Looking at the Larue free-float handguard, one can see that it does not seem to be manufactured in one piece; the base appears to be seperate from the tube. So, how are the two held together? In another thread mention was made of a "glue join"; so as not to hijack that thread I am posing the question here.
Edited to change the title of the thread, d'oh! I spelled it "Laqrue" but no one spotted it or if they did they held the Spelling Nazis in check with a tight grip

tag for answer

I was suspicious about the epoxy issue because there are small beads of hard transparent material in the interior of the tube, and what looks like a slight fillet of the same stuff where the base and tube meet. While it may be best not to know how some things are made (sausages and certain AR components!), the use of Epoxy troubles me. While I'm sure its some good stuff, I have two main problems with the stuff: it deteriorates in the presence of heat, and over time.

BTT

Anecdote that may or may not apply:  I have a old Trek road bike that has a carbon fiber/aluminum hybrid frame.  The frame tubes are carbon fiber and the frame joints are aluminum.  The joint between the tubes and joints is a simple butt joint (tubes do not have a mechanical interlock with aluminum joints) with the tubes being bonded to the ends of the aluminum with a bonding compound.  The cross-sectional thickness of this joint cannot be more than 1/8 inch.  Frame as not failed me in the thousands of miles I have put on it.  No knowledge of their ever being any recall or issues with this frame design.

Moral of story:  Bonding compounds can be very strong and durable.

I would be skeptical of any statement that claims all epoxy compounds will degrade with time and heat.  I know that bonding compounds are used often in the place of welding or riveting in numerous other industries when it is deemed cost effective.

Not saying that the stuff Larue uses is up to snuff, by any means.  However, if the bonding compound he uses is properly formulated for the designated task, it should be.

Quoted: Looking at the Larue free-float handguard, one can see that it does not seem to be manufactured in one piece; the base appears to be seperate from the tube. So, how are the two held together? In another thread mention was made of a "glue join"; so as not to hijack that thread I am posing the question here.

I was under the impression they were one piece which was an aesthtic advantage over the welded KAC and DD designs.  Can you point us to the thread stating they are not one piece?

Quoted: To my knowledge none have failed.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: To my knowledge none have failed. Watcha got? Tell me about it instead of posting silly quotes. Be a man and grow a pair. No one here will bite you.

I've got you making an assumption based on an admitted lack of knowledge. You posted to a thread were a LaRue failure was discussed, reread the thread.

I am not certain what you guys are refering to, but my Larue seemed to be one piece at the tubes.


So the pictures of the Larue 12.0

The Tube, FF Collar, Barrel Nut, Index pins and Loc-tite and Allen wrench.



And the tube

Quoted: OK so someone said that a LaRue rail failed. Can you provide pics? I can say the moon is blue, are you going to believe me or go outside and see that it is gray/white?

I thought the moon was made of cheese?

Quoted: If LaRue does have only one rail that has failed out of the thousands that Mark's company has produced then I find that completely awesome.

I agree, that is an outstanding track record.

Quoted:No one can expect any company to make perfect gear. You guys, it seems have been trying to defame and slander his product. I find that really silly concidering only one rail per Gunzilla has failed. One out of thousands!!!

Please post a quote where I spoke negatively of LaRue. Again, I think their track record is outstanding.

Quoted:Clippen went so far as to say he would rather use a Arms rail instead of a LaRue. That's really funny since it's a known fact the Sir lower rail is made from plastic and will break when dropped on a hard surface.

Clippen is entitled to his own opinion. I would never buy an ARMS SIR over a LaRue.

Quoted:If you guys don't like LaRue stuff that's OK. Just get it out in the open instead of trying to use a back handed method.

Who doesn't like LaRue? I think you should read a little more before you try to paint everyone with the same brush.

Quoted:Hell I hate the Arms Sir. But I like their sights. Have some balls man, just say what you want to say.

Quoted:Then and only then can we get down to business discussing the good and bad points of LaRue products.

Are you sure you're posting to the right thread? All that was asked is what is being used to hold the two pieces of the FF HG together. Read, reread, post...in that order.

Sorry, I nipped off for a Battlestar Galactica marathon!

Let me start by saying in no way was I putting down the Larue design. I have two of them.

I wanted to know how this product is put together. Don't read anyting else into my intent.

I was not doing a "chicken little" act and fretting that the thing whould fall apart at the slightest touch. I know many serious operators are out there using them and we have not heard of massive failure rates. Only heresay about one.

Timanator, take a close look at you handguard...from the inside. You will see that the base is in fact a seperate piece.

What I wanted to know was how it is joined to the tube.

So, why not ask Mr. Larue himself, as Boom suggests?

The answer to that question is...that thought never occured to me!

Like Napoleon said, "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by simple incompetence".

I had a question about an AR related product...so, where to get a quick answer? Why, ARFCOM of course!





ETA: In my personal experience, the epoxies I have used were less than durable. My edjumacation continues; from jason_h's post it seems that there is some good shit out there now!
Gosh! I never knew!

ETA: I'm going to bed now because it looks like they are not showing Stargate Atlantis repeats in late night this week please don't call me names behind my back while I'm gone

So Grant, any idea how the thing is put together?

I promise I won't use the information to rush my own rail system to market!

ooops, I stand corrected; see below for a detailed "insider's look" at the process. I never got past the ill tempered sea bass to actually see the inner workings of the compound.

The LaRue rails are constructed in a 408-step process that requires a zero-gravity environment, and 27 different, purpose built robots using lazers, and coordinated by a series of computers costing over $3 Billion.  Because of the zero-gravity requirement, the rails can only be made in outer space, or in LaRue's new zero-gravity chamber, which itself, had to made in zero-gravity with the 27 robots and the computers too.  

The information Gunzilla posted in his last reply was very interesting.

Why he saw fit to edit them out I have no idea...

Some of you guys act like we live in Stalinist Russia.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: To my knowledge none have failed. Watcha got? Tell me about it instead of posting silly quotes. Be a man and grow a pair. No one here will bite you. I've got you making an assumption based on an admitted lack of knowledge. You posted to a thread were a LaRue failure was discussed, reread the thread. OK so someone said that a LaRue rail failed. Can you provide pics? I can say the moon is blue, are you going to believe me or go outside and see that it is gray/white? If LaRue does have only one rail that has failed out of the thousands that Mark's company has produced then I find that completely awesome. No one can expect any company to make perfect gear. You guys, it seems have been trying to defame and slander his product. I find that really silly concidering only one rail per Gunzilla has failed. One out of thousands!!! Clippen went so far as to say he would rather use a Arms rail instead of a LaRue. That's really funny since it's a known fact the Sir lower rail is made from plastic and will break when dropped on a hard surface. If you guys don't like LaRue stuff that's OK. Just get it out in the open instead of trying to use a back handed method. Hell I hate the Arms Sir. But I like their sights. Have some balls man, just say what you want to say. Then and only then can we get down to business discussing the good and bad points of LaRue products.

These rail discussions on this board have become quite amusing. First I would like to say I was not having a problem with my forends breaking, not that they won't, I am sure that they will given the proper handling. If someone would like to provide me with a test rail, of any make or model, I would be glad to demonstrate they could become unusable. I have owned several A.R.M.S. rails, dropped the weapons, and have yet to break one. Again, not that this can't happen. I have yet to have any of my glocks go KABOOM either but I am sure some of you will attest to that as well. I was having an alignment issue. This something I have never had with an A.R.M.S. rail. I asked about the aspect of the dynamic relation to the barrel( the movement in the rail during use). Does this affect the front sight being that the rail is always moving around( even if just a little). Again, another issue I don't experience with the A.R.M.S. rail. I assume the lack of an answer means something. It seems that the lower portion of the A.R.M.S. rail flexing while the upper part (with fron BUIS attached) moving less is a positive thing, but, many of you see it differently. I don't claim to be an expert by any means, but, I think some things are obvious to even a novice. I did not say the A.R.M.S rail was better, I said on the 3 uppers I tryed the A.R.M.S. rail aligned perfectly and the LaRue did not. If it is the upper recievers fault, I guess the A.R.M.S rail just might be better for those that don't have a boxful of upper recievers to cull through. I agree the LaRue is much better in many other areas, just not the ones I was having an issue with.

Flame on fellas.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: To my knowledge none have failed. Watcha got? Tell me about it instead of posting silly quotes. Be a man and grow a pair. No one here will bite you. I've got you making an assumption based on an admitted lack of knowledge. You posted to a thread were a LaRue failure was discussed, reread the thread. OK so someone said that a LaRue rail failed. Can you provide pics? I can say the moon is blue, are you going to believe me or go outside and see that it is gray/white? If LaRue does have only one rail that has failed out of the thousands that Mark's company has produced then I find that completely awesome. No one can expect any company to make perfect gear. You guys, it seems have been trying to defame and slander his product. I find that really silly concidering only one rail per Gunzilla has failed. One out of thousands!!! Clippen went so far as to say he would rather use a Arms rail instead of a LaRue. That's really funny since it's a known fact the Sir lower rail is made from plastic and will break when dropped on a hard surface. If you guys don't like LaRue stuff that's OK. Just get it out in the open instead of trying to use a back handed method. Hell I hate the Arms Sir. But I like their sights. Have some balls man, just say what you want to say. Then and only then can we get down to business discussing the good and bad points of LaRue products.

I don't like their sights as well as others. I sold them all and replaced them with TROY's As everything else, it is mostly opinion, but I am sure you would argue that as well.

ETA- I am not sure about the construction or method but there are plenty of epoxy adhesives that are much stronger and heat resistant than many forms of metal. If, in fact Larue does use adhesive in their fabrication, I am sure it has undergone such testing.

I'd like to know how Grant can categorically declare that there has "NEVER" been a LaRue rail to fail???  Do you have a roving band of mythical gnomes and fairies that track every LR rail to make sure it doesn't fail, and report back to you in the rare event that one does?  

Just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  And just because Mark LaRue has never told you about it, doesn't make it true.  He could have not mentioned failings, and he could not know about failings.  It could happen and go unreported.  I'm willing to bet that plenty of people on this board have had some type of product fail at some point in their recent lives and didn't bother to call the manufacturer and bitch.

I'm not trying to bash LR gear.  The peices I've used have all been top of the line, and I was planning on purchasing a 12.0 soon.  I just get really annoyed at the "Mark LR walks on water, Mark LR would NEVER put out a product that one could even imagine failing" banter that some members on this board try to shove down everyone's throats.  

Sure, LR gear is great, but it can be broken, just like everything else...Murphey is a bastard.

Why do you guys have to turn everyone of these discussions in to some sort of brand bashing?

Does anyone know the details of how they are created and can explain it, or not?

Quoted: Does anyone know the details of how they are created and can explain it, or not?

Details, you want details?

This is an interesting discussion as I recall certain dealers on this site in the past stating that the LaRue rails were ONE PIECE?

I'll have to take a 20x loupe to mine after work and see if I can find a glue line/joint of any kind.

Well that didn't take long, and it only took a 6x opit-visor too.

There is indeed a small gap between the rail and the "threaded insert" (for lack of a better term) and there is also what looks like several very small black "beads" surrounding this area as well.

This must be the "Glue" overrun as they are nearly as hard as the aluminum itself.

I thought that they were only slight finish flaws until I took the visor to it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with industrial strength adhesives although it would have been nice to know this instead of being under the impression that it was a ONE PIECE design!

So why the cloak and dagger atmosphere? Surely those in the know (Dealers) must know the skinny on this?

Why not either debunk or acknowledge the fact

Quoted: Well that didn't take long, and it only took a 6x opit-visor too. There is indeed a small gap between the rail and the "threaded insert" (for lack of a better term) and there is also what looks like several very small black "beads" surrounding this area as well. This must be the "Glue" overrun as they are nearly as hard as the aluminum itself. I thought that they were only slight finish flaws until I took the visor to it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with industrial strength adhesives although it would have been nice to know this instead of being under the impression that it was a ONE PIECE design! So why the cloak and dagger atmosphere? Surely those in the know (Dealers) must know the skinny on this? Why not either debunk or acknowledge the fact

yes... I posted this now a few times, but catch a lot of flack as some sort of infidel... One message called me a heretic, but I liked that one

guess the truth can not be argued nor is there shame in telling it, the early LT handguards were billiet machined from a solid block and they got that reputation. There is still some confusion that they are, but as you see they are extrusions glued to a moutning block -- there is nothing wrong with this, as I said, the technique got a bad rep from the PRI handguards that had glue failing and were dropping off faster than a prom dress... but it seems to be working fine for LT.

I do not know why this is such a forbidden topic? I do know that a couple of ads I have seen recently do sell them as billet machined, but LT does not make such a claim... it is just one of those things I guess, someone said they were and no one ever stopped to ask.

Grant,

I would be surprised if you or Wes did make such a claim, you have to deal with a tough crowd (not only here but in the professional community) and I am sure that you and others keep on top of things.

I saw a post on here a while back, I am not sure who it was (not one of the top level dealers on arfcom) that listed a "feature" of the LT as being billet construction...

I also have a magazine at home from some wannabe commando company that clearly lists them as SOLID BILLET -- but, you have to consider the source huh?

Again, nothing wrong with the technique, my father was an enigineer for NASA during the Gemini, Mercury and Saturn projects... he used to use adhesives that were stupid strong, but stupid expensive too -- I have some that I bought for a project and it cost like 125 bucks for a tiny bottle!

I have to take advantage of this... I posted a fact and did not get slammed!

On this note, I am outa here... some know why I have to cut, but it is all good.

10-7

Wow, I may have missed something in this thread, but I do recall the LaRue Rails were made out of a solid billet of aluminum.

I was fortunate enough about a year ago to tour the LaRue factory.  Met the man himself...

I do remember him pointing out a CNC machine carving a rail out of a solid billet of aluminum; I don't remember them 'gluing' something onto the rail to finish it out.  But then again, that was a while back & maybe something's been changed since I was there.

Last trip I made out to Mr. LaRue's factory was earlier this year to purchase an EOTech mount.  I didn't look around, just went there to make a purchase.  The folks at LaRue are a friendly lot, very proud of their product & IMHO, they have a lot to be proud of.  Besides, they're a Texas company and just a small drive from my office.  Ain't it great!!!

Well, you learn something every day!

A well-informed source (who must remain nameless!) clued me in on the extent to which industrial strength adhesives are being used by the aerospace industry...

"If all the glues in use out there were to just dissapear, the sky would be RAINING airplanes and spacecraft".