Probably been talked to death.
What are you thought on it?  
I am going to guess that ammo is expensive?  
Can you use standard ar mags?
thanks

great long range performer in an AR package if that's what you are looking for.

It sucks. Just shoot 5.56 out of your AR. If you want to shoot farther, get a 308 AR. The "advantages" of shooting the 6.5 out of the AR-15 sized gun vs 308 out of an AR-10 are far outweighed by the scarcity of components, expense of ammo, crappiness of the mags, and length of barrel you need to get good performance from the Grendel.



Some people post that their mags work fine. Don't listen to them.

A Hornady 123 grain AMAX goes 2500 FPS from a Grendel with a BC of .510.  and weighs around 6-8 lbs depending on how the rifle is set up. Very attractive performance from the AR platform.

The only component with any degree of scarcity is the brass. It will run about $0.66/case for Hornady and more for Lapua. Other than that, it is very easy to find bullets. Factory ammo is expensive and not very plentiful, but for a reloader the 6.5G is a fun cartridge to play with.

I have no problems from my Cproducts mag.   It is the only one I have.  My friend has not had any problems out of his few.  You dont need a long barrel to get good performance from the Grendel.  I dont have a problem sourcing ammo.  Here in Louisiana or in SC when I travel there.  I cant find powder to load for it though.  Projectiles are easy to get.

Haha, the only component scarce is the fucking brass? No big deal! I waited a 9 MONTHS for a bolt to become available. Fuck that.



The reply that will follow - things are getting better, don't worry, we'll have steel cased cheap ammo in just TWO WEEKS!



Been hearing that crap for five years.



 

If i was going AR10 route I'd get one in 6.5-08. For AR15 I agree, stick with 5.56, except I have a couple 6.8 SPC's I like...

You can use 7.62x39 brass and fire form it to 6.5.  I had to tweek one or 2 sets of feed lips on old c products mags.  I haven't ran my stoner mags to know.  I have factory 14.5 and Franken 10.5.  14.5 was my first foray into the brd.  Just do it.  If there's other questions, on which to get, get both.  I wanted to get into 308 platform, but probably won't.  May do 260 or 6.5 creedmore at some point.

What bullet does it take?
Are they built on ar15 lowers or ar10 lower?
thanks

I fireformed hundreds of x39. The case capacity is smaller so you get even lower performance. Yay!



If you could dial it up to 65kpsi it would be ok. At 50kpsi it isn't worth your time.



 

I got one to play around with when I get home. I'm not expecting a uber flat 1000 meter round. But it should be fun to play with out to about 800 or so.
If you want one go with it. If I don't like mine I got. 24 inch 223 tube that I'mma swap out with it.


Scott

Every body is welcome to their own opinion.  I have a 16" 6.5 Grendel and I liked it so well I bought a 20" Shilen barrel.  I have shot both to 800 yards and  I really like the 6.5 Grendel cartridge.    Granted demand has exceeded supply the last couple of years but things are freeing up a little.  I researched before I bought my first 6.5 Grendel.   For me I made the right choice.

Uhm...it takes a 6.5 Grendel bullet?  Many manufacturers make them.  Standard AR15 lower.  

I debated this to death for my own purposes.  I concluded that if you want a bigger bullet and better performance on medium sized game go with the 6.8 SPC.

There are informed opinions, and there are opinions like half formed insects on the banks of the Nile. I bought a Grendel the first year they came out. The statement in bold is like liturgy repeated by the faithful in the Church of Grendel. Any informed actor knows it is vacuous.



 

Topic Moved

I understand your negativity but I agree that things are starting to free up (No really, I do). I got a barrel in three weeks from a custom manufacturer, barrel and bolt combos are readily available from midway usa and brownells, and bolts are currently available and shipping within a few days from multiple companies as well (Maxim, underground tactical, precision firearms, and tactical ammunition to name a few). Brass is also in stock places. You may still have a hard time finding some things locally. In NJ just about nobody sells smokeless powder, so I have to drive to PA for that and primers, but otherwise I'd say that if you use the internet and are willing to wait a month at most (to hit the right sales at PSA, midway and the like) you can get one together easily. I agree that it is a fun round if you reload.

I just got out of 6.5 Grendel and here is why:

The cartridge is being suffocated by various component designs and variances, the chamber/throat is very precise and there have been tweaks and tunes to it that in my opinion make the cartridge on the whole, unnecessarily complex and unsafe to operate.

Sure it was SAMMI approved but subsequently you have different barrel and bolt makers getting involved and of the 3 6.5 grendels or variants that I owned only 1 could be trusted.

If you look hard enough you can source all the components but my decision was based on this -

10 years from now when you are looking to sell the gun or re-barrel it, will there still be a market for it or will the components still be interchangable?

It is so crazy right now that FACTORY ammo is not chambering in new builds.

Something to think about - like I say I enjoyed the 6.5G for a few years but it is getting too murky for me.

HTXH

I love my Grendel. Granted I have a unobtainium barrel Harison cut for me over at ARP I think it is one of the best rifles I own. You have to balance energy, and ballistics to squeeze the most out of the AR-15 platform. The .265 LBC/Grendel does that.

The problems: Barrel manufacturers are cutting chambers in all kinds of dimensions trying to make it better. This is leading to rifles not chambering factory ammunition. Brass availability can be an issue, and bullets are a little more expensive than your .223, or .308 variety sometimes. But, you can fireform brass from 7.62x39 which will allow it to continue long after the demise of this round. That begs the question will it disappear? I dont think so, but people are getting turned off by bad cut chambers. Everyone that shoots mine wants one, but I have to tell them the bad news. If you want a Grendel right now the ONLY option that is worthwhile is Alexander Arms.

Love my 16" mid-length Grendel.  Compact, lightweight, accurate, and can really reach out and touch something.  Awesome sauce.

Basically every one of your points is the opposite of my experience.

.308 AR's suck for weight and recoil penalty, only to shoot a very mediocre cartridge. I've spent my entire adult life watching .308 go downrange, and it flat out is not a good long-range cartridge unless you really approach it from a reloading standpoint. I've owned 5 different AR10's, and I'll never be building another in .308, although I do want an original Armalite for collection purposes.

Scarcity of components:  Maybe I've just been lucky with brass, which I keep getting more of every time I pull the trigger on the "scarce" factory ammo, of which there are at least 30 offerings now.

Mags: I've been using Grendel mags from all the manufacturers since 2009, and they all work for me, with no tweaks. I have seen some that needed replacement/return, but that was back in the days of CProducts. We're just not seeing mag issues like we used to.

Barrels and bolts:  Just an order away from major distributors like Brownell's and Midway. High quality bolts are available from AA, Precision Firearms, Maxim Firearms, and Underground Tactical.

Length of barrel: My 16" Grendel with factory 123gr A-MAX has been used to repetitively place rounds on target out to 1200yds, which I would have called BS on before I watched myself do it in the scope, with several other guys who had kindly challenged me to hit the target they were not even close to hitting at that distance.

The 6.5 Grendel makes the .308 pointless in many ways. I got totally out of .308 mainly because of it, and I had been dreaming about a .308 AR carbine since the 1980's when I was a kid.

So you would like .270 Winchester pressures in the AR15. How do you think that would work out with any cartridge?

There are Grendel loads under 50,000psi that are great. The older I get, the lower and lower pressures appeal to me more, with elongated burn curves with the propellant.

8208XBR, Hodgdon's CFE, H335, and N530 do very well at that in the Grendel. There are loads that push over 2900fps that are 49,300psi per Hodgdon's data.

The Grendel is the hunting cartridge to beat in the AR15 as well. I've now lost track of how many twofers there have been with Grendel's, to include hogs and deer.

I decided to build a grendel about  four weeks ago. In a two week time frame I was able to order everything I needed to build the rifle, to shoot the rifle, and to reload for it. Ammo availability comes and goes but reloading components for it are fairly easy to find. Got to take her out today and break her in, she is a tack driver! I am very happy I went with the grendel.  IMO the grendel really maximizes the performance of the ar15 platform.
Btw, I went with the lilja 20 " barrel and maxis bolt and had no issues.

I've had mine for a couple years now, it's an 18" Liberty barrel and I love it.  I wouldn't be concerned about reloading supplies, they are scarce for most calibers at the moment.  Prior to the craziness finding parts to build a rifle were available although there might have been a short time because everyone wanted one.  Prior to the craziness ammo wasn't a problem either, I bought a case of Hornady 123 grain Amax just because it was easier than a box or two at a time and it was readily available.  Things are getting easier to find but after all the crazy is over it should go back to normal.  I've been watching the availability of high quality ammo and it's not hard to find usually.

Since it's not really a plinking rifle ammo lasts well for me.  It is amazing how spectacular the ability of this cartridge is and being such a light recoiling caliber in a lightweight AR15 platform it's impossible to beat.  You can't please everyone and some folks will complain about being hung with a brand new rope so pay no mind to the occasional negatively, their complaints are easily dismissed.

If you end up getting one you'll love it.

Hornady factory 123gr SST's can now be had for $19.95, or $19.49 for 10 box orders.

Well, 5.56 is 62kpsi so that's close enough. You know what I meant.






That's nice for bench shooting. Actually using the gun for a 3 gun or even shooting around the ranch and you will see serious brass attrition. It's not worth the minor improvement over 5.56.



And the improvements are minor. Keep your charts to yourself.
 

Bench shooting?  You won't see any bench shooting in my pics with the Grendel, unless I'm doing load development, and even then I prefer to be away from public ranges.

My 16" carbine isn't exactly what I'd call a bench gun, especially at 8.6lbs with optics.

Roger, if I was shooting 3-gun East of the Mississippi like I used to when living in the Carolina's, 5.56 was consumed in bolt-breaking quantities.

If the ranges have more distance, then 5.56 is nowhere near Grendel.  I run a lot of DM Courses where I get to see 5.56, 7.62, and Grendel on steel.  You can barely register the hits with 5.56 if there is even a small amount of wind once the distances start reaching 400yds. It may be hitting the plate, but it is very difficult to tell.

No such thing with a 123gr 6.5mm. You can hear the hits very clearly, and you have much less wind drift than 5.56, even compared with the 77gr Mk.262 (with a BC in the mid .3's).  My 16" Grendel also has better wind-bucking ability than the 175gr SMK in .308, but with much less recoil and faster follow-ups.

For performance on animals, it's a totally different ballgame.   What you may see as "minor" as numbers on a computer screen or charts that you were prefer to remain ignorant of, I see as significant in the real world on-target. Have you ever taken a 16" 5.56 carbine out to 1200yds, for example?  With factory ammo?  Good luck with that. I shoot a ton of 5.56, and have done so since I was 14 in 1988.  I still have plenty of 5.56 blasters, and always will, but the 6.5 Grendel does things 5.56 just can't, especially with shorter barrels.

My 15 round mags work fine at 14 rounds.  Your post is full of untruths.

Bolts are readily available from multiple sources now. I went through the same thing getting parts.   There will never be steel cased 6.5 G ammo, I did not want any anyway

I only bought the 25 rounders. I also used it in competition so I'm not your average bench shooter.



 

That's weird, bro. I did a match with steel at 500 yards and no one had a problem seeing the 5.56 hits.



 

When I run my courses, I'm on a spotting scope from 0900-1700, day after day.  A 16" 5.56 carbine, even with a good load, is very difficult to register the hit in wind. Not all plates are the same.

An 18" steel plate barely moves, and if the wind is full value and over 10mph, you often won't hear the impact, even with electronic muffs.

If there is no wind, it's clear as day, but up here in the mountains, we usually have pretty significant wind. On a clear day or evening, I can hear 5.56 match ammo impact the steel very well out to 600yds even, especially from 20" guns shooting 68gr/69gr and up with a hot load, but the conditions are very influential on being able to register hits.

It's not even in the same ballpark as a 123gr 6.5mm, or even a 107gr 6.5mm.  Wind drift and retained energy are markedly different:

At 600yds, the 16" puny little Grendel carbine is impacting steel with a 123gr with 873ft-lbs and 1.1 mils of drift for full value 10mph wind. Mv is 2550fps

If I compare my 18" JP .223 Wylde running a high pressure load under the 77gr SMK, I'm at 488ft-lbs and 1.5 mils of drift for FV/10mph wind.  Mv is 2820fps

That's a comparison where I gave bias to the .223 Wylde with a longer barrel and leaned outside of the normal velocity range. Mk.262 generally hits in the high 2700's, or 2800fps from an 18" in my experience, and is an awesome 5.56 load for shooting intermediate range, but it is no match for the Grendel.  You're looking at almost half the energy at 600yds, and that makes a huge difference on steel, especially if the spotter at a match isn't very experienced in watching bullets impacting plates. Smaller plates that swing with even the slightest impact from 5.56 can help overcome this.

A lot of people who first get behind the scope think hits are misses because of the bullet splash disrupting the dirt around the target, so it takes experience to know what is going on through a spotter. For competition, a heavier pill impacting steel closes that experience gap because you get a more audible impact in the wind.

I am not a bench shooter at all.  I wouldn't select a 6.5G for 3 gun

Where have you used your 6.5G? I used mine in Run n gun in the sun, bug out drill, some team challenges at Tiger Valley, and deer hunting. The 5.56 would have done a better job in all of them. My white tails are only 120lbs though.

I use mine field shooting steel and Hunting I  killed 6 or 7 deer with it last year and put finishing rounds into 4 others shot by other people.  I shot my buck with it at 300 yards or so in extremely high wind.  That shot impressed me.  I have killed a ton of deer with 223 if you ever saw my Deer vs 223 threads.   The 6.5G did not really do a "better job" terminally than the 223 bullets I prefer.  It did however do a GOOD job as well or maybe slightly better. 500 yards and beyond the Grendel is easier to hit with and its easier to hit with in the wind.(not talking about shooting deer at 500 yards and out)

So basically sitting in one location and shooting. About what I figured.

Uh no, not sure what point you are trying to get to?  I dont do a lot of rapid fire shooting with it.  I have  done a little, it definitely recoils a little harder than 5.56 and has more muzzle jump.  I do not use it for a run and gun round like I said I wouldnt use a 6.5 for 3 gun

My point is that the 6.5G is rarely run very hard. Back when it came out it was pushed as a military replacement round, but if you use it like that the available components don't hold up and it's super expensive to be losing all that brass.



So that leaves static, low round count shooting. But if you're using it for that, just shoot a 308 or 260 AR. They're only like 1.5 lbs heavier if you're smart with components.



The 6.5G was the answer to a question that some people asked, but it turned out to be a dumb question.

Have you ever shot .308 in high round count events, like over a 3-day period, with a light rifle?  I have. It sucks, and I was shooting suppressed the entire time. On Day 1, I already had a headache. .308 generates way more recoil than it's worth in a light rifle, therefore it cuts out kids, smaller-framed individuals, and those with shoulder, neck, or skull injuries.

Grendel bucks the wind better than even the latest match .308 loads with 175gr SMK, not even counting the 123gr 6.5mm Scenar. You can shoot it all day, day after day, with no fatigue.

People have been asking for more performance from the AR15 since it was introduced. They finally got it, and are very pleased.  I own a .260 Rem AR10, my 2nd one. It's not exactly the rifle you run and gun with. The performance difference between the Grendel and .260 Rem is ~90yds if the barrel length is the same. Between my 8.6lb 16" Grendel (with optics and mag) and my 13lb 11oz AR10 in .260 Rem (no quad rail, just optics, JP tube, LaRue LT-112, empty mag, harris), guess which one gets taken out the most?

I can feed the Grendel factory ammo all day long. My .260 Rem will never see a factory round. Cost for loading or feeding the .260 Rem is much higher. They both are supersonic past 1200yds for me, so it's a no brainer to take the little Grendel out and let the big boy sit.

What event was that?



I put a case of Hirtenburger through my HK91 clone in a day. I had fun.



 

I have both a 6.5g 16" AA, with a 1-4x, and i also have an ar10 20" with a 3-21x

i use my ar10 as my long range precision rifle works great in that capacity.

i use my 6.5 as an extended range carbine/ deer hunting carbine. i am happy with it up close in the brush or across a 500yrd field from a deer stand.
i have put my grendel through hours of cqb (back when i could afford it) and precision practice shooting up to 500yrds and in regards to both accuracy( around 1 moa with an AA cl barrel w/ match ammo) and relaibility, i have not had issues, ihave taken many white tail with it as well.

components... harder to find components than 5.56, not enough vendors making parts to have bounced back from the 2013 panic like 5.56 or even 300 blk.
i am seeing a lot of stuff out of stock but barrels and bolts can still be had at reasonable prices if you are google savvy.

ammo, most grendel ammo is specialty ammo (match and or hunting) so yes its more expensive. a good source of wolf mpt at a cheap price has not to my knowledge popped up post panic, as far as the rest its high quality ammo... not really any more expensive than high quality 5.56

mags... I have both AA mags and c-products, the AA mags are gtg, the c-products seem to work fine but the springs are weak (same with my 556 c-products mags) they run fine but i still replaced the springs just to ensure they dont loose strength.

as far as bad chambers, do some research on who you are buying from... dont buy some crazy "improved 6.5 sporter chamber" stick with the saami chamber and reputable manufacturers.


all and all it is not a replacement for 308, 5.56, or any other caliber, people need to quit it with the asinine "my caliber is better crap", it has performance parameters different form other calibers, if you want a rifle configuration that performs in a particular way, and grendel is the way to do it, than get one, if not than find something else you want.

in the fashion of the day get both... in fact get everything you want to get. i did and i am happy

Sniper Instructor Course with coalition partners overseas-borrowed a lightweight .308 SAKO that a guy had McMillan A4'd, suppressed with BR Tuote can, fed a nice 155gr Scenar load. I spent plenty of time shooting insane bull barreled M24's in the Army with M118 Special Ball, but that rifle (M24) is basically a club.

I like lightweight rifles with high BC's that you can shoot from positions, not prone queens. With my 16" Grendel, I can clear rooms, and reach out to 1200yds, with 25rd mags that weigh less than 20rd 7.62 mags. I get way more loads at the bench for the same amount of powder, and I get match ammo for the same price or less than .223 and 5.56 Match, as well as .308 Match.  Win, win, win for me. I got out of .308 because of 6.5mm.

Man this has really devolved into something else, the OP must be wondering what happened here.
I'm building one and if I find it sucks I'll admit it.
Brass is the only real concern as I'm pretty sure I'll never have enough (compared to the other two).

All the grendel is missing is some big name companies making parts, uppers, guns, and bulk cheap ammo of a price where it's realistic not to worry about losing cases. So, steel cased ammo.

back to the OP:

Recoil is very controllable, with repeat shots on moving/escaping targets through the scope with crosshairs on target.

Note: if you are contemplating use of an Enidine pneumatic rifle buffer to help reduce recoil, toss that thought because the Enidine will not work with the Grendel on a standard/18" AA gas upper (maybe a piston, but not gas).
You will need a standard A2 buffer, or your follow-up rounds will not cycle, at least in a rifle length buffer (I have not tried a carbine Enidine buffer in a carbine buffer tube on the 6.5G).  

I purchased a 6.5G AA upper strictly for hunting North American "big-game" with quick follow-ups.  It works.  A 6.8 SPC in a II chamber probably works just as well, but there is no denying that the 6.5 G in a 18" AA upper will make your AR hit harder and farther than the 5.56 (including my Noveske shooting 77s, which is my primary defend-my-kids'-lives weapon).

+1.  I had no problem keeping up with, and in most cases outshooting, $5000 custom rifles at a recent precision rifle course.  This, with a 16" barreled 6.5G with a cheap Primary Arms scope.  No problem in 20 mph driving rain, smacking targets at 500m.  No problem getting a first round hit on a 12" plate at 800 meters.  

Then, we went to position shooting.  Sliding down the side of a mountain, trying to hit a plate at 600m.  Did it, laughed at the guys with the 18lb 308s trying to shoot without a bi-pod.  Could they?  Yes, it could be (and was) accomplished.  It was A LOT easier and less fatiguing with a 9lb AR-15.  

I fired just under 300 rds in 3 days.  Didn't clean my rifle.  Used 2 ASC 6.8SPC 17rd mags.  Not one single failure.  OK, I lied.  I had a couple failures, but they were ammunition related (I crushed a couple case necks when loading my ammo.)  

Components have not been difficult to find.  I have 2 spare bolts.  In fact, making the complaint that ANY AR related component (ammo, brass, powder, primers, barrels, bolts, etc etc) is laughable.  We all KNOW everything is hard to find.  Kind of hard to entertain THAT as a serious complaint in relation to this rifle and round.....

Huge +1.
If you want "1000 yards + performance", then get a 300 Win mag.
But a 308 AR is a way better investment with little to no hassle in getting parts and
ammo. Same goes for 6.8 spc.
And besides, now DPMS has the new Gen 2 308 rifles featuring M4 dimensions.

300 Win Mag is going the way of the gun, and is a terrible cartridge to reload for. Recoil is such that you either need a very heavy rifle, or you won't be training with it regularly.  Belted magnums need to be full-length re-sized very carefully, and powder consumption is atrocious for the performance.  .260 Rem is a far better option compared to 300 Win Mag, and you see this in the long range shooting discipline big time.

Minefield of AR10 Parts Non-compatibility
308 AR's are better investments with little to no hassle in getting parts? The compatibility issues in the .308 AR market are such that you need to have been around during their development to keep track of which is which.  There are literally growing numbers of receiver designs that are not compatible with each other, furniture interface variations that are not compatible, and critical lower receiver parts that are not compatible, even among at least 5 designs that share the same magazines, and some of those designs don't even work with the magazines they are designed and advertised for.

Add to that the fact that the market is only getting more confusing, and manufacturers understand that many customers just want one or two of their unique components, so they can bash parts together outside of their control, so they make their unique parts non compatible with the rest of the industry.  Cases in point:

POF/Hogan (different pivot pins, different operating system)
S&W M&P10 (different BCG, different bolt, different barrel extension, different receivers)
RRA LAR-8 (different receivers, different BCG, different furniture, FAL mags, longer charge handle)
SIG716, PMAG issues, different operating system
Ruger SR762 (PMAG issues, different operating system)
LWRCi REPR (different receivers, different operating system, different charge handle system)
DPMS GII (different BCG, different barrel extension, different receivers, different charge handle length)

These are more recent developments in the AR10 market, not even mentioning the non-compatibility of the SR25, Armalite AR10, and DPMS LR308 series from the 1990's and first decade of the 21st Century. Getting the correct parts for a .308 AR can and is a hassle for a lot of people, especially when it comes to changing buttstocks, handguards, and cross-compatibility with critical components. I've owned 5 of them, and have been following the AR10 since the 1980's, when there were only parts kits from Sudanese and Dutch Armalites, and it is nothing like the AR15 market, where everything works together.  I can and do take AR15 parts made by Colt in the early 1960's, and mate them with parts made today without issue.

1000yd Performance?
Even if you say, just get one of the new .308's for your 1000yd performance, you still don't really have it.  What load will you be using? What barrel length?  In my pursuits for a 1000yd AR10, after going through 3 of them, I gave up and went .260 Remington and didn't look back.  My 22" .260 Rem is supersonic to ~1500yds. My 16" Grendel is supersonic to 1318yds in the same conditions, using the same exact bullet, with 10gr less powder, 8-10ksi less pressure, and way longer barrel life.

Where the Grendel Comes in:
I have literally shot it out to 1200yds with POA = POI as fast as I could break the trigger. I wouldn't have believed it myself except for the fact I was doing it, and that was with a factory Hornady 123gr A-MAX with .510 BC.  Then think about the fact that I'm getting that performance with way less pressure than a .308, and about half the recoil, and 10 gr less powder, that fits in a little AR15.

Hunting
Then turn around and take it hunting and prepare to leave your other hunting rifles in the safe.  Yeah, I think I'll be going out and buying an AR10 real quick. I haven't pounded my head against the wall hard enough, and could use some more punishment.

For those of you that are trying to introduce family members to shooting, especially women and children, one of the biggest memories they are going to have from their first time shooting will either be:

* Holy *****! That thing kicked so hard, it hurt my shoulder!  I don't want to shoot that ever again! (And this is what I will remember when you talk about going shooting from now on.)

or...

* Man, that was fun!  I just aimed, carefully pulled the trigger, and hit exactly where I was aiming, and could see it hit!  It was so fun!

The choice is yours. At a critical time when we are facing so many attacks on our rights, we need to be good ambassadors of the shooting disciplines and right to keep and bear arms. By gently introducing this generation and our family members who will have large say in our purchases, it might behoove us to think about how they will perceive their first time shooting with us. Leave the magnums and lightweight .308's at home would be my suggestion to you. Get a 6.5 Grendel, and don't look back.

I have a 300 WM with a brake.  I push 180 gr SST's at 3100 fps and it recoils like a 243, no joke.  Now, muzzle blast is definitely a problem.  It is no harder to reload for than any other cartridge, but you are correct about brass life.  That is the nature of the belted magnums.  3-4 loadings and the brass is toast.

I just received my AA 20" AWS  6.5 upper with Shilen barrel and WCI brake a few days ago.  I can't wait to test out the Grendel.  With the brake, I expect near zero recoil for fast follow up shots.