AK Sponsor
Posted: 11/6/2025 1:55:17 PM EDT
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Hey yall, I've had a PSA AK103 GF3 variant for almost two years now. I had never really benched the rifle to test groups until today, outside of zeroing the iron sights and PA SLx 3x scope. The scope is mounted in an AK master mount as recommended and sold by AKOU. I have verified that the rifle does hold zero (50 yards per PA) when removed and reinstalled. The rifle has had approximately 5-600 rounds of both New Republic and Belom FMJ. The rifle seems to favor the Belom ammo. Today I benched the rifle at 100 yards to test New Republic, Belom, AAC steel case, and Sabre black tip, all running either 122-123gr. I found the rifle shot between 6-8 MOA, both with and without the cleaning rod installed. I did verify the scope and mount are secure and solid. For me this is unacceptable accuracy. I am looking to replace the rifle with either a WBP 100 series Jack or a PSA AK103 premium (FN barrel). The general price range being 1000-1200 bucks. Any input is appreciated! |
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Seems a little loose, but not too crazy. It’s not a precision rifle, it’s an AK. A lot of them are “minute of pie plate” at 100y. My first candidate would be a bad optic/mount. See how it does with irons. AKs are built by fetal alcohol syndrome Eastern Europe factory drones (probably drunk), to loose specifications, for rough use by illiterate peasant conscripts, demilled with extreme prejudice (by more Eastern European conscripts - also probably drunk), then re-assembled locally. It’s a miracle that they work at all. |
Not fly enough to be halal....
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My first thought was that the mount itself or optic was loose, but the optic screws were tight as well as the mount latch. My only other thoughts are possibly the 74 style muzzle brake messing with the barrel harmonics. I have now changed the stock handguard with a magpul, which did lock in tighter. The groups I ran today were shot on a fouled bore (ran 5 rounds after cleaning), then shot back to back in 5 round strings. This could have heated the barrel enough to cause added dispersion due to the heat. |
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Originally Posted By Georgian87: My first thought was that the mount itself or optic was loose, but the optic screws were tight as well as the mount latch. My only other thoughts are possibly the 74 style muzzle brake messing with the barrel harmonics. I have now changed the stock handguard with a magpul, which did lock in tighter. The groups I ran today were shot on a fouled bore (ran 5 rounds after cleaning), then shot back to back in 5 round strings. This could have heated the barrel enough to cause added dispersion due to the heat. Believe it or not a loose gas tube is a little better for accuracy. Too tight and it wants to deflect the barrel. You could even run the rifle without a gas tube to take it out of the equation, though I doubt many public ranges would approve |
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That AK master mount might be the issue. I too have a 3x PA on one and it gets about the same accuracy. This is also with a gf3 but I don't remember irons even being that bad. I'll have to put it on something else to confirm but I haven't shot it in a while just because of the accuracy and been meaning to switch up my optic setup on that gf3 just haven't gotten around to it. Maybe I'm wrong but after getting a an RS regulate I see why they are more pricey. |
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How does is shoot with just the irons? What do you mean “within AK spec”? If crummy, I would look at the crown, and maybe try different ammo as well. How is the trigger? I don’t need an upgraded trigger generally in any platform, but I have seen a huge difference when benching an AR with a gritty new mil spec trigger, as compared to a well worn in one or an ALG ACT. And how good of a shooter you are personally matters as well obviously… Don’t know about the mount or optic, so just throwing out other considerations. Did you use loctite on mounting screws? “Tight” is a relative thing sometimes. Eliminate variables….like taking the brake off entirely, to get a baseline on it. |
a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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Originally Posted By Georgian87: Hey yall, I've had a PSA AK103 GF3 variant for almost two years now. I had never really benched the rifle to test groups until today, outside of zeroing the iron sights and PA SLx 3x scope. The scope is mounted in an AK master mount as recommended and sold by AKOU. I have verified that the rifle does hold zero (50 yards per PA) when removed and reinstalled. The rifle has had approximately 5-600 rounds of both New Republic and Belom FMJ. The rifle seems to favor the Belom ammo. Today I benched the rifle at 100 yards to test New Republic, Belom, AAC steel case, and Sabre black tip, all running either 122-123gr. I found the rifle shot between 6-8 MOA, both with and without the cleaning rod installed. I did verify the scope and mount are secure and solid. For me this is unacceptable accuracy. I am looking to replace the rifle with either a WBP 100 series Jack or a PSA AK103 premium (FN barrel). The general price range being 1000-1200 bucks. Any input is appreciated! Personal opinion and I know this is out of your price range, but find a good converted Saiga with a magazine dimple in the receiver, an Arsenal SLR107/F/FR and or a SAM7. Much pricier, but much less chance of having those issues you have experienced. I bought the PSA AK103 GF5 and after 2k rounds lost headspace and or the barrel is walking itself out. My 103 GF5 went from 2-4 moa to 12 moa at 50 yards. I like what PSA is trying to do, but they definitely need to tighten up their QC with AK's, and I wish em the best of luck. Till then I'm sticking to imports on the used market, and its very pricey. Also you might want to wait for Meridian to release their 103's and its not too much over your Budget. I'm personally on the fence with WBP, I know they have out of spec sparts they ship out, not sure about their complete rifles, heard they 50/50 too. But wish you the best of luck in your choice! |
| If you want better than average accuracy out of an AK, 5.45 and 5.56 are your best bets. My SGL31 will shoot with my 6920 at 100 yards. My old Zastava M90 was nearly as good as well. My Valmet M76 is up there as well. 7.62x39, in my experience, amounts to around a 5" gun at 100, and that's from a bench on a bag rest. I even tried handloading 7.62x39 for about 5 minutes thinking maybe I could squeeze a tad more out of the cartridge, but no dice. A tad better, but not worthwhile. |
RIP TSgt Jason Norton and SSgt Brian McElroy. KIA 22 Jan 06, near Taji, Iraq.
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Originally Posted By CATM: If you want better than average accuracy out of an AK, 5.45 and 5.56 are your best bets. My SGL31 will shoot with my 6920 at 100 yards. My old Zastava M90 was nearly as good as well. My Valmet M76 is up there as well. 7.62x39, in my experience, amounts to around a 5" gun at 100, and that's from a bench on a bag rest. I even tried handloading 7.62x39 for about 5 minutes thinking maybe I could squeeze a tad more out of the cartridge, but no dice. A tad better, but not worthwhile. I think the various bolt guns in 7.62x39 have shown that it can be a moderately accurate cartridge. I don’t know that the relatively thin barrel on most AKMs will ever lend itself to good accuracy, even with handloads. Thicker barrel profile on some milled AKs, Chinese AKs or Yugos may fare better with tailored handloads. Many RPKs shoot really well, and ironically enough the Yugo M92 is known to be very accurate due to the very short heavy profile barrel, which seems to be highly resistant to barrel flex when fired. I own both and they are my most accurate 7.62x39 rifles, better than my SKSes as well - though part of that is being able to mount optics |
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Originally Posted By mancat: I think the various bolt guns in 7.62x39 have shown that it can be a moderately accurate cartridge. I don’t know that the relatively thin barrel on most AKMs will ever lend itself to good accuracy, even with handloads. Thicker barrel profile on some milled AKs, Chinese AKs or Yugos may fare better with tailored handloads. Many RPKs shoot really well, and ironically enough the Yugo M92 is known to be very accurate due to the very short heavy profile barrel, which seems to be highly resistant to barrel flex when fired. I own both and they are my most accurate 7.62x39 rifles, better than my SKSes as well - though part of that is being able to mount optics An XP100 in 7.62x39 has shown me it can be a very accurate cartridge. Want me to shoot eyes and a mouth on a 4" target at 400 yards? That XP100 will do it and that's a pistol length barrel. That was with wolf steel case too. |
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I found that AK master mount from akou with the primary arms 3x cyclops to be terrible paired with the AK 103 gf3. I basically had the exact setup and it was all over the place. I blame the mount because I can hit consistently with PSA AKs and those PA cyclops optics. I traded my gf3 away but when I put that optic on something else it will be with a different mount. Maybe I have a lemon or that combo just doesn't work but my RS mount holds zero great with my other cyclops. Eta- I really like my PSA 101 and Romanian gf3 build and I have a gf4 I'm still testing to see if it's solid but I'd probably only buy their Sabre AK if I got another one from them. It's built on Romanian core parts and has the FN barrel built with proper dimples plus it's not too expensive for what you get at $1100. I wouldn't expect great accuracy out of steel case x39 but I'd recommend ditching that masters mount and getting a WASR, Zastava, or buy an unconverted Saiga (if they are still around $1100) and save up slowly to have it converted one day and really have a nice AK. |
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Clean your barrel thoroughly. Buy better ammo than 123 grain FMJ's. Install a scope. AK sights are hideous. I have been using old Leupold M8 pistol scopes purchased used and mounting them on the lowest rings that will work using a railed gas tube. If you shop around, you will probably be able to buy a 2.5X (good for combat style shooting at short range) or a 4X Leupold M8 EER (pistol scopes) better for 100-yard accuracy. 2 to 2.5" groups @ 100 yards is common with good ammo and a magnified optic. Consider reloading using H4198 (24.5 to 25.0 grains) or H322 (28.0 grains) with Hornady 123 grain SP bullets or Sierra's 125 grain .311" seating both bullets around 2.190". |
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First thing I'd do is use irons or a different optic combo Even if the optic and side mount feel tight, there could be issues with either one of them. It's not common but I've had accuracy issues like this with a variety of AKs over the decades and most of the time the final cause was figured out by swapping the optic or side mount to something else...irons, or a different optic/mount combo. Looseness and wandering groups seem to sneak up me the most when I assume the optic is rock solid AK irons are fine, you just have to get used to using them. 6 to 8 MOA is not acceptable for an AK though, and despite what many continue to regurgitate about how they are designed and built, they are capable of consistent and surprising accuracy...at least compared to the FUD lore that they are minute of man and can't hit the broad side of a barn. 6 MOA is not normal at all I'm not recommending you sell the GF3 for a different rifle but the PSA 103 with the FN barrel has been lights out accurate for me. Legit 1.4 MOA groups with an optic, confirmed by me and others. I've had two of them total, and they both shot the same. All in all I know of 5 or 6 that have been heavily tested, and none of them shot over 1.8 MOA which is impressive Back to your issue, as others have wisely said, try changing your aiming method first. Using a different system will be the quickest way to figure out what to do next. If you are feeling spendy, try some Federal Fusion 123gr ammo. It's been the overall best that I've seen in my 7.62 rifles and it may help get you better groups, but I wouldn't buy it to solve your current problem. It could be useful for seeing if better ammo makes a difference though. More data is always better when troubleshooting |
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15 years ago, I did a big AK range day with 5 or 6 different AKs. I had the following offhand: 1. Arsenal SAM-7 2. Polytech type 56 spiker 3. Yugo M70B1 kit build 4. Yugo M70AB2 under folder 5. Romanian kit built G series Using Brown Bear 123 FMJ ammo, every single one of them shot 3-4” 5 shot groups or less at 100 yards. That’s with the iron sights.. it was pretty interesting. 6-8” is not acceptable. |
| I don't know if its me or the AK, but I never could shoot my FEG SA85M worth a damn. Plus, it gave me a real whipping with stock slap. I had an FEG AMD65 with a dot sight and it shot fine. Anyway, now I shoot 7.62x39 in an AR and its great - accurate and no problems. I do still have a traditional AK - a Zastava M92 pistol with dot sight. Shoots great! My last 7.62x39 is an AR pistol - shoots great, no problems. |
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Do you have any photos of the groups? Do you see a cluster of shots to the left and then another cluster to the right or is it a completely random pattern? I suspect the reason that some AKs shoot better than others has to do with how the barrel slides into the trunnion. |
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Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane: AKs are built by fetal alcohol syndrome Eastern Europe factory drones (probably drunk), to loose specifications, for rough use by illiterate peasant conscripts, demilled with extreme prejudice (by more Eastern European conscripts - also probably drunk), then re-assembled locally. It’s a miracle that they work at all. Attached File …as an unquestionable fan of the AK platform… …I approve this message! 🤣 |
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