I got a letter today from the PSP. From Sept 02 thru Sept 06 the state Instant Check system will be down for the implementation of a new database. All checks during this time will be put on an "Undetermined" or "Denied" status.

THERE WILL BE NO APPROVAL NUMBERS ISSUED DURING THIS TIME.

I just wanted to make you guys aware of this. It's not your dealers fault if you walk in his store during those dates. Don't go whining to him about it, he's not happy about it either.

The letter says till the 6th but I would expect a few days of "Working the bugs out" after that date.

Again, this is just an FYI to you guys. You may now proceed with the rest of your lives.

Guys,

Please copy and paste this info into other forums you visit. I don't want people bitching at their dealers cause they can't do the sale. You have to get the word out on this. If not then some people will not understand and get all pissed off at the dealer like he doesn't want to make the sale.

And just so everyone can continue bitching.  They can't legally suspend gun sales per state law.  Unfortunately the the letter they sent dealers doesn't mention this.

§6111.1. Pennsylvania State Police (2)  In the event of electronic failure, scheduled computer downtime or similar event beyond the control of the Pennsyl­vania State Police, the Pennsylvania State Police shall immedi­ately notify the requesting licensee of the reason for and estimated length of the delay. If the failure or event lasts for a period exceeding 48 hours, the dealer shall not be subject to any penalty for completing a transaction absent the completion of an instantaneous records check for the remainder of the failure or similar event, but the dealer shall obtain a completed applica­tion/record of sale following the provisions of section 6111(b)(1) and (1.1) (relating to sale or transfer of firearms) as if an instan­taneous records check has not been established for any sale or transfer of a firearm for the purpose of a subsequent background check. (Chgd. by L.1997, Act 5(1), eff. 6/21/97.)

There are reasons we have state laws.  But as usual the PSP chooses to ignore the laws and make their own policy :(  They need to be reigned in.

Quoted: And just so everyone can continue bitching.  They can't legally suspend gun sales per state law.  Unfortunately the the letter they sent dealers doesn't mention this. §6111.1. Pennsylvania State Police (2)  In the event of electronic failure, scheduled computer downtime or similar event beyond the control of the Pennsyl­vania State Police, the Pennsylvania State Police shall immedi­ately notify the requesting licensee of the reason for and estimated length of the delay. If the failure or event lasts for a period exceeding 48 hours, the dealer shall not be subject to any penalty for completing a transaction absent the completion of an instantaneous records check for the remainder of the failure or similar event, but the dealer shall obtain a completed applica­tion/record of sale following the provisions of section 6111(b)(1) and (1.1) (relating to sale or transfer of firearms) as if an instan­taneous records check has not been established for any sale or transfer of a firearm for the purpose of a subsequent background check. (Chgd. by L.1997, Act 5(1), eff. 6/21/97.) There are reasons we have state laws.  But as usual the PSP chooses to ignore the laws and make their own policy :(  They need to be reigned in.

So how can they get away with it then? Bastards!

they are banking on you not having the resources to fight them should they come
after you. politics never changes; just the fronts and disguises !

I sent the statute to the NRAILA, and asked if injunctive relief could be pursued.

The letter says they won't issue approvals during that time.  It doesn't say the sale cannot go through.  Statutorily, it seems to me that they can't stop the sale if the computer is out for more than 48 hours.

What if they simply said, "we're not issuing any approvals THIS YEAR"  ?

These protections are written there in the statute to prevent such parliamentary gun control, as legislated from the patrol car.

--Fargo007

Last night's news(WNEP) had a story with Fast Eddie putting a stop on the outage. He said the state was going to take a look at how to do the upgrade to the system without shutting it down. Also, the state would consult sportsmen groups before doing anything.

Quoted: Last night's news(WNEP) had a story with Fast Eddie putting a stop on the outage. He said the state was going to take a look at how to do the upgrade to the system without shutting it down. Also, the state would consult sportsmen groups before doing anything.

Can you believe it?  Philly is losing its grip on Fast Eddie!  He was last heard getting an “Informal committee” to find a better date to install the upgrade.  If that had happened just after he was elected he would have just said “Shut it down and do the upgrade” without missing a beat.  There’s hope for Democrats yet!

I think.


Meanwhile:
What The High Road is saying about it.

Edited to fix link.

Quoted: What if they simply said, "we're not issuing any approvals THIS YEAR"  ? --Fargo007

Then it would seem to be similar to the ATF if you try to get a form approved nowadays to manufacture a machine gun!

It would seem this is going forward as planned.

Quoted: It would seem this is going forward as planned.

It seems to.

But the outage seems to have been dropped to only 3 days now.
Some people & some stores have said they would sue.  Good luck to them.

Company I work for would absolutely die if they shut down there servers for 4 days to upgrade them.

Are you telling me they dont have backup servers that run parallel to the primary servers. We are constantly upgrading our servers and communication gear in our server farms and client sites during business hours with zero interruptions in service. Only place we cannot touch equipment until after hours is on equipment that is in the NYSE or similar institutions.

No excuse to deny access to the system while they are upgrading.  

Quoted: Company I work for would absolutely die if they shut down there servers for 4 days to upgrade them. Are you telling me they dont have backup servers that run parallel to the primary servers. We are constantly upgrading our servers and communication gear in our server farms and client sites during business hours with zero interruptions in service. Only place we cannot touch equipment until after hours is on equipment that is in the NYSE or similar institutions. No excuse to deny access to the system while they are upgrading.

You posting on MCall.com?

Quoted: Quoted: Company I work for would absolutely die if they shut down there servers for 4 days to upgrade them. Are you telling me they dont have backup servers that run parallel to the primary servers. We are constantly upgrading our servers and communication gear in our server farms and client sites during business hours with zero interruptions in service. Only place we cannot touch equipment until after hours is on equipment that is in the NYSE or similar institutions. No excuse to deny access to the system while they are upgrading.   You posting on MCall.com?

Never heard of the site, anything good?

Edited to add
Just checked it out and posted, seems there is an outspoken FUDD on there.

He's totally correct from an IT perspective.  

To even PROPOSE an arrangement in which business must cease for two days, even a weekend would get me laughed out the board room with my last paycheck stuck where the sun don't shine.

You first build a new one, test it, and then cut over to the new one.

I can't imagine what operation they are undertaking from an IT perspective that this becomes necessary.

If it's truly the case, it's colossal mismanagement.  Perhaps is a foray into their ability to stall firearm sales under some other pretext?

I'm surprised nobody's following the law here.  Their outage isn't allowed to stop transfers.

--Fargo007

this is a test, only a test
now move along,move along sheeple

Quoted: this is a test, only a test now move along,move along sheeple

Keep on stirrin' that stewpot..........

please mr. rigde...please come back and be our governer...

I eliminated the problem by buying a 10/22 yesterday, rather than wait until next week.  

uh.... I think that this may apply to the PA system being shut down... whether anyone will be brave enough to try it, though.....

www.pacode.com/secure/data/037/chapter33/s33.111.html

(c) Retail sale/transfer of a handgun or long gun prior to the implementation of the instantaneous background check. The following are steps for completing the application/record of sale for a retail sale/transfer of a handgun or, a long gun as required in section 6111(b)(1.1)(i) of the act, prior to the implementation of the instantaneous background check.

(1) The applicant is provided an application/record of sale form and the applicant shall complete the applicable blocks as indicated on the form. If the applicant does not complete all of the required information or checks ’’yes’’ to any of the questions under transferee’s/purchaser’s information on the form, the sale/transfer may not take place.

(2) The licensee/sheriff shall check the applicant’s identification and ensure it meets the requirements under § 33.102 (relating to definitions).

(3) The licensee/sheriff shall ensure the form has been accurately completed.

(4) The licensee/sheriff shall comply with any applicable waiting period (Federal or State).

(5) If the sale/transfer is not denied, the transaction may be completed and the licensee/sheriff shall complete the applicable sections on the form as per block instructions, and provide the transferee/purchaser a summary of the uniform firearm laws which includes a safety brochure. The transferee/purchaser shall then sign the designated block on the form.

(d) Retail sale/transfer of a handgun or long gun after the implementation of the instantaneous background check. The following are steps for completing the application/record of sale for a retail sale/transfer of a handgun or long gun as required in section 6111(b)(1.1)(i) of the act, upon the implementation of the instantaneous background check. If the system becomes inoperable for a period exceeding 48 hours as indicated by the State Police at the time an instant background check is requested, the licensee/sheriff shall follow the procedures outlined in subsection (c) for any firearm. This procedure shall stay in effect during the time indicated by State Police at the time of the check. However licensees are still required to comply with the Federal requirements of 18 U.S.C.A. § 922(T) (relating to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System).


it sounds like you can bypass the state check, if it is down for greater than 48 hours, and you do a fed NICS check...

Now that it's over, did anybody get something that makes very loud noises?

It doesn't make any noise, but I picked up a MEGA lower yesterday  

And it is SWEET!  nothing wrong with my Stag, but the MEGA is puuurrty.