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Posted: 7/17/2010 1:16:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I downloaded a copy of the emachineshop program and I'm going to see if I can come up with something, and if it looks decent I'll look at getting a quote. I also downloaded the sofware. I messed around with it for a couple of hours and I didn't get anywhere with it. I don't really have very good computer skills. Let me know if you have any luck. John Thomas [email protected] I've played with it for about 1 hour and can say it's going to take me a fair amount of time to just come up with something very crude, so if anyone else comes up with something sooner, please let us know about it. |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 3:18:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Okay guys, I'm working on trying to come up with a model using the emachineshop software and I need to know what you guy's think about how the gas tube would work with FSB. Do we want something more like the modern FSB where the gas tube is not visible when looking from the muzzle towards the receiver of the gun, or do we want something like the following photo of a prototype where you can see the end of the gas tube when viewing the rifle in the same manner. What say the hive?
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Posted: 7/17/2010 3:18:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Lost Wax method would be easy for a proto. I know someone here on the forum found one at a gunshow back in 07. Yes they did (not me). I'm pretty sure it's the one shown in the first four photos of Private Snafu's post on page 1 of this thread. I'm in for a share of the set up/ mold making costs if that's the direction this project ends up going. |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 3:42:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Okay guys, I'm working on trying to come up with a model using the emachineshop software and I need to know what you guy's think about how the gas tube would work with FSB. Do we want something more like the modern FSB where the gas tube is not visible when looking from the muzzle towards the receiver of the gun, or do we want something like the following photo of a prototype where you can see the end of the gas tube when viewing the rifle in the same manner. What say the hive? http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp179/04ZREX/Armalite20sight203.jpg My thanks to you and everyone else who are trying to make this a reality! IMHO, I would like to see it look as much like the original as possible. So yes, please design it so the end of the gas tube shows per original. ETA: What gas tube is being considered for this? Standard or custom made? If standard rifle length gas tube will work great. Depending on where it's pinned, It can always be modified to add a little length so it will show at the front end if it's too short. I'll also go back and reread the earlier discussion about this and see if I can answer my own question. |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 3:51:37 PM EDT
[#5]
If we can get someone to provide an original prototype FSB, then getting the casting mold made would be easier and more correct. I'm working on a drawing with the emachineshop software until someone comes up with something better. I'll work on the drawing using dimensions that would allow the use of modern gas tubes and the current in white pencil barrels Century Arms is turning out.
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Posted: 7/17/2010 3:59:27 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Do we want something more like the modern FSB where the gas tube is not visible when looking from the muzzle towards the receiver of the gun, or do we want something like the following photo of a prototype where you can see the end of the gas tube when viewing the rifle in the same manner. What say the hive? I don't think the modern gas tube is long enough to go all the way to the front face of the front sight base, as the one pictured. The forward face of the gas tube is only about .5 inch from the gas port hole and only .2 inch from the roll pin hole. WIth that said... I'd like to see it have the original look also. I'd suggest drilling the hole all the way through and then we could plug it with a press fit piece of steel rod. ??? Thanks, John Thomas |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 4:04:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do we want something more like the modern FSB where the gas tube is not visible when looking from the muzzle towards the receiver of the gun, or do we want something like the following photo of a prototype where you can see the end of the gas tube when viewing the rifle in the same manner. What say the hive? I don't think the modern gas tube is long enough to go all the way to the front face of the front sight base, as the one pictured. The forward face of the gas tube is only about .5 inch from the gas port hole and only .2 inch from the roll pin hole. WIth that said... I'd like to see it have the original look also. I'd suggest drilling the hole all the way through and then we could plug it with a press fit piece of steel rod. ??? Thanks, John Thomas That sounds like a great idea! |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 4:07:28 PM EDT
[#8]
I can draw up the part in Solid Edge or SolidWorks and then program however many steps in SolidCam if you guys would like.
Dustin |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 4:30:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
I can draw up the part in Solid Edge or SolidWorks and then program however many steps in SolidCam if you guys would like. Dustin Pezboytate, it sounds like your more skilled at this type of work than I, so I would encourage you to see what you can come up with. In the mean time, I'll keep working on my drawings just as something to keep the ball rolling. I must say that the idea of drilling all the way through the FSB for the gas tube is what I was thinking as well. |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 4:35:46 PM EDT
[#10]
What are you guys thinking on the distance of the FSB from handguard cap to the front of the FSB? I'm thinking something like .875" once the surfaces are machined. If we're going to plug the front of the gas tube hole with a piece of pressed steel rod, then we'll need more distance like say 1". What do you guys think?
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Posted: 7/17/2010 5:40:47 PM EDT
[#11]
I took the picture from Knight's collection that had the Prototype and A1 sight blocks, lined them up, and then resized the image in Photoshop until the A1 sight base on the screen matched up with the measurement of a real A1 FSB. This more or less give a reasonably correct set of dimensions for the Prototype FSB.
From the HG cap to the front I'm coming up with a length of between about 1 1/8 or 1 3/16 for the finished product. I wouldn't make it much smaller than 1 1/8. |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 5:50:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Guys,
I was playing with eMachineShop.com's downloaded software again tonight for about 2 more hours, and after about 4 total hours and watching both tutorial videos, I've pretty much given up. I have the gist of how to work the software, but I know I won't be able to get the look as perfect as I know we all desire. I'll concede and allow some of you guys that are better with this stuff than I to continue to work the drawing. Just a fyi... I was kind of going off of some informal measurments when I was working with the software, and I came up with about 1.1 inches from the front cap to the forward face of the front sight base. So, by my estimates, you are in the ballpark on the length. John Thomas |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 6:13:11 PM EDT
[#13]
There are first rate machinists in the gunsmithing forum in the armory. We should see if they can help???
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Posted: 7/17/2010 6:59:43 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Guys, I was playing with eMachineShop.com's downloaded software again tonight for about 2 more hours, and after about 4 total hours and watching both tutorial videos, I've pretty much given up. I have the gist of how to work the software, but I know I won't be able to get the look as perfect as I know we all desire. I'll concede and allow some of you guys that are better with this stuff than I to continue to work the drawing. Just a fyi... I was kind of going off of some informal measurments when I was working with the software, and I came up with about 1.1 inches from the front cap to the forward face of the front sight base. So, by my estimates, you are in the ballpark on the length. John Thomas John, this is what I came up with after about 2 hours, so I feel your pain. The last time I worked with CAD was back in college in 1991. It's amazing how much you forget over the years. I'm not giving up though, I'll keep trying until someone comes up with something better. Please forgive my drawing for it's crudeness, but I just thought I would show what I've got so far, which isn't much. 
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Posted: 7/17/2010 7:46:48 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
John, this is what I came up with after about 2 hours, so I feel your pain. The last time I worked with CAD was back in college in 1991. It's amazing how much you forget over the years. I'm not giving up though, I'll keep trying until someone comes up with something better. Please forgive my drawing for it's crudeness, but I just thought I would show what I've got so far, which isn't much. http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp179/04ZREX/3Dwire.jpg Well, this is mine after about 4 hours... I'd say I'm not even in the ballpark. So, as I said before, I think I'm thowing in the towell. I'm sure someone out there can make this happen... but it's not me. John Thomas 
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Posted: 7/17/2010 8:10:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Why not just cut off the end off another gas tube and use it to plug the hole in the front instead of using a steel rod?
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Posted: 7/17/2010 8:46:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Why not just cut off the end off another gas tube and use it to plug the hole in the front instead of using a steel rod? That sounds like a super idea. John Thomas |
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Posted: 7/18/2010 3:06:57 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
John, this is what I came up with after about 2 hours, so I feel your pain. The last time I worked with CAD was back in college in 1991. It's amazing how much you forget over the years. I'm not giving up though, I'll keep trying until someone comes up with something better. Please forgive my drawing for it's crudeness, but I just thought I would show what I've got so far, which isn't much. http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp179/04ZREX/3Dwire.jpg Well, this is mine after about 4 hours... I'd say I'm not even in the ballpark. So, as I said before, I think I'm thowing in the towell. I'm sure someone out there can make this happen... but it's not me. John Thomas http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/jntmjt1/Capture.jpg The program you're using looks rather basic. I'll model it up on Monday and post pics here for you guys to see if it looks correct or not. I will use 1.125 for the length, standard FSB dims for the width, height, sling swivel attachment, etc.. Let me know if there are any other measurements you can derive from pics. Dustin |
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Posted: 7/18/2010 4:33:10 AM EDT
[#19]
This is getting interesting guys. Keep it up. There are many here down for these. Better grab a couple of virgin barrels JIC.
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Posted: 7/18/2010 10:30:01 AM EDT
[#20]
[/quote]
The program you're using looks rather basic. I'll model it up on Monday and post pics here for you guys to see if it looks correct or not. I will use 1.125 for the length, standard FSB dims for the width, height, sling swivel attachment, etc.. Let me know if there are any other measurements you can derive from pics. Dustin[/quote] Dustin, any help you can give those of use who don't have your skills would be most greatful. As you can see by the next picture, I don't have much yet. 
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Posted: 7/18/2010 11:15:04 AM EDT
[#21]
Maybe a dumb question,but has anyone called Numrich Arms to speak to someone in the know and see if by chance they have a FSB for sale? If not,let me know exactly what model FSB you're trying to replicate and I'll give them a try,and if need be I'll drive over there to speak face to face with one of the more knowledgeable pickers.
ETA,BTW O4ZREX,that's lookin pretty damn good. |
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Posted: 7/18/2010 11:38:37 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Maybe a dumb question,but has anyone called Numrich Arms to speak to someone in the know and see if by chance they have a FSB for sale? If not,let me know exactly what model FSB you're trying to replicate and I'll give them a try,and if need be I'll drive over there to speak face to face with one of the more knowledgeable pickers. ETA,BTW O4ZREX,that's lookin pretty damn good. M1sniper, I don't believe anyone has tried to contact Numrich Arms, but that sounds like a good idea. We are trying to replicate the prototype style FSB's as seen in "The Black Rifle" book on page 67. If you have the means to actually talk to someone face to face at Numrich Arms that has one stashed away it would make our lives much easier. We could use it to make a permanent casting mold, so that we could replicate the part. Many of us here want to use the newer in white pencil barrels that Century Arms is putting out with one of these FSB's in conjuction with other prototype parts that NDS is making such as the NDS-32 upper. Boywonder777 is working on an early Armalite prototype buttstock as well. It would be really cool if all of us could bring this dream to reality.  Below is a picture of what I'm trying to make a model. Oh, and thanks for the compliments on the drawing, I'm eagerly awaiting to see what Pezboytate can come up with using SolidWorks Software.
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Posted: 7/18/2010 11:48:20 AM EDT
[#23]
I'm about 45 minutes from Numrich,I'll see if I can get up there tomorrow or Tues.
ETA,I printed the pic and will bring with me. |
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Posted: 7/18/2010 12:50:58 PM EDT
[#24]
I am busy as all get out, but I can model it in 3d and drop that to an IGS file to run a mill if I can get some ciritcal dimensions. Probably would be a few weeks before i can get to it.
Casting is going to be expensive on startup costs for a mold- the value in casting is large batches, and i don't see a huge market for these (although i have been wrong before!) If someone can email me a dimensioned sketch i will get something together as time permits. I have been considering bringing a few retro AR parts to market either on my own or through Manticore Arms. |
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Posted: 7/18/2010 4:01:06 PM EDT
[#25]
M1sniper and Dawg180, anything you guys can contribute to this effort is much appreciated. I can get a permanent mold made for $500, and the guy who would make the mold said that we could get 50,000 or more from the mold before it started to wearout.
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Posted: 7/18/2010 5:09:42 PM EDT
[#26]
WOW, $500! That's great. The company that I got to quote on casting them was $3000 for the mold and samples. After the mold and samples the price was really decent though. I think the quote was $18 ea for a qty of 50.
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Posted: 7/18/2010 7:50:10 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
WOW, $500! That's great. The company that I got to quote on casting them was $3000 for the mold and samples. After the mold and samples the price was really decent though. I think the quote was $18 ea for a qty of 50. Heatnbeat, I mentioned your name to Jess at the Rifle Shop when I spoke to him last week and he said that he remembered getting your email, but didn't get any pictures. If you have any questions you want me to ask him please let me know as it's a local call or a 30 minute drive from my work to visit with him. He's a really neat guy, but very busy. I must say he makes some really cool muskets from scratch. He mentioned that Choate ownes a foundry that he sends his molds to for casting. He will make a permanent mold for us at $500, but it's up to us to get with the foundry to make the castings. He says that they will take work from an individual like me, but didn't say what those additional costs would be. Do you have contacts with a foundry if I can get you the mold? Thanks 04ZREX |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 2:53:31 AM EDT
[#28]
He mentioned that Choate ownes a foundry that he sends his molds to for casting. He will make a permanent mold for us at $500, but it's up to us to get with the foundry to make the castings. He says that they will take work from an individual like me, but didn't say what those additional costs would be. Do you have contacts with a foundry if I can get you the mold?
My only connections are the company that I originally contacted. I don't know if they accept outside work but I can ask. Sounds like Choate would be a likely candidate since they have a experience doing outside work for individuals. |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 4:50:33 AM EDT
[#29]
I'll contact Jess at the Rifle Shop this week and get the contact information for Choate and find out what they would charge us once we have the mold.
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Posted: 7/19/2010 5:17:22 AM EDT
[#30]
This is as far as I can go until getting dimensions. If someone knows what the diameter for the barrel and gas tube, distance between the previous two, distance to flat at the top, etc. that would be much appreciated. Also, let me know if you think any of the dimensions need change for the way it looks. The web in the center is .1 thick and the part where the gas tube goes through is .3 thick. I did this really quick just so I could get some feedback on it, I apologize if I left anything out. Dustin |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 5:47:36 AM EDT
[#31]
Holy Cow! That was fast and way better than what I have done. Kudos to you Pezboytate! Let's see what the hive has to say about dimensions.
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Posted: 7/19/2010 6:38:45 AM EDT
[#32]
As far as I'm concerned, it is a prototype and as such the dimensions can be whatever we want them to be.
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Posted: 7/19/2010 6:50:45 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
As far as I'm concerned, it is a prototype and as such the dimensions can be whatever we want them to be. We do want to make sure that it will work with current production parts such as the in white barrels, gas tube, front handguard cap, front site post, front site detent/spring, and front sling swivel. Those are the things that I'm most concerned about. |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 6:54:52 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
As far as I'm concerned, it is a prototype and as such the dimensions can be whatever we want them to be. +1, but I would double check with whoever it is that you're going to have pin it to the barrel to see what kind of location points are required for the jig they are using ( i think it's the area where the post screw in) ....don't want to have any unpleasant surprises when it comes time to actually install the thing |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 7:01:47 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
As far as I'm concerned, it is a prototype and as such the dimensions can be whatever we want them to be. +1, but I would double check with whoever it is that you're going to have pin it to the barrel to see what kind of location points are required for the jig they are using ( i think it's the area where the post screw in) ....don't want to have any unpleasant surprises when it comes time to actually install the thing Well, I don't know about you guys, but I was planning in using Heatnbeat to have my FSB mounted. Of course that's assuming that Heatnbeat is willing to do the work. Heatnbeat are you out there listening? I would like to know what his thoughts are on this matter.
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Posted: 7/19/2010 7:11:09 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
As far as I'm concerned, it is a prototype and as such the dimensions can be whatever we want them to be. +1, but I would double check with whoever it is that you're going to have pin it to the barrel to see what kind of location points are required for the jig they are using ( i think it's the area where the post screw in) ....don't want to have any unpleasant surprises when it comes time to actually install the thing Maybe the front taper pin will be in the same location as a standard FSB, but the rear definitely won't be. I understand that the FSB doesn't need to look exactly like the prototypes. It does, however, need to have the correct dimensions so that it will fit on the barrel, the gas tube will fit into it and be at the right height, and the sight will work on it. I do want it to look as close to the original as possible, yet still be compatible with a standard rifle length gas system and a standard gas tube. As you can see on the original, the gas tube is very close to the barrel. I had to raise up the point where the slant in the rear starts and the thick part in the middle that the gas tube goes through to compensate for this. Dustin |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 7:11:37 AM EDT
[#37]
I'd want it to be Heatnbeat blessed as well.
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Posted: 7/19/2010 7:40:15 AM EDT
[#38]
This is getting exciting! We may actually pull this one off. Seeing these drawings really starts to make me think we can really do this, were as before it seemed like a far off dream.
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Posted: 7/19/2010 7:54:28 AM EDT
[#39]
has anybody looked into possibly using a modded AK sight...some of them look pretty close as is
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Posted: 7/19/2010 8:05:03 AM EDT
[#40]
I don't know if Eugene Stoner would approve of us doing that. On a serious note, I hadn't thought about that. Thanks for the suggestion, we'll keep it in mind. I personally want something that looks as close as possible to the original, I'm kind of anal retentive if you haven't figured that out already.
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Posted: 7/19/2010 8:51:45 AM EDT
[#41]
I am simply amazed constantly by the thinking and skill's displayed here.
You guy's are fantastic to watch. |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 12:44:07 PM EDT
[#42]
I had considered the AKM front sight, it's not a bad idea, but I decided I'd never be able to drill the gas port and make it work. Personally, I think with the skills available here, developing a custom made fsb that is closer to the original is the way to go.
pezboytate, your drawing looks super. I'd be very happy with one just like it! John Thomas |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 3:12:45 PM EDT
[#43]
Okay, after reading this whole thread again I am confused by the reference to the taper pins and them not fitting the standard holes.
I have been looking at new stripped barrels and they don't appear to have any thing on them that would indicate that they are pre-fitted or pre-grooved or whatever you machinist types call it. To my untrained eye they all appear to be plain untouched barrels. Without any thing except a place to mount the FSB, am I missing something ? I guess I am asking if you bought a new barrel, taper pins, and a prototype FSB, after you get the FSB squished into place on the mounting space and over the gas port isn't that when you would mill the grooves and install the taper pins? and what about the gas tube? Cant you just cut the excess off the back end where it goes into the upper so that it doesn't bang into the back of the gas key? In case your wondering I spent my years working with things that went boom in the Marines and then in Corrections. So all of this is way beyond my experiences other than the shooting and cleaning parts. |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 4:25:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Okay, after reading this whole thread again I am confused by the reference to the taper pins and them not fitting the standard holes. I have been looking at new stripped barrels and they don't appear to have any thing on them that would indicate that they are pre-fitted or pre-grooved or whatever you machinist types call it. To my untrained eye they all appear to be plain untouched barrels. Without any thing except a place to mount the FSB, am I missing something ? I guess I am asking if you bought a new barrel, taper pins, and a prototype FSB, after you get the FSB squished into place on the mounting space and over the gas port isn't that when you would mill the grooves and install the taper pins? and what about the gas tube? Cant you just cut the excess off the back end where it goes into the upper so that it doesn't bang into the back of the gas key? In case your wondering I spent my years working with things that went boom in the Marines and then in Corrections. So all of this is way beyond my experiences other than the shooting and cleaning parts. I think you are correct on locating the front sight base. The new barrel is smooth with no provision for aligning pins. The new front sight base would normally have no holes either. You line up the gas port on the barrel with the gas port on the front sight base, fix it in place, then drill the two holes all the way through the entire assembly. Alignment of the gas ports dictates where the front sight base goes. I think what we have to focus on is making sure the gas port is positioned on the front sight base in a manner that allows the rear face of the sight base to butt up against the front face of the handguard cap on a standard rifle. If we can do that, then this base should be usable for anyone. Additionally, it would work for those custom drilling their barrels, because they can locate their barrel's gas port wherever they'd like. I'm not so sure about just cutting the rear off of the gas tube. It may work, but if you'll notice the rear of the gas tube has a slight flare to it. I assume to help seal it to the key on the bolt. Without this flare, it may leak gas and not function properly. ??? John Thomas |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 5:19:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Okay, after reading this whole thread again I am confused by the reference to the taper pins and them not fitting the standard holes. I have been looking at new stripped barrels and they don't appear to have any thing on them that would indicate that they are pre-fitted or pre-grooved or whatever you machinist types call it. To my untrained eye they all appear to be plain untouched barrels. Without any thing except a place to mount the FSB, am I missing something ? I guess I am asking if you bought a new barrel, taper pins, and a prototype FSB, after you get the FSB squished into place on the mounting space and over the gas port isn't that when you would mill the grooves and install the taper pins? and what about the gas tube? Cant you just cut the excess off the back end where it goes into the upper so that it doesn't bang into the back of the gas key? In case your wondering I spent my years working with things that went boom in the Marines and then in Corrections. So all of this is way beyond my experiences other than the shooting and cleaning parts. You're right. If this gets made, it will be compatible with a standard rifle length gas, standard gas tube, standard handguard cap, etc.. The rear has a counter bore for the handguard cap to fit in and the position of the bottom hole and side hole determine where the gas tube and gas port sit. If someone wants, they can install it flush against the barrel shoulder and use a custom length gas tube, as long as those two holes aren't already drilled. The comment made about drilling the holes for the taper pins is because people usually use a jig to drill them. The jig locates by attaching to the threaded hole where the front sight post is. On a standard FSB, the pins are nearly 2 inches apart. On this FSB, the pins are less than 1 inch apart. This just means the FSB installer may have to drill another hole in the jig or something. Dustin |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 5:21:58 PM EDT
[#46]
If anyone does have the dimensions for the holes in the top of the FSB, the distance between the gas tube and barrel, the diameter for the gas tube hole, etc. that would be much appreciated.
Dustin |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 7:26:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Dustin, it looks to me like you have most of what you need for dimensions. The gas port is .3 from the shoulder on an AR barrel so if you deduct .030 for the thickness of the handguard cap that would put the gasport hole .270 from the rear of the sight base. The rear pin hole is just a bit behind the gasport drilling, but I think you can adjust that as needed. I think you'll have to make a consession on the gas tube pin if we're going to use a standard tube. The pin hole will need to move back to the rear, about .7 from the rear face. Otherwise we'll have to make custom gastubes. The front can have a dummy plug tacked in to look like the original
As for pinning it; as long as you leave as much meat at the bottom as a regular FSB everything will be fine. The drill jigs don't have drill bushings, at least not the Bravo Co ones. You just come down with a center drill and get a start, then drill them. There is no problem with spacing ( there is no uniformity in the originals anyway) On the bottom where it's pinned the regular base is about .750 wide and it extends about .200 below the hole where the barrel goes through. An additional thought on the taper pins (2 actually) first it's probably best if the base is not drilled, that way it's new holes all the way through. Second, if the holes were not drilled it would be easier to fit them on used barrels. Just set your rear hole a bit forward and then it and the front would be in clean steel with no existing holes to make the bit wander. It would probably make it possible for a guy that's half way creative to mount it with his drill press on a used barrel. A thought on the machining. I discussed it with one of the guys at work who has a CNC machine ( and too much work at the moment to take this on :-( ) . We figured that one way to hold it would be to leave a flange all the way around the outside about 3/32 thick right in the middle of the cross section, kind of like forging flash. That would allow clamping it while machining both sides and then it could be ground off just like smoothing a FSB. Looking GOOD! |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 8:13:59 PM EDT
[#48]
compatible with a standard rifle length gas, standard gas tube, standard handguard cap, etc.
So this means it will work also with carbine and middy length also? I'm just trying to be clear since I want to build a mid-length NDS-32 prototype inspired retro.... Does that make sense to anyone but me?  
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Posted: 7/19/2010 9:45:45 PM EDT
[#49]
Pezboy,
Looks good, I think the extended bipod version would be best, for if you wanted it it would be there if you didn't it could be removed. May be easier form the get go rather then work it later on. just a thought. |
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Posted: 7/20/2010 4:01:18 AM EDT
[#50]
I don't believe the bi-pod mount was part of the FSB. Problem is, we don't know how it was attached.
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