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Posted: 10/16/2021 11:56:55 AM EDT
[#1]
DPMS are making AK's now? I guess I've not been keeping up to date.
I have several Aresenal SGL-21s, and 3 PSA AK's. I use the PSAs more as beater guns, kind of. I do love my Arsenals. |
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Posted: 10/16/2021 12:05:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: DPMS are making AK's now? I guess I've not been keeping up to date. I have several Aresenal SGL-21s, and 3 PSA AK's. I use the PSAs more as beater guns, kind of. I do love my Arsenals. It looks like the PSA GF3 and DPMS Anvil are the same rifle? Sure, Arsenal guns are nice. But I have slightly less than 0 interest in paying current prices. |
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Posted: 10/16/2021 1:05:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It looks like the PSA GF3 and DPMS Anvil are the same rifle? Sure, Arsenal guns are nice. But I have slightly less than 0 interest in paying current prices. The best AK for the money right now is the zastava m70. Not US made or traditional akm style but for what it cost I don't think you can beat it. Dpms is the GF3 pretty much and PSA was probably smart to use dpms for the lower budget AKs. Once they get it 100% figured out it will help them with branding down the road. At least that's how I look at it. |
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Posted: 10/16/2021 1:08:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The best AK for the money right now is the zastava m70. Problem here is I don't think Zenitco rails will fit. |
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Posted: 10/16/2021 1:29:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Problem here is I don't think Zenitco rails will fit. Reading comprehension apologies. I'd probably still go with a nice import or at least the PSA FN barreled options but I'm also in the camp that 1800 AKs aren't really that enticing. I'd rather just spend $600 on a psa blem for blasting if that is what you plan on doing. |
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Posted: 10/16/2021 1:47:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Reading comprehension apologies. I'd probably still go with a nice import or at least the PSA FN barreled options but I'm also in the camp that 1800 AKs aren't really that enticing. I'd rather just spend $600 on a psa blem for blasting if that is what you plan on doing. Yeah no I have no desire to buy a Meridian Volk or a milled Arsenal or etc. Kinda leaning towards the PSA 103 without the trigger or furniture. I could then install an ALG. And if I'm going to just replace the furniture I might as well buy a gun without any. Plus an FN chrome hammer forged barrel is a pretty tempting item. |
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Posted: 10/16/2021 2:23:22 PM EDT
[#7]
Get a WBP fox. If Brandon didn’t help jack the price of 7.62x39mm I’d get one.
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Posted: 10/16/2021 2:39:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get a WBP fox. If Brandon didn’t help jack the price of 7.62x39mm I’d get one. $1300+ currently. No thanks. |
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Posted: 10/16/2021 4:57:56 PM EDT
[#9]
WASR-10
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Posted: 10/16/2021 6:42:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $1300+ currently. No thanks. Pretty much any import is pushing $1k plus. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:09:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $1300+ currently. No thanks. Then you are just SOOL on getting an imported AK. Even the previous mentioned M70 is +$1k now. If you are in the sub $1k price range, I think DPSM Anvil is going to be your only option. $750 - 100% new - basically a PSA gun. Looks good. Other option would be to search the local pawn shops for a Romanian WASR that someone still thinks is only worth $500. DPMS ANVIL  You mentioned you want the Zentico stuff... bad news Comrade. Outfit your AK with the hand guards, pistol grip, top cover, muzzle brake and folding stock - you are well over $1,500 in accessories. If you are just looking for modern mounting furniture - Midwest Industry, Texas Weapon Industry, etc makes stuff. Hell, even the Russians use the TWI Top Cover. Larry Vickers - Russian Alpha AK - 7.62x39 |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 3:55:49 AM EDT
[#12]
I think you should avoid anything USA made. They’re all flawed copies of import rifles with rather poor QC. PSA especially is infamous (and the DPMS gun is a rebranded PSA). 7.62x39mm ammunition will only get harder to find. I think you’d be well served with a foreign rifle in 5.56x45mm.
The most available option is Zastava. However, their receiver materials aren’t the best and tend to have issues as round count begins to climb. ARegularguy has noted this on multiple occasions. Your best bet is to patiently wait on a good deal on an Arsenal Bulgaria SLR-106F or WBP Beryl. This will take some time, but they do occasionally appear at non-ass rape prices. You may even find a Saiga if you’re lucky. You could also go with the Arsenal SAM-5, which is heavy but extremely well made if its 7.62x39 SAM-7 stablemate is any indication. These can be used with the WBP green magazines, Russian AK-101 magazines or Bulgarian “Circle 10” mags. Avoid ProMag like the plague, because it is. If you must have 7.62x39mm, A Polish or Romanian rifle would probably be the best option. You’ll want to replace the 922(r) compliant USA made trigger group with a surplus one. Make sure to avoid Magpul AK Pmags. Their AR mags are good but the AK ones are not. Just run it with surplus steel mags. The most available 7.62x39 import is the Romanian WASR 10. The aforementioned SAM-7 is also an option but it’s THICC. If you want a short barreled 7.62x39, you could get the M+M M10P from Romania. This is what was formerly known as a “Draco,” when Century imported it. Century now makes their own “Draco” on the US, and it’s horrible. If someone tries to sell you a “Draco,” make absolutely sure it’s an import before you spend money. When buying an import, take care to verify that it’s actually an imported gun and not a parts kit build assembled in the USA. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 11:05:43 AM EDT
[#13]
No recommendations for the Century VSKA?
Interesting how the market, as a whole, has changed. The WASR, with mag wells augered out and left in the white and without mag well dimples, are acceptable now and worth a Grand. These used to be bought cheap and sawed in half to get donor parts for builds. I'm not new to AKs but; as mentioned above, have been away from the platform. When last I messed with this stuff parts kits with genuine barrels were cheap. Tapco G2 trigger parts and gas pistons were a mainstay and stamped receivers from Armory USA later Elk River Tool & Die were easy to find and worthy of the purchase. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:00:13 PM EDT
[#14]
American manufactured? Hot garbage...
American imported/parts kits? GTG The VSKA in particular isn't a shit sandwich...it's a room temperature diarrhea sandwich. There's YT video I won't waste my time looking up where Century shill extraordinaire James Yeager and Tim from MAC did a live streamed beatdown event on one and it literally lost headspace before your very eyes. The whole purpose of the event was to prove that they weren't garbage and was an overwhelming, real time, fall flat on the face, complete fail. If you plan on using (not just owning) an AK for it's intended purpose, ComBloc is the only way to go. For first timers I'd recommend a WASR-10 or Zastava M70 (although they've been having some quality control issues themselves). If you're looking to LARP around on Insta or Reddit and install high end accessories (ZenitCo, etc.) on guns that will see a couple of mag dumps a year, then yeah a VSKA or C39V2 will fit the bill "perfectly". The days of quality constructed, inexpensive AKs has LONG passed; Arsenals are going for almost double what they did just a few years ago and Russian and Chinese AKs are well into the $2-3K+ range depending on the model, etc. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:48:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Seems like you’re set on 7.62x39 so get a WASR, replace the US trigger with a surplus one and start accumulating your Zenitco accessories. They’ve been finishing the magwells properly since ~late 2000s and the quality is far better than anything made in the US.
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Posted: 10/17/2021 1:04:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...get a WASR. I'm not paying close to a Grand for a WASR. If that is the only "affordable" option in the AK market then I guess I'm out. At least until prices come down (wishful thinking) or the US companies get things figured out. 7.62x39 is still the only common choice unless I'm missing something. Russian ammo might be gone but other countries produce it. There are a number of US companies too. Starline makes brass so reloading is an option if push comes to shove. 5.45 is an interesting little cartridge but Hornady is it for US ammo. Who makes it otherwise? Bulgaria and Russia. 5.56 makes sense to a certain degree but those magazines aren't all that common. The Arsenal mags are out there but they are pricey. Same with East German/Romanian type. That leaves Pro Mag? Something that should be asked; how many people posting have experience with the US stuff? Any personal bad experiences? |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 1:27:33 PM EDT
[#17]
I remember back in the day when a WASR was called "a shit sandwich" and people hated them. I had one and had no issues with it. Now they seem to be the gold standard when people mention an import AK. I sold my WASR 7-10 years ago and didn't think I would get back into the AK world. If it wasn't for PSA and their blem GF3 model, I wouldn't have. I can't find a blemish on the rifle. I really like this rifle but I do wish that it had the FN barrel just to have chrome lining. Not that big of a deal, I doubt I ever shoot it out.
I think the best of the best American made affordable rifles is PSA and DPMS. The DPMS Anvil is nothing more than a PSA GF3 that is branded under DPMS. I read that it wont get some of the other stuff that PSA will offer. Like the MagPul furniture. My opinion, you can't go wrong with a PSA. It also has a lifetime transferable warranty. Most people turn their nose up to an American made AK. I would too on some of them. PSA in my opinion is good to go. If SHTF I would grab my GF3 without hesitation. I will admit that my go to rifles are as follows, Tavor Sar, x95, Steyr Aug, PSA AR-15 and a GF3. The only reason the GF3 isn't higher on my list, I don't have as much ammo for it as I do my other rifles. I am working to correct that now. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 1:45:02 PM EDT
[#18]
OP you're admittedly dated in your AK experience/knowledge; do your research, there's voluminous, first hand information that US made AKs, including the PSAs, are garbage. If you heard, repeatedly, that Brand X car was garbage, from people with first hand information and they posted similar complaints/observations, would you buy it anyway just to see if you could get lucky?
If you don't want to pay $1K+ for a WASR-10 or Zastava M70 then I guess you are out. The day before Sandy Hook you could grab a WASR for under $400...now there's NO such thing as a quality cheap AK anymore. Period. Pro Mag? Not sure if serious...there's plenty of surplus ComBloc metal magazines available for VERY reasonable prices, especially if you don't mind cleaning off the cosmoline for NIB/W ones or Gawd forbid a lil rust. I agree with the Magpul observation too; they're great for ARs, not so much for AKs, at least with any consistency. Ammo prices are stabilizing, and I'd get a 7,62x39 AK before a 5,45 or 5,56 (I have all three). Buy once, cry once as they say, and that is more applicable to AKs now more than ever. The VSKA and C39V2s sure look pretty to someone that doesn't know any better, but Century is betting that you won't do your research, and their desperation is even more apparent know having their newest shill, Clint Smith/Thunder Ranch, throw his "weight" behind them. Doesn't change the fact that they're junk. Battlefield Vegas rents out AKs (among others) and has more experience putting rounds through them than probably anyone else in the US and that experience has shown that milled AKs far outlast stamped ones, and while you may not be looking to shoot even a fraction of the rounds they do, there's no discounting their experience. Milled AKs are astronomical right now, but a gently used SLR-107 would be my top choice and a step above a WASR or Zastava ZPAP. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 1:53:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you heard, repeatedly, that Brand X car was garbage, from people with first hand information and they posted similar complaints/observations... Some people hate Ford. Some hate Chevy. Others don't like furrin cars like them new fangled Tiyoters. See post directly above your last. A favorable response regarding PSA. Granted he's an Olympic Arms Fan....  So what about the KUSA guns? Those haven't been out long. Feedback seems to be good although only time will tell. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 2:10:30 PM EDT
[#20]
X39 is the way to go if you only have 1. PSA is setting up a plant and the Russian stuff is still coming in for a year or two. Plenty of x39 options and it's still the cheapest mid range rifle cartridge.
Problem with PSA is the decent ones will cost about what the budget imports go for. The zastava is the best AK for the money right now and they seem to of solved the teething issues from when they first opened up the US base and ditched century. I don't know if zentico makes yugo pattern furniture but you can definitely pimp out the yugo pattern now with tons of aftermarket stuff. Watch ak47 operator union m70 torture test. PSA is at least forged bolts and trunions unlike other stuff from the us but they haven't gotten it 100% yet. The dpms or gf3 blem with no furniture is the cheapest option that should work but the value won't double like any import most likely will in 10 years. PSA makes a Romanian kit now with dimples I think for under a grand. Edit- I just got back into AKs after the days of old but it's hard to get a cheap good AK and easy to get a cheap AR that works (totally flipped around from years ago) |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 2:15:46 PM EDT
[#21]
The "lifetime warranty" that PSA offers on their steaming pile of dog shit AKs is hardly a selling point.
There's NUMEROUS people that have had to use said warranty to fix their garbage, and not just once. There's example, after example, after example of people having to send back their AKs, and the time, expense, and aggravation of doing so, only to have to (re) send them back. A lot of times they sell them off at the EE, LGS, GB, etc. to some other uninformed AK dilettante. I'll admit that PSA ARs are solid for reliable budget builds. They continue to beta test of the AK community and those that know better, avoid them at all possible cost. I will give credit to Josiah at PSA Customer Service. He's been extremely helpful in getting problems sorted out for folks but I guess PSA decided as a company that it was more trouble then it was worth and pulled out as a supporting vendor of the largest AK-specific forum out there. THAT should tell you all you need to know about PSA AKs. There's simply no affordable way to compete with Euro/ComBloc AK factories that are decades old and have amortized their tooling costs to fractions of a penny; if an American company wants to do that on an even playing field of quality the resulting product/AK would be cost prohibitive, and the short cuts they're taking clearly don't work... |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 2:35:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: I remember back in the day when a WASR was called "a shit sandwich" and people hated them. I had one and had no issues with it. Now they seem to be the gold standard when people mention an import AK. Quoted: PSA is at least forged bolts and trunions unlike other stuff from the us but they haven't gotten it 100% yet. Edit- I just got back into AKs after the days of old but it's hard to get a cheap good AK and easy to get a cheap AR that works (totally flipped around from years ago) Sounds like we're in the same boat. Getting back into AKs after a hiatus. Yep. Years previous you had Colt and that was about it. Bushmaster aka Quality Parts Company was a viable option if a Colt was too expensive for a particular budget. Olympic and Essential Arms (along with Sendra and Nesard) were around too but these were usually kits and/or not taken too seriously. Anyway, I note PSA sells trunnions and bolts made by Toolcraft. I assume these are parts used in complete PSA builds. I also assume these are the same parts used by Riley. Maybe KUSA although the KUSA bolt is machined from billet according to the website. Not that Toolcraft is anything we'd associate with AK stuff. But they've been in the bolt business for years and should know generally what they're doing. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 3:06:43 PM EDT
[#23]
There's a BIG difference between being a Ford versus Chevy guy, etc. versus purposefully buying known garbage. Every manufacturer (car or gun!) has their issues but the topic at hand is US built AKs...
Glad to see you mention the KUSA KR-103 which is technically US built. Initial indications seem to point to them being solid. The being said you now also have the DPMS Anvil...which sounds like a rebranded PSA GF3. PSA also recently announced their Soviet Arms which are going to be Russian/Tula parts kits with an American receiver. If anyone can fuck up that potential AK wetdream, it's PSA. Their clearly demonstrated history of beta testing on their end users is reason enough to avoid them like the plague. Renaming/branding/badging is usually done for a reason and more often than not it's not for a good one(s). I hate to see people waste money. For every oh shit there's an atta boy, and every manufacturer has their share of both, but I'd save my pennies for a SAM, SLR, etc. before going down the PSA road and hoping I end up with a decent rifle that I can bet my life on and not garbage... |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 3:07:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like we're in the same boat. Getting back into AKs after a hiatus. Yep. Years previous you had Colt and that was about it. Bushmaster aka Quality Parts Company was a viable option if a Colt was too expensive for a particular budget. Olympic and Essential Arms (along with Sendra and Nesard) were around too but these were usually kits and/or not taken too seriously. Anyway, I note PSA sells trunnions and bolts made by Toolcraft. I assume these are parts used in complete PSA builds. I also assume these are the same parts used by Riley. Maybe KUSA although the KUSA bolt is machined from billet according to the website. Not that Toolcraft is anything we'd associate with AK stuff. But they've been in the bolt business for years and should know generally what they're doing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I remember back in the day when a WASR was called "a shit sandwich" and people hated them. I had one and had no issues with it. Now they seem to be the gold standard when people mention an import AK. Quoted: PSA is at least forged bolts and trunions unlike other stuff from the us but they haven't gotten it 100% yet. Edit- I just got back into AKs after the days of old but it's hard to get a cheap good AK and easy to get a cheap AR that works (totally flipped around from years ago) Sounds like we're in the same boat. Getting back into AKs after a hiatus. Yep. Years previous you had Colt and that was about it. Bushmaster aka Quality Parts Company was a viable option if a Colt was too expensive for a particular budget. Olympic and Essential Arms (along with Sendra and Nesard) were around too but these were usually kits and/or not taken too seriously. Anyway, I note PSA sells trunnions and bolts made by Toolcraft. I assume these are parts used in complete PSA builds. I also assume these are the same parts used by Riley. Maybe KUSA although the KUSA bolt is machined from billet according to the website. Not that Toolcraft is anything we'd associate with AK stuff. But they've been in the bolt business for years and should know generally what they're doing. PSA is now using Tool Craft in some of their rifles. I’m not sure if it is across the board yet. I wouldn’t hesitate for I buy a PSA or DPMS AK. Battlefield Las Vegas has a couple in their lineup and it’s full auto too. If I remember correctly the nitride barrel started key holing at 17k rounds. That’s a constant full auto and not the kind of shooting we would be doing. I don’t think they’ve had any major problems. It’s like this and this is my way of thinking. If I have to use this rifle in a self defense shooting, I don’t think the person is going to ask me, “was that a PSA, DPMS or a WASR?” I’m not a collector. I left that world. ARs used to be the world of snobs. Funny that AKs are now. Get a rifle that you can afford and enjoy it. Shoot the snot out of it. Once I get ammo and can find an open range that’s what I plan to do and I won’t be babying this rifle either. Now for mags. MagPul gen2 fits the GF3. SHK mags do too. I have some AC Unity mags coming that I bought to test out. I also have some surplus mags that I am picking up. I’m just buying whatever mags I can find and not to worried about it. Again this isn’t my main rifle. One of my bullpup rifles are. I have a spinal cord involved injury that makes shooting most rifles difficult for long periods of time. Disk are pressing against the spinal cord, neck down. I found bullpup rifles do not act the same way as a regular style rifle. I can hold those and shoot them for longer periods of time. If you go PSA or some other way enjoy the rifle. Shoot the snot out of it. I imagine most of us will never put 50k rounds through our rifles. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 4:00:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like we're in the same boat. Getting back into AKs after a hiatus. Yep. Years previous you had Colt and that was about it. Bushmaster aka Quality Parts Company was a viable option if a Colt was too expensive for a particular budget. Olympic and Essential Arms (along with Sendra and Nesard) were around too but these were usually kits and/or not taken too seriously. Anyway, I note PSA sells trunnions and bolts made by Toolcraft. I assume these are parts used in complete PSA builds. I also assume these are the same parts used by Riley. Maybe KUSA although the KUSA bolt is machined from billet according to the website. Not that Toolcraft is anything we'd associate with AK stuff. But they've been in the bolt business for years and should know generally what they're doing. Yes same boat. I did a lot of research and found out it's not easy to get a decent AK now. I actually decided that I'd not get back into AKs after the price point of a getting anything decent but cases of x39 were $300ish so I figured it be worth it. The Biden ammo ban hit as soon as I got one  but I think things are settling down now. I recommended a new rifle buyer to go with PSA a few years ago and vouched for them. He changed his mind and went AK instead of an AR because he thought 556 wasn't as good as x39 for whatever reason. The PSAK ended up being riddled with problems and he eventually got a full refund and bought a sam7 for around 1200 at the time. He doesn't trust PSA and I can't talk him into the fact they make good ARs. Plenty of good PSAKs now though even though they aren't 100% rock solid. Totally flipped flop world with prices and reliability between AK and ARs no doubt. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 7:35:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Glad to see you mention the KUSA KR-103 which is technically US built. Initial indications seem to point to them being solid. Couple things I note, just from looking at pics, is that the KR103 has a more correct dust cover than the PSA version. Also the PSA (and Riley from what I can see) lack the trigger hump in the bottom of the receiver. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 11:14:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Couple things I note, just from looking at pics, is that the KR103 has a more correct dust cover than the PSA version. Also the PSA (and Riley from what I can see) lack the trigger bump in the bottom of the receiver. The KUSA 103s seem nice but they are expensive also. MAC has a video comparing the PSA version to the KUSA. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 11:33:31 PM EDT
[#28]
The WASR is still hot garbage. It's a durable comblock rifle and thats it.
The only US built AK I'd trust right now is the newest gen PSA. I've seen great results with a GF3 a buddy has. Anything built by century is a shit show. Not worth even considering. KUSA doesn't blow my skirt up, especially with the PSA offering. KUSA has had plenty of issues too and we're basically vaporware for years. If you really want an inexpensive AK right now you'll have to build a Galil kit. Probably the cheapest way to have an AK right now. $800ish will get you an ATI barreled receiver and a parts kit. Mags are $15-16 a pop. Or buy a PSA. This is coming from a Russian (Saiga and Vepr) and Bulgarian (not arsenal commercial junk) snob. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 11:34:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The KUSA 103s seem nice but they are expensive also. MAC has a video comparing the PSA version to the KUSA. Agreed. Not sure why the OP is willing to drop $1,200 $1,300 on a KUSA, but won't spend $1k on a WASR or save another $300 for an Arsenal or Beryl. He wants to spend $1,500 to $2,000 on accessories but is queasy over import prices. |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 12:13:29 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No recommendations for the Century VSKA? Interesting how the market, as a whole, has changed. The WASR, with mag wells augered out and left in the white and without mag well dimples, are acceptable now and worth a Grand. These used to be bought cheap and sawed in half to get donor parts for builds. I'm not new to AKs but; as mentioned above, have been away from the platform. When last I messed with this stuff parts kits with genuine barrels were cheap. Tapco G2 trigger parts and gas pistons were a mainstay and stamped receivers from Armory USA later Elk River Tool & Die were easy to find and worthy of the purchase. The dimples are cosmetic (the earlier Saigas didn’t have them either). The newer WASRs have metal plates welded inside the magwell for reinforcement. The Palmetto you’re looking at is the same price as a WASR with furniture and trigger on sale here (Atlantic had them at the same price earlier this week). https://lockedloaded.com/product/wasr-10-v2-7.62x39-poly-301 |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 1:44:49 AM EDT
[#31]
Toolcraft does not know what they’re doing in my experience. I had one of their AR bolts break at around 3000 rounds, and I’m hardly alone in this. The YouTuber Aregularguy broke two and he has a fairly substantial video on the topic. Toolcraft bolts are used in PSA’s AR-15 rifles and they’re a constant source of issues. If they can’t even make AR bolts properly, there’s no way in hell they’ll make good AK bolts.
Regarding 5.56 AK magazine solutions, the WBP green translucent mags are currently being imported and are regularly stocked by Atlantic Firearms. The Circle 10 mags are also being imported for the SAM-5, but they’re harder to find. Melvin Johnson mentioned wanting to add Zenitco furniture to his AK. Those products are very spendy, but of good quality. Given that you’re already planning to build an expensive system, you might as well get a good base rifle. The WASR-10 is your best bet in 7.62x39, and they do occasionally show up for around $850. You will want to replace the RAK-1 trigger it comes with. It and the other USA made or modified trigger groups Century has used are the main source of WASR-related trouble, causing occasional trigger slap and bolt carrier tail damage. Surplus ones are like $20 if I remember correctly. Having used several WASRs myself, I can say with confidence that it’s worth it. The WASR is a mostly correct AKM that’s made on a proper military production line, and the fit and finish has improved substantially since the early double-aughts. As a side note, look into the Federal Fusion bullet if you opt for 7.62x39. It’s quite a performer. Make sure not to file down the Zenitco lower handguard to get it on your rifle. They’re meant to be beaten into place with a mallet! Strange as this may seem, they make them tight from the factory and the mallet beating gives them a secure fit to their host rifle. The AK handguard retention system is quite arcane so they’re using unorthodox methods. |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 6:07:36 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Agreed. Not sure why the OP is willing to drop $1,200 $1,300 on a KUSA, but won't spend $1k on a WASR or save another $300 for an Arsenal or Beryl. He wants to spend $1,500 to $2,000 on accessories but is queasy over import prices. Quoted: The dimples are cosmetic (the earlier Saigas didn’t have them either). The newer WASRs have metal plates welded inside the magwell for reinforcement. The Palmetto you’re looking at is the same price as a WASR with furniture and trigger on sale here (Atlantic had them at the same price earlier this week). https://lockedloaded.com/product/wasr-10-v2-7.62x39-poly-301 Quoted: Toolcraft does not know what they’re doing in my experience. I had one of their AR bolts break at around 3000 rounds, and I’m hardly alone in this. The YouTuber Aregularguy broke two and he has a fairly substantial video on the topic. Toolcraft bolts are used in PSA’s AR-15 rifles and they’re a constant source of issues. If they can’t even make AR bolts properly, there’s no way in hell they’ll make good AK bolts. Regarding 5.56 AK magazine solutions, the WBP green translucent mags are currently being imported and are regularly stocked by Atlantic Firearms. The Circle 10 mags are also being imported for the SAM-5, but they’re harder to find. Melvin Johnson mentioned wanting to add Zenitco furniture to his AK. Those products are very spendy, but of good quality. Given that you’re already planning to build an expensive system, you might as well get a good base rifle. The WASR-10 is your best bet in 7.62x39, and they do occasionally show up for around $850. You will want to replace the RAK-1 trigger it comes with. It and the other USA made or modified trigger groups Century has used are the main source of WASR-related trouble, causing occasional trigger slap and bolt carrier tail damage. Surplus ones are like $20 if I remember correctly. Having used several WASRs myself, I can say with confidence that it’s worth it. The WASR is a mostly correct AKM that’s made on a proper military production line, and the fit and finish has improved substantially since the early double-aughts. As a side note, look into the Federal Fusion bullet if you opt for 7.62x39. It’s quite a performer. Make sure not to file down the Zenitco lower handguard to get it on your rifle. They’re meant to be beaten into place with a mallet! Strange as this may seem, they make them tight from the factory and the mallet beating gives them a secure fit to their host rifle. The AK handguard retention system is quite arcane so they’re using unorthodox methods. Guys, You can recommend them all you want but I'm not buying a WASR....  The PSA 103 is a bit over $800 without furniture or trigger. That's probably the smart way to do it since I'll add my own furniture. I'd probably go with the ALG trigger. The AKM style PSAs are also available sans furniture. I can probably get one of the nitride barrel versions for about $600. I think there's a couple Riley 103s on gunbroker.com now for $900. In this case I could probably sell the triangle stock and other stuff to slightly help pay for some Zenitco stuff. |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 8:50:25 AM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 10/18/2021 10:34:18 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Toolcraft does not know what they’re doing in my experience. I had one of their AR bolts break at around 3000 rounds, and I’m hardly alone in this. The YouTuber Aregularguy broke two and he has a fairly substantial video on the topic. Toolcraft bolts are used in PSA’s AR-15 rifles and they’re a constant source of issues. If they can’t even make AR bolts properly, there’s no way in hell they’ll make good AK bolts. Regarding 5.56 AK magazine solutions, the WBP green translucent mags are currently being imported and are regularly stocked by Atlantic Firearms. The Circle 10 mags are also being imported for the SAM-5, but they’re harder to find. Melvin Johnson mentioned wanting to add Zenitco furniture to his AK. Those products are very spendy, but of good quality. Given that you’re already planning to build an expensive system, you might as well get a good base rifle. The WASR-10 is your best bet in 7.62x39, and they do occasionally show up for around $850. You will want to replace the RAK-1 trigger it comes with. It and the other USA made or modified trigger groups Century has used are the main source of WASR-related trouble, causing occasional trigger slap and bolt carrier tail damage. Surplus ones are like $20 if I remember correctly. Having used several WASRs myself, I can say with confidence that it’s worth it. The WASR is a mostly correct AKM that’s made on a proper military production line, and the fit and finish has improved substantially since the early double-aughts. As a side note, look into the Federal Fusion bullet if you opt for 7.62x39. It’s quite a performer. Make sure not to file down the Zenitco lower handguard to get it on your rifle. They’re meant to be beaten into place with a mallet! Strange as this may seem, they make them tight from the factory and the mallet beating gives them a secure fit to their host rifle. The AK handguard retention system is quite arcane so they’re using unorthodox methods. You have no clue what you are talking about. Toolcraft is the largest ar15 bcg maker in the world and oem for a significant portion of the industry. If their bcg didn’t work you would see failures in most major brands. ETA: They have also supplied BCG to the US Military. I’m sure they know what they are doing with a bcg... |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 11:21:47 AM EDT
[#35]
Not sure how you can say WASRs are reliable ComBlocs...and hot garbage in the same sentence...?
ANYWAY, there's NO question that I'd avoid any PSA made AK, full stop. Along those lines the DPMS Anvil may be recycled PSA crap so I'd likewise wait those out too. PSA beta testing (their AKs specifically) on their customers is well documented. I'm all about improving your product line, but there's clearly a difference. The KUSA KR-103 is promising and I'd more likely then not would give them a go, if for no other reason than curiosity as an AK enthusiast. Besides the WASRs, the Zastava M70 is the only readily available import right now it seems but has definitely had its share of growing pains. The VSKA and C39V2 are just dormant herpes... If you're looking to accessorize (and who isn't to some degree!) as others have suggested it'd be better to put your money in a solid gun first, and get the goodies added later. Same analogy as a car/truck/etc.; make sure if you're gonna start throwing money at it that whatever it is has good bones to begin with. Good luck! |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 12:16:36 PM EDT
[#36]
Toolcraft’s own website doesn’t say anything about military contracts. If they did supply any, it must have been a relatively small run of replacement parts or foreign military aid since the BCGs supplied with rifles were and are made in house by Colt and FN respectively. Toolcraft is the OEM for low end AR-15 manufacturers like PSA, and their bolts often break at low round counts.
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Posted: 10/18/2021 12:20:08 PM EDT
[#37]
The DPMS anvil is a PSA. They acquired DPMS.
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Posted: 10/18/2021 12:22:14 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Toolcraft’s own website doesn’t say anything about military contracts. If they did supply any, it must have been a relatively small run of replacement parts or foreign military aid since the BCGs supplied with rifles were and are made in house by Colt and FN respectively. Toolcraft is the OEM for low end AR-15 manufacturers like PSA, and their bolts often break at low round counts. Again, you are clueless. Toolcraft has had several US military contracts over the years. They OEM for all ranges of AR15/M16 makers from price point to very high end products. They produce about 60 percent of the BCG that are made. If they didn’t know what they were doing 60 percent of the BCG in the country would fail including very high end boutique manufacturers. |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 12:26:04 PM EDT
[#39]
When were these contracts and how many units did they deliver?
Which high end AR manufacturers do they supply? Where did you get that 60% number? |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 12:29:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: When were these contracts and how many units did they deliver? Which high end AR manufacturers do they supply? Where did you get that 60% number? They have done them over the years and it has been several contracts. Email them and ask them. I go there regularly and see what is on their machines, but I can’t disclose the names. The names are numerous and well known. I know their capacity and the capacity of the industry. Again, you are clueless |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 12:32:02 PM EDT
[#41]
You can’t disclose a single name but I am clueless!
 You could at least have said something about the military contracts. |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 12:33:32 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: You can’t disclose a single name but I am clueless! Yes, when you walk in the door you sign a non disclosure form and can be sued if you disclose. It happens at all manufacturers. And yes you are clueless  
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Posted: 10/18/2021 12:50:16 PM EDT
[#43]
I think we have different definitions of what constitutes a “high end” AR-15 manufacturer. The most expensive line I’ve seen with what looks like a Toolcraft BCG is Aero Precision. I can’t find any evidence of a higher-end manufacturer using them. There is no publically available list of who Toolcraft makes those products for, and what’s on the forums is largely speculation.
If you work for PSA, you’ll surely understand that those guns are made to be as cheap as possible. It’d be nonsensical for a manufacturer focused on high quality to use the same BCG. Looks like Toolcraft’s military contract consisted of them making gas keys and carriers, not bolts. Considering that the bolt is the part that breaks, the military contract says nothing about the quality of their complete BCG. |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 12:53:13 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: I think we have different definitions of what constitutes a “high end” AR-15 manufacturer. The most expensive line I’ve seen with what looks like a Toolcraft BCG is Aero Precision. I can’t find any evidence of a higher-end manufacturer using them. There is no publically available list of who Toolcraft makes those products for, and what’s on the forums is largely speculation. There is no publicly available information because they don’t disclose it. The only way you know is if the oem seller advertises it. Listen to yourself, you just said a company that has supplied the US military with BCGs doesn’t know how to make a bcg. You don’t know what you are taking about or how the industry works period |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 12:57:01 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: I think we have different definitions of what constitutes a “high end” AR-15 manufacturer. The most expensive line I’ve seen with what looks like a Toolcraft BCG is Aero Precision. I can’t find any evidence of a higher-end manufacturer using them. There is no publically available list of who Toolcraft makes those products for, and what’s on the forums is largely speculation. If you work for PSA, you’ll surely understand that those guns are made to be as cheap as possible. It’d be nonsensical for a manufacturer focused on high quality to use the same BCG. PSAs mission is to make guns affordable to the masses in order to spread freedom. They are not made as cheap as possible. They are a billion dollar a year company. They have the majority of the market for the AK and the AR. They make a lot of parts for other AK and AR manufacturers also, the industry works together and supports the different tiers. |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 12:58:00 PM EDT
[#46]
I actually did find some information about their contract with the military. They made gas keys and carriers, not bolts. The bolt itself is the part that broke on mine and several others’. Thus, the military contract says nothing about the quality of their complete BCG.
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Posted: 10/18/2021 12:59:21 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: I actually did find some information about their contract with the military. They made gas keys and carriers, not bolts. The bolt itself is the part that broke on mine and several others’. Thus, the military contract says nothing about the quality of their complete BCG. You won’t be convinced, I’m not going to waste anymore time with you. You know everything, got it. |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 1:01:36 PM EDT
[#48]
For an AR industry guy, you sure joined late.
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Posted: 10/18/2021 1:04:12 PM EDT
[#49]
Are you denying that the military contract only consisted of carriers and gas keys?
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Posted: 10/18/2021 1:04:58 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: For an AR industry guy, you sure joined late. I’ve been in the industry for about 25 years between doing this full time for the military working with 30/40 level echelon shops and in the civilian world at higher levels. |
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