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Posted: 2/11/2018 1:30:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Stock
- not made of rubber or thin plastic - better sling mounts - solid mounting, will not slide or rotate - cheaper & are compatible with other rifles - compatible factory staked mil spec receiver extension - better looking Every time I think I want a pistol, I realize that for just a few more dollars I could SBR a lower & throw a M4 stock on it that I have lying around. That said the braces seem to be pretty effective for what they are, but they are still a compromise component. NFA aside, if it were brace vs stock, the stock is objectively better in every way. If there was a brace that was $70 or so that mounted to a regular Carbine extension, I might have a use for one. Last I checked you were in at least $140-200 for the brace & pistol tube. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 1:36:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Being able to legitimately shoulder a SBR is a big difference. I tried a pistol back before the brace craze but the opinion on those seems to change like the wind. I’ll take my SBRs and not worry about it.
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Posted: 2/11/2018 1:37:20 PM EDT
[#3]
SBRs no longer makes sense with the very solid braces on the market. Here in Washington St I can have a loaded pistol in my vehicle not so much with a rifle.
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Posted: 2/11/2018 1:38:58 PM EDT
[#4]
That's pretty much it. Stocks are a little bit more comfortable, but for me, the benefits of smaller package/conceal ability is where the braces just work. If my profession involved carrying one every day then an sbr. For those of us that want the convenience of the shorter length the brace is a great option. There are some adjustable braces now. I put several of psa's 10.5 uppers on lowers with braces. I really don't notice much difference between my one sbr and my pistol braces. Be happy we have em!
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Posted: 2/11/2018 1:39:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Pistol
Can take across state lines easier. Can have loaded in vehicle (some state you can’t have rifles loaded) No papers to keep up with No stamp No wait Can sell and do whatever with. And as for cost KAK blade brace and tube is about $70 and has a locking screw that fits into dimples on tube. Just as solid as a stock even if it is a little thin. Very little Recoil anyway so it doesn’t matter. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 1:43:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SBRs no longer makes sense with the very solid braces on the market. Here in Washington St I can have a loaded pistol in my vehicle not so much with a rifle. If I have extra cash some time I’ll probabl sbr one. But for now just a small pistol tube with foam on it works best only because it doesn’t pull on my beard lol. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 1:54:45 PM EDT
[#7]
At this time there is no point in SBRs.
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Posted: 2/11/2018 1:58:25 PM EDT
[#8]
In my state i can carry a loaded pistol in my car, can't with a rifle.
If you want a VFG, build a pistol over 26" then add a VFG and create a firearm. Many good brace options out now, some with adjustable LOP. No $200 tax on pistols. No extra engraving needed on pistols. Easy to cross state lines with a pistol. I have both pistols and SBRs. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 1:59:02 PM EDT
[#9]
You do you. If that's what you want and think, fine.
I don't want a pistol. I can keep the SBR loaded in my car and it's legal, even concealed. People need to know the laws of the people they argue this with, meaning states like mine where I am legally privileged more than them. If I cross state lines then I'm driving a significant amount of distance through large amounts of open space. Who in their right mind wants a short barrel anything when a 14.5 pinned and welded, or even a 16 is best for this? Exactly. The VFG helps me control the rifle with the way I shoot and it gives me more real estate to hold onto to make up for the lack of rail length. I use the stock in the same position too; fully extended. Unless it's cold and I have extra layers then I move closer either one or two clicks. I like having that option. And a stock is stronger and more durable than a blade as there's a lot of difference between feeling recoil and being unpleasant to cheek weld and having an actual comfortable stock that is pleasurable and comfortable to cheek weld. I don't like the NFA laws but until it goes away I'm going to pay to play. It's my money, I'll do what I want with it and I don't care what others think about it. They have no say in the matter anyways. So if you want to have a pistol, it's your money and not mine. I just don't see any valid reason for ME to want one because it's pointless and no one's argument will ever change my mind about it. 
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Posted: 2/11/2018 1:59:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Imo you need both.
The SBR lower(s) should be like any other lower you own so switching between your other lowers is seamless, and an SBR lower isn't an SBR with a 16"+ barreled upper. One pistol lower for loaded/concealed/vehicle use and crossing state lines without sufficient notice to file a 5320.20. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 2:02:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SBRs no longer makes sense with the very solid braces on the market. Here in Washington St I can have a loaded pistol in my vehicle not so much with a rifle. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 2:03:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pistol Can take across state lines easier. Can have loaded in vehicle (some state you can’t have rifles loaded) No papers to keep up with No stamp No wait Can sell and do whatever with. And as for cost KAK blade brace and tube is about $70 and has a locking screw that fits into dimples on tube. Just as solid as a stock even if it is a little thin. Very little Recoil anyway so it doesn’t matter. I'm not against the blade / brace, they are a cool idea & have certain applications, but if the NFA disappeared tomorrow do you think anyone would still be using them & proclaiming that there is no benefits to a regular Carbine stock? |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 2:07:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the often overlooked advantages of pistols. What if I told you that I can legally conceal a rifle locked and loaded in my front seat that is also an SBR? It's not an advantage then. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 2:11:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At this time there is no point in SBRs. But it's just your opinion and and not undisputed because I think that you're wrong. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 2:17:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You do you. If that's what you want and think, fine. So if you want to have a pistol, it's your money and not mine. I just don't see any valid reason for ME to want one because it's pointless and no one's argument will ever change my mind about it.  ). Chill.
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Posted: 2/11/2018 2:19:09 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But it's just your opinion and and not undisputed because I think that you're wrong. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 2:19:19 PM EDT
[#17]
This thread will turn into a pissing match. Guys saying their pistols are just as good as SBRs vs. guys that have paid the tax and waited for a SBR.
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Posted: 2/11/2018 2:29:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Smiley face or not....nobody seems to be arguing anything on this thread, only giving opinions. You seem to get your panties all in a wad over the subject matter of this thread (and another https://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif). Chill. Chill dude
And if its opinions, then shouldn't they properly communicate them without speaking in undisputed language? Over half of the arguments here would've never happened if people would communicate correctly. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 2:32:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For yourself? I can respect that opinion. But it's just your opinion and and not undisputed because I think that you're wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
At this time there is no point in SBRs. But it's just your opinion and and not undisputed because I think that you're wrong. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 2:33:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote History |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 2:34:01 PM EDT
[#21]
I got a pistol, the braces now a days are getting to be really good.
If you want a good stock that is comfortable you’ll be sacrificing a bit with a brace. It comes down to if you wanna throw the gov $200. Here’s the catch, of you want a super sturdy brace, you’re paying $220. 
That’s with a SBPDW brace. I paid $220 for it. It’s got 3 positions. The recoil is the same. If you train with it, it becomes second nature. I think it’s comfortable. I can shoot it all day. I do NOT have a KAK blade but heard they work fine but might be a tad more uncomfortable than the SBPDW or a normal stock. The ATF has said its legal to shoulder a brace so I don’t know why that’s even a thing anymore that people complain about. I’ve only ever shot mine shouldered. Never used the brace part on it. And if I want to collapse it and make it smaller I can. I don’t have an SBR but I plan to make one as my next build. Idk how your state is but some people can carry a pistol loaded in their car etc. but not a rifle. What’s your intended purpose for this gun? I live on the border of Michigan and INdiana. It’d be a pain to have an SBR since you can’t cross state lines with it. I’m skeptical of building one for that purpose. If you’re not gonna go to other states with it, or carry it in your car, just do the paperwork and make it an SBR. Be on the safe side legally. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 2:37:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Read the code of conduct in here, kid. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 2:43:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Just get a decent pistol brace and you can build your AR today. SBR...enjoy the wait time. It's partly a money issue to me (stamp cost), but the bigger issue...to me...is the wait time. ex. I Purchased my first suppressor/silencer/whateveryouwanttocall it back in September. Haven't heard a peep from the ATF and I doubt I will for a few more months.
If the wait time doesn't put you off...I don't see a reason not to go the SBR route. To me though...it's a bit asinine to spend hundreds (or $1,000 or more) for something and to have to wait months (or a year or more) to take possession of it. If the wait times were shorter, I'd be more likely to purchase additional NFA items. ex. .308 and .45 cans, as well as an SBR. As it is though...I doubt I'll rush out to buy any other NFA items. At least not for the time being. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 2:50:42 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look boy, you conesistently degrade threads with your emotional tirades that take posts as personal attacks, and some of us are sick of it. Grow up. K Click. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 2:59:43 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of the often overlooked advantages of pistols. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SBRs no longer makes sense with the very solid braces on the market. Here in Washington St I can have a loaded pistol in my vehicle not so much with a rifle. Laws in WI regarding a rifle are a bit ambiguous, & pistols for concealment can be as well but to a lesser degree yet federal definition states it's a handgun... but here it states we can carry loaded rifles in a vehicle but it has to be visible from outside the vehicle & not within reach of the driver. So what is considered "within reach"? In a typical car that would mean the back seat or floorboard. Is that considered "within reach"? In a trunk would be typically out of reach but then it's not visible. In an SUV in the most rear is definitely outside of reach but with dark tinted windows is that considered concealed? Also, I go to ranges in MN. With a pistol I can throw it in a case & not have any extra paperwork to worry about. Each to their own for their own reasons is the bottom line. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 3:00:01 PM EDT
[#26]
As someone who's in AZ and has sbrs... I can see the benefit of both. The reason I am for sbrs is mostly cause I have a trust and back when efile was a thing, it took me 3 weeks to get my (5) form 1s back. So for me, being able to have my sbrs and not a brace, is convenient. I don't get the argument of "able to cross state lines"... unless you live on the boarder of 1 state and the range u go to is another, then it's pointless.
I do see the flip of it. U can throw a brace on there, call it a pistol, and treat it like a sbr. Braces at first sucked but now they r almost the same as any normal stock. So yeah... pistol it this way u can go shoot and either submit the form 1 and then make it an sbr.... or not. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 3:10:50 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Read the code of conduct in here, kid. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: http://memecrunch.com/meme/74BMD/do-you-need-a-snickers-and-some-midol/image.jpg 
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Posted: 2/11/2018 3:18:07 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The reason I am for sbrs is mostly cause I have a trust and back when efile was a thing, it took me 3 weeks to get my (5) form 1s back. So for me, being able to have my sbrs and not a brace, is convenient. I don't get the argument of "able to cross state lines"... unless you live on the boarder of 1 state and the range u go to is another, then it's pointless. I do see the flip of it. U can throw a brace on there, call it a pistol, and treat it like a sbr. Braces at first sucked but now they r almost the same as any normal stock. So yeah... pistol it this way u can go shoot and either submit the form 1 and then make it an sbr.... or not. They seem to have upped their game. So, are you allowed to shoulder them, now? Is that even a concern? I have no idea. SBRs give me no concern. I carry one of my pinned 14.5s to other states, now that I can. In AK, I only had a country to carry into 
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Posted: 2/11/2018 3:33:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, are you allowed to shoulder them, now? |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 3:33:43 PM EDT
[#30]
If you just want a shorty to shoot on the range.... go pistol.
Want something that you can have forever go SBR. The benefit of a SBR you can have a true shorty. And what stock/brace and whether you can shoulder it or not. Does not depend on who is in charge at ATF and higher levels current interpretation. Where I live the Sheriff has to approve SBR, currently he loves all things guns but.... Next election, there is a not so friendly towards guns guy running so ability to get SBR could be non-exists in the future where I live. And SBR not allowed for defense. Research your SBR laws in your State then decide. 
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Posted: 2/11/2018 3:34:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Do both. That’s what I did, and that’s the ARFcom way. I’ve got a pistol lower for traveling and all that shit, and I’m waiting on a form 1 for an SBR Lower. With all the braces these days, it’s somewhat hard for most people to justify an sbr.
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Posted: 2/11/2018 3:40:29 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It comes down to if you wanna throw the gov $200. Here's the catch, of you want a super sturdy brace, you're paying $220. Also, if SHTF ever does happen all laws are basically going out the window and there are other options for the pistol upper if need be. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 3:45:11 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. It is not an opinion, it is fact. There's a letter written by ATF(?) that details what is considered a pistol stock and what is allowed in its usage. Maybe someone will link it. Basically it stated that a pistol stock, whether shouldered or not, does not make it into something other than a pistol stock. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 3:45:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://i.imgur.com/F8aC0po.jpg |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 3:47:07 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ATF letter opinions change all the time. Just because it's good now doesn't mean it will always be good. We are talking about the government here.
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Posted: 2/11/2018 3:47:53 PM EDT
[#36]
I tossed around the idea of going the SBR route but I just didn't want to deal with the limitations and hassles, or what I perceive as limitations and hassles. I use the Shockwave Blades on my two pistols and am quite happy with the decision to go that route. I just don't care to do the whole tax stamp thing, then the wait, then reporting when I cross state lines with my gun. It's too much involvement in my life. If you are ok with the SBR route, then to each his own.
As for the Blade being uncomfortable to shoot...that's not true. It's not as nice as a real stock, but it's certainly not uncomfortable, even when I use the Echo mode. My only concern with using the Blade would be an uninformed LEO, who doesn't know the law, and takes what he thinks are appropriate actions for an illegal weapon. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 3:51:05 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which is why I do not trust them with my personal firearm information. https://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 3:52:38 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice weapon, and it looks like it is well-used. I love the looks of wear marks on firearms. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 3:55:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I tossed around the idea of going the SBR route but I just didn't want to deal with the limitations and hassles, or what I perceive as limitations and hassles. I use the Shockwave Blades on my two pistols and am quite happy with the decision to go that route. I just don't care to do the whole tax stamp thing, then the wait, then reporting when I cross state lines with my gun. It's too much involvement in my life. If you are ok with the SBR route, then to each his own. As for the Blade being uncomfortable to shoot...that's not true. It's not as nice as a real stock, but it's certainly not uncomfortable, even when I use the Echo mode. My only concern with using the Blade would be an uninformed LEO, who doesn't know the law, and takes what he thinks are appropriate actions for an illegal weapon. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 3:56:37 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which is why I do not trust them with my personal firearm information. https://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif Here’s the bottom line: current braces are designed to skirt the SBR law. I’m all for that and want millions of people to enjoy short ARs as that is their right. The NFA should be repealed but as of right now we have rules to play by. However, one day the ATF could wake up and change their mind on braces just as they’ve done so many times before. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 4:02:15 PM EDT
[#41]
I personally think SBR's are head and shoulders better than AR pistols. Even after the wait and the cost it's worth it.
Completely adjustable stock is golden. It still qualifies as a pistol under my state laws for carry purposes. People who are unwilling to jump through the hoops are jealous! That makes it all worth while. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 4:02:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not worried about that. I have a passport and global entry etc along with quite a few NFA items. They know who I am and there’s nothing to stop them from really wanting to know you if they think there is justification. Here’s the bottom line: current braces are designed to skirt the SBR law. I’m all for that and want millions of people to enjoy short ARs as that is their right. The NFA should be repealed but as of right now we have rules to play by. However, one day the ATF could wake up and change their mind on braces just as they’ve done so many times before. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 4:04:08 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like the bum fire stocks. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 4:38:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Everytime I saw my brace it made me think of the stupid laws that make me have that ugly compromise contraption on there in the first place. Everytime I looked at it I thought how it would look much better with a real stock. That alone was worth $200 bucks to me.
I do have a pistol lower so I could carry it in my car but I honestly never do that so I haven’t even used that lower since I got my stamp back. Probably end up selling the brace and just building it into a normal lower. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 4:41:17 PM EDT
[#45]
I've got a number of both, different tools for different jobs. (I just can't seem to have a complete upper laying around.)
Around the state I have no worries, we allow any and all manner of loaded firearm in your vehicle, CCW holder or not via our expanded castle doctrine, if it's legal to have in your house it's legal to have in your vehicle (I call THAT "sensible gun laws") I wasn't always afforded this un-infriged right, So I left (california) for greener pastures. I guess it's all about what's important to you. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 4:52:43 PM EDT
[#46]
For those who have already done SBR's I can understand the reasons for thinking they are better. With all the braces to choose from now and some of them being in line with even the best stocks in most any aspect a SBR makes little sense now. If you owned a SBR before all the braces came about then good for you, suck it up and count it as what you needed to do at the time.
If you want a short barrel AR nowadays just get a nice brace and go shooting. Pistols= Considered pistols and therefor benefit from all the bonuses of such. Big difference for many people. No waiting. No paperwork or Hassles now or in the future from the ATF. Can quickly and easily be sold. Does the same exact thing as a SBR but can also be shot comfortably one handed if desired. Saves $200 that can be used toward buying a brace. Does not condone or contribute to the ATF / NFA. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 4:58:56 PM EDT
[#47]
If you're going to leave it out next to your bed or in your car trunk or something, then I'd leave it as a pistol. Don't want an NFA item getting stolen or going to the evidence locker. Otherwise I'd SBR it. But yeah know it can start it's life off as a pistol first while you wait.
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Posted: 2/11/2018 5:14:39 PM EDT
[#48]
I can see both sides. I live in a free state so SBR all the things.
Do what makes you happy. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 5:22:52 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unfortunately for you it still is true being uncomfortable to shoot. You may not feel that way but it still doesn't change how I feel and neither does it make it any less true or not. If a person says it's uncomfortable, then it's true. Why are you so concerned about how another person relates their experience about it? In my experience, as well as those that I know who have shot the Blade, it's not uncomfortable. I go off that. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 5:30:18 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not unfortunate for me. I'm not concerned, but you're overly sensitive because you're making a big deal about me voicing my opinion. Ironically, that's what you're accusing me of. In my experience, as well as those that I know who have shot the Blade, it's not uncomfortable. I go off that. So in my experience and with another who owns one, and he has agreed that it's not as comfortable as an actual stock. I'm going with what my experience is and not with someone else's experiences. It's as simple as that. |
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