Ammo Price Trends (Historical Charts) ~ updated 4/15/2007 - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ammo Price Trends (Historical Charts) ~ updated 4/15/2007 (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 12/14/2006 4:32:28 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Let me just say this. The .223 and 7.62x39 prices are being pushed up by the dealers.
Note that the ammo manufactured years ago is going up. Can't blame the rise in metals on that.

No, but it CAN be blamed on there being less of it on the market. There are also these little things called armies and governments placing orders for billions of rounds. Something about wars going on.

Also, note that PISTOL ammo has really not risen at all. So what does that tell you?

That there's a bigger market for rifle ammo, and less available production as a ratio?

Just refuse to pay the high prices for the rifle ammo and the market will force the prices down.

I'm sure 83 million gun owners will all agree to that astounding brilliance.

Remember the internet bubble in the market and the tulip craze? This is THE SAME THING.

Intangible assets and pop culture?

I have enough ammo for a while and I AN NOT BUYING the hype.

After all, who needs to practice?

You shouldn't either. The argument that metal prices are up does not fly. First, it is not true across the board.

www.kitcometals.com/, yes, it is. Any more theories?

And the evidence is to the contrary as I just portrayed. LOOK IT UP.

Are you trying to convince yourself? Because you're not convincing me.

Posted: 12/14/2006 4:52:15 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
This looks like the golden age to me.

You want to make bullets out of GOLD now? I know ammo is up a tick or two, but DAMN!

Posted: 12/14/2006 7:31:46 AM EDT

[#3]

Explain why ammo manufactured 1-5 or more years ago is up in price.

Posted: 12/14/2006 7:54:02 AM EDT

[#4]

Nice job. Thank you for all the work you put into it. Gas and Ammo are both in heavy demand in the global market.

Posted: 12/14/2006 1:57:04 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Explain why ammo manufactured 1-5 or more years ago is up in price.

If you shoot a round today purchased 5 years ago, you replace it at today's price, whether it was made 5 years ago or yesterday. There is virtually no difference in quality so both command the same price.

Posted: 1/1/2007 8:46:49 AM EDT

[#6]

botm - Happy New Year!

Posted: 1/1/2007 2:58:19 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Isn't gold really high right now?

No, the dollar is very low right now. From 1792 until 1933, Twenty dollars was .9675 ounces of pure gold plus one part in ten of copper for durability. Today, twenty dollars is worth about 0.0325 ounces of gold.

Posted: 1/1/2007 3:30:36 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Isn't gold really high right now?

No, the dollar is very low right now. From 1792 until 1933, Twenty dollars was .9675 ounces of pure gold plus one part in ten of copper for durability. Today, twenty dollars is worth about 0.0325 ounces of gold.

For those interested in further research, refer to The Coinage Act of 1792 (The Mint Act) (section 9 defines the dollar, etc.,.).

“DOLLARS OR UNITS – each to be of the value of a Spanish milled dollar as the same is now current, and to contain three hundred and seventy-one grains and four sixteenth parts of a grain of pure silver, or four hundred and sixteen grains of standard silver.”

The above legislation has never been repealed.

There is no mention of paper Federal Reserve Notes circulating as the currency – only silver and gold coins are declared acceptable as legal tender.

Posted: 1/2/2007 5:01:39 AM EDT

[#9]

Paje-Whilst not directly repealed, the law establishing Gold, Silver and Platinum Eagles as legal tender coins arguably supercedes this 1792 law. One ounce of .999 fine silver equals a dollar. There are fifty dollars in one ounce of .999 fine gold and one hundred dollars in one ounce of .999 fine platinum.

Ron Paul's latest:

The World's Reserve Currency

by Ron Paul

The financial press reported last week that the euro, the new currency created only five years ago and used by most European nations, has supplanted the U.S. dollar as the most widely used form of cash internationally. There are now more Euros in circulation worldwide than dollars.

This alone is not necessarily troubling, as the dollar remains the world’s most important reserve currency. About 65% of foreign central bank exchange reserves are still held in dollars, versus only about 25% in euros. And the European Central Bank faces the same inflationary pressures that our own Federal Reserve Bank Governors face, including a growing entitlement burden that threatens economic ruin as both societies age. European politicians want to spend money just as badly as American politicians, and undoubtedly will clamor to inflate – and thus devalue – the euro to fund their creaky social welfare systems.

Still, the rise of the Euro internationally is another sign that the U.S. dollar is not what it used to be. There is increasing pressure on nations to buy and sell oil in euros, and anecdotal evidence suggests that drug dealers and money launderers now prefer euros to dollars. Historically, the underground cash economy has always sought the most stable and valuable paper currency to conduct business.

More importantly, our greatest benefactors for the last twenty years – Asian central banks – have lost their appetite for holding U.S. dollars. China, Japan, and Asia in general have been happy to hold U.S. debt instruments in recent decades, but they will not prop up our spending habits forever. Foreign central banks understand that American leaders do not have the discipline to maintain a stable currency. When the rest of the world finally abandons the dollar as the global reserve currency, both Congress and American consumers will find borrowing money a more expensive proposition.

Remember, America can maintain a large trade deficit only if foreign banks continue to hold large numbers of dollars as their reserve currency. Our entire consumption economy is based on the willingness of foreigners to hold U.S. debt. We face a reordering of the entire world economy if the federal government cannot print, borrow, and spend money at a rate that satisfies its endless appetite for deficit spending.

At some point Americans must realize that Congress, and the Federal Reserve system that permits the creation of new money by fiat, are the real culprits in the erosion of your personal savings and buying power. Congress relentlessly spends more than the Treasury collects in taxes each year, which means the U.S. government must either borrow or print money to operate – both of which cause the value of the dollar to drop. When we borrow a billion dollars every day simply to run the government, and when the Federal Reserve increases the money supply by trillions of dollars in just 15 years, we hardly can expect our dollars to increase in value.

January 2, 2007

Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul358.html

Posted: 1/20/2007 1:10:21 PM EDT

[#10]

botm

Quoted:
Paje-Whilst not directly repealed, the law establishing Gold, Silver and Platinum Eagles as legal tender coins arguably supercedes [sic] this 1792 law.

The Constitution precedes all other legislative acts and can not be superseded absent the amendment process.

Article 1, Section 8:
The Congress shall have Power . . . To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin . . . ; To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States . . . .

Article 1, Section 10:
No State shall . . . coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts....

That being said, when the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Hepburn v. Griswold in Knox v. Lee they laid the foundation for "implied power" interpretations. A disgrace, to which, in a separate dissenting opinion, Justice Stephen J. Field pointed out the obvious:

The power “to coin money” is, in my judgment, inconsistent with and repugnant to the existence of a power to make anything but coin a legal tender. To coin money is to mould metallic substances having intrinsic value into certain forms convenient for commerce, and to impress them with the stamp of the government indicating their value. Coins are pieces of metal, of definite weight and value, thus stamped by national authority. Such is the natural import of the terms “to coin money” and “coin;” . . ..

... The power to coin money is, therefore, a power to fabricate coins out of metal as money, and thus make them a legal tender for their declared values as indicated by their stamp. If this be the true import and meaning of the language used, it is difficult to see how Congress can make the paper of the government a legal tender.

Field placed the constitutional issue in a historical context:

The statesmen who framed the Constitution understood this principle as well as it is understood in our day. They had seen in the experience of the Revolutionary period the demoralizing tendency, the cruel injustice, and the intolerable oppression of a paper currency not convertible on demand into money, and forced into circulation by legal tender provisions and penal enactments.

I think we're witnessing the ramifications of this folly. But I digress...

Posted: 1/20/2007 5:08:18 PM EDT

[#11]

I understand what you are saying about legal tender laws; however, these statutes arguably change the 1792 Act by making one ounce .999 silver a dollar, one ounce .999 fine gold fifty dollars and one ounce .999 fine platinum one hundred dollars.

You might find this helpful: The Federal War on Gold.

Posted: 1/20/2007 7:41:25 PM EDT

[#12]

Great thread! Thanks.

Am I the only one who thinks that raising the minimum wage is simply accelerating the decline of the value of the US dollar?

Obviously, everything will cost more, thereby creating demand for a subsequent rise in the minimum wage, and making US made goods (not many left) even less competitive on the world market.

All it does is make poor working folks feel good temporarily until the price of everything goes up. (Folks on fixed income take a hit.)

I would like to see the Republicans pre-empt the Democrats and propose a $50 minimum wage.

A Big Mac would suddenly cost folks $20.

It would illustrate the stupidity and futility of the minimum wage concept.

All it does is feed inflation.

Posted: 1/29/2007 12:00:34 PM EDT

[#13]

Great data. The value of the dollar is declining. With no end in sight for deficit spending by our elected representative official I say the average Joe is getting screwed. BUY GUNS

Gold won't kill the zombies although silver might work on werewolves so.....

Posted: 2/9/2007 6:46:23 PM EDT

[#14]

botm

There is a well-known law of currency, that notes or promises to pay, unless made conveniently and promptly convertible into coin at the will of the holder, can never, except under unusual and abnormal conditions, be at par in circulation with coin. It is an equally well-known law, that depreciation of notes must increase with the increase of the quantity put in circulation and the diminution of confidence in the ability or disposition to redeem. Their appreciation follows the reversal of these conditions. No act making them a legal tender can change materially the operation of these laws. - Hepburn v. Griswold, 1869

Posted: 2/10/2007 4:05:16 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Great data. The value of the dollar is declining. With no end in sight for deficit spending by our elected representative official I say the average Joe is getting screwed. BUY ~~GUNS~~AMMO

Gold won't kill the zombies although silver might work on werewolves so.....

Fixed it for ya'. Guns don't kill zombies; ammo kills zombies!

Posted: 2/10/2007 9:52:29 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Great data. The value of the dollar is declining. With no end in sight for deficit spending by our elected representative official I say the average Joe is getting screwed. BUY ~~GUNS~~AMMO

Gold won't kill the zombies although silver might work on werewolves so.....

Fixed it for ya'. Guns don't kill zombies; ammo kills zombies!

Thanx Well shoot buy both

Posted: 3/21/2007 8:18:46 PM EDT

[#17]

botm

Posted: 3/21/2007 9:17:16 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
botm

I would think at some point during SHTF that ammo would be worth more than gold.

Posted: 3/21/2007 9:31:22 PM EDT

[#19]

That is great.

Posted: 3/21/2007 10:55:16 PM EDT

[#20]

Glad I picked up some Xm193 when I did

Posted: 3/22/2007 4:49:03 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

I would think at some point during SHTF that ammo would be worth more than gold.

Probably true. However, after SHTF (it will end and we shall overcome), your federal reserve notes will only be good for toilet paper.

Posted: 3/22/2007 5:22:20 AM EDT

[#22]

Thanks for the web site !

Posted: 3/24/2007 7:53:01 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
When are the Democrats going to step in and investigate these outrageous prices? We need some sort of controls on ammo prices now!

Price controls only lead to SHORTAGES. Today, there is really no shortage of ammo if you have money. With price controls, there is soon no product no matter how much money you have.

Posted: 3/24/2007 1:36:51 PM EDT

[#24]

the big three control ammo prices (Rem, Win Fed) nobody else. it could go up for a variety of reasons (raw materials, contracts, shortages).

If their new ammo is worth $300, then the second tier companies (by power not quality-IMI, FNM, S&B, Fiocchi, Privi, Black Hills) base their price say $280, then importers price their surplus (say RG, Guat, Adcom, Malaysian) @$250.

The only way to change prices of imports and the 2nd tier (non big three), is for the big three to lower their prices. If the big guys don't change their price, nobody else will either. Ammo markup for manufacturers has always been very low due to competition, but in the currant situation XYZ company can sell as much as they want at whatever price they want, because thats the market.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DEALERS, AND HOARDING,

the price of ammo is high because of the big three say it is.

Posted: 4/15/2007 6:33:10 PM EDT

[#25]

btt

xm193 & q3131 100% out of stock

eta quote ~>

"The United States dollar index has dropped below 82 today. We would do well to remember that the index is just a measure of the USD strength in relation to other currencies. It is sort of like measuring the USD with a rubber yardstick. While all currencies are racing to zero the USD just got a little ahead of the others. Check out www.coinflation.com and scroll down until you get to the current melt value of US coins. Notice a nickel is now worth over 9 cents. It seems that the USD has devalued faster than the US mint can cheapen its coins. A safe investment today is to simply trade federal reserve notes for nickels at your local bank and make an immediate profit of 80%. While some people may remind you that it is illegal to melt US coinage, just remember the pre-1965 silver coinage. They do not have to be melted to be worth more than their face value. It will not be long before this little bargain disappears. Take advantage of this easy money while you can. It is just one more example of how fast the USD is devaluing before our eyes."

Posted: 4/20/2007 9:06:10 PM EDT

[#26]

I disagree, the entire problem and reason for all the inflation is the caused by the illegal Fed created in 1913 and the out of control fractional reserve banking that has been going on for almost 100 years. Do you understand that every single cash dollar in circulation and in peoples checking accounts is owed to some bank? That is NOT the way our money system is supposed to work. Its completely unconstitutional.

Posted: 4/21/2007 6:07:50 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Let me just say this. The .223 and 7.62x39 prices are being pushed up by the dealers.
Note that the ammo manufactured years ago is going up. Can't blame the rise in metals on that.

Let me ask you this...If you were an entity sitting on a million rounds of surplus ammo that was made for 2 cents a round 30 years ago, and you see equivalent ammo selling for 30 cents a round. Are you going to be selling it for 2 cents a round, or 30 cents a round?

I can't understand why it's so hard for people to understand that concept.

Posted: 4/21/2007 6:58:13 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Let me just say this. The .223 and 7.62x39 prices are being pushed up by the dealers.
Note that the ammo manufactured years ago is going up. Can't blame the rise in metals on that.

Let me ask you this...If you were an entity sitting on a million rounds of surplus ammo that was made for 2 cents a round 30 years ago, and you see equivalent ammo selling for 30 cents a round. Are you going to be selling it for 2 cents a round, or 30 cents a round?

I can't understand why it's so hard for people to understand that concept.

Neither, I'd sell it for .24 cents a round, undercut the new ammo prices and clean up!

Posted: 5/2/2007 6:13:03 AM EDT

[#29]

height=8

Quoted:
btt

xm193 & q3131 100% out of stock

eta quote ~> height=8

"The United States dollar index has dropped below 82 today. We would do well to remember that the index is just a measure of the USD strength in relation to other currencies. It is sort of like measuring the USD with a rubber yardstick. While all currencies are racing to zero the USD just got a little ahead of the others. Check out www.coinflation.com and scroll down until you get to the current melt value of US coins. Notice a nickel is now worth over 9 cents. It seems that the USD has devalued faster than the US mint can cheapen its coins. A safe investment today is to simply trade federal reserve notes for nickels at your local bank and make an immediate profit of 80%. While some people may remind you that it is illegal to melt US coinage, just remember the pre-1965 silver coinage. They do not have to be melted to be worth more than their face value. It will not be long before this little bargain disappears. Take advantage of this easy money while you can. It is just one more example of how fast the USD is devaluing before our eyes."

I appreciate the thought behind this idea, but I'd ask how one could exploit this to make a profit in real life? Due to their relatively low starting value vs. their size and weight, you would have to buy a LOT of nickel coins to make this worthwhile. Once you've done so, are you (or the original writer) suggesting the coins be held as one would hold gold coins, as a precious metal investment? Again, how would you ever convert the five-cent piece into 9 cents or whatever its value was at the time you wanted to convert?

Posted: 5/2/2007 9:00:18 AM EDT

[#30]

So after reading this is the statement "We're Fucked" appropriate.

Posted: 5/2/2007 10:27:46 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

I appreciate the thought behind this idea, but I'd ask how one could exploit this to make a profit in real life? Due to their relatively low starting value vs. their size and weight, you would have to buy a LOT of nickel coins to make this worthwhile. Once you've done so, are you (or the original writer) suggesting the coins be held as one would hold gold coins, as a precious metal investment? Again, how would you ever convert the five-cent piece into 9 cents or whatever its value was at the time you wanted to convert?

I add these quotes occasionally as examples of many analysts who are noting how messed the economy truly is. Not so much for advice. Whether this 80% 'immediate' profit technique is worthwhile is, of course, a personal decision. I think the profit conversion (without melting) would have to wait for revaluation sometime after the coins are re-issued in aluminum or some other cheaper base metal. Look at the pre-1965 silver coins for historical precedent.

Regards,
Paje

Posted: 6/19/2007 8:31:46 AM EDT

[#32]

Paje-When is the next chart update coming?

Posted: 6/19/2007 9:26:56 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Those shiney rocks.... you cant just make them outta thin air.

I know what you are saying... as one poster exemplified it "the price of gold has gone up"

I agree that rare metals have value because of the lack of their availability, but I argue that although rare, they have no actual valuable use.

"The price of gold has gone up" or it's value has stayed the same and inflation has risen.

Gold is used in electronics and other industrial process so there is a valuable use.

Posted: 6/21/2007 5:59:08 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Paje-When is the next chart update coming?

I would do it any time but, every time I check all I see is "OUT OF STOCK".

Like today, only one vendor on one line of ammo has it in stock. No data makes for one boring chart!

(& doing charts on published pricing for those out of stock skews the data as some have very old pricing and haven't actually stocked the ammo in ages).

Posted: 6/22/2007 4:17:07 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Charts updated (weekly).

I think the USD$ is really starting to show it's weakness.

<center><table width=85% border=0><tr><td width=100% class=textQuote><hr height=1px color=black noshade>"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon. To control inflation, you need to control the money supply" - Dr. Milton Friedman<hr height=1px color=black noshade>

safehaven.com/images/saxena/5150_a.pngsafehaven.com/images/saxena/5150_b.png

Expect Ammo prices to respond accordingly.

Witness the onset of FIAT currency...

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ammo Price Trends (Historical Charts) ~ updated 4/15/2007 (Page 2 of 2)

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