5" barrels.
Try it & see for yourself.
Then check out how handy the shorter guns are, The inch & a half makes a big difference!!

If you absolutely feel the need, they do make bayonets that fit 16" barrels, so that is hardly a make or break decision on the 14.5" vs. 16" issue. Hell, they even make a bayonet that will fit a dissy setup.

You're fooling yourself if you think the 14.5" + perm. FH is any more mobile than a 16" + an A2 FH. The difference in length between the two setups is less than an inch and the difference in weight can't be more than a few ounces. If you are operating in conditions where an inch makes all that much difference, why not go to a Commando setup??

Because people who use longer flash hiders wont go to the inferior A2 just because they use a 16" barrel.

And how often is that an issue? How many night shooters we have here? And is the difference that large to be an issue. How many USGI night shooters do you see out there with nothing more than an A2? Be real.

Difference in length is still 1.5" which is HUGE in a car or tight hallway.

And how often is that an issue? The difference is less than 1.5" because there is a difference in length between a Vortex/Phantom and the A2, about a half inch, so the total difference length comes out to just under an inch. Also, almost every real shooter here states that even a 14.5" barrel is too long for use in a Humvee, much less a car. And how many of us here are shooting out of cars? Be real.

All the weight is cantelevered at the WORST spot for making the rifle nose heavy. I can pick up tow rifles with my eyes closed and EASILY tell which is the 14.5" and which is the 16" rifle.

The difference in weight is so small, it is negligable. Calculate the difference between the Phantom/Vortex and an A2 and factor that into your weight difference. As far as being able to tell the difference between a 14.5" and a 16" with your eyes closed, that's total BS. This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've heard on ARFCOM in a while. Be real.

They dont go to a Commando becasue thats an SBR. If they have an SBR that removes the negatives of the 14.5" down to NONE. There is no reaso to have a 16" rifle for anything but a precision rig in my mind at that point.

If your job requires you to be lurking down hallways and such, the Commando is likely an option. You're from Texas, or so your avatar states, so an SBR is an option for you. Once again, be real.

You must be some real shooter, DevL. You know a whole lot. When does school start up again?

You be real. Like was previously stated the 3.2oz difference is located on the end of the fulcrum and we who use 14.5" barrels CAN tell the difference. BTW I use a Bilock. Let me know how the shorter A2 will work for me with a 16" barrel. Be real. You can also contact me for info to send me the $200 for the SBR I must obviouosly need since money has no meaning to you.

Tell me this though. What does a registered 14.5" SBR not have the 16" barrel does have other than more weight and more length?

I think you need to pull your pants up.

Posted: 7/4/2005 7:16:03 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
You be real. Like was previously stated the 3.2oz difference is located on the end of the fulcrum and we who use 14.5" barrels CAN tell the difference. BTW I use a Bilock. Let me know how the shorter A2 will work for me with a 16" barrel. Be real. You can also contact me for info to send me the $200 for the SBR I must obviouosly need since money has no meaning to you.

Tell me this though. What does a registered 14.5" SBR not have the 16" barrel does have other than more weight and more length?

You are stuck on the 3.2oz. That's the difference between the two barrels. Now subtract the difference in weight between the Phantom/Vortex and the A2. It makes that weight a little smaller.

You've got every trinket in the book or have tried it, according to your previous posts. You shoot thousands or rounds in full auto on a regular basis, according to your previous posts. You have a suppressor, which, IIRC, needs the same $200 tax stamp. Apparently, money isn't a concern of yours, according to your previous posts and this post.

By SBR I meant 11.5" Commando type, not 14.5". That 5" or so makes a huge difference in tight quarters, where the 1.5" is small or insignificant at best.

I'm being very real here. You are blowing small differences way out of proptortion.

Posted: 7/4/2005 7:37:52 PM EDT

[#43]

I think an inch and a half shorter is a welcome change.

I second that, if you are going to go perm, use a midlength FF RAS, low pro gas block, and RAS mounted flip up front sight, that way you can remove the RAS for access to the gas tube.

Bayonets will not be the thing for a pencil barrel.

Posted: 7/4/2005 7:45:38 PM EDT

[#44]

Nevermind, bad link.

Posted: 7/4/2005 8:50:20 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Quoted:
You be real. Like was previously stated the 3.2oz difference is located on the end of the fulcrum and we who use 14.5" barrels CAN tell the difference. BTW I use a Bilock. Let me know how the shorter A2 will work for me with a 16" barrel. Be real. You can also contact me for info to send me the $200 for the SBR I must obviouosly need since money has no meaning to you.

Tell me this though. What does a registered 14.5" SBR not have the 16" barrel does have other than more weight and more length?

You are stuck on the 3.2oz. That's the difference between the two barrels. Now subtract the difference in weight between the Phantom/Vortex and the A2. It makes that weight a little smaller.

You've got every trinket in the book or have tried it, according to your previous posts. You shoot thousands or rounds in full auto on a regular basis, according to your previous posts. You have a suppressor, which, IIRC, needs the same $200 tax stamp. Apparently, money isn't a concern of yours, according to your previous posts and this post.

By SBR I meant 11.5" Commando type, not 14.5". That 5" or so makes a huge difference in tight quarters, where the 1.5" is small or insignificant at best.

I'm being very real here. You are blowing small differences way out of proptortion.

IM sent to get unrelated stuff off Chen's thread

Posted: 7/4/2005 9:21:35 PM EDT

[#46]

Didn't Chen have a kick ass MRE 14.5 Diemaco gun too?

Posted: 7/5/2005 2:31:46 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Didn't Chen have a kick ass MRE 14.5 Diemaco gun too?

Wouldn't the DD 12.0 FSP be a better choice with a super light weight barrel? Why negate the light weight barrel with the relatively heavy KAC MRE. I'm a big KAC fan, but in that case, I'd probably choose the DD. Just a thought I've had numerous times. I have been tempted numerous times to do just that with my light weight carbine.

Posted: 7/5/2005 8:51:48 AM EDT

[#48]

I don't know why someone does,nt Mfg. a nice 15" Chromelined 1/7 superlightweight barrel?
I mean even lighter than the bushy so the Superlightweight guys out there can finally have what they want!
I chose 15" because with a A2 FH perm. installed it makes the barrel OAL just over 16".

Sabre, CMMG, Bushy ANyone listening!!!

Posted: 7/5/2005 9:18:48 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
I don't know why someone does,nt Mfg. a nice 15" Chromelined 1/7 superlightweight barrel?
I mean even lighter than the bushy so the Superlightweight guys out there can finally have what they want!
I chose 15" because with a A2 FH perm. installed it makes the barrel OAL just over 16".

Sabre, CMMG, Bushy ANyone listening!!!

Just for info's sake, a 0.610" solid bar of steel, 1" long weighs 1.3 oz. Now subtract the bore, which isn't there in a rifle barrel

and you are likely saving your self about 1oz of weight by going to a 15" barrel. And I'm sure all of you out there insist on bayonet lugs on your light weight rigs, so add that back on.

If you are fighting and scratching to make the super-ultra-light weight rig, I see value in this. If not, it's alot of extra effort for very little return. Actually if you are making the super-ultra light weight carbine, ditch the FH, it's not there for much anyway, for most of us, anyway.

I doubt that barrel manufacturers will retool for such a very small demand, but the squeaky wheel sometimes gets the grease, as the old saying goes.

Both the 14.5" and 15" custom build could very easily be done on an individual basis, by somebody like ADCO very quickly and for a reasonable price, so there is no need for any of the barrel manufacturers to retool to get this. It's a phone call/email away. All you need to do is supply the barrel and the FH, although I think Steve might have an A2 FH laying around somewhere.

Just food for thought.

Posted: 7/5/2005 9:40:10 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Both the 14.5" and 15" custom build could very easily be done on an individual basis

That could be said about just about any sort of barrel configuration you could think of.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Lightweight 14.5" barrels please! (Page 1 of 2)

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