User Panel
Posted: 3/19/2024 3:29:33 PM EDT
I get the basis for this, but seriously, why does it really matter? The numbers are only on imported rifles.
And those rifles may very well have had parts changed out before it was ultimately demilitarized and sold to the US. So the parts numbers may match, but the parts wouldn't necessarily be the original parts to the gun. I guess I am just wondering what am I missing? Is it just something sellers say to justify a higher price, or is there another legitimate reason that the numbers should match? And for the record I am guilty of wanting my numbers to match, just wondering where that notion came from... |
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I wanted matching numbers when I was building AKs in order to make the headspace correct. Building now without the original barrel would be much tougher. I've had to headspace an AK but it was such a pita in comparison to dealing with an oem barrel.
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Brownells is my go-to source for all firearm and firearm-accessory needs. They've got a great selection of in-stock items, slow ass UPS Mail Innovation shipping and the best darn customer service in the industry.
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Originally Posted By BoilingToad: I wanted matching numbers when I was building AKs in order to make the headspace correct. Building now without the original barrel would be much tougher. I've had to headspace an AK but it was such a pita in comparison to dealing with an oem barrel. View Quote correct me if I am wrong, but don't many parts kit today have a cut up barrel or no barrel at all? And what about if a bolt happens to fail, can you not simply replace the bolt? Or is a new barrel required. Note: I have never installed a barrel on an AK or done anything more than install furniture and trigger group on AKs |
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Originally Posted By BoilingToad: I wanted matching numbers when I was building AKs in order to make the headspace correct. Building now without the original barrel would be much tougher. I've had to headspace an AK but it was such a pita in comparison to dealing with an oem barrel. View Quote Setting headspace is really easy. Hardest part is having patience to check it as you go. Do you somehow just rivet in the trunnion without removing the barrel? I like numbers matching just because it's cool to see parts that never got separated. |
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Originally Posted By DoorKicker: correct me if I am wrong, but don't many parts kit today have a cut up barrel or no barrel at all? And what about if a bolt happens to fail, can you not simply replace the bolt? Or is a new barrel required. Note: I have never installed a barrel on an AK or done anything more than install furniture and trigger group on AKs View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By DoorKicker: Originally Posted By BoilingToad: I wanted matching numbers when I was building AKs in order to make the headspace correct. Building now without the original barrel would be much tougher. I've had to headspace an AK but it was such a pita in comparison to dealing with an oem barrel. correct me if I am wrong, but don't many parts kit today have a cut up barrel or no barrel at all? And what about if a bolt happens to fail, can you not simply replace the bolt? Or is a new barrel required. Note: I have never installed a barrel on an AK or done anything more than install furniture and trigger group on AKs Not any kind of AK expert plus I've been corrected here before but doesn't the barrel need to be adjusted to fit the bolt for correct headspace? I could be miss remembering but in videos I seen guys repin barrels that where off headspace. |
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Originally Posted By DoorKicker: I get the basis for this, but seriously, why does it really matter? View Quote American guns don't have serial numbered parts. All the surplus Garands, M1 Carbines, 1911s, ect, are almost always mixmasters. They work fine. Nobody cares because that's just the way it is. Even a lot of rearsenaled foreign service guns are force matched. The people who's lives depended on them in combat didn't care. Only collectors care. We worry about the stupidest shit sometimes. If they are built right, mutt guns will work just fine. |
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Originally Posted By JamesJones: Not any kind of AK expert plus I've been corrected here before but doesn't the barrel need to be adjusted to fit the bolt for correct headspace? I could be miss remembering but in videos I seen guys repin barrels that where off headspace. View Quote Moving the barrel in relation to the bolt in it's locked position is how you headspace an AK. That goes for stamped and milled AKs. To one of the folks above, the current AFT rules require no barrel or a flame cut destroyed barrel. |
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Originally Posted By DoorKicker: correct me if I am wrong, but don't many parts kit today have a cut up barrel or no barrel at all? And what about if a bolt happens to fail, can you not simply replace the bolt? Or is a new barrel required. Note: I have never installed a barrel on an AK or done anything more than install furniture and trigger group on AKs View Quote No, the newer imported kits are all like that. But there are still plenty of older intact barrel kits floating around. Headspacing, ease of building it, and usually a better quality barrel are the reasons it is desirable. Collectibility/value is also improved if all serials match as well. Barrel work on an AK is a pain in the neck compared to an AR. Go populate a barrel, deal with oversizing a barrel pin due to headspace issues, and let us know what you think then. If you actually build an AK, some of this stuff (common opinions/etc) would be more clear. (I vowed to never again do barrel work on AK’s after one particularly difficult build with headspace issues.) |
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a loaded gun won’t set you free, so they say…
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Originally Posted By JamesJones: Not any kind of AK expert plus I've been corrected here before but doesn't the barrel need to be adjusted to fit the bolt for correct headspace? I could be miss remembering but in videos I seen guys repin barrels that where off headspace. View Quote If you used an original kit with intact barrel, matching numbers, the chances are extremely good that you will not need to worry about headpacing. You will want to check it to verify is all that is needed. You can check the HS on a kit before ever starting the build- just need the barrel/trunnion plus the bolt. Also-Soviet headspace specs will be a little tighter than SAAMI gages. If it shows as maybe being a bit short on HS (hard to close on a GO gage), but a live round will close, it is good to go. Many AK’s with matching numbers won’t fully close on a GO gage, but they are in spec. (Easy to tell when all the numbers match, and it was a demilled brand new rifle…). Basically- I trust Arsenal 10 in Bulgaria (for example) to have done the HS correct, and the US made gage is the part that is a bit out of spec in those situations. |
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a loaded gun won’t set you free, so they say…
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Originally Posted By tac556: If you used an original kit with intact barrel, matching numbers, the chances are extremely good that you will not need to worry about headpacing. You will want to check it to verify is all that is needed. You can check the HS on a kit before ever starting the build- just need the barrel/trunnion plus the bolt. Also-Soviet headspace specs will be a little tighter than SAAMI gages. If it shows as maybe being a bit short on HS (hard to close on a GO gage), but a live round will close, it is good to go. Many AK’s with matching numbers won’t fully close on a GO gage, but they are in spec. (Easy to tell when all the numbers match, and it was a demilled brand new rifle…). Basically- I trust Arsenal 10 in Bulgaria (for example) to have done the HS correct, and the US made gage is the part that is a bit out of spec in those situations. View Quote This is true. I’ve run into a lot of matching numbers original barrel Romanian, Polish and Hungarian kits and it either won’t close on a go gauge or it’s really tight but closes. But they all close easily on a live round. I use a set of East German Go/No Go gauges. The AK is a very forgiving design. |
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Matching number look nice.
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Originally Posted By Shadyman: This is true. I’ve run into a lot of matching numbers original barrel Romanian, Polish and Hungarian kits and it either won’t close on a go gauge or it’s really tight but closes. But they all close easily on a live round. I use a set of East German Go/No Go gauges. The AK is a very forgiving design. View Quote The AK is forgiving but nowhere near as forgiving as some other Soviet designs. I know of DP guns that require 0.050" of headspace to function. Mine functions just fine when barely locking closed on a GO gauge. Those are much less fun than an AK to set headspace. |
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Back when AK kits were cheap, matching numbers gave you a better chance of all the parts fitting together as they came off the same rifle. Akm rifles have a wide variety of tolerances, so unmatched parts may or may not readily fit. The matching numbers give you a better chance of the parts fitting together. But I have had factory assembled rifles that needed work (namely Russian Saiga-12) and unmatching parts that drop right in. So there isn't a certainty, but maybe the perceived higher chance of fit parts.
I've had arsenal force fit rifles that ran fine (Russian & Chinese SKSs) and everything fit together well. They had the old numbers stamped out and the new numbers marked (many times crudely). I've had some high end gunsmith built rifles where they removed all the mismatched numbers (welded over and ground down) and put together a really nice finished product. I've also had Century mix matched rifles with surplus parts and a new US barrel that ran great. There is also preference. If I could get a matching or non-matching rifle for the same price, I would take the matching numbers. The question then becomes, how much more would you pay for a matching vs. non-matching rifle/kit. It isn't a big for a shooter than a collector. I move back and forth, but will take a deal for non-matching. |
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Some collectors also want to ensure that all the major parts on their AK are period correct. There's a stupifying array of variations in a lot of AKM parts and some of those changes are very subtle. Though parts can obviously be matched to a gun afterwards, a numbers matching kit provides at least some level of assurances that the serialized parts are indeed proper.
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Some collectors also want to ensure that all the major parts on their AK are period correct. There's a stupifying array of variations in a lot of AKM parts and some of those changes are very subtle. Though parts can obviously be matched to a gun afterwards, a numbers matching kit provides at least some level of assurances that the serialized parts are indeed proper.
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