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Posted: 1/18/2018 2:42:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was locally fabbed in the USAF gunsmith shop Medina Annex, Lackland AFB. They've been used for decades. |
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Posted: 1/18/2018 2:49:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are they still in use? Is the tool a "top secret" or something? I'm just surprised that it took the OP posting this thread for the beans to be spilled on a tool that has been out there for decades. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It was locally fabbed in the USAF gunsmith shop Medina Annex, Lackland AFB. They've been used for decades. |
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Posted: 1/18/2018 2:50:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GHPorter, that sketchy building is a re-purposed hardened munitions maintenance and storage building. |
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Posted: 1/18/2018 2:52:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, mind posting this over in the retro section. If you'd be willing to loan it out, I suspect someone in that forum would be interested in getting it in hand for exact measurements and might turn a batch or two out...John Thomas, NoDak,ect. |
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Posted: 1/18/2018 7:22:19 PM EDT
[#5]
I missed this post somehow.
Imagine how much easier barrel installs would be with the barrel in this position! I would LOVE to have one of these on my bench! |
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Posted: 1/18/2018 7:37:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Imagine how much easier barrel installs would be with the barrel in this position! The tool shown here mounted to a workbench would be awesome 
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Posted: 1/18/2018 8:11:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Here is the lonely dejected mock up that I started. It needs refining and some final locations determined. The hole for the extension wrench plug weld is not yet added and I believe that the wrench may need shortened??
Locations will need to be determined with a barreled upper in position on the extension wrench and spot welded. And hopefully, heat distortion is minimal during weld off. I gotta find some time. 
Oh, and a radius key needs machined and attatched to the wrench. (Is THAT all!?) Ha. It's just a matter of time.... 
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Posted: 1/18/2018 8:30:48 PM EDT
[#8]
I worked there in '94. When I retired in '13 it was still in the same building on Medina.
As far as not being made by some manufacturer I can't speak to beyond maybe being a little costly to manufacture. Even after using them I'd still just use standard hinged receiver blocks for my purposes and budget. |
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Posted: 1/18/2018 8:50:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here is the lonely dejected mock up that I started. It needs refining and some final locations determined. The hole for the extension wrench plug weld is not yet added and I believe that the wrench may need shortened?? Locations will need to be determined with a barreled upper in position on the extension wrench and spot welded. And hopefully, heat distortion is minimal during weld off. I gotta find some time.
Oh, and a radius key needs machined and attatched to the wrench. (Is THAT all!?) Ha. It's just a matter of time.... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/416992/20171219_082634_1513695613606_001-395124-424753.jpg Really, another hour and a half or so worth of solid work would probably get it. It's lookin' good so far. Let me know how much when you're done. 
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Posted: 1/18/2018 8:51:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GHPorter, that sketchy building is a re-purposed hardened munitions maintenance and storage building. Oh, and when we got ready for inspections, we never dumped stuff in ponds or that sort of thing. Of course I have no idea why the Assistant NCOIC’s trunk would be super full of whatever wound up in there, because I never had anything to do with that... |
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Posted: 1/18/2018 10:56:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nice. A piece of square key stock about 7/16" wide should work when welded to the extension tool. I'm guessing that's about the width of the charging handle slot in the upper. 6.0" OAL x .440"w x .550"h are the rough numbers scribbled on my toolbox. 
I'm thinking that all corners on contact surfaces will need to be smoothed as well so as to not damage the ano. I've talked to a pal about Cerakote/powder coating also, just haven't hooked up with him for a few weeks. As usual, big plans.... |
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Posted: 1/19/2018 1:34:04 PM EDT
[#12]
@NoMoAMMO
Can you see how much the center post actually engages the barrel extension? From the photos you have here:  Attached File Attached FileIt almost looks like there's no engagement of the barrel extension. Happen to have a striped upper you can drop on there and take a photo from the barrel end? @Tigwelder1971 You posted a photo of the brownells AR15/AR10 tool. I might be envisioning this the wrong way, but wouldn't the added length of the AR10 receiver make the engagement lugs for the AR10 barrel pretty much unusable once you weld it to the jig? Given the price, I guess it's probably the best option but just curious if your plans would allow for it to work with an AR10 upper. |
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Posted: 1/19/2018 1:56:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Brownells has two separate barrel extension tools, one for the AR15 and one for the AR10. I don't think that they are cross compatible.
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Posted: 1/19/2018 1:59:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@NoMoAMMO Can you see how much the center post actually engages the barrel extension? From the photos you have here: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56078/IMG_2006-394782.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56078/IMG_2007-394783.JPG It almost looks like there's no engagement of the barrel extension. Happen to have a striped upper you can drop on there and take a photo from the barrel end? @Tigwelder1971 You posted a photo of the brownells AR15/AR10 tool. I might be envisioning this the wrong way, but wouldn't the added length of the AR10 receiver make the engagement lugs for the AR10 barrel pretty much unusable once you weld it to the jig? Given the price, I guess it's probably the best option but just curious if your plans would allow for it to work with an AR10 upper. |
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Posted: 1/19/2018 2:04:36 PM EDT
[#15]
In my mind I envision full engagement into the extension. And that's how I intend to fab one.
If mounted rigid (welded) I see full/near full engagement on 5.56 and partial engagement on AR10. Sharing between platforms was never an intent honestly here. Also, the machined recess for the FA was missed by me originally. That will need addressed as well. Maybe not an issue with standard A2 round head? |
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Posted: 1/19/2018 2:05:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Brownells has two separate barrel extension tools, one for the AR15 and one for the AR10. I don't think that they are cross compatible. I have zero experience with the AR10 platform. |
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Posted: 1/19/2018 3:45:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did not realize this. I have zero experience with the AR10 platform. Nothing specific about the AR10. |
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Posted: 1/19/2018 9:40:01 PM EDT
[#18]
@Tigwelder1971
Take a look at these photos:  Attached File Attached FileVS Attached File Attached FileIt maybe worth modifying the plates to allow flat top uppers to fully seat in the jig. I believe it could be modified in a way that would work for both A1/A2/M4 type lowers. The relief pocket that you mentioned over looking will probably be needed for the flat top upper once it can fully seat in the jig. As to the aforementioned center post that engages the barrel extension from Brownells, I originally thought that they made a unit that worked in both AR15's and AR10's. They list two different tools: AR15 Tool AR10(DPMS/KAC/LaRue/PA10/AeroM5 Format) Tool Sorry for introducing the confusion there. There are some models on the market that are AR15/1AR10 compatible, such as the Kely Zion($60 but it's from that vendor we can't mention...B0+@(h ) or the Knights Armament Co KAC Barrel Extension Action Wrench ($81 if you can find it in stock and may or may not work with non-KAC barrel extensions depending on what you read). Looks like keeping it AR15 specific would be best. |
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Posted: 1/19/2018 10:07:45 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 1/19/2018 10:08:45 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 1/19/2018 10:11:56 PM EDT
[#21]
I think I might try to find somebody to mill some channels in the supports to clear the flat top overhang.
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Posted: 1/19/2018 11:02:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think I might try to find somebody to mill some channels in the supports to clear the flat top overhang.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/20/2018 12:42:37 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@Tigwelder1971 Take a look at these photos: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56078/IMG_2005-394687.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56078/IMG_2004-394686.JPG VS https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56078/IMG_2007-394783.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56078/IMG_2008-394784.JPG It maybe worth modifying the plates to allow flat top uppers to fully seat in the jig. I believe it could be modified in a way that would work for both A1/A2/M4 type lowers. The relief pocket that you mentioned over looking will probably be needed for the flat top upper once it can fully seat in the jig. As to the aforementioned center post that engages the barrel extension from Brownells, I originally thought that they made a unit that worked in both AR15's and AR10's. They list two different tools: AR15 Tool AR10(DPMS/KAC/LaRue/PA10/AeroM5 Format) Tool Sorry for introducing the confusion there. There are some models on the market that are AR15/1AR10 compatible, such as the Kely Zion($60 but it's from that vendor we can't mention...B0+@(h ) or the Knights Armament Co KAC Barrel Extension Action Wrench ($81 if you can find it in stock and may or may not work with non-KAC barrel extensions depending on what you read). Looks like keeping it AR15 specific would be best. First, it appears that if the "ears" were moved further apart, that would allow the flat top upper to seat further onto the splines of the extension wrench. 
The bad is, doing so would allow the FA to bottom out into the lower plate. The recess milled into the plate allows for clearance in that area for teardrop assists, if the upper dropped down more contact would be made. 
I'm guessing that it was designed this way with those factors in mind? So....my theory of possibly shortening the wrench are probably void. |
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Posted: 1/20/2018 12:46:15 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think I might try to find somebody to mill some channels in the supports to clear the flat top overhang. If you would, can we get a dimension from the bottom of the base plate to the top of the extension wrench please? Also, can you get an accurate measurement of how far the splines engage the barrel extension? Mucho appreciated. 
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Posted: 1/20/2018 12:49:56 AM EDT
[#25]
First, it appears that if the "ears" were moved further apart, that would allow the flat top upper to seat further onto the splines of the extension wrench. The width needs to stay the same to properly hold the exterior of the upper. You'll need to take a set of calipers to them to compare, but I'm thinking that the width of the flat top upper below the rail section is the same as the width of the A1/A2 uppers where the carry handle meets the same area of the upper. |
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Posted: 1/20/2018 12:10:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is no one else wondering why someone would chuck one of these in a pond?.........? The MSET, LSET, Compliance Team, (guys from D.C.) are coming. MAKE THIS GO AWAY!!! “But saaarge I thought you meant permanently.....” With the assumption that AF Regs/instruction for Aircraft maintence are simuliar to armorers. Approved special tools are submitted through the AF suggestion/improvement program= (Lots of paper work and any jerk in the process can shut it down) Once approved (6months to a year sometimes) the drawings will be added to the appropriate T.O. .next change. Or through emergency TCTO (time compliance technical Order) If it’s not in the manual (common hand tolls exempt) it’s not approved. If it’s commercially available it’s considered common. Note: To make things even more complicated, sometimes the Air Force uses Army manuals / joint AF, Army manuals. Dual use FM / T.O.s This could take years to get a Manual change “maybe it will get approved at the next working group conference in 10 to 20 years” And if it doesn’t affect a certain dollar amount, cost/man hours (or safety) it may go to the bottom of the pile. |
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Posted: 1/20/2018 7:28:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Prettt much this. ^^^^ 6.0" OAL x .440"w x .550"h are the rough numbers scribbled on my toolbox.
I'm thinking that all corners on contact surfaces will need to be smoothed as well so as to not damage the ano. I've talked to a pal about Cerakote/powder coating also, just haven't hooked up with him for a few weeks. As usual, big plans.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Nice. A piece of square key stock about 7/16" wide should work when welded to the extension tool. I'm guessing that's about the width of the charging handle slot in the upper. 6.0" OAL x .440"w x .550"h are the rough numbers scribbled on my toolbox.
I'm thinking that all corners on contact surfaces will need to be smoothed as well so as to not damage the ano. I've talked to a pal about Cerakote/powder coating also, just haven't hooked up with him for a few weeks. As usual, big plans.... |
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Posted: 1/20/2018 7:32:13 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As a Cerakoter, I would recommend powdercoating it if that's an option. For this particular application it would be much better suited. |
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Posted: 1/20/2018 7:33:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@Tigwelder1971 Take a look at these photos: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56078/IMG_2005-394687.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56078/IMG_2004-394686.JPG VS https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56078/IMG_2007-394783.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56078/IMG_2008-394784.JPG It maybe worth modifying the plates to allow flat top uppers to fully seat in the jig. I believe it could be modified in a way that would work for both A1/A2/M4 type lowers. The relief pocket that you mentioned over looking will probably be needed for the flat top upper once it can fully seat in the jig. As to the aforementioned center post that engages the barrel extension from Brownells, I originally thought that they made a unit that worked in both AR15's and AR10's. They list two different tools: AR15 Tool AR10(DPMS/KAC/LaRue/PA10/AeroM5 Format) Tool Sorry for introducing the confusion there. There are some models on the market that are AR15/1AR10 compatible, such as the Kely Zion($60 but it's from that vendor we can't mention...B0+@(h ) or the Knights Armament Co KAC Barrel Extension Action Wrench ($81 if you can find it in stock and may or may not work with non-KAC barrel extensions depending on what you read). Looks like keeping it AR15 specific would be best.
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Posted: 1/22/2018 9:22:33 AM EDT
[#30]
I'll get the measurements this week. I would have done it this weekend but I decided to break my foot instead so that put a damper on my plans
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Posted: 1/22/2018 7:33:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All kinds of shit ends up in ponds. Hammers,boat motors, pistols, and a swing set among the finds here. 
It might be good to have the rod welded to a steel block that could be easily grabbed in a heavy bench vise. That is, replace the plate base with a thicker block so you could either bolt it to a bench OR grab it in a vise. That is a really neat fixture. |
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Posted: 1/22/2018 8:05:46 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll get the measurements this week. I would have done it this weekend but I decided to break my foot instead so that put a damper on my plans Seriously, hope your foot gets better quick. |
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Posted: 1/22/2018 8:14:54 PM EDT
[#33]
Wow! What a find!
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Posted: 1/28/2018 5:19:00 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 1/28/2018 5:21:34 PM EDT
[#35]
@tigwelder1971 @wangstang let me know if yall need anything else
 Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 6:44:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@tigwelder1971 @wangstang let me know if yall need anything else https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/56078/IMG_2112-434165.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/56078/IMG_2111-434166.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/56078/IMG_2110-434167.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/56078/IMG_2109-434168.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/56078/IMG_2108-434169.JPG |
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Posted: 2/9/2018 11:56:54 AM EDT
[#37]
Any chance to get some additional specs or measurements on this?
I have a buddy who can weld and would love to make one if possible... Thank you! |
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Posted: 2/9/2018 3:34:15 PM EDT
[#38]
I meant to post this a while back but forgot.
Is that the jig they used to modfiy A1s to A2s? Any CATM dudes who were around for that? |
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Posted: 2/9/2018 3:57:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any chance to get some additional specs or measurements on this? I have a buddy who can weld and would love to make one if possible... Thank you! |
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Posted: 2/9/2018 10:11:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I meant to post this a while back but forgot. Is that the jig they used to modfiy A1s to A2s? Any CATM dudes who were around for that? |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:40:56 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All of the “upgrade” A2s at Lackland were modified to A2 status by first changing out the FCG (and changing the markings on the lower), then slapping a complete A2 upper on them. I would assume that Kelly’s M16s were upgraded the same way. In other words, this upgrade didn’t require any barrel work - just changing out the upper. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I meant to post this a while back but forgot. Is that the jig they used to modfiy A1s to A2s? Any CATM dudes who were around for that? |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:51:39 AM EDT
[#42]
When our A1's at Lakenheath were upgraded to A2 they just put complete A2 uppers on the A1 lowers with A2 stocks, swapped fcg for burst and then took an engraver and scratched out auto and added burst.
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Posted: 2/10/2018 11:39:45 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was meaning that to changeout the upper requires a barrel removal. Or do you mean they just pinned on a complete upper? I’ve looked for the tech data to show how this was done but I can’t find it. In the aircraft world it would’ve come as a TCTO, but I don’t know how it would’ve gone for armorers. |
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