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Posted: 6/3/2023 11:34:07 PM EDT
The normal summer slow down has been even worse this year at Tromix, so with nearly nothing to do today, I decided to make myself a 357 Magnum AR. Yes, I know it has been done before.....and we did some 44 Magnums back in 2000 as well.
I started by making the Desert Eagle magazine adapter which proved to be quite time consuming. Though ugly, it functions fantastic and will run 357, 41, 429, 440, 44, 50...all the mags lock in and drop out great with the forward paddle release. The barrel is from an old Green Mountain 1:20 twist blank, cut at 10.5", pistol gas. Recoil is very light. I'll take it out to my ranch on Monday and get some video for you guys. There are no plans for production, its just a personal toy but I figured some of you guys might want to see it. Tony Rumore Tromix Video at link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KQYwQ-X_OY   |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 11:44:49 PM EDT
[#1]
very cool 357 mag, through a 16" barrel has impressive velocities  
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Posted: 6/3/2023 11:49:40 PM EDT
[#2]
Interesting place to crop the image.
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Posted: 6/4/2023 12:02:18 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting place to crop the image. The pic wasn't cropped at all. Here's another pic with the camera backed up a bit. It's an SBR lower.  |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 12:39:30 AM EDT
[#4]
That's awesome. Any issues getting it to run and feed? Or were desert eagle mags all I took?
What kind of bolt? |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 12:55:17 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's awesome. Any issues getting it to run and feed? Or were desert eagle mags all I took? What kind of bolt? The biggest issue is the 357 mags have fairly narrow feed lips, so the lower two AR bolt lugs want to strike the magazine both going forward and coming back. I tried it first, holding the magazine lower in the receiver so the lugs went over the top of the feed lips, but the angle was too steep for the rounds to feed. So I had no choice but to elevate the mag and make some clearance cuts at the back of the mag for the lugs to slide through. I don't recall having that issue when I made the 44 Mag guns back in 2000 but those mags have wider feed lips. The other issue with using DE mags, is that when they are full, they feed low, and as they empty out, they keep feeding higher and higher. With the limited rounds I fired getting the gas port sized correctly, the thing functioned, but I'm still concerned over the feed angle changing as the mag empties out. Tony |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 6:13:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting place to crop the image. 
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Posted: 6/4/2023 6:35:10 AM EDT
[#7]
I prefer Lil Gun for rifle loads in 44, 45 colt and 357 mag. It gives better velocity and accuracy. I can safely hit 2200fps.with a 158 grain xtp in a 24" Wincbester 1892.
I love the idea though!!! |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 6:41:54 AM EDT
[#8]
I’ll be honest, if someone made a reliable 357 upper, I’d buy it. Ron Williams made them in the past, but I haven’t seen him post in a long while.
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Posted: 6/4/2023 7:11:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Now that is cool Tony. If you ever decide to make some, please let me know. I would buy one.
A 10.5" 357 mag would be a great fun gun and cheap to load for. Please post a vid when you have time. iirc AMT had mags as well. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 7:18:19 AM EDT
[#10]
Way cool! How ya been man? It’s been a bit.
I’m Glenn Fleming by the way. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 8:05:17 AM EDT
[#11]
Man what a tease!
A 16in semi auto carbine in 44 mag and 357 mag, with adapters to use desert eagle mags has always been a dream of mine! I always thought a AR upper would probably be the easiest way. What does the bolt face/locking lugs look like on the 357 and 44? I bought a ruger deerfield carbine and love it, just hate the tiny 4 round mag. Wish someone could make a adapter to make it use DE mags. There was a company making 10 round mags for them, but they are out of production. Also have a 357 and 44 marlin 1894's and love both of them, as well as desert eagles in 357, 44, and 50, with 6 and 10 in barrels for each caliber. (can you tell I am a fan of 357 and 44?) |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 8:16:46 AM EDT
[#12]
Wow that is really cool. I look forward to the range report.
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Posted: 6/4/2023 8:31:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Gas operated you say? That's cool.
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Posted: 6/4/2023 10:23:36 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What does the bolt face/locking lugs look like on the 357 and 44? I don't have a 44 bolt at the moment, but here's a pic of the 357 bolt. It just looks like a 6.5 Grendel bolt with a .125" depth. I just opened up a 5.56 bolt for the prototype. Extractor is a 6.8 that I recut the groove a bit higher to accommodate the thicker rim of the .357. Tony  |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 10:38:05 AM EDT
[#15]
Neat!
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Posted: 6/4/2023 10:38:08 AM EDT
[#16]
Well... that is awesome.
What recoil setup ? I don't know enough about a Magnum pistol upper to guess at that. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 12:13:11 PM EDT
[#17]
First of all, that is awesome!
I've always wondered why no on'e's done .357 and really got my hopes up when 350 legend was announced, but that was a huge let down. Secondly, would angling the feed lips to feed from one side only (say the right side so it's also closer to the ejection port for visual que and tactile feel) also solve them from lining up with the lugs? From this. To this. / \ / | / \ / | | | | | Also, try coonan magazines? Edit: wow, that did not line up in post despite it looking perfect in the reply box, basically just wanted to shift the feed lips from a very narrow center feed to a permant right side feed. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 2:48:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Ya know....if your "slow" maybe re-issuing some old product offerings could help for those slow months.....Like your 50ae uppers, varmint season is in full swing so the furball (fireball) lineup might see some use. Just have to get the word out and I guarantee they'd sell. Saubier guys would gobble up 17/22 fireball and 20 Vartarg uppers real quick. Just an idea
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Posted: 6/4/2023 5:01:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Intriguing!
Could you use a PMAG conversion like the 9mm ones? Print or make your own? |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 10:56:28 AM EDT
[#20]
This is really a cool idea Tony. As with many cool ideas, it gets the little gray cells working and thinking, which is usually a bad idea. I wonder... what if it were chambered in the .357 Maximum, and appropriate inserts made, could one shoot .357 Maximum, .357 Magnum, and .38 Special in the same firearm as one could in in the Maximum revolvers and single shot pistols? I suspect each cartridge would need their own specific magazine (what mag would fit a .357 Max, God only knows) and I would think that since it is gas operated, getting the upper to function with all three cartridges might be a chore and an adjustable gas block would almost be a must. And...
See what happens when the little gray cells get |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 5:13:36 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The biggest issue is the 357 mags have fairly narrow feed lips, so the lower two AR bolt lugs want to strike the magazine both going forward and coming back. I tried it first, holding the magazine lower in the receiver so the lugs went over the top of the feed lips, but the angle was too steep for the rounds to feed. So I had no choice but to elevate the mag and make some clearance cuts at the back of the mag for the lugs to slide through. I don't recall having that issue when I made the 44 Mag guns back in 2000 but those mags have wider feed lips. The other issue with using DE mags, is that when they are full, they feed low, and as they empty out, they keep feeding higher and higher. With the limited rounds I fired getting the gas port sized correctly, the thing functioned, but I'm still concerned over the feed angle changing as the mag empties out. Tony now that is cool. I was going to ask for some pics of the .44, but it'd look the same as the .357. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:06:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: now that is cool. I was going to ask for some pics of the .44, but it'd look the same as the .357. I seem to recall the 44mag (and the 50AE) having "picket fence" bolt lugs lol Found a pic 
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Posted: 6/8/2023 12:06:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ll be honest, if someone made a reliable 357 upper, I’d buy it. Ron Williams made them in the past, but I haven’t seen him post in a long while. ^this. I have a crap-ton of .357 Mag (& .38 Spec) brass & components. 16” & 10” or so options would be awesome. |
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Posted: 6/8/2023 1:52:50 PM EDT
[#24]
I’m wondering if there would be a way to use one of the RDB buffer/springs to make a blowback/RDB .357 upper easier on the bolt design side of things.
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Posted: 6/9/2023 9:44:59 AM EDT
[#25]
The RDB design works for 9mm. .357 has considerably more energy.
It would deform the end of the bolts lugs quickly. DB |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:55:03 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The RDB design works for 9mm. .357 has considerably more energy. It would deform the end of the bolts lugs quickly. DB Fair enough, it was mostly idle musing after seeing how little meat is on the .44 bolt posted earlier. I still want a 357 upper though. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 10:05:59 PM EDT
[#27]
Very cool. I shoot & reload .357; am interested.
Since it's a rimmed case, do you have to stack the rounds in the mag in a certain way to avoid "rim lock"? |
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Posted: 6/11/2023 8:26:43 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I seem to recall the 44mag (and the 50AE) having "picket fence" bolt lugs lol Found a pic http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/2406152756/11157871/g6.jpg Interesting. I guess it works and is safe, otherwise it would not have been done. I wonder if you could use a AR10 bolt and barrel extension? Since the 44 mag rim is not extremely much bigger than a 308, it would probably not break through and make the bot be picket fenced. Maybe one of the new small frame AR10's such as the new ruger or dpms g2? Or maybe just build the 44mag 50ae on a AR10 upper? |
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Posted: 6/11/2023 6:55:44 PM EDT
[#29]
I added a video. Clink.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KQYwQ-X_OY Tony Rumore Tromix |
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Posted: 6/11/2023 8:12:20 PM EDT
[#30]
You sir are awesome.
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Posted: 6/11/2023 8:46:07 PM EDT
[#31]
That video isn't helping me not want to buy one
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Posted: 6/11/2023 11:03:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I added a video. Clink. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KQYwQ-X_OY Tony Rumore Tromix  Tromix 357 Magnum AR-15 |
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Posted: 6/11/2023 11:05:53 PM EDT
[#33]
.38 Special wadcutters through a can?
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Posted: 6/11/2023 11:15:28 PM EDT
[#34]
Gotta admit, that video made me giggle like a little school girl. Nice...
Hornady makes some nice semi-spitzer bullets in .357 caliber, a 90 gr. and a 110 gr. in the .38 Special Critical Defense, 125 gr. FTX in .357 Mag Critical Defense, 135 gr. Critical Duty FlexLock, and a LeveRevolution 140 gr. FTX in .357 Magnum. At one time, Midway had a run on the 110 gr. bullets and I stupidly did not snatch any up, thinking they would become a regular reloading item, but none of them other than the 140 gr. FTX have become available for the reloader so far as I know. All of these are great bullets and I would bet dollars to doughnuts that they would scream in that AR and feed like greased butter. And for your heavy bullet gurus, the Hornady Sub-X 250 gr. .357 bullet made for the .350 Legend should be a very interesting bullet to play with if it is not too long. I may have to get a box of these to play with in the .358 SOCOM sometime down the road. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 8:05:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Impressive.
Now I know, I might need one. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 1:50:18 AM EDT
[#36]
Thought I wanted a 10mm DI upper. Now I see I want a .357 Mag upper.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 10:56:37 PM EDT
[#37]
A .357 mag semi automatic rifle would be entertaining
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Posted: 6/17/2023 4:25:28 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I added a video. Clink. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KQYwQ-X_OY Tony Rumore Tromix And it definitely had a fireball with each shot. |
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Posted: 6/17/2023 4:53:41 PM EDT
[#39]
That’s very cool.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 6:24:41 AM EDT
[#40]
Impressive, wish I had the skill to be board and just creat something like that
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Posted: 6/22/2023 6:57:20 AM EDT
[#41]
I had one built about 10 years ago. It’s a cool upper for sure. I think I went with a 12 inch barrel, I’ll have to dig it out of the safe.
The original builder did not made it so it worked (nor did he want to warranty it either, I still have the emails saved). I took it to a talented gunsmith in AZ and he fixed all the issues with it by basically improving on every single aspect of the upper. He also made a couple of bolts made as spares. I had it made when getting a 357 magnum vs 10mm upper was just as difficult, so why not 357? Mine runs great in slow semi, but not in auto or rapid fire (semi). I wanted the magazine to be a Coonan 357, but the DE magazine proved to be way way cheaper and plentiful. Now that Coonan is no more, using a DE mag was the right choice. Shooting it suppressed is way fun too!. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:39:37 AM EDT
[#42]
Watched video. Very impressive.
So when am I gonna be able to add this to my 357 levergun and revolver. I've got a ton of 357/38sp. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:56:26 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting place to crop the image. They don't hire the cleverest feds these days... |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 8:48:26 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: There are no plans for production, I would think based off the interest in this tread, that there is a a small demand for these. If you were to put these into a limited production, what type of price point would they be? Less than 1k or more? |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 11:10:17 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would think based off the interest in this tread, that there is a a small demand for these. If you were to put these into a limited production, what type of price point would they be? Less than 1k or more? Over 10 years ago it was more than $1000. |
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Posted: 6/25/2023 2:59:49 PM EDT
[#46]
Nice work.
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Posted: 6/25/2023 3:05:18 PM EDT
[#47]
Nice!
I do hope you reconsider making this a commercial product. Even if its a small run. I've got a 357 deagle. I'd love to buy the mag block/barrel/bolt for this. |
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Posted: 6/26/2023 6:10:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Publish bbl/gas/chamber specs, publish 3-D print mag-block files, sell bolt only, no troubleshooting, profit?
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Posted: 7/2/2023 8:42:54 AM EDT
[#49]
Couple more questions I just thought of.
Since everything I have seen that uses rimmed straight wall cartridges (like the 357) the whole round goes into the chamber all the way to the rim, and the distance between the bolt face and the breech sets the headspace. Sine the head fits down in the face of the AR bolt, how much of the case is unsupported? While I can not tell from the picture, did you trim down the front face of the AR bolt to make it the same "height" as the rim of the 357 case? Or is the case head of the 357 case strong enough to not be a issue? Is there any bulging of the cases? Did you mod the barrel extension any? As in, the feed ramps? From the picture showing the loaded mag in the gun, it kinda looks like you rounded it out/smoothed it a little. Quote HistoryQuoted: Publish bbl/gas/chamber specs, publish 3-D print mag-block files, sell bolt only, no troubleshooting, profit? I would be down with that. Or sell bolt/mag adapter combos. I would think a slightly oversized gas port and a adjustable gas block would be nice. That way you can adjust it to different loads. |
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Posted: 7/5/2023 2:02:12 AM EDT
[#50]
Could you get bored and check out what can single stack in the various 5.7 mags?
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