Here is a guide to properly SBR your lower.  I put this together due to the rash of “mishaps” that seem to plague people who are SBRing their lower.

1.  Live in a Free State

2.  Realize that you will be married to this lower probably for the rest of your life and you will get pennies on the dollar if you try to sell it after the SBR process.

3.  Buy a quality lower preferably from a company that will service it after it has been SBRed.  Olympic Arms doesn't count and neither does any cast 1980s crap.

4.  Check all the pin holes to see if they are in spec.  Trigger/hammer holes are .154” and takedown holes are .248”.  The tolerances are +/- 0.001”.  Anything more than that is out of spec.  I don’t care what any blueprints say.  You can take 100 lowers and measure them yourself.  You will come up with these numbers.

5.  Measure the magazine well.  A good magazine well will measure .900” at the front and back and .970” at the slot.  If you are less than this, you may have magazine drop free problems.  

6.  Assemble the lower with a quality LPK such as Colt or LMT.  Use a quality stock with proper buffer.

7.  Find an good carbine upper of known functioning.

8.  Place carbine upper and lower together and fire a minimum of 1,000 rounds through this combo to make sure you lower is good.  Preferably use a variety of magazines.

9.  Disassemble lower.

10.  Find a good engraver.  Orion Arms is good.  Your local trophy shop/jewelry store is probably not so don’t waste your time, neither is your Dremel tool.

11.  Send lower off for engraving.  You do this before you send in any paperwork to the ATF in case something happens to your lower during shipping to the engraver or damage at the engraver.  You don’t want to explain to the ATF that your NFA firearm is lost in the mail.  Anybody that does this backwards is a complete idiot.

12.  Get lower back and make sure everything is ok.

13.  Send in NFA paperwork

14.  Get approved NFA paperwork.

15.  Get less than 16” barrel/upper.

16.  Assembly your gun and enjoy.

Anybody that follow these steps will not have any problems.

Saved to MS Word for future reference.

Quoted: Saved to MS Word for future reference.

Same here

good info thanks! Hope to do it one day!!!

Quoted: Saved to MS Word for future reference.

Ditto

And thanks.  I wish this had been written up before so I did not have to sift through countless threads and eventually come up with the same process on my own.

Seydou

I am going to being doing this, so question......what do you have engraved? I have never really looked into it yet. I just know I am going through the trust method.

Quoted: I am going to being doing this, so question......what do you have engraved? I have never really looked into it yet. I just know I am going through the trust method.

You have it engraved with the name of the "maker" and the maker's location. YOU are the maker in this case.  

When my trust did an SBR, I engraved the following.

XXXXX NFA Trust
XXXXX OHIO

Thanks, this is essentially the process I am going through.

For the engraving: The ATF requirements call for it to be atleast 1/16th" tall and .003" deep.  To give you an idea of how deep .003" is, a standard 8.5 x 11" sheet (usually called 20 bond or "letter" size) paper for a copy machine is approximately .0038" thick.

More info about the thickness of a coating on ar15 lowers can be found here:
www.fulton-armory.com/Mil_Spec.htm

is the Tax Stamp $200?  ...and is this paid each time an NFA item (SBR, suppressor, etc) is procured?  

Thx.

Quoted: is the Tax Stamp $200?  ...and is this paid each time an NFA item (SBR, suppressor, etc) is procured?   Thx.

Yeah?  and is this one of those finger prints on file things?

Quoted: Quoted: is the Tax Stamp $200?  ...and is this paid each time an NFA item (SBR, suppressor, etc) is procured?   Thx. Yeah?  and is this one of those finger prints on file things?

Yes,yes, and yes.And pictures too!

Thank you Scottyryan.

Quoted: Thank you Scottyryan.

+1

height=8

Quoted: I'm going to tack this for a while, but I think we'll end up moving it to the NFA forum.

Where is the NFA forum located?

Quoted: Quoted: I'm going to tack this for a while, but I think we'll end up moving it to the NFA forum. Where is the NFA forum located?

In the Armory.

height=8

Quoted: Here is a guide to properly SBR your lower.  I put this together due to the rash of “mishaps” that seem to plague people who are SBRing their lower. 1.  Live in a Free State 2.  Realize that you will be married to this lower probably for the rest of your life and you will get pennies on the dollar if you try to sell it after the SBR process. 3.  Buy a quality lower preferably from a company that will service it after it has been SBRed.  Olympic Arms doesn't count and neither does any cast 1980s crap. 4.  Check all the pin holes to see if they are in spec.  Trigger/hammer holes are .154” and takedown holes are .248”.  The tolerances are +/- 0.001”.  Anything more than that is out of spec.  I don’t care what any blueprints say.  You can take 100 lowers and measure them yourself.  You will come up with these numbers. 5.  Measure the magazine well.  A good magazine well will measure .900” at the front and back and .970” at the slot.  If you are less than this, you may have magazine drop free problems.   6.  Assemble the lower with a quality LPK such as Colt or LMT.  Use a quality stock with proper buffer. 7.  Find an good carbine upper of known functioning. 8.  Place carbine upper and lower together and fire a minimum of 1,000 rounds through this combo to make sure you lower is good.  Preferably use a variety of magazines. 9.  Disassemble lower. 10.  Find a good engraver.  Orion Arms is good.  Your local trophy shop/jewelry store is probably not so don’t waste your time, neither is your Dremel tool. 11.  Send lower off for engraving.  You do this before you send in any paperwork to the ATF in case something happens to your lower during shipping to the engraver or damage at the engraver.  You don’t want to explain to the ATF that your NFA firearm is lost in the mail.  Anybody that does this backwards is a complete idiot. 12.  Get lower back and make sure everything is ok. 13.  Send in NFA paperwork 14.  Get approved NFA paperwork. 15.  Get less than 16” barrel/upper. 16.  Assembly your gun and enjoy. Anybody that follow these steps will not have any problems.

You might want to include the details of the paperwork and other logistics involved in completing your ATF paperwork, like do you do a form 4 or a title 2 form 1, how to get past idiot sheriffs, where to procure FBI fingerprint cards, etc..... You make the NFA paperwork seem easy and seamless. It is not, even in free States.

Also there are specifications to the engraving the lower, so you cannot just send it off and get whatever you want engraved on it.

Ted Clutter is a case worker at the BATF in W. Virginia He gave me the breakdown on the specs
Here it is:
Engraving specs:
Depth- .003" or greater
Size- 1/16" or greater
Location- Area not easily concealed or obstructed
Must include the following- Name of registered owner or corporation
city and state of owner or corporation
Caliber and model # (on most lowers
this info already exists)

RLT is acceptable in place of "Revocable Living Trust" (most people tell you it is not, but I will believe an ATF agent over most people when it comes to this)

As far as paperwork goes you will need the following:
A title 2 form 1 (application to make or assemble a weapon, you can specify on the form)
Citizenship certification form (available on NFA website)
FBI Fingerprint card (most law enforcement offices will charge you $5-$10 a card to complete)
2X Color head shot pictures (2"x2" max) (I used Passport Photo)

If you have a sheriff who is a tool you are not out of luck. Here is what you do:
Go to Staples, Office Depot or anywhere else that sells software and buy a copy of Quicken Willmaker 2007, install and run the "Create a revocable living trust" wizard, it will take 20 minutes, take it to your bank, have 2 copies notarized to include with your forms.
The best part of this is that the weapon is now owned by the corporation of You. Your employees are your family, who upon your death take legal ownership of the weapon, no transfer required.

Here is another important point. Do your paperwork before assembling the weapon. Do not even have the assembled upper in your house while you are waiting on the form to come back. DO NOT Push pins in on this weapon, that is a felony.

Buy the lower 1st(you will need the Serial #), then do your paperwork, wait for approval, then when you get your actual tax stamp back, then build the gun.

Here is mine.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o135/jnortham/IMG_1638.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o135/jnortham/2.jpg Older pix
VLtor MUR-1A Upper, CMMG 10.3" HBAR 1/7, M16 BCU, H2 Buffer, Mega Gator Lower, DPMS LPK, KNS anti-rotation pins, Tango Down Pistol Grip, VLtor Buffer tube, MagPul CTR-M, Larue BUIS, Larue IRONDOT, Surefire Scout, Tango Down Vert Grip: Currently getting "pistonized" by Adams Arms (http://www.adamsarms.net), adding VLtor Flash Suppressor,
Daniel Defense Orion Rail


As far as the actual tax stamp keep that in a safe deposit box, make copies, like 10 of them, keep one copy with the gun at all times, period. I don't care what anyone tells you. You take your 10.3" SBR to a range, and a snoopy cop comes up and starts asking you questions, you simply produce your tax stamp and carry on.

I have a Tango Down Vert Grip. I keep my copy wrapped around 2 CR123a's, presto. Always with the gun.
I hope this helps.


BTW, if you send orion-arms a lower that is not DPMS, they cannot guarantee that they will not chip the finish on the lower. don't take my word for it, call them and ask.

Quoted: 11.  Send lower off for engraving.  You do this before you send in any paperwork to the ATF in case something happens to your lower during shipping to the engraver or damage at the engraver.  You don’t want to explain to the ATF that your NFA firearm is lost in the mail.  Anybody that does this backwards is a complete idiot.

I just got off the phone with a fella at the NFA branch and he told me to wait until I got my approved tax stamp back before doing the engraving.  I think his name was Anton if I remember right from calling a few months ago (guy with the deep voice who seems to always answer the phone).

But that is fine with me tho... I have a local shop who meets the guidelines, so I don't have to mail anything off.

ATF NFA branch (304) 616-4500

gat

height=8

Quoted: 11.  Send lower off for engraving.  You do this before you send in any paperwork to the ATF in case something happens to your lower during shipping to the engraver or damage at the engraver.  You don’t want to explain to the ATF that your NFA firearm is lost in the mail.  Anybody that does this backwards is a complete idiot.

Why would you call anyone an idiot who did this in another fashion? I waited until after my title 2 form 1 was approved. Ted Clutter, NFA Case worker told me if anything ever happens that destroys the functionality or markings of your NFA titled lower, there is a simple form that the NFA can supply you with that transfers your tax stamp to another lower. It costs nothing and takes mere days...... I am surely not an idiot, I just get all my facts and follow the rules.
As long as you follow the letter of the law you are good to go. You can have your lower engraved after your tax stamp is approved. If you don't believe me, call the NFA in W.Va and ask for Ted Clutter, he will gladly dispel all rumors and half-truths.
Here are some helpful links:
www.nfa.gov
www.atf.gov

Here is another one, if you travel out of your state of residency with your SBR you must check to see if there are laws against the possession of NFA weapons at your destination.
You must also fill out and fax a travel/transfer form, the ATF approves almost the same day.

so can you have different calibers for the same lower?

even if it's marked 9mm but want to put a 5.56 upper on it?

I'll probably call the ATF next week on this but if antone can give an answer I would appreciate it.

Quoted: so can you have different calibers for the same lower? even if it's marked 9mm but want to put a 5.56 upper on it? I'll probably call the ATF next week on this but if antone can give an answer I would appreciate it.

yes

Quoted: As far as paperwork goes you will need the following: A title 2 form 1 x 2 Citizenship certification form (available on NFA website) FBI Fingerprint card  x 2 2X Color head shot pictures (2"x2" max) (I used Passport Photo) As far as the actual tax stamp keep that in a safe deposit box, make copies, like 10 of them, keep one copy with the gun at all times, period. I don't care what anyone tells you. You take your 10.3" SBR to a range, and a snoopy cop comes up and starts asking you questions, you simply produce your tax stamp and carry on. not required by law for most all sates, but a good idea

Corrected

(M16) How does an individual obtain authorization to make an NFA firearm? [Back]

Prior to making a firearm, the individual must submit ATF Form 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm, to the Bureau of ATF, NFA Branch, and receive approval. The applicant must follow the procedures described in Question M15 concerning photographs, fingerprints and certifications. The applicant must forward the original and a duplicate of the form along with a check or money order for $200 made payable to the Bureau of ATF. If the application is approved, the original of the form with the cancelled stamp affixed showing approval will be returned to the applicant. If the application is denied, the tax will be refunded.

Applications to make a firearm will not be approved if Federal, State, or local law prohibits possession of the firearm.

[26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 479.61-65]

Quoted: Here is a guide to properly SBR your lower.   SNIPPED TO SAVE BANDWIDTH

sage advice, scottryan..... Thanks for posting it

WRT, and IMHO to the do-it-yourself-dremel engraving...........to each his own. I wouldn't do it, but it doesn''t matter because SBR projects are so rarely sold they become a personal thing and it was in the magwell. (does this pass muster with the "Area not easily concealed or obstructed" requirement?)

The point of the topic post is well taken - SBR registration is easy to do and provides enjoyment 10-fold the time and investment.

Quoted: ALSO SNIPPED TO SAVE SPACE

Helpful as well, USFalcon

You should contribute more often. Welcome to the site...

Wow, there's a lot of missing information in here about the paper work specifics.

What we truly need is someone to compile and distill the process of the complete Form 1 process and post it as a true step by step guide.

Hardwarz

It wasn't intended to give all the specifics.

This is good info, and it's the process I am using as well, but there is still one thing I have not gotten a clear answer for.

What SPECIFICALLY is absolutely REQUIRED to be engraved on the lower?

Your name, City, and State - Well Duh BUT... for example.

Let's say my name is "My Full Name", and I use the Revocable Living Trust option, AND my RLT is titled as the "My F. Name Revocable Living Trust" document.

Are there any engraving scenarios below that would not be considered acceptable?  I have combined some changes to save on space.

My F. Name Revocable Living  Trust
City, State

My F. Name
Revocable Living Trust
City, State

My F. Name Trust
City, State

M.F.Name Trust
City, State

M Name RLT
City, ST

 I usually see just "My Name Trust", and have NEVER seen "Revocable Living Trust".  Normally on ARFCOM, the owner of the SBR will block out their engraving (understandable) so it's not something I have a clear answer for.

Thanks

Quoted: Wow, there's a lot of missing information in here about the paper work specifics. What we truly need is someone to compile and distill the process of the complete Form 1 process and post it as a true step by step guide. Hardwarz

Jump on it.

Or, is it easier to simply criticize and not add anything productive at all?

height=8

Quoted: This is good info, and it's the process I am using as well, but there is still one thing I have not gotten a clear answer for. What SPECIFICALLY is absolutely REQUIRED to be engraved on the lower? Your name, City, and State - Well Duh he Are there any engraving scenarios below that would not be considered acceptable?  I have combined some changes to save on space. My F. Name Revocable Living  Trust City, State My F. Name Revocable Living Trust City, State My F. Name Trust City, State M.F.Name Trust City, State M Name RLT City, ST  I usually see just "My Name Trust", and have NEVER seen "Revocable Living Trust".  Normally on ARFCOM, the owner of the SBR will block out their engraving (understandable) so it's not something I have a clear answer for. Thanks

on a conspicuous area of the lower, usually the Right Side, if the firearm is registered to an individual, it should be the individual's name. If it is a Revocable Living Trust and that trust was established by John Doe, the engraving should read the same way that it is written on your trust document. So if the document says "John Doe Revocable Living Trust"
your engraving should say "John Doe RLT" (Ted Clutter at the NFA Desk in W Va. will verify this for you if you need)

Quoted: Wow, there's a lot of missing information in here about the paper work specifics. What we truly need is someone to compile and distill the process of the complete Form 1 process and post it as a true step by step guide. Hardwarz

I think it is a good overview and not meant as a paint by numbers instruction sheet for the whole process. In my experience it was beneficial for me to do my own research. If you are only following a list of instructions you dont get a full understanding of all the legal aspects of NFA ownership.

While specifics about paperwork are not addressed he did add some valuable info that alot of folks overlook. Specifically steps 3-8 which will make the diference between happy shooting and heartache over a papered reciever that is out of spec.

My trust is John Middle Doe and Jane Middle Doe Revocable Living Trust.  Do I really need to engrave John Middle Doe and Jane Middle Doe RTL?  I would prefer something like Doe Trust or Doe RLT?  Maybe even JMD & JMD RTL? THX!  

if you want anything other than the exact name of your trust and the city & state send a letter to the ATF Tech Branch with what you want to use and see if they approve it.  There is a list somewhere of ATF accepted abbreviations as well.

FYI, there is no height requirement for the SBR engraving, only depth.

I would be shocked if ATF would 'transfer' your stamp to another weapon if something happened to it; different weapon, different stamp.

Quoted: Quoted: 11.  Send lower off for engraving.  You do this before you send in any paperwork to the ATF in case something happens to your lower during shipping to the engraver or damage at the engraver.  You don’t want to explain to the ATF that your NFA firearm is lost in the mail.  Anybody that does this backwards is a complete idiot. Why would you call anyone an idiot who did this in another fashion? I waited until after my title 2 form 1 was approved. Ted Clutter, NFA Case worker told me if anything ever happens that destroys the functionality or markings of your NFA titled lower, there is a simple form that the NFA can supply you with that transfers your tax stamp to another lower. It costs nothing and takes mere days...... I am surely not an idiot, I just get all my facts and follow the rules. As long as you follow the letter of the law you are good to go. You can have your lower engraved after your tax stamp is approved. If you don't believe me, call the NFA in W.Va and ask for Ted Clutter, he will gladly dispel all rumors and half-truths. Here are some helpful links: www.nfa.gov www.atf.gov Here is another one, if you travel out of your state of residency with your SBR you must check to see if there are laws against the possession of NFA weapons at your destination. You must also fill out and fax a travel/transfer form, the ATF approves almost the same day.

I wouldn't worry about it because he's pissed off at what happened in the Orion Arms engraving review thread. He's a chicken shit because he's afraid of having a $100 lower lost in mail while the rest of us are mailing thousands of dollars worth of NFA firearms back and forth without a problem.

height=8

Quoted: My trust is John Middle Doe and Jane Middle Doe Revocable Living Trust.  Do I really need to engrave John Middle Doe and Jane Middle Doe RTL?  I would prefer something like Doe Trust or Doe RLT?  Maybe even JMD & JMD RTL? THX!

It has to have all the proper names of the RLT on it.

height=8

Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: 11.  Send lower off for engraving.  You do this before you send in any paperwork to the ATF in case something happens to your lower during shipping to the engraver or damage at the engraver.  You don’t want to explain to the ATF that your NFA firearm is lost in the mail.  Anybody that does this backwards is a complete idiot. Why would you call anyone an idiot who did this in another fashion? I waited until after my title 2 form 1 was approved. Ted Clutter, NFA Case worker told me if anything ever happens that destroys the functionality or markings of your NFA titled lower, there is a simple form that the NFA can supply you with that transfers your tax stamp to another lower. It costs nothing and takes mere days...... I am surely not an idiot, I just get all my facts and follow the rules. As long as you follow the letter of the law you are good to go. You can have your lower engraved after your tax stamp is approved. If you don't believe me, call the NFA in W.Va and ask for Ted Clutter, he will gladly dispel all rumors and half-truths. Here are some helpful links: www.nfa.gov www.atf.gov Here is another one, if you travel out of your state of residency with your SBR you must check to see if there are laws against the possession of NFA weapons at your destination. You must also fill out and fax a travel/transfer form, the ATF approves almost the same day. I wouldn't worry about it because he's pissed off at what happened in the Orion Arms engraving review thread. He's a chicken shit because he's afraid of having a $100 lower lost in mail while the rest of us are mailing thousands of dollars worth of NFA firearms back and forth without a problem.

Gotcha.

Thinking about going this route, but I have a Colt 6920, I understand the pins are .170.  I cannot measure them, will this pose functional issues?  I don't see how, but please, educate me...

pat

Quoted: *snip* 2.  Realize that you will be married to this lower probably for the rest of your life and you will get pennies on the dollar if you try to sell it after the SBR process. *snip* 10.  Find a good engraver.  Orion Arms is good.  Your local trophy shop/jewelry store is probably not so don’t waste your time, neither is your Dremel tool. *snip*

your number 2, and number 10, are kind of in conflict with eachother...

i realized a lllooooooonnnnngggg time ago that form 1 SBR lowers are worth basically nothing on the market, and as you so correctly pointed out will most likely be married to me for the rest of my life. having a big, fancy, ornate engraving isn't going to add to the value, so screw it.

i just take out the old vibratory engraver and put my info just in front of the trigger. it's discreet, placed where it has about 0% chance of getting damaged, and meets all of the depth and size requirements. besides, it's gonna get used anyhow. it's going to find some dents and dings over the next few years, so i'm not super anal about it looking perfect...

anyone REALLY antsy about the "value" of their SBR lower should not even consider engraving the lower at all. engrave the upper reciever. done correctly it still meets ATF requirements, it's not a firearm, a replacement can be bought for $90 through the mail, and if you ever decide to remove your SBR from the registry for any reason, there is no marking left on the lower.

Quoted: Quoted: *snip* 2.  Realize that you will be married to this lower probably for the rest of your life and you will get pennies on the dollar if you try to sell it after the SBR process. *snip* 10.  Find a good engraver.  Orion Arms is good.  Your local trophy shop/jewelry store is probably not so don’t waste your time, neither is your Dremel tool. *snip* your number 2, and number 10, are kind of in conflict with eachother... i realized a lllooooooonnnnngggg time ago that form 1 SBR lowers are worth basically nothing on the market, and as you so correctly pointed out will most likely be married to me for the rest of my life. having a big, fancy, ornate engraving isn't going to add to the value, so screw it. i just take out the old vibratory engraver and put my info just in front of the trigger. it's discreet, placed where it has about 0% chance of getting damaged, and meets all of the depth and size requirements. besides, it's gonna get used anyhow. it's going to find some dents and dings over the next few years, so i'm not super anal about it looking perfect... anyone REALLY antsy about the "value" of their SBR lower should not even consider engraving the lower at all. engrave the upper reciever. done correctly it still meets ATF requirements, it's not a firearm, a replacement can be bought for $90 through the mail, and if you ever decide to remove your SBR from the registry for any reason, there is no marking left on the lower.

You should consider the value of you SBR when a new ban comes.  Nothing I posted is in conflict with one another.

Spending $50 now to have in professionally engraved might net you an extra $300 when you sell it during a ban, over one that has been electropenciled.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: *snip* 2.  Realize that you will be married to this lower probably for the rest of your life and you will get pennies on the dollar if you try to sell it after the SBR process. *snip* 10.  Find a good engraver.  Orion Arms is good.  Your local trophy shop/jewelry store is probably not so don’t waste your time, neither is your Dremel tool. *snip* your number 2, and number 10, are kind of in conflict with eachother... i realized a lllooooooonnnnngggg time ago that form 1 SBR lowers are worth basically nothing on the market, and as you so correctly pointed out will most likely be married to me for the rest of my life. having a big, fancy, ornate engraving isn't going to add to the value, so screw it. i just take out the old vibratory engraver and put my info just in front of the trigger. it's discreet, placed where it has about 0% chance of getting damaged, and meets all of the depth and size requirements. besides, it's gonna get used anyhow. it's going to find some dents and dings over the next few years, so i'm not super anal about it looking perfect... anyone REALLY antsy about the "value" of their SBR lower should not even consider engraving the lower at all. engrave the upper reciever. done correctly it still meets ATF requirements, it's not a firearm, a replacement can be bought for $90 through the mail, and if you ever decide to remove your SBR from the registry for any reason, there is no marking left on the lower. You should consider the value of you SBR when a new ban comes.  Nothing I posted is in conflict with one another. Spending $50 now to have in professionally engraved might net you an extra $300 when you sell it during a ban, over one that has been electropenciled.

i'm not concerned about the re-sale value since i don't intend to sell any of them. ever. if they go anywhere, they'll be distributed to family after i'm gone.

i don't believe we will ever see another "assault weapons ban", but even if we do and it shuts the market off completely, 20 years from now is that little engraving is going to have a negative effect on the overall value? maybe. considering that re-welded M16s are selling for ten grand, i'll consider it to still be a solid investment.

height=8

Quoted: anyone REALLY antsy about the "value" of their SBR lower should not even consider engraving the lower at all. engrave the upper reciever. done correctly it still meets ATF requirements, it's not a firearm, a replacement can be bought for $90 through the mail, and if you ever decide to remove your SBR from the registry for any reason, there is no marking left on the lower.

I recommend that you engrave the lower receiver. The reason is that engraving the upper does not follow the the ATF requirements as your upper is not serialized, therefore not the traceable part of the weapon. The only part of your SBR that is registered is the lower itself, you are married to the barrel length minimum, but you are not married to any other component over than the lower receiver. The ATF requires that the lower be engraved.
I recommend that you follow the ATF guidelines rather than the "advice" of someone who has not read the ATF guidelines and do not understand the repercussions of incorrectly engraving or any of the the other "shortcuts" they mentioned.

Quoted: Quoted: anyone REALLY antsy about the "value" of their SBR lower should not even consider engraving the lower at all. engrave the upper reciever. done correctly it still meets ATF requirements, it's not a firearm, a replacement can be bought for $90 through the mail, and if you ever decide to remove your SBR from the registry for any reason, there is no marking left on the lower. I recommend that you engrave the lower receiver. The reason is that engraving the upper does not follow the the ATF requirements as your upper is not serialized, therefore not the traceable part of the weapon. The only part of your SBR that is registered is the lower itself, you are married to the barrel length minimum, but you are not married to any other component over than the lower receiver. The ATF requires that the lower be engraved. I recommend that you follow the ATF guidelines rather than the "advice" of someone who has not read the ATF guidelines and do not understand the repercussions of incorrectly engraving or any of the the other "shortcuts" they mentioned.

you are wrong.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: *snip* 2.  Realize that you will be married to this lower probably for the rest of your life and you will get pennies on the dollar if you try to sell it after the SBR process. *snip* 10.  Find a good engraver.  Orion Arms is good.  Your local trophy shop/jewelry store is probably not so don’t waste your time, neither is your Dremel tool. *snip* your number 2, and number 10, are kind of in conflict with eachother... i realized a lllooooooonnnnngggg time ago that form 1 SBR lowers are worth basically nothing on the market, and as you so correctly pointed out will most likely be married to me for the rest of my life. having a big, fancy, ornate engraving isn't going to add to the value, so screw it. i just take out the old vibratory engraver and put my info just in front of the trigger. it's discreet, placed where it has about 0% chance of getting damaged, and meets all of the depth and size requirements. besides, it's gonna get used anyhow. it's going to find some dents and dings over the next few years, so i'm not super anal about it looking perfect... anyone REALLY antsy about the "value" of their SBR lower should not even consider engraving the lower at all. engrave the upper reciever. done correctly it still meets ATF requirements, it's not a firearm, a replacement can be bought for $90 through the mail, and if you ever decide to remove your SBR from the registry for any reason, there is no marking left on the lower. You should consider the value of you SBR when a new ban comes.  Nothing I posted is in conflict with one another. Spending $50 now to have in professionally engraved might net you an extra $300 when you sell it during a ban, over one that has been electropenciled. i'm not concerned about the re-sale value since i don't intend to sell any of them. ever. if they go anywhere, they'll be distributed to family after i'm gone. i don't believe we will ever see another "assault weapons ban", but even if we do and it shuts the market off completely, 20 years from now is that little engraving is going to have a negative effect on the overall value? maybe. considering that re-welded M16s are selling for ten grand, i'll consider it to still be a solid investment.

That is a fair point if you don't intend to sell it, but some always have in mind the selling value of their firearms.


Electropencil engraving will certainly affect the value of your lower in the future.  If we have a new AWB ban, you might get $3000 for a lower that has professional engraving, $2500 for one with electropencil.

height=8

Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: anyone REALLY antsy about the "value" of their SBR lower should not even consider engraving the lower at all. engrave the upper reciever. done correctly it still meets ATF requirements, it's not a firearm, a replacement can be bought for $90 through the mail, and if you ever decide to remove your SBR from the registry for any reason, there is no marking left on the lower. I recommend that you engrave the lower receiver. The reason is that engraving the upper does not follow the the ATF requirements as your upper is not serialized, therefore not the traceable part of the weapon. The only part of your SBR that is registered is the lower itself, you are married to the barrel length minimum, but you are not married to any other component over than the lower receiver. The ATF requires that the lower be engraved. I recommend that you follow the ATF guidelines rather than the "advice" of someone who has not read the ATF guidelines and do not understand the repercussions of incorrectly engraving or any of the the other "shortcuts" they mentioned. you are wrong.

Tell you what, I will call the ATF and ask them, better to give accurate info than telling people to go with what you think. I will let you know what they say.

I second the "dont waste your time engraving it at a trophy shop"  The guys I took it to couldnt get deep enough and informed me of that only after they tried it.  Lucky it was just into the duracoat and easily covered.  I sent it to Orion Arms and it came back GREAT!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: anyone REALLY antsy about the "value" of their SBR lower should not even consider engraving the lower at all. engrave the upper reciever. done correctly it still meets ATF requirements, it's not a firearm, a replacement can be bought for $90 through the mail, and if you ever decide to remove your SBR from the registry for any reason, there is no marking left on the lower. I recommend that you engrave the lower receiver. The reason is that engraving the upper does not follow the the ATF requirements as your upper is not serialized, therefore not the traceable part of the weapon. The only part of your SBR that is registered is the lower itself, you are married to the barrel length minimum, but you are not married to any other component over than the lower receiver. The ATF requires that the lower be engraved. I recommend that you follow the ATF guidelines rather than the "advice" of someone who has not read the ATF guidelines and do not understand the repercussions of incorrectly engraving or any of the the other "shortcuts" they mentioned. you are wrong. Tell you what, I will call the ATF and ask them, better to give accurate info than telling people to go with what you think. I will let you know what they say.

please do. when they go ahead and inform you that the "barrel, frame, or reciever" are all acceptable places to engrave the makers information, then come back here and post it to confirm what i "thought".

after that, give remington a call and tell them that they've been "ok" to mark the makers information on the barrel and the serial number on the reciever, on all those shotguns they've been making.

ETA: to make this easy, i finally went and looked myself. here you go, right out of the ATF's NFA handbook:

7.4.2 Additional information. Certain additional information must also be conspicuously placed on
the frame, receiver, or barrel of the firearm by engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), that is, they
must be placed in such a manner that they are wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms
manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch.

height=8

Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: anyone REALLY antsy about the "value" of their SBR lower should not even consider engraving the lower at all. engrave the upper reciever. done correctly it still meets ATF requirements, it's not a firearm, a replacement can be bought for $90 through the mail, and if you ever decide to remove your SBR from the registry for any reason, there is no marking left on the lower. I recommend that you engrave the lower receiver. The reason is that engraving the upper does not follow the the ATF requirements as your upper is not serialized, therefore not the traceable part of the weapon. The only part of your SBR that is registered is the lower itself, you are married to the barrel length minimum, but you are not married to any other component over than the lower receiver. The ATF requires that the lower be engraved. I recommend that you follow the ATF guidelines rather than the "advice" of someone who has not read the ATF guidelines and do not understand the repercussions of incorrectly engraving or any of the the other "shortcuts" they mentioned. you are wrong. Tell you what, I will call the ATF and ask them, better to give accurate info than telling people to go with what you think. I will let you know what they say. please do. when they go ahead and inform you that the "barrel, frame, or reciever" are all acceptable places to engrave the makers information, then come back here and post it to confirm what i "thought". after that, give remington a call and tell them that they've been "ok" to mark the makers information on the barrel and the serial number on the reciever, on all those shotguns they've been making. ETA: to make this easy, i finally went and looked myself. here you go, right out of the ATF's NFA handbook: 7.4.2 Additional information. Certain additional information must also be conspicuously placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel of the firearm by engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), that is, they must be placed in such a manner that they are wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch.

I stand corrected:

Fm: Ted Clutter
National Firearms Act Branch
244 NEEDY ROAD - SUITE 1250
MARTINSBURG, WV 25405-9431

"The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being
readily obliterated, altered, or removed...Placed on the frame,
receiver, or barrel thereof..."


please accept my apologies.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: anyone REALLY antsy about the "value" of their SBR lower should not even consider engraving the lower at all. engrave the upper reciever. done correctly it still meets ATF requirements, it's not a firearm, a replacement can be bought for $90 through the mail, and if you ever decide to remove your SBR from the registry for any reason, there is no marking left on the lower. I recommend that you engrave the lower receiver. The reason is that engraving the upper does not follow the the ATF requirements as your upper is not serialized, therefore not the traceable part of the weapon. The only part of your SBR that is registered is the lower itself, you are married to the barrel length minimum, but you are not married to any other component over than the lower receiver. The ATF requires that the lower be engraved. I recommend that you follow the ATF guidelines rather than the "advice" of someone who has not read the ATF guidelines and do not understand the repercussions of incorrectly engraving or any of the the other "shortcuts" they mentioned. you are wrong. Tell you what, I will call the ATF and ask them, better to give accurate info than telling people to go with what you think. I will let you know what they say. please do. when they go ahead and inform you that the "barrel, frame, or reciever" are all acceptable places to engrave the makers information, then come back here and post it to confirm what i "thought". after that, give remington a call and tell them that they've been "ok" to mark the makers information on the barrel and the serial number on the reciever, on all those shotguns they've been making. ETA: to make this easy, i finally went and looked myself. here you go, right out of the ATF's NFA handbook: 7.4.2 Additional information. Certain additional information must also be conspicuously placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel of the firearm by engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), that is, they must be placed in such a manner that they are wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. I stand corrected: Fm: Ted Clutter National Firearms Act Branch 244 NEEDY ROAD - SUITE 1250 MARTINSBURG, WV 25405-9431 "The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed...Placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof..." please accept my apologies.

none needed.