Ed Verdugo has been making sling for over twenty years, he initially developed the sling end plate for the AR15.

Ed also developed the CQB reticel for IOR Valdada.

The reverse horse shoe has been a great success for IOR and from the different scope available from the IOR line up that are build with Ed's CQB reticle.

But not only did Ed design the reticel but he also has a few other tricks up his sleeves.  when he approached various manufactures to build his scope, he was turned down by all of them.

He finally got feed up with the rejections and decided to build the scope himself.  But the only manufacture that has production capability that fit his small budget was a Chinese optic company.  He took the dive and had then build his third and final prototype. the inital units were build by IOR, and US Optics.

The final prototype was tested by me for its concept of a easily used mid range scope.  power is only 1-4x with illuminations and his improved CQB reticle.

I believe this makes for a great ideal mid range scope.  the glass are very clear, no blur around the outer edge and the reticle is a front focal plane set up which allow for the reticle to be the same size no matter what power setting you are at and a side activated illumination.  only thing about it is the illumination is not powerful enough for day work.  

Some might be apprehensive about a scope made in China, but for the price of 350.00 to the consumers, his scope is well made, robust and very very clear.  I thin it is worth a serious look for your mid range 5.56 needs.

here are some pictures of the new scope are the reticle.

1-4x 24 power. the illumination is on and off at only the 0 mark, it is not like the S&B which shuts off the illumination in between power settings.


Power factor are marked at every half power increment.


The green mark is the hash for the illumination, but production model will have a more professional notch build into it.


This retivle is fast up close but not as fast as a EOTech or Aimpoint. but for mid range/CQB / general purpose, this reticle is very efficient.
once you learn the reticel design, you can quickly place shot on target out to 500 yrds.  look at the two circles on either side with the 5 marked on it. it is just big enough to bracket a head at 500 yrds. if the head fits inside the circle next to the five, you just move the target to the cross in the middle of the two 5 circle and shoot.  the center is a 1MOA dot with the hourse shoot a clear 18MOA.

www.grsc.com
This scope is set to release within the next four months.  Ed has put 500 units into production as we speak.  I wish all the success.

Is it a true 1X?

Looks very nice, the only thing I don't like about the reticle is that the "horse shoe" is too thick for my liking.  

  How does the horse shoe help in aiming?    

Sign me up for one.

This definately belongs in the new product forum.

I'm jonesing for one of these now.

$350 for a Chinese scope!!!

Maybe we can get him to offer the reticle in the fake Mark 4s.

Quoted: $350 for a Chinese scope!!! Maybe we can get him to offer the reticle in the fake Mark 4s.

Yes, Chinese optic manufacture have not had a good name in the market. but within the industry, China optics has been making high end lens for variuos optic manufactures.  you would be surprised to find out that Company L uses Chinese made optics in some of their scopes.


Ed had no other choice but to turn to the Chinese manufacture to produce his optic.  He is a fireman by trade, which tells you that he does not have a lot of money to back his dream. and he have tried with various manufactures to make his scope but they all turned him down.  so he had to fund the entire dream from his own pocket.  The Chinese company went from design to working prototype in 6 months and Ed has now put the min. amount required to get the scope into production.. 500 units.

Company L doesn't own their own trade name in China. The Chinese government gave it to a domestic company. That's why you see all the knock offs.

I believe the only Chinese lenses that company L uses are in their lowest end Rifleman scopes and rangefinders. All the other glass that company L uses comes from Japan.

Will probably be about 6 months before we see junk Chinese scopes flooding Ebay with the horseshoe CQB reticle in all of them.

tag for interest.

Interested,  if its a true 1x also.

Quoted: Company L doesn't own their own trade name in China. The Chinese government gave it to a domestic company. That's why you see all the knock offs. I believe the only Chinese lenses that company L uses are in their lowest end Rifleman scopes and rangefinders. All the other glass that company L uses comes from Japan. Will probably be about 6 months before we see junk Chinese scopes flooding Ebay with the horseshoe CQB reticle in all of them.

You would be suprised......


As far as junk, Not allChinese made items are junk.. I am made in Taiwan but I come with a life time warranty.. LOL

Yes, Every third world countries come through the knock off phase.  First was Japan, then Taiwan, China, and you will soon see Vietnam as then next country to take that path.

I wouldn't call Japan or Taiwan third world country...they have great engineers....most of the electronics stuff come from there: Plasmas, LCDs, computer parts...

Also I have been impressed with the cordura gear coming from Taiwan..

just my 0.02 in this global economy

Quoted: I believe the only Chinese lenses that company L uses are in their lowest end Rifleman scopes and rangefinders. All the other glass that company L uses comes from Japan.

I thought they used Chinese on everything but the Mark 4 line-up.  Not trying to stir the shit, but I just read that over at snipershide.com.  Interestly, the thread has now disappeared.

tag

Is the optic capable of daytime illumination?

Quoted: the reticle is a front focal plane set up which allow for the reticle to be the same size no matter what power setting you are at.

 

That sounds like a second focal plane reticle, a first focal plane reticle would get smaller on the low end and bigger on the high end to maintain reticle substention for ranging, holdoff, etc.   Are you sure about that set up?

It does look good though, there definitely needs to be more options like this on the market with reticles that will not only work up close but at distance as well.

Quoted: I wouldn't call Japan or Taiwan third world country...they have great engineers....most of the electronics stuff come from there: Plasmas, LCDs, computer parts... Also I have been impressed with the cordura gear coming from Taiwan.. just my 0.02 in this global economy

But at one time, Japan and Taiwan both possessed the same reputation as China.  Japan in thge early 50-60's and Taiwan 70s

Quoted: But at one time, Japan and Taiwan both possessed the same reputation as China.  Japan in thge early 50-60's and Taiwan 70s

But they weren't communists. You are going to have a hard time trying to defend China.

I got my cash ready - it seems to fill a somewhat sparse portion of the market, at a price that's a lot more bearable than many offerings. My only concern is the quality of the production pieces, compared to the prototypes.

Is there a shot of the setup from farther away? I have a little difficulty picturing how large the scope is when it's zoomed in.

Quoted: Quoted: But at one time, Japan and Taiwan both possessed the same reputation as China.  Japan in thge early 50-60's and Taiwan 70s But they weren't communists. You are going to have a hard time trying to defend China.

I am from Taiwan twenty years ago, so i am no big fan of China as far as politics.

BUT.... China is reaaly more of a soicalist country. yes, they still consider themselves communists, but tradition run deep and it is tough to change everything at once.  China runs free enterprise and many citizens are living a lot better lifes then what was china ten or twenty years ago.  again not to defend China just making a point.. the important things is not to take this politics into play with Ed's effort in making a scope of his design. He tried with various companies in the States but got no repliies, so to carry his dream to reality, he used a Chinese manufacture.  you can't falut the guy for trying. you can run this made in China thing all day long, it the end, it is an American guy's dream carried out  by an overseas manufacture.

Any chance he'll be at the NRA convention?  I'd like to see one in person.

Sounds cool.

I'll withhold judgment based on its Chinese manufacture until there are some production models on the street.

Chen,
Thanks for the intro on this website, I'm really busy right now as usual, I'll try to answer a couple questions that have been posted. The scope is 1X, the whole reticle is illuminated not just the horseshoe. On the production model the M4-62 will not be illuminated. The reticle is bright enough to see during the daylight in most situations. If you go to the top of this categorie OPTICS, MOUNTS and SIGHTS, click on the thumbtacked thread picture requests/reticle pictures, then click on page 10 you will find pictures of the reticle on a real person from 10ft to 500yds. This will give you an idea of how the horseshoe is used in CQB situations, and the aiming dots for precision at longer range. You will also see how to determine distance using the ranging circles on a man's head at 300, 400 and 500yds. Go to go for now, try to give you some more information later. By the way the reticle is for point blank range to 500yds not mid to long range. The scope is 11 inches long,30mm tube with a ffp reticle.


                                  Ed

any information on the dimensions of the scope?

length, weight, eye relief, 30mm or 1" tube?

I like the concept and the price and I'm in the market for a scope like this.  

Thanks for any information...

Gale's wisdom.

yarchive.net/gun/scope/makers.html

btt for answers

Quoted: any information on the dimensions of the scope? length, weight, eye relief, 30mm or 1" tube? I like the concept and the price and I'm in the market for a scope like this.   Thanks for any information...

30mm tube, the eye relief is standard with the scope set on 1x, and not bad with it on 4x. seem to be better then my 4x ACOG TA31a.  Sorry i don't have the full tech detail.

Here is a pic with the scope mounted to a SPR.  The size is in line with the S&B short dot, being it is a true 1X, the tube had to be made longer then a 1.5x varible type scope.

Quoted: Quoted: any information on the dimensions of the scope? length, weight, eye relief, 30mm or 1" tube? I like the concept and the price and I'm in the market for a scope like this.   Thanks for any information... 30mm tube, the eye relief is standard with the scope set on 1x, and not bad with it on 4x. seem to be better then my 4x ACOG TA31a.  Sorry i don't have the full tech detail. Here is a pic with the scope mounted to a SPR.  The size is in line with the S&B short dot, being it is a true 1X, the tube had to be made longer then a 1.5x varible type scope. photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/Misc-010.jpg

thank you for the reply.

I shoot nose to charging handle.  At 4x is this doable with this scope?

thanks again.

I'm assuming these are now available?

Quoted: I shoot nose to charging handle.  At 4x is this doable with this scope? I'm assuming these are now available?

rob,

The scope will be available in June.  500 units in coming from contract manufacture.

As far as the scope and eye relief. you might notice the way the stock was set on the SPR.  I too shoot nose to charging handle.  it is perfect.

Quoted: Quoted: I shoot nose to charging handle.  At 4x is this doable with this scope? I'm assuming these are now available? rob, The scope will be available in June.  500 units in coming from contract manufacture. As far as the scope and eye relief. you might notice the way the stock was set on the SPR.  I too shoot nose to charging handle.  it is perfect.

sounds good.

thanks for the quick reponse.

Here are some pictures of the reticle at distances ranging from 10ft to 500yds. Enjoy. I'll reply to any other questions as soon as I can.


http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-outside-head-.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-500yds--4X-R.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-500yds--4X-H.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-400yds--1X-R.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-300yds--4X-H.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-200yds--4X.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-100yds--4X-H.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-100yds--4X-C.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-100yds--1X.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-75yds--4X.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-75yds--1X.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-50yds--1X.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-25yds--1X.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-1X-Illumintat.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-25yds-4X.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-1X-Illuminate.jpg

Quoted: Here are some pictures of the reticle at distances ranging from 10ft to 500yds. Enjoy. I'll reply to any other questions as soon as I can.

Thank you for the photos.

Is the reticle design already fixed, or could it be altered?  (wondering if feedback on the reticle design would be helpful or moot)

The horseshoe to me looks far too small for example.

And, it appears the illumination and non-illuminated reticle are two different elements, is that correct?

Never a dull day in the employ of GRSC.

I like it, nice optic option for head shots and priced right

Will this scope be shock & water proof?

I'll bump this back to the top with another question...

What will the expected battery life be for the lit reticle?

yes but has it been tested.............. abused to a moderate amount of conditons and other.

not on the bench?
ifits using the cr2302 etcc type batts i would like limited life maybe 100 hours or so

Is it substantially smaller than the Meopta?


I have one of the group buy Meoptas. It's a great scope but I wish it was shorter and had some kind of ranging capability.


This scope seems like it addresses both of those issues, even if it is Chicom. Hopefully some 3-gun types will wring it out and report back.

WHY American optics companies dont have interest in what many see as an ideal M16/AR15 scope concept is beyond me...

height=8

Quoted: WHY American optics companies dont have interest in what many see as an ideal M16/AR15 scope concept is beyond me...

Some part of making a 1x variable scares everybody away from this type of scope.

Quoted: WHY American optics companies dont have interest in what many see as an ideal M16/AR15 scope concept is beyond me...

my SEWAG:  too narrow a market segment without a military contract.

I've wondered the same thing...

Quoted: WHY American optics companies dont have interest in what many see as an ideal M16/AR15 scope concept is beyond me...

I also think this is a nice concept scope.  that is why I think a little promotion on AR15 won't hurt.  anything to help out a good guy on a small budget with a big dream of making something that works.

as far as some of the questions, i think it is best leave to Ed to answer.

I believe Ed has put the scope through some rough testing including sending the scope to the sandbox for some battle experience and feed back.  

battery life is about 80-100 hours.

Quoted: WHY American optics companies dont have interest in what many see as an ideal M16/AR15 scope concept is beyond me...

My understanding was that Leupy refused to work on a scope like this, that's where the short dot came from.

With some changes the CQ/T could be a great scope, the 1x performance is outstanding - but they don't seem interested in making even a more usable reticle much less slimming down the weight.

This is the design realm of current and future needs for combat-type optics (civi/LE, as well as mil) IMO.  Most optics companies seem to not realize the fact that optics are now the STANDARD sighting system for virtually all US military combat longarms.  Time to get with the program.

I'm not active mil or LEO, after some thought my opinion on the ranging system is A++.


Range to target can be roughly estimated by placing the head of the target in one of the circles.

Since the adult human head differs relatively little in size (as opposed to ranging off of a car tire) this technique should prove very effective...correct?

the more I think about it, the more intrigued I am by the concept.

Quoted: Since the adult human head differs relatively little in size (as opposed to ranging off of a car tire) this technique should prove very effective...correct?

The small size of the head also makes it less precise, negating any gain from size similarity.

Quoted: WHY American optics companies dont have interest in what many see as an ideal M16/AR15 scope concept is beyond me...

It's a Zumbo thing.......

I will try one once it is out.  

I am going ot tag this and beg the wife to let me buy one.  

height=8

Quoted: I will try one once it is out.

When does it come out??