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Posted: 10/16/2013 5:12:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MARSH1][Edited]
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Just arrived!! The best cowitness you can get on an AK and TWS quality!!
LINK TO PURCHASE LINK TO MOUNT SOLD SEPARATELY 
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Marhsall.........very interesting......so the sight looks like a fixed base even though its not, because it screws directly into the TWS versus a rail attachment base, in essence eliminating the "middle man"? lol
I just got 3 brand new MD-07s from you guys 2 weeks ago for my ultimaks but now this has me thinking Is this setup actually a lower / more co witness sight picture then my MD-07 fixed base on the ultimak? My sight picture currently shows more of my sights in the optic glass BUT then again its in front of the rear sight only showing the front sight versus this new sight picture posted has the rear sight in front of the optic giving off the illusion that the sight picture looks more "filled" do you know what setting the fixed rear iron sight would be in comparison to a standard adjustable sight (battlle, 1, 2 3,) |
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Originally Posted By Sublimeon24s:
Marhsall.........very interesting......so the sight looks like a fixed base even though its not, because it screws directly into the TWS versus a rail attachment base, in essence eliminating the "middle man"? lol I just got 3 brand new MD-07s from you guys 2 weeks ago for my ultimaks but now this has me thinking Is this setup actually a lower / more co witness sight picture then my MD-07 fixed base on the ultimak? My sight picture currently shows more of my sights in the optic glass BUT then again its in front of the rear sight only showing the front sight versus this new sight picture posted has the rear sight in front of the optic giving off the illusion that the sight picture looks more "filled" do you know what setting the fixed rear iron sight would be in comparison to a standard adjustable sight (battlle, 1, 2 3,) I will ask Nelson at TWS about the rear sight zero. This shows a little more of the irons than the Ultimak. |
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Originally Posted By MARSH1:
I will ask Nelson at TWS about the rear sight zero. This shows a little more of the irons than the Ultimak. Originally Posted By MARSH1:
Originally Posted By Sublimeon24s:
Marhsall.........very interesting......so the sight looks like a fixed base even though its not, because it screws directly into the TWS versus a rail attachment base, in essence eliminating the "middle man"? lol I just got 3 brand new MD-07s from you guys 2 weeks ago for my ultimaks but now this has me thinking Is this setup actually a lower / more co witness sight picture then my MD-07 fixed base on the ultimak? My sight picture currently shows more of my sights in the optic glass BUT then again its in front of the rear sight only showing the front sight versus this new sight picture posted has the rear sight in front of the optic giving off the illusion that the sight picture looks more "filled" do you know what setting the fixed rear iron sight would be in comparison to a standard adjustable sight (battlle, 1, 2 3,) I will ask Nelson at TWS about the rear sight zero. This shows a little more of the irons than the Ultimak. The integral leaf sight is non adjustable and dimensioned to zero at 100 yards. Rafaga TWS |
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Originally Posted By AJFB004:
How does this thing hold a zero ? Structurally having it on the cover wouldn't there be too much variance in where it hooks up with the receiver after maintenance. The mount completely replaces the cover and has a tension system system that ;locks it in place. . |
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Primary Arms & TWS,
I really like the TWS dogleg railed cover & have the full pic version on my mini Draco SBR (left side charge converted). I like this lower direct mount version even more. If I have one of my Primary Arms micro dots mounted to the new version, I won't need any of the pic rail at all, because it has an incorporated rear "iron sight" about where the leaf sight would have been, correct? Will you please release a version that is smooth topped & just has mount holes for the optic? If not, would milling off the pic rail weaken the structural integrity of the cover? Pics: 
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As stated above, the rear iron sight is fixed...no elevation (or windage) adjustment.
I installed my Primary Arms Micro Dot after Xmas (thanks sis!) without any issues...it fit like a glove. The "dot" lined up perfectly through my iron sights, I had read that they ship the sight centered from the factory. I zero'd at about 50 meters using a Lead Sled...I shit you not my first three rounds were on the bullseye, 1" shot group...I was done without adjusting the sight at all! I put about 300 more rds through my MAK-90 and re-zero'd...same story', I couldn't be happier! Thank you TWS and PA! |
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I just got my dogleg and am now contemplating putting the original wood back on, or getting that delicious TWS handguard.
Anyone have the TWS handguard on their Draco? Thought the gas tube was a bit shorter, making it necessary to modify the handguard in order for it to fit. |
| Seems a little silly to have the pic rail on it since there's really nothing you could mount on it other than the mini RDS it's designed for and has an allocated spot for. I don't see a way to put a magnifier on there, an offset pic rail for...another set of irons? lol I would think a smarter design would be to leave it smooth (retaining some of the original lines of the gun now lost with this thing) and have 2 or 3 locations you could mount that RDS along the length of that cover. The profile of the new cover with it's pic rail looks very frankenstein-like kinda like the older nodak spud 10/22 receivers until they rounded off the backs. More importantly, it looks like there's no way to secure this cover down at the rear which has proven to be a necessity for these American designed pic rail covers...unless I just can't see it...and the obvious purpose for securing the rear down is in case there's play, which will hose your RDS zero because over the huge variety of receivers this will mount to, there's bound to be ones that give this cover play. |
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Originally Posted By papasasquatch:
Seems a little silly to have the pic rail on it since there's really nothing you could mount on it other than the mini RDS it's designed for and has an allocated spot for. I don't see a way to put a magnifier on there, an offset pic rail for...another set of irons? lol I would think a smarter design would be to leave it smooth (retaining some of the original lines of the gun now lost with this thing) and have 2 or 3 locations you could mount that RDS along the length of that cover. The profile of the new cover with it's pic rail looks very frankenstein-like kinda like the older nodak spud 10/22 receivers until they rounded off the backs. More importantly, it looks like there's no way to secure this cover down at the rear which has proven to be a necessity for these American designed pic rail covers...unless I just can't see it...and the obvious purpose for securing the rear down is in case there's play, which will hose your RDS zero because over the huge variety of receivers this will mount to, there's bound to be ones that give this cover play. I have both this version and the full length version. With this version, I get very good co-witness and able to take of red dot and mount scope for when I work on new reloads. Plus I got this and a Primary Arms red dot for less than what most red dots cost...Also, it comes with a new rear recoil spring hold thing that pushes the cover against the rear trunion |
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The t1 and other copies will co-witness with the standard TWS rail cover. At least with the set up below. With the new cover above, I would end up with a shorter sight radius, and a rear blade that is non-adjustable.
FYI, the "XS low weaver peep" will mount, and is adjustable for windage and elevation with interchangeable peeps. So, of course, you can dead center your front sight and then adjust the rear, etc. if you use the XS, as in my case. You have to remove a little bit of metal on the bottom of the XS, easy, and if you want, you can re-tap the windage screw threads for some nice SS allen screws (6-40 ? i cant remember). I like a peep with a large aperture, and the XS sight comes with two large apertures. Best of all, it is all STEEL, not aluminium. So what milling work to the bottom of the sight I had to do, is easy to cold blue. I think my cover maintains zero, hard to tell. Shoots well. I will (most likely) never swap it out, as I am very happy with the top cover (anyone want the TWS aluminium peep it came with, I will sell it cheap, if I can find it). I like how it pivots up and over, and stays attached to the rifle during cleaning. With the T1, and copies, the below set up is a 1/3 co witness. I can post a pic of a "see thru" later. I could have sworn my friend can also co-witness with the TWS old cover, and the TWS peep, through a real T1 with weaver mount. That was on a Saiga 5.45. 
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I have this product and heartily recommend it to all my friends. It's the bomb - it's got more cowitness than the previous cover, the dot sits a little lower.
The FSB makes a pretty cool sight picture actually, kind of like an upside down horseshoe on the PA ACSS reticule, with the red dot in the middle. Obviously they're on different planes, but it's a good look. I think TWS should send me a handguard so that I can mount BUIS and show it off to my friends, im sure they'd all end up buying the handguard too if they did ;) |
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Originally Posted By DavidE:
The t1 and other copies will co-witness with the standard TWS rail cover. At least with the set up below. With the new cover above, I would end up with a shorter sight radius, and a rear blade that is non-adjustable. FYI, the "XS low weaver peep" will mount, and is adjustable for windage and elevation with interchangeable peeps. So, of course, you can dead center your front sight and then adjust the rear, etc. if you use the XS, as in my case. You have to remove a little bit of metal on the bottom of the XS, easy, and if you want, you can re-tap the windage screw threads for some nice SS allen screws (6-40 ? i cant remember). I like a peep with a large aperture, and the XS sight comes with two large apertures. Best of all, it is all STEEL, not aluminium. So what milling work to the bottom of the sight I had to do, is easy to cold blue. I think my cover maintains zero, hard to tell. Shoots well. I will (most likely) never swap it out, as I am very happy with the top cover (anyone want the TWS aluminium peep it came with, I will sell it cheap, if I can find it). I like how it pivots up and over, and stays attached to the rifle during cleaning. With the T1, and copies, the below set up is a 1/3 co witness. I can post a pic of a "see thru" later. I could have sworn my friend can also co-witness with the TWS old cover, and the TWS peep, through a real T1 with weaver mount. That was on a Saiga 5.45. https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/1551661_10203092260615985_375354281_n.jpg That sir is a fantastic looking AK. I might have to get back into AKs now. 
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I was watching a review by Rob Ski from AK Operators Union 47/74 on this product.. They did a drop test with the cover in the open position to simulate abuse that the product might receive in the field...
It failed at the hinge.. Bent ..Inoperable... Bent right over... Any one else see that??? Has TWS addressed this issue with an all-steel hinge??? |
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Originally Posted By bushwack:
The rail gives you the ability to switch over to a scope, if you want to. If TWS had made this cover with only the ability to mount the T-1 sight, people would be bitching asking why they didn't put a rail on it. Boom... better to have and not need than to need and not have. |
The left supports war as long as it can have the welfare state, and the right supports the welfare state as long as it can have war. Garet Garrett "The Peoples Pottage"
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Originally Posted By D_CRISIS:
I would also prefer it without the rail. I don't see the point of it with the T1 bolted in. Originally Posted By D_CRISIS:
I would also prefer it without the rail. I don't see the point of it with the T1 bolted in. THIS Originally Posted By bushwack:
The rail gives you the ability to switch over to a scope, if you want to. If TWS had made this cover with only the ability to mount the T-1 sight, people would be bitching asking why they didn't put a rail on it. and THIS :) Originally Posted By Brutus2:
Boom... better to have and not need than to need and not have. |
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Originally Posted By Rafaga:
THIS and THIS :) Originally Posted By Rafaga:
Originally Posted By D_CRISIS:
I would also prefer it without the rail. I don't see the point of it with the T1 bolted in. THIS Originally Posted By bushwack:
The rail gives you the ability to switch over to a scope, if you want to. If TWS had made this cover with only the ability to mount the T-1 sight, people would be bitching asking why they didn't put a rail on it. and THIS :) Originally Posted By Brutus2:
Boom... better to have and not need than to need and not have. Hey Rafaga do you all plan on doing anything for the M92 like railed handguards and or top covers? |
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Originally Posted By Rafaga:
THIS and THIS :) Originally Posted By Rafaga:
Originally Posted By D_CRISIS:
I would also prefer it without the rail. I don't see the point of it with the T1 bolted in. THIS Originally Posted By bushwack:
The rail gives you the ability to switch over to a scope, if you want to. If TWS had made this cover with only the ability to mount the T-1 sight, people would be bitching asking why they didn't put a rail on it. and THIS :) Originally Posted By Brutus2:
Boom... better to have and not need than to need and not have. They could make an Aimpoint only model and a separate railed model. The don't have to go with the old Model T business method of "you can have any color you want as long as it's black". |
Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Psalms 91:5
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Originally Posted By D_CRISIS:
They could make an Aimpoint only model and a separate railed model. The don't have to go with the old Model T business method of "you can have any color you want as long as it's black". I don't think I fully understand what you're after. The cover being discussed here is an Aimpoint model and there is also a seperate fully railed model. The short sections of picatinny are what allow you to bolt on a rear BUIS if you prefer that to the built in leaf sight. The short sections of rail also allow you to attach other things like brass catchers if you're doing AerialOps. Popular in Texas for feral hog control. If the few available rail slots were milled away you might save an amount of weight equal to maybe 3-4 paper clips. We figured it was better to keep the remaining rail sections. TWS |
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