Info on "FN" and LMT parts

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Info on "FN" and LMT parts

Posted: 9/1/2004 11:51:55 PM EDT

I remember posting this to the AR15-L but I don't remember posting it here. This is the text of emails between myself and Beryl Meyers of FN.

From: Rodger Young [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 8:40 AM
To: Beryl Myers
Subject: Parts Q

Beryl,

First, let me congratulate FN on being progressive enough to allow their staff to have open email addresses. It truly simplifies things.

We've never spoken before but I'm a regular on many of the online AR15 forums and a fan of FN’s military products.

I worked at Olympic Arms for several years as an assembler, am a US Army trained small arms repairer, and a Colt certified AR Armorer but please don't hold that against me. :D

Cutting to the chase, I see many shops listing "FN" AR15/M16 parts for sale but since I've been told by several reputable sources that FN doesn't sell AR15/M16 parts to the civilian sector I'm curious as to the origin of these parts. Are these deals I see listed simply scams or is there something I'm missing?

There is an ongoing thread regarding this subject on one of the larger forums and I wish to get 'the word' hoping to bring the thread to a close.

Looking forward to your answer,

=====
Tweak, WA

philogynist
WA State Shooters E-List
[email protected]

"You may find me one day dead in a ditch somewhere. But by God, you'll find me in a pile of brass." Trooper. M. Padgett

Subject: RE: Parts Q
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:22:22 -0500
From: "Beryl Myers" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]

Rodger,
Thank you for your email. We have become aware of this issue as well, and you are correct, FNMI ONLY produces and sells M16 Type Weapons for and to the US Government. We are prohibited from any other sales based on a Non Disclosure and Non Use Agreement, with the US Government.

The only explanation that we have been able to gather, is that these shop have gone to some of our suppliers who, either from a drawing supplied by that shop or from one of their own, is producing the part and selling it commercially, and that supplier says, that the parts are made to the same quality as FN parts.

I hope that this helps. If not, let me know.

Beryl

Addendum:
AFAIK, FN’s subcontractors are bound by the same Non Disclosure and Non Use agreements as FNMI. That is a government requirement to obtain the Technical Data Package (TDP) containing the prints and procedures for making each item. That means that these subcontractors would be in violation of the TDP agreement if they use the information for something other than what was outlined in their contract with FN.

In short, there are no FNMI parts.

There may be parts that were "made for FN" but FN never accepted them. The reasons the parts were not accepted by FN could vary. Maybe they're surplus, maybe they're crap rejected by FN.

It's disingenuous advertizing at best.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

The following is the text of emails exchanged between an ARF member and Chip Witt of LMT. I've deleted the name and address of the member. You will note that them member only asked about the standard carriers. Per a post on TF regarding a conversation with Karl Lewis, there is still some dispute about this.

-----Original Message-----
From: Witt, Chip [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 1:30 PM
To: Justin XXXXX
Subject: RE: RGA # 156

JUSTIN,
WE DO NOT MAG PARTICLE. IF WE DID OUR PRICES WOULD BE MUCH HIGHER. WE HAVE
NOT HAD A DOCUMENTED FAILURE THAT I KNOW OF.
CHIP

-----Original Message-----
From: Justin XXXXXXXXXX Sent: Wednesday, October
06, 2004 12:42 PM
To: Witt, Chip
Subject: RE: RGA # XXXXXXX

Chip, been meaning to ask you:

For your standard AR15 bolts: do you do magnetic particle inspection on them?

Are they marked MP, like Colt or FN bolts, and your barrels?

I'd like to purchase a high quality bolt without paying outrageous Colt prices.
A lot of others would like to as well.

Have a good one!

J

To add to this Carl Lewis (OW of LMT) is saying that each and every bolt and barrel made by LMT is MP'd.

Posted: 9/4/2004 11:28:23 AM EDT

[#1]

I would assume that if one were in possession of actual FN parts they would be considered "lifted" from some govt. organization.

Posted: 9/4/2004 11:34:52 AM EDT

[#2]

We prefer the term "borrowed".

Posted: 9/5/2004 11:45:09 PM EDT

[#3]

On a related note, here is an example of the verbiage FN uses on prints they send to sub contractors.

BTW, the warning is stamped on a Colt print.

Posted: 10/26/2004 6:26:40 PM EDT

[#4]

Doesn't Fulton Armory sell FN barrels????

Posted: 10/26/2004 6:30:10 PM EDT

[#5]

Its quite possible they are producing these in breach of contract.

Posted: 10/26/2004 7:07:39 PM EDT

[#6]

who is? FN or their subs?

Posted: 10/26/2004 7:10:32 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
who is? FN or their subs?

The subs. It would be tempting, and there may even be loopholes in the contract.

Posted: 11/4/2004 4:33:20 AM EDT

[#8]

Tweak,

could you ID a FN upper from a picture without closeup of stampings/ marks etc?

TIA

Posted: 11/4/2004 4:58:00 AM EDT

[#9]

If it's "FN" it will have an "F" on it.

Posted: 12/24/2004 7:32:03 AM EDT

[#10]

the barrels may be legit; years ago DPMS bought up a bunch of overruns, which they had to finish, to include chrome lining & parkerizing; some were NOT chrome lined; they re-sold these barrels to many vendors

Source DPMS Via DrJekyl

Posted: 12/25/2004 12:15:03 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
which they had to finish,

ipso facto the barrels were not FN barrels past that point.

Posted: 1/6/2005 12:33:54 AM EDT

[#12]

Cool read, I learned something. The link talking of BM bolts breaking reminded me of my bolt breaking a few months ago. The surface area around the break was as I would expect, very ruff. However, in the center of the broken area it was very smoth, almost like it was ever completely connected or fused together in the first place?

Posted: 1/6/2005 1:24:19 AM EDT

[#13]

the roughness is the heat treated area, the smooth metal is the un heat treated part. the carburized sheath will have a crystalline appearance.

Posted: 1/7/2005 2:51:52 PM EDT

[#14]

While I doubt they'd show up in large quantities, it's possible to get a "brand new, FN manufactured" barrel assembly legally, particularly a 20" assembly.

With all the services gearing up for many/most troops having M4s, it's very possible for them to be surplusing unneeded 20" barrels. Savy DRMO buyers could easily see this "scrap" as something that's better than just scrap, snach them up and sell them at a premium.

Like I said, it's possible, so I would certainly NOT accuse anyone of having stolen property just because they had a NIW FN 20" barrel assembly for sale.

Posted: 1/7/2005 11:35:49 PM EDT

[#15]

they are not FN barrels. FN does not sell parts to civilians. If someone is selling an FN part they are lying. it may well be a part intended to be sold to FN for use on M16s but that does not make it an FN part.

Posted: 5/28/2005 11:50:46 AM EDT

[#16]

I know nobody has posted on here in awhile, but this got me wondering.

The military is getting more and more flattops, and this means that the 20" A2's are getting thrown out. Is it possible that these surplus uppers and barrels are making it into commercial channels (I didn't think gun parts could be surplused anymore) and are actually true FN barrels and possibly uppers?

Thanks,

WIZZO

Posted: 5/28/2005 2:18:50 PM EDT

[#17]

Sam isn't allowed to sell surplus weapons parts anymore.

Posted: 6/2/2005 11:00:45 AM EDT

[#18]

Here's a pic that a...............uhm.....................err......................a "friend" has.

WpnsMan, an active duty armorer, if I have him figured out correctly, verified that this is an actual FN upper receiver.

Adding: I had a barrel marked "FNMI MP 5.56 NATO 1/7" and it was a government profile, chrome lined barrel, consistent with what you would find on an M16. I also have an "MPF" marked bolt, which was new when I got it. I also have some "N" marked extractors that WpnsMan said would be consistent with parts the FN would use. And lastly, I have an M16 hammer which has markings consistent with the FN markings. I bought this huge parts lot off of some guy on ebay, when these parts were legal to sell, and many of these parts were in that lot.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Info on "FN" and LMT parts

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