It was built by a well know and respected person on these boards.  I was using Wolf ammo.   I was on my third magazine since I bought the rifle, I pulled back and released the bolt carrier .  When I pulled the trigger all I felt was a massive concussion,  thank God I was wearing glasses.  When I looked down the receiver cover was gone, the bolt and carrier were jammed about 1/2 way back.  The guy next to me checked to see if I was alright and went back to get my receiver cover, 20 feet behind me.  When I looked at the breech I saw that it was a total case head separation that caused the problem. The bore was clear but the front of the case is still stuck in the chamber, the case separated just forward of the head and it was nowhere to be found.  The trunion is bulged on the right side as is the receiver and rails. The gun is basically DOA. My question to the board.    Was it the ammo or was the rifles headspace way out or could there be another problem?   I am not injured I just want to get my rifle back and running. What is the best way to resolve this issue?  My fear is that I may get stuck in a fight between the builder and Wolf who was to blame.  Any suggestions would be helpful.  Thanks

Ammo was Wolf 60 gr hp  Lot #  N038-03

The builder e-mailed me to send him the rifle asap.  So I took some pics and it will be off tommorrow.  I anyone wants the pics I can e-mail them to you. I examined the damage better today.  The trunion is slightly bulged out to the right and so is the receiver and the rails 1/2 way back are bent upward.   The top of the right locking lug in the trunion is broken-shaved off at a 45 degree angle.

We need PICS !  ,
Details on the Build and  Wolf ammo ,
And you have to Rant more  

And , even as I post this,  we are lining up ArfCommers
to post Insults about the Guns builder and Wolf Ammo  

Interesting

Glad everyone is ok.

tag

Uhhh, Hootbro...

Case separation = Too much headspace.

Without pictures I can only speculate, but I have seen this happen when there was too LITTLE powder in the round.  When it is not the correct amount it does not burn but explodes.  I have heard it called 'sympathetic detonation'.  So far I have seen this with three guns, and all of them were totally destroyed.  The only up side is the ammo manufacturer had to pay to replace the guns without a law suit.

Quoted:
When it is not the correct amount it does not burn but explodes.  I have heard it called 'sympathetic detonation'./

That is not a case of sympathetic detonation.

Sympathetic detonation example is best described with primers.

If you had a bunch of primers in close proximity to wach other, such as a
primer feed tube or say in a jar.  If you set off ONE primer, it will cause
the other primers to detonate due to the origonal primer going off.
That is why primer packs are designed like they are to isolate the primers
from one another in order to minimize the chances of a sympathetic detonation
if they are subject to shock or impact. If one goes, they all wont go.

Probably headspace or a possible firing out of battery i'd bet.
Who built it??

KyARGuy

Quoted: We need PICS !  , <snip> And , even as I post this,  we are lining up ArfCommers to post Insults about the Guns builder and Wolf Ammo

Starts IMing the WAADL members on this board


Wolf Ammo Anti Defamation League

Glad to hear you are okay.
Please let us know how it turns out. I am about to build my Bulgie Krink kit and am tempted to have it built by a manufacturer for coverage in a situation such as this.
Good luck with your rifle.

You need to contact both the builder and Wolf ammo. Save the packaging and remaining ammo from the same bunch. Take a shitload of pics of all of the seperate compnents of the rifle exactly as they ended up after the boom. Take pics of the ammo including the packaging and seperated case. I'd also take pics & keep some of the other empty cases from that mag. Keep all of these pics as documentation.

 Glad to hear you are ok.

"the case separated just forward of the head and it was nowhere to be found"

I know this will sound VERY dumb... but, when you say "just forward of the head" - are you are refering to the cartridge BASE (large round ring at rear), or cartridge NECK?

Why I ask... a lot of us could jump to conclusions if we got this part wrong... generally, excessive headspace will cause a separation very near to the REAR of the cartridge.  So - to avoid a quick (and possibly wrong) diagnosis?  I just want to be dead sure of where the separation occured....

Can you be sure that the bolt and carrier were fully in battery ?  Fully locked up ?  Unfortunately, we cannot install what most call the auto-sear...it would prevent an out of battery firing.....

Clarification.  The head of the cartridge is gone( the back 1/4inch of the cartridge with the headstamp).  The right locking lug on the trunion has the top front of it broken-shaved off at a 45 degree angle.

CALL the DIST of WOLF.

My buddies UZI blew up with Wolf 45 ammo,  They had him send it to a smith who called it a total loss and Wolf purchased him a new one.  

this may be a good time to bring up the idea that I have headspace guages for most of my calibers. I have checked every build, doesnt matter if it is mine, or a top quality place like arsenal. It eliminates the question if something happens, also gives peace of mind that it is less likely to do this. I am thinking it was headspace but who knows Do you have any other cases that ran thru it. You would most likely see an indication of headspace problems in the other cases before it blew.

Quoted: Wolf ammo did have some lot numbers that were recalled.  Do you have the box the ammo came in? Who was the builder?  Did you contact them?   If it can determined whether the ammo was the problem or whether the builder did not check the rifle correctly before/after building you may get your rifle fixed if possible or replaced. Recently someone returned their rifle to a builder after a kaboom and had it replaced, the builder was in contact with Wolf ammo and supposedly they were taking care of the cost with the builder.  I believe it was Armory USA who had built the rifle, but I may be wrong. My agency used to save money having us shoot qualifications with reloads, until a lite load plugged a barrel on an M-16 and the next load blew the rifle apart.  They still have the barrel mounted on a plaque in the armory to show what can happen.

You're right.  It was me.  My SSR85C-2 blew up (it actually took the blow pretty well) while firing Wolf ammo.  I never recovered the empty, as my rifle continued to extract and load a fresh round.  

Here is my previous thread on this topic.

By the way, mine was in 7.62X39.

Is Wolf ammo even worth using anymore?
I mean its almost as much shipped as Remington

Plus it LETHALLY MALFUNCTIONS!

Just buy Radway Green, Ive heard some good stuff about that.
Never heard oof it blowing up.

I doubt Remington or Radway Green have ever made even one single round of 5.45x39mm. When it comes to 5.45, your only options are Russian imports. It would be nice if someone made bullets and brass for 5.45 though.

Who was the builder?

Quoted: Is Wolf ammo even worth using anymore? I mean its almost as much shipped as Remington Plus it LETHALLY MALFUNCTIONS! Just buy Radway Green, Ive heard some good stuff about that. Never heard oof it blowing up.

The only lethal (mal)function I know of with Wolf ammunition was not to the shooter, but the "shootee".
And what is this about Radway Green?  Do you think we are talking about 5.56 here?

height=8

Quoted: height=8 Quoted: Is Wolf ammo even worth using anymore? I mean its almost as much shipped as Remington Plus it LETHALLY MALFUNCTIONS! Just buy Radway Green, Ive heard some good stuff about that. Never heard oof it blowing up. The only lethal (mal)function I know of with Wolf ammunition was not to the shooter, but the "shootee". And what is this about Radway Green?  Do you think we are talking about 5.56 here?

I know the rifle was 5.45, but what I meant by that post was since Wolf has increased in price and there are other options, to maybe use something else. I hear more about problems with Wolf than any other ammunition

And that post about the Radway Green was just an example of Wolf costing just as much as other bulk options for the .223 also.

I think TUBBY wants to talk with the builder and see what his options are first

Don't BURN the builder if he is willing to help

Let me agree SOUNDLY with prophet455 - even with "new" guns... have the gauges, check headspace.

That being said...

"Clarification. The head of the cartridge is gone( the back 1/4inch of the cartridge with the headstamp). The right locking lug on the trunion has the top front of it broken-shaved off at a 45 degree angle."

Yes, this sounds like a classic excesive headspace issue.  Now that we are dead certain of where the failure was.

Let me add to what prophet455 said.... even with a NEW gun... collect the first 4-10 shells after your first firing session.  Examine the NECKS for splits, and the REAR for any buldges.  Gauges are great - but the ultimate test is reading the shells.

Now - what about this case?  Oh.... what I'm going to say is going to get me in trouble...

Do NOT send the firearm directly back to the builder.  Have a good gunsmith that YOU hire examine it and take photos FIRST.  The trunion is damaged - it's going to be damn near impossible to independently determine the cause of failure now.... but I think you need independant analysis.

After this - send your rifle back.  Provide the builder with a copy of the analysis.  Alow them to respond in a timely fashion.

Last - who was the builder?  You may believe you are being honorable in not revealing this - in fact, you may be putting others at risk.  No "spin" is required - a simple statement of fact is sufficient.

Quoted: Quoted: Is Wolf ammo even worth using anymore? I mean its almost as much shipped as Remington Plus it LETHALLY MALFUNCTIONS! And that post about the Radway Green was just an example of Wolf costing just as much as other bulk options for the .223 also.

my 5.45 rifles wont feed 5.56 very well.

geez, there is a LOT of this going on lately. what's the deal?

my new 11.5" barrel SBR AR KB'd on me last weekend. i think that one is going to be a total loss too.

are ammo manufacturers slacking off in their QC or something...?

Quoted: geez, there is a LOT of this going on lately. what's the deal? my new 11.5" barrel SBR AR KB'd on me last weekend. i think that one is going to be a total loss too. are ammo manufacturers slacking off in their QC or something...?

More often than not its a headspace issue with the builder.