I started a new thread to post pics and comments about the course!
Here is a pic of the attendees!

front row l-r; photoman, sully, tommytrauma, Carrie(she's w/FMD), TheKill
back row l-r; Drdoolittle_1,MisterPX, glenn_r, BulletcatcheR, drjarhead, none, FMD
Sorry Irv and Carrie...do you have user names that I can put in? Everyone else....correct me if I made mistakes!!!
Cheers,
Dave

PICS-More to come
I've got another like 50 or so to go through but my computer kept crashing on me last night. I'll try to get to them today after work. Still to go is some of the movment drill stuff as well as the long range stuff.

Also if you want a pic, right click and save it, it should save as an 8X10 image, for some reason where I host them it won't show on screen here as the full 8X10. If it doesn't save as an 8x10 let me know I'll get you an 8X10 copy.


Will/Kill(l to r) For all your pest control needs, we shoot em dead.


QuinlanV going to the pistol durring the melt down.






Sully does some splanin'


None getting low and putting lead down range.


Sully watches as None pops off some rounds


another one of None


Death451


BulletcatcheR in the forward movement drill


Tommy shooting as he closes in on the target.


MisterPX. Find the brass, it's in there, I missed it till I blew the pic up bigger. Can ya find it.


Carrie durring the left to right movment drill


TheKill


drdoolittle_1


Sully does some more splanin' as Glenn watches


Another one of None


Sully checks out the target while FMD shoots on the move


Sully watchin FMD as he shoots on the move


Tommy durring the left to right movment drill


MisterPX with the M1A after getting sick of doing failure to extract drills because of soft brass.

Quoted: Quoted: Tag, for a spot for my pics Pics should start showing up around 2000. I just looked at the schedual, I work a 12 today. Yippie Hey Tattoo, when ya get some time, could we get this thread tacked?? sure ya have a big party and dont invite me then you want your post tacked?

Hey it's not our fault you didn't come. how was gunstock.

yep was much fun and i learned a lot


BTW tommy I need my longjohns back soon going duck hunting this weekend

Quoted: yep was much fun and i learned a lot BTW tommy I need my longjohns back soon going duck hunting this weekend

Irv??

hehehehe yep

Quoted: hehehehe yep

Welcome to the asylum

Welcome to the asylum hr

well after meeting you guys I kinda figured this place would jsut a little strange

Quoted: Welcome to the asylum well after meeting you guys I kinda figured this place would jsut a little strange

Go hit the the GD and do an itro thread and tell them yer a female, see how crazy it gets.....

aint no way you guys scare me enuf as it is

Quoted: aint no way you guys scare me enuf as it is

We're nothing compared to some of these guys, and gals. But it's a great site. Lots of good info and people. It's like a big extended family.

Looks like the class was a big success.  Wish I could have been there.  Looking forward to more pics and some more detailed AARs.  

Damn Irv,

I thought for SURE you'd get an account as "Blade"

-FMD,
A.K.A. "Blade II"

Quoted: Damn Irv, I thought for SURE you'd get an account as "Blade" -FMD, A.K.A. "Blade II"

Quoted: yep was much fun and i learned a lot BTW tommy I need my longjohns back soon going duck hunting this weekend

With or without the skidmarks?

Bear with me here. It gets uglier.

Quoted: Looks like the class was a big success.  Wish I could have been there.  Looking forward to more pics and some more detailed AARs.

DC, you gotta make the next class. We had an excellent time, and learned a lot. Cross -posting from another thread;

It's hard to know where to begin. Great class, gereat bunch of folk. Sully was supurb as an instructor. Everyone seemed to be starting out at around the same point, and the class progressed at the perfect pace.

Class started with maintaince and a few equipment hints. (Hint; If you're missing a take down pin detent, your take down pin falls out in front of the whole class.) We then moved to zeroing, with Sully endorsing the Santose 50 yard zero. From there, we covered carbine / pistol transition, shooting positions including prone, SBU prone, shooting from around wierd shit prone, kneeling, shooting with a dislocated patella from kneeling on a small tree stump, and standing. We went into shooting on the move forward, backward, and lateral, stoppage drills, reload drills, communication, etc. We finished with some good, solid distance shooting. Dr. Doolittle made the day by pulling out a .458 socom and letting everyone spend his expensive ammo wacking steel gongs with it.

Sully endorses a shooting posture that places you square to the target, legs almost even with the strong leg just a half step behind the weak. elbows pulled tight in under the weapon, slight bend at the T-spine with pelvis pulled in.. It's different than how I was taught, and does indeed seem to be a much more stable platform. Let's you transition to a pistol without changing stance, lets you move and shoot well. He presented a couple of ways to move in each direction, with the "groucho" walk working best for me forward, a similar toe / heel walk backwards, and a simple slide for lateral movements. His varied shooting positions allow you to shoot and make hits from behing almost any form of cover.


Stan's place was great for the course, and his hospitality can't be beat. Everyone there was there to learn, and there was a wealth of knowledge shared by the students as well as Sully. I have to admit to being surprised as well as pleased at not seeing a single safety problem during the whole weekend. We ran a hot range, and everyone obviously already had the safety fundamentals deeply ingrained.

Saturday night was a bit chilly for those of us who camped out, but it was worth in to see the the great chair burning.

A lot of what Sully taught us is gonna take some serious practice to work into muscle memory. (Just ask Blade I and II. ) I usually throw away 20% or 30% of what any instructor offers. I walked away with a whole lot more than that from this class though.

Quite simply, we HAVE to do this again. Was tremendous fun as well as great instruction.

Note to self; Don't let Chris catch you staring at Carrie's butt. Seems to be a sore point.

Your welcome everyone,and thanks for training safely.It really felt good to do some training,it's a GOLDEN opportunity to learn from someone of Sully's calibre.

Sorry about your knee Tommy,I was pussyfooting thru class myself trying not to blow mine out.
The drugs haven't fully worn off yet but my leg and knee hasn't felt better in months after getting scoped this morning.I get my left knee MRI'd in a couple of weeks and most likely will get to do it all again.I'm going to explain to my physical therapist the merits of the groucho, shuffle and moonwalk then beg for an M855 RX so I can write off my ammo.
It looks like I'll be on R&R for awhile...Anybody interested in doing some convoy driver's battle drills LMK.

TNX to everyone for the $$ donations and especially those who came out last Saturday to help whack weeds.


BulletcatchR(out for the count)

Bump for pics

Excellent pics photoman!  Are you going to post some more?

Quoted: Excellent pics photoman!  Are you going to post some more?

Ya I'm going to try and get the rest done and a couple more up.

ETA: everytime I try to get the last set of pics off the drive, it crashes, gunna take a litle time before I get the rest of them....

"MisterPX. Find the brass."

Oh I found the brass alright, it's right there stuck in my chamber.

So Kill you got pics?

For those who weren't able to attend, I'll post Sully's syllabus as shown in a prior thread, along with my comments/interpretation.  Attendees--please correct me where I screw up, or fill in anything I miss.  My comments are in red.

Glenn R.
________________________________

Originally Posted By sully HERE:
TACTICAL CARBINE
(INSTRUCTIONAL OUTLINE)
CLASSROOM:

1. Nomenclature and Functions.

2. Sights and Sight Picture.

3. Basic Maintenance and Advanced Maintenance.
Field stripping, bolt disassembly, extractor springs/D-rings, gas ring replacement

4. Basic Ballistic Issues (Internal, External, Terminal, BZO Issues
line-of-sight/line-of-bore emphasized

5. Fitting and Uses of the Three-Point Tactical Sling.
         Backpack Carry
         Suitcase Carry
         Tactical Carry: Low Muzzle Frontal
         High Muzzle Frontal
         Patrol carry
         Behind the Backup Weapon
         Left-hand & Right-hand Fitting
         Proper Fitting (tension)
specific advantages & disadvantages of each.  Included use of 3-point from weak shoulder, which was good info for me

5A.  Uses of two-point slings
Uses: Military Style Support (Hasty Sling)
Over Weakside Shoulder (Muzzle Down and Why)
Military & African carry included how to present the rifle from each carry
2pt transitions
not emphasized in class because I was the only one only 2 people had a two point sling

5B.  One point slings not emphasized because nobody used one

6. Explanation of Loading/Unloading, and Jam Clearing
jam clearing came later on day two, but was the same as phase 1/phase 2 pistol malfunctions.  Military SPORTS method discussed as not fixing some types of jams and taking too long.  Phase 2 rifle clearing includes sticking your finger up the mag well after the bolt is locked back to release trapped double-feed rounds; otherwise identical to pistol methodology.

Backup Weapon Transition
practiced live-fire in a 30-round exercise.  Fire one rifle round, draw & fire one pistol round.  Repeat until your rifle's 30-rd magazine is empty.  Particularly enjoyed by HBAR users

7. Principles of Marksmanship:
Stance Grip (finger outside of guard)
Low Ready High Ready
Presentation Mounting
Sighting Aiming
Trigger Control Follow Through
Recovery Breathing
finger outside trigger guard until intend to fire; safety on until ready to fire.  Mounting wasn't covered, or I was sleeping.  Breath control denigrated as a only good in a target-shooting environment and not practical in a gunfight.

8. Explanation of: Single Fire, Double Tap, Hammer Fire, Controlled Fire
Each one explained & performed, also included "zipper" technique

9. Explanation of Range Exercises.

10. Introduction to Commands of “Gun” and “Body Armor”.
Explanation of Drug and Body Armor Point of Aim.
"gun" = "it's time to shoot him now".  Body armor alternative aiming points were either the head or pelvis.  Sully seemed to favor the pelvis as a larger target that wasn't as mobile.

RANGE

Sling the Weapon.

Explanation of Shooting Stances.

Practice of Loading and Unloading.

Zero: “From Low Ready” )
(safety on, safety off/presentation, single fire)
3yd
7yd, 15yd, 25yd.

Santose 50-yd zero was encouraged; discussion of exterior ballistics, A1/A2 sights, etc.

5. Reloading / Malfunctions: 7 & 15yds
(gun & bodyarmor commands)
Double Tap until malfunction then
transition to backup weapon.
Clear malfunction from cover.
Our shooting exercises were different, but the instructional content was similar.
Team Reloads & Malfunctions

6. Firing Positions: 25yds 12 positions
Hi-Lo Kneel Hi-Lo Sitting
Seated Rice Patty Prone
Prone 3 types Cooper Rollover
Roll up/Supine SBU
Great training in unconventional shooting positions.

Standing: squared to target, elbows tucked, body not bladed; legs slightly flexed, upper body weight forward for recoil absorption without compromising shooting position.  Taught using one-handed shooting evaluation, i.e. high elbow w/2 hands, then just strong hand; compare/contrast with tucked elbow 2 hands, then 1 hand.

Conventional Prone:  more squared to target; bringing strong-side leg up so foot is tucked into weak knee to raise diaphragm off ground to reduce/eliminate effects of breathing on rifle

Cooper roll-over:  Laying on side, on top of strong side arm, to get rifle as close to ground as possible.  Example of use would be shooting under vehicles.  Advanced application for use of vehicle tires as cover (rifle braced against fetus-position knees:  DON'T SHOOT YOUR FEET), with rifle pointed "downwards" instead of at 90-degrees to chest.

SBU:  prone but with rifle's ejection port facing up.  Alternative for different builds or different situational needs.


50, 75, 100yds (10rds) Choice of Positions
(2 minimum)

7. Movement Shooting: Forward Slow/Med/Fast
15yds Forward ATF, Groucho, SAS
Step/drag, then Groucho, then SAS.  SAS involved walking normally, but going into "baby steps" when shooting needed, then returning to normal walk.  Sully made it look easy, but I'm going to need to practice that one.  Looks promising.

Rearward
reverse Groucho

Sideways with torso sideways, Sideways with torso facing
Torso facing = step/drag.
Torso sideways had a few choices:
RH shooter moving right = bladed to target, engage normally.
RH shooter moving left = switch to weak shoulder, or use strong shoulder & rotate torso if possible; if cannot rotate far enough, use the SBU-type rifle position to obtain about 20 degrees more rotation.  Good example of use of body mechanics but my accuracy sucked--I'll have to practice that one before it's a useful tool for me.

Pivots & Turns: 5yds Turns ¼ & ½ Left/Right & Moving Turns
Always step forward to prevent stumbling; never step backwards.

Multiple Threats: Movement shooting 2-3 targets
(slow/med/fast)
This wasn't covered as a separate item

10. Distance: Steel Silhouettes at 100-300yds if the range permits.
Informal plinking at steel, including using Dave's .458  

Extra if time and range permits:
2-man tactics, 2-4 man building clearing, Fighting around vehicles,
Low Light Tactics and Applications, CQB.
not really covered



One of the best things about the class was being able to pick Sully's brains during the breaks.  He was really willing to answer questions & give further information or examples on whatever was brought to him.  We also got his opinion on the best lowers available, AR part sources, etc.

This class was a bargain at $150 and I intend to take more classes from Defensive Edge.

Thanks, Sully, for an outstanding class.  I'm ready for Carbine 3  

Attendees, please jump in to fix what I screwed up!

Glenn R.

Quoted: So Kill you got pics?

Yeah I just got them finally.  I have to download the on another machine and email them to myself.  Had to reduce the file sizes.  What is your email addy, I will forward to you, FMD, and anyone else who wants them.......just drop me a line with a valid email addy.  Glenn you want these?

Glenn, looks about right.  Although, I seem to remember some discussion about engaging multiple targets.  We didn't fire it, which means I no longer remember!

Don't feel too bad Glenn, I was using a 2 point sling as well.  Didn't seem to effect your marksmanship though ( OMG, a cop that can shoot!  What's the world coming too? )

I think everybody should have the set of pics from my camera.......

Quoted: I think everybody should have the set of pics from my camera.......

yep thnx kill much apreciated

Folks... Now get ready for the fun!

The Alumni classes!

You will polish every item learned and then learn a bunch more. The only requirement for the Alumni classes is that you have attended the " 1 " class in that weapon.

BulletCatchR, I sent pics to the addy you IM'd, it bounced......

Looks like this class was a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to the next one.

Av.

Quoted: Looks like this class was a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to the next one. Av.

Keep watchin this place than cuz the next one is in planning stages.

Hate to resurrect this from the dead, but I'm desperately trying to find my hat  .  It's a black Seattle Sombrero by OR, and I haven't seen it since the class.

Anybody come across it in their gearbag?

I don't recall you wearing any type of hat during the class.  Oh wait, you had a ball cap.  Haven't seen your boonie hat though.

Quoted: I don't recall you wearing any type of hat during the class.  Oh wait, you had a ball cap.  Haven't seen your boonie hat though.

I'd brought the boonie for the rain...should have brought a leash, or tied a string around my finger  

Talked to Stan about it, yet?

I don't recognize the hat as anything I've seen before, so I'm guessing neither Carrie or I found it .

ETA:

Quoted: I think everybody should have the set of pics from my camera.......

I din't.  Can I get someone to forward them to me?

No sombrero, sorry.I policed up the AO after the class and it was pretty clean.I found a bic lighter and someones phone cord weapon retention and that's about it.

I need to get a set of mrKill's photos too,I haven't seen them yet,or if FMD gets them and hosts that will be cool.


Bulletcatchr

Quoted: Talked to Stan about it, yet? I don't recognize the hat as anything I've seen before, so I'm guessing neither Carrie or I found it . ETA: Quoted: I think everybody should have the set of pics from my camera....... I din't.  Can I get someone to forward them to me?

I can let me check my email

Never mind found a hotmail addy for ya BC. It's on the way to you and FMD

Quoted: No sombrero, sorry.I policed up the AO after the class and it was pretty clean.I found a bic lighter and someones phone cord weapon retention and that's about it.

Thanks for checking!

Got the pics, and will put them together with the rest, and put them up in HTM.

Pics are IN

TNX!!

IM out to GlennR

BuletcatchR

Quick question, Real names (first only), or arfcom "handles" preferred?

Quoted: Quick question, Real names (first only), or arfcom "handles" preferred?

Handle, most people know my first name but I prefer the handle.

Either or for me, I know who you're talking about.    I tend to use real names in this forum, and screen names in "outside" forums.  Plus, dependig on how long your SN is, I sometime use real initial.  How's that for an answer K?

W, I think I get it - F



I'm putting it all together now, and just using arfcom tags.

Now that I got all the pics together, I glomed Glenn's commentary above (gave credit too ), added my own, and posted it HERE.

PLEASE take a look, IM me with your own commentary ASAP, and when finished, I'll post the link over in the DE forum in the industry section.

Thanks!

ETA:  IF YOU ATTENDED THE CLASS, CLICK HERE and IM ME WITH ANY SUGGESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE FOR THE PAGE.

(just in case you missed the link in the first paragraph).

Quoted: Now that I got all the pics together, I glomed Glenn's commentary above (gave credit too ), added my own, and posted it HERE. PLEASE take a look, IM me with your own commentary ASAP, and when finished, I'll post the link over in the DE forum in the industry section. Thanks! ETA:  IF YOU ATTENDED THE CLASS, CLICK HERE and IM ME WITH ANY SUGGESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE FOR THE PAGE. (just in case you missed the link in the first paragraph).

FMD I found the pic of QuinlanV right before he dropped the M1A if you want it.

Sent, there are 4 of them. let me know if you don't get them gmail was acting up on me I don't know if it sent or not.