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Posted: 3/16/2012 5:07:38 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Can you share how you confirmed that? pix above. the angle is there from the factory |
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Posted: 3/16/2012 2:25:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Looks factory to me, my LR looks the same except the cuts are smaller.
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Posted: 3/16/2012 2:55:13 PM EDT
[#3]
pix above. the angle is there from the factory
Assuming that because something leaves the factory that way, it is by design. |
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Posted: 3/16/2012 9:16:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Thanks for the photos of the bolt.
Now that we got the problem covered, go out and get some Magpul Mags. They work great in a BM .308. Excellent mag for the price. |
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Posted: 3/17/2012 9:01:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Im not so sure the 90deg notches in the original poster's pics match the 45deg angles in the latest pics.. jmo
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Posted: 3/18/2012 6:54:03 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Im not so sure the 90deg notches in the original poster's pics match the 45deg angles in the latest pics.. jmo That is how I see it as well |
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Posted: 3/18/2012 7:05:45 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Im not so sure the 90deg notches in the original poster's pics match the 45deg angles in the latest pics.. jmo I'm going to have to agree here. They may have started as a 40~ish degree angle, but it's definitely wearing funny. |
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Posted: 3/18/2012 12:13:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Im not so sure the 90deg notches in the original poster's pics match the 45deg angles in the latest pics.. jmo I'm going to have to agree here. They may have started as a 40~ish degree angle, but it's definitely wearing funny. i think it might be the angle of the picture that is making it look worse than it is. mine would look that bad too from those angles. |
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Posted: 3/18/2012 1:03:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Here are 2 308 bolts, one a DPMS with at least 1000 rounds on it and a JP with about 100
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Posted: 3/18/2012 9:33:21 PM EDT
[#10]
That looks normal to me, much different than the wear/damage shown by the OP
I have just under 200 rounds on my 308 with no visible marks at all on the bolt. |
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Posted: 3/19/2012 9:06:56 AM EDT
[#11]
It looks like the OP's bolt has had the right angle indentations impacted into the 45 degree surfaces by the barrel extension lugs.
To me, using a carbine-length gas system on a 16" .308 is a nightmare waiting to unfold, without using an adjustable gas block and much heavier buffer. The carbine length gas system was first introduced on 5.56 Colt Model 607's, which had 10" barrels. That barrel length was found to not have enough dwell time on AUTO, so they went to an 11.5" barrel on the XM177E2 after the problems became more manifest on the 10" XM177. They still used a moderator to provide sufficient back pressure for AUTO fire. Eventually, a 14.5" barrel was settled on with the Colt Model 653, and 14.5" barrels have been used ever since on the military side of carbines, with the exception of the Mk18 CQBR. For 7.62 guns, there were some carbine prototypes back in the time frame of the original Armalites in the US and Holland, and they had a MID-LENGTH gas system. When the modern Armalite company and Knight's made 7.62 carbines, they used MID-LENGTH gas systems. A carbine length gas system with a 16" barrel in 7.62 is a recipe for too early unlocking, in my opinion. I would recommend avoiding carbines in this configuration, or tweaking them with heavier buffers and adjustable gas blocks to mitigate the increased gas that they will have with a 7.62 NATO cartridge and the port pressures it produces. |
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Posted: 3/19/2012 6:36:19 PM EDT
[#12]
I believe OP has a Bushmaster .308 MOE.
The MOE has a 16" barrel with a mid length gas system. I have the same rifle with around 400 down the barrel. Mine has he same marks on he corners of the bolt lugs. |
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Posted: 3/19/2012 6:46:08 PM EDT
[#13]
The DPMS Bolt pic I posted, ...16" carbine FWIW, overgassed- probably, kicks like a mule.
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Posted: 3/20/2012 7:31:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Could it be possible that the chamber is a little tight, and the bolt is not fully locking in the extention when the round is being fired? OR I had noticed that the cam pin looked like it was hitting inside of the relief area on a receiver I just picked this weekend, and that might restrict the bolt movement. This got me thinking, when I get home I'll assemble a barrel extention to the upper with the barrel nut, then close the bolt into it and look from the barrel end of the extention to see how much the bolt lugs are engaged with the extention lugs. It will be a few days, but I'll post back I assembled my upper and everything worked as it should, with the bolt 100% locking into the barrel extention. By the marks in the relief area, I would say that the last person that had this upper was having problems with the cam pin hitting and that would have restricted the rotation of the bolt. I placed a piece of masking tape in the relief area and ran the bolt back and forth a few times, but there where no marks on the tape |
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Posted: 3/22/2012 2:14:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Well I finally got my my rifle back from Bushmaster/ Remington... what a nightmare, they forgot to process my request to send it back after I requested it 03/02/12, but now I have it. Kinda scary that they have a 8-10 week back up for warranty work.
Thanks to the posters with pics. Here are some pics of my BCG and Bolt Lugs round count is 800 rounds, for all MOE 308 owners just keep and eye out on the wear of lugs. 
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Posted: 3/22/2012 2:41:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Well I finally got my my rifle back from Bushmaster/ Remington... what a nightmare, they forgot to process my request to send it back after I requested it 03/02/12, but now I have it. Kinda scary that they have a 8-10 week back up for warranty work. Thanks to the posters with pics. Here are some pics of my BCG and Bolt Lugs round count is 800 rounds, for all MOE 308 owners just keep and eye out on the wear of lugs. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-122.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-123.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-124.jpg as i suspected the first pics you posted dramatized the angle in which your wear pattern was having. While im no way a professional in this business i would agree that you, others, and myself all have similar wear on our bolt and it is normal. |
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Posted: 3/22/2012 2:53:43 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well I finally got my my rifle back from Bushmaster/ Remington... what a nightmare, they forgot to process my request to send it back after I requested it 03/02/12, but now I have it. Kinda scary that they have a 8-10 week back up for warranty work. Thanks to the posters with pics. Here are some pics of my BCG and Bolt Lugs round count is 800 rounds, for all MOE 308 owners just keep and eye out on the wear of lugs. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-122.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-123.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-124.jpg as i suspected the first pics you posted dramatized the angle in which your wear pattern was having. While im no way a professional in this business i would agree that you, others, and myself all have similar wear on our bolt and it is normal. No we don't know if it's normal. WE are on our own, Bushmaster/Remington had no official word on my rifle, they NEVER got to it and inspect it. As for now my Bolt has the greatest wear on the lugs are it's probably because I got 800 rounds(Bushmaster MOE 308) and others have around 200< or less, once you reach 800 rounds your BCG if it's "normal" the wear should look like mine. |
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Posted: 3/22/2012 5:01:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Can you share how you confirmed that? I bought mine 2 yrs ago and it's bolt looks the same. The lugs have the corner cut off neatly. |
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Posted: 3/22/2012 5:14:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well I finally got my my rifle back from Bushmaster/ Remington... what a nightmare, they forgot to process my request to send it back after I requested it 03/02/12, but now I have it. Kinda scary that they have a 8-10 week back up for warranty work. Thanks to the posters with pics. Here are some pics of my BCG and Bolt Lugs round count is 800 rounds, for all MOE 308 owners just keep and eye out on the wear of lugs. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-122.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-123.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-124.jpg It's not normal having the corners of the bolts lugs be mangled like that. It's got to be timing of the bolt locking/unlocking. Weather it's the gas system or the cam pin journal not cut right I don't know, but that's an expensive gun being prematurely worn out. If it were my rifle I would have left it in the shop and had it fixed. All .308 parts are expensive, get it done for free. Post up what the fix was once you find out, I have a Remington R-25. Same company most of the same parts. Mine is a 20 inch, the only physical difference. I'm curious to see how this works out for you. as i suspected the first pics you posted dramatized the angle in which your wear pattern was having. While im no way a professional in this business i would agree that you, others, and myself all have similar wear on our bolt and it is normal. No we don't know if it's normal. WE are on our own, Bushmaster/Remington had no official word on my rifle, they NEVER got to it and inspect it. As for now my Bolt has the greatest wear on the lugs are it's probably because I got 800 rounds(Bushmaster MOE 308) and others have around 200< or less, once you reach 800 rounds your BCG if it's "normal" the wear should look like mine. |
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Posted: 3/22/2012 5:15:45 PM EDT
[#20]
I totally borked the above reply, sorry. I posted within your post
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Posted: 3/22/2012 6:32:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
To this date Bushmaster has not looked at my rifle. I called to see what's going on, spoke to a CS rep, he inform me that it should be 8-10 weeks not including travel time .The initial ETA they gave me was 1 week once it got to the repair facility.
Kinda seems like they are back paddling.... So will wait and see when a qualified GS diagnoses the problem. Still no word from Bushmaster? |
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Posted: 3/22/2012 8:27:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Quoted: Well I finally got my my rifle back from Bushmaster/ Remington... what a nightmare, they forgot to process my request to send it back after I requested it 03/02/12, but now I have it. Kinda scary that they have a 8-10 week back up for warranty work. Thanks to the posters with pics. Here are some pics of my BCG and Bolt Lugs round count is 800 rounds, for all MOE 308 owners just keep and eye out on the wear of lugs. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-122.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-123.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-124.jpg as i suspected the first pics you posted dramatized the angle in which your wear pattern was having. While im no way a professional in this business i would agree that you, others, and myself all have similar wear on our bolt and it is normal. I disagree 1000%. If the manufacturer told me that type of wear is 'normal', I'd ask for an immediate refund. With that said, I wouldn't expect much from Bushmaster. Good luck... |
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Posted: 3/22/2012 10:57:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well I finally got my my rifle back from Bushmaster/ Remington... what a nightmare, they forgot to process my request to send it back after I requested it 03/02/12, but now I have it. Kinda scary that they have a 8-10 week back up for warranty work. Thanks to the posters with pics. Here are some pics of my BCG and Bolt Lugs round count is 800 rounds, for all MOE 308 owners just keep and eye out on the wear of lugs. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-122.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-123.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-124.jpg as i suspected the first pics you posted dramatized the angle in which your wear pattern was having. While im no way a professional in this business i would agree that you, others, and myself all have similar wear on our bolt and it is normal. I disagree 1000%. If the manufacturer told me that type of wear is 'normal', I'd ask for an immediate refund. With that said, I wouldn't expect much from Bushmaster. Good luck... Please say more if you like. I stated im no professional. i get most my information on AR guns from this site. Maybe thats a mistake. but i have nobody close by that works with rifles like these. If you don't agree that this is normal, i would love to hear what you have to say. |
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Posted: 3/23/2012 3:46:23 AM EDT
[#24]
This is normal:
Quoted:
Here are 2 308 bolts, one a DPMS with at least 1000 rounds on it and a JP with about 100 http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0437.jpg" target="_blank">http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0437.jpg</a> http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0438.jpg" target="_blank">http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0438.jpg</a> http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0439.jpg" target="_blank">http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0439.jpg</a> THIS is not Quoted:
Well I finally got my my rifle back from Bushmaster/ Remington... what a nightmare, they forgot to process my request to send it back after I requested it 03/02/12, but now I have it. Kinda scary that they have a 8-10 week back up for warranty work. Thanks to the posters with pics. Here are some pics of my BCG and Bolt Lugs round count is 800 rounds, for all MOE 308 owners just keep and eye out on the wear of lugs. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-122.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-123.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-124.jpg An angled cut to ease in unlocking is normal, the gouging and finish wear is a clear indicator that something isn't camming correctly. |
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Posted: 3/23/2012 8:54:07 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Please say more if you like. I stated im no professional. i get most my information on AR guns from this site. Maybe thats a mistake. but i have nobody close by that works with rifles like these. If you don't agree that this is normal, i would love to hear what you have to say. Most of the bolt pics posted here appear completely normal. The ones posted by the OP and yourself are not normal at all. You both have extreme wear on the lugs and I would want the problem corrected ASAP if my bolt looked similar. |
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Posted: 3/23/2012 9:04:06 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
How many times have we heard about shooters who sent in a clear problem gun, only to receive it back with no evidence of any changes, the same problem still occurring, and a note from the manufacturer claiming nothing is wrong with their product? Who serviced the weapon? What is their experience? Have they had a urinalysis in the past 24 hours? With me, I know the answers to all those questions, and have always been able to diagnose any issues with friends' or my guns. OP, I hope your issue is resolved. I agree that it appears to be early unlocking and or a heat-treatment issue with the steel. That wouldn't surprise me, because Bushmaster discontinued manufacture of the BAR-10 .308 several years ago after steel quality issues with the bolts. Looks like this is what happened with the "customer service" call in this case. I'm still thinking that heat-treating and early unlocking are the causes here. I always say how I've never seen or heard of an AR10 let go, but we may be approaching that event sooner than later if quality management is thrown aside to meet the high demand of this market. |
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Posted: 3/23/2012 9:05:14 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well I finally got my my rifle back from Bushmaster/ Remington... what a nightmare, they forgot to process my request to send it back after I requested it 03/02/12, but now I have it. Kinda scary that they have a 8-10 week back up for warranty work. Thanks to the posters with pics. Here are some pics of my BCG and Bolt Lugs round count is 800 rounds, for all MOE 308 owners just keep and eye out on the wear of lugs. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-122.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-123.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-124.jpg as i suspected the first pics you posted dramatized the angle in which your wear pattern was having. While im no way a professional in this business i would agree that you, others, and myself all have similar wear on our bolt and it is normal. I disagree 1000%. If the manufacturer told me that type of wear is 'normal', I'd ask for an immediate refund. With that said, I wouldn't expect much from Bushmaster. Good luck... Slash I completely agree with you, don't expect much from Bushmaster. Sad to say they come so low in the quality of the product they put out and service, My first rifle/Gun I EVER shot was a Bushmaster AR15 before the AWB 
But that was then and this now is completely different. I lost all confidence in Bushmaster/Remington, they couldn't even get the "return as received" right.... All due to a error not once but twice from the CS reps that failed to "push" the submit button in the computer to process my request. So do you really think they can fix my rifle? 1) I went from basically 2 week turnaround according to the CS Rep that took the Service Request. 2) Then a 8-10 week back order just to diagnose my rifle, this was told 2 weeks after they recived my rifle. 3) 2 1/2 weeks to ship my rifle, it would have been more just sitting in the factory if it wasn't for a particular person that help my out in the factory. Thanks 
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Posted: 3/23/2012 9:13:18 AM EDT
[#28]
If you want to keep the rifle, knowing that this is the type of support you will receive, I would look at replacing the bolt.
I would lean towards a full refund though, since you can build your own exactly how you want, and service it yourself. This is sad that they still are having the same problems they did with the BAR-10 from 2003-2004. Institutional knowledge is falling through the cracks somewhere, if it was ever even internalized. |
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Posted: 3/23/2012 8:53:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Agreed,
can anyone pinpoint the reason the bolts are getting torn up? I've seen several theories that make sense.. how about posting some of these pics in the industry threads? |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 6:53:44 PM EDT
[#30]
I think the bolt is not fully locked into the extention when the round is fired.
The OP's bolt shows a wear pattern on the full face of the lugs, but also shows a wear pattern on the first 1/4 of the lug. It could be from the use of different ammo |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 6:56:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Seeing that the rifle uses a mid-length gas system, I wonder if the gas port is too large.
I also suspect bad metallurgy, or lack of proper heat-treating, but those are areas out of my pay grade. Bushmaster has had these types of issues before with the BAR-10, and it ended up with the rifle being discontinued. |
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Posted: 3/25/2012 11:36:53 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Seeing that the rifle uses a mid-length gas system, I wonder if the gas port is too large. I also suspect bad metallurgy, or lack of proper heat-treating, but those are areas out of my pay grade. Bushmaster has had these types of issues before with the BAR-10, and it ended up with the rifle being discontinued. This has nothing to do with any previous bolt problems. This is a DPMS gun, rebadged with Bushmaster logos. The current BFI .308 is in no way similar to the BAR-10 (now being sold as the RRA LAR-8). |
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Posted: 3/25/2012 1:02:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Seeing that the rifle uses a mid-length gas system, I wonder if the gas port is too large. I also suspect bad metallurgy, or lack of proper heat-treating, but those are areas out of my pay grade. Bushmaster has had these types of issues before with the BAR-10, and it ended up with the rifle being discontinued. This has nothing to do with any previous bolt problems. This is a DPMS gun, rebadged with Bushmaster logos. The current BFI .308 is in no way similar to the BAR-10 (now being sold as the RRA LAR-8). Bushmaster rifles are not made by dpms |
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Posted: 3/25/2012 4:36:20 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
This is a DPMS gun, rebadged with Bushmaster logos. Quoted:
Bushmaster rifles are not made by dpms Can someone please post supporting information for one or the other. Are the Bushmaster rifles really DPMS or not? This may explain why I am not seeing this specific problem (from the OP) on any DPMS rifles (bolts) I have examined. |
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Posted: 3/25/2012 4:43:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is a DPMS gun, rebadged with Bushmaster logos. Quoted:
Bushmaster rifles are not made by dpms Can someone please post supporting information for one or the other. Are the Bushmaster rifles really DPMS or not? This may explain why I am not seeing this specific problem (from the OP) on any DPMS rifles (bolts) I have examined. I worked at DPMS, nothing that said bushmaster on it was ever built there. we did however build the remington R25 rifles at DPMS. |
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Posted: 3/25/2012 5:04:28 PM EDT
[#36]
J75,
Yes, I do recall you worked there (now)... Thanks for the response. |
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Posted: 3/25/2012 6:00:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Bushmaster .308's have different lowers, whith a non-permanent trigger guard. Bushmaster is also using 4150 CMV chome-lined barrels on most of their .308 guns.
It wouldn't surprise me if the bolt carrier groups and other parts are sourced from the same machine shops though, just like DPMS and Bushmaster AR15's get their lowers and uppers from the same machine shop, run with different serial numbers and logos. The OP's lugs look like they were under pressure while halfway unlocked, impacting the barrel extension to make those dings. |
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Posted: 3/25/2012 6:04:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Here's something I copied from the RRA industry thread.
thanks, so the LAR-8's are made by Bushmaster? Absolutely not. The Bushmaster BAR-10/BM-308 was a an RRA patented product that Bushmaster held license to produce for a couple of years. When Bushmaster ended the licensing agreement, full rights reverted to RRA. The designs were completely reviewed and after two years of testing and revision, the LAR-8 was released by RRA in its current form.} I know the current question involves DPMS but was Bushmaster the actual mfg of their own rifle during the build dates of the rifles in question? .. |
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Posted: 3/25/2012 6:26:34 PM EDT
[#39]
My understanding was that Rock River licensed their design to Bushmaster, and the BAR-10 was sold during that time frame. I sold a boat load of them in 2004.
I heard that there were a lot of issues with the bolts, parts cracking in odd places, and the gun was discontinued. RRA, as said above, did some trouble-shooting, re-engineering, and began production of the LAR-8, which continues to this day. I haven't heard about any issues with the LAR-8's, and have seen them perform well in some precision rifle classes. |
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Posted: 3/25/2012 6:35:44 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is a DPMS gun, rebadged with Bushmaster logos. Quoted:
Bushmaster rifles are not made by dpms Can someone please post supporting information for one or the other. Are the Bushmaster rifles really DPMS or not? This may explain why I am not seeing this specific problem (from the OP) on any DPMS rifles (bolts) I have examined. I worked at DPMS, nothing that said bushmaster on it was ever built there. we did however build the remington R25 rifles at DPMS. something aint right 
Slash is right! this is a rebadged with Bushmaster logos. Bushmaster MOE 308 Has a DPMS Upper, Charging Handle, Bolt and Carrier marked with the "D". When I called Bushmaster Customer Service. Bushmaster took all my info and created a Service Request, after that "Remington Arms' took over and all email and correspondence was from Remington Arms regarding my Bushmaster MOE 308. According to Bushmaster/Remington my rifle is a LR-308 DPMS pattern rilfe. FYI Remington Arms and Bushamter is located in the same location and factory in Illion, NY. |
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Posted: 3/25/2012 7:10:17 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
something aint right
Slash is right! this is a rebadged with Bushmaster logos. Bushmaster MOE 308 Has a DPMS Upper, Charging Handle, Bolt and Carrier marked with the "D". When I called Bushmaster Customer Service. Bushmaster took all my info and created a Service Request, after that "Remington Arms' took over and all email and correspondence was from Remington Arms regarding my Bushmaster MOE 308. According to Bushmaster/Remington my rifle is a LR-308 DPMS pattern rilfe. FYI Remington Arms and Bushamter is located in the same location and factory in Illion, NY. yes, there are two basic patterns for the 308 platform of AR rifles. the DPMS/R25, and the armalite POF uses the DPMS pattern rifle. that is not the same thing as saying that DPMS makes POF rifles. a "d" on your carrier does not mean it was made by DPMS. it is the role mark of the machine shop that makes the BC who (as has been said) supplies many different makes of AR's. Bushmaster, DPMS, Remington, and a ton of other gun manufactures are owned by the same holding company and are a part of freedom group. of which Remington is a major partner, so if anything is sent up the line so to speak as far as complaints it is handled under the title of "Remington arms". when freedom group was formed, Remington was looking to get into AR's but had none of the facility's to do so. so DPMS built the R25's and bushmaster built the R15's. other then that bit of cross over, the only connection to the different company's is financial. DPMS rifles are made by DPMS and bushmaster rifles are made by bushmaster and Henry rifles are made by Henry. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 8:58:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Ive been keeping on eye on this thread real close. My LR308 shows no signs of bolt wear after at least 1k worth of rds.
something is defently wrong. bolts to tight or loose once its cam,d to the barrel?.... not sure if you can but it would be nice to get into that rifle yourself, especially after seeing the treatment youv recieved, sure would be nice to have the barrel and the bolt on the bench to see/feel the fit with a case chambered...and another bolt/barrel to compare... lots of questions for sure |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:49:16 PM EDT
[#43]
J75player said:
yes, there are two basic patterns for the 308 platform of AR rifles. the DPMS/R25, and the armalite POF uses the DPMS pattern rifle. that is not the same thing as saying that DPMS makes POF rifles. a "d" on your carrier does not mean it was made by DPMS. it is the role mark of the machine shop that makes the BC who (as has been said) supplies many different makes of AR's. Bushmaster, DPMS, Remington, and a ton of other gun manufactures are owned by the same holding company and are a part of freedom group. of which Remington is a major partner, so if anything is sent up the line so to speak as far as complaints it is handled under the title of "Remington arms". when freedom group was formed, Remington was looking to get into AR's but had none of the facility's to do so. so DPMS built the R25's and bushmaster built the R15's. other then that bit of cross over, the only connection to the different company's is financial. DPMS rifles are made by DPMS and bushmaster rifles are made by bushmaster and Henry rifles are made by Henry. EDIT: That. My understanding is that the financial relationship doesn't translate into "is now built by." |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 10:12:21 PM EDT
[#44]
Shepheard...
That? What? You quote two different views of the Bushmaster rifle manufacturers... PLEASE make your position clear and cite evidence if possible. Thanks. |
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Posted: 3/29/2012 3:25:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Could it be possible that the chamber is a little tight, and the bolt is not fully locking in the extention when the round is being fired? OR I had noticed that the cam pin looked like it was hitting inside of the relief area on a receiver I just picked this weekend, and that might restrict the bolt movement. This got me thinking, when I get home I'll assemble a barrel extention to the upper with the barrel nut, then close the bolt into it and look from the barrel end of the extention to see how much the bolt lugs are engaged with the extention lugs. It will be a few days, but I'll post back I assembled my upper and everything worked as it should, with the bolt 100% locking into the barrel extention. By the marks in the relief area, I would say that the last person that had this upper was having problems with the cam pin hitting and that would have restricted the rotation of the bolt. I placed a piece of masking tape in the relief area and ran the bolt back and forth a few times, but there where no marks on the tape I found my cam pin hitting the relief area, restricting the rotation of the bolt. I ordered a new bolt and POF rotating cam pin to fix the problem. I also ordered a heavy buffer CAR-10 to slow down my over gassed gun. The Stock Bushmaster buffer is at 3.7oz compared to the CAR-10 at 5.6oz. Here is a Pic of my bolt and a new one side by side. 
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Posted: 3/29/2012 3:46:34 PM EDT
[#46]
ProlificARProspect,
Thanks for the follow up. I am not a proponent of the heavy buffer much anymore after testing an adjustable gas block... and the block is cheaper in most cases. But, each to his own. Hope you have put this one to bed. Good luck. |
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Posted: 3/30/2012 8:56:57 PM EDT
[#47]
glad you found cause.......
ok now....fess up.....which movie is in the netflix package? |
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Posted: 3/31/2012 8:41:16 PM EDT
[#48]
Very interested in the results, please keep us posted
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Posted: 4/1/2012 7:52:51 AM EDT
[#49]
I think you could round off the top edge of the cam pin to get the clearence needed.
Check to see if the (top) sides are the same on your cam pin, it may have one side a little longer and when you install it that way it hits, but when installed the other way it clears. Are there wear marks on both sides of the cam pin from hitting. Your bolt shows that sometimes it is closing all the way and sometimes its not. |
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Posted: 4/1/2012 10:14:50 AM EDT
[#50]
Everything is making a lot more sense to me now, unless Bushmaster has discovered a magic secret o n how else to resist the pressures of the 7.62 NATO/.308 in carbines with a 3.6oz buffer. In your gun, they obviously did not.
3.6oz buffer weight in any AR10 cahmbered in a cartridge with 40.0-47.0+ grains of powder, common gas system lengths, and common gas port diameters is simply not enough. You need a buffer that is at least 5.4oz, and I suspect you will see these issues go away with the CAR-10 buffer and new bolt. When you look at the impact mark your cam pin made on the upper, you can see that there was nowhere near enough mass resistance to slow down the violent rearward movement of the BCG, and this violent cycling likely caused that impact mark, as well as the damage to your bolt lugs. That is my best guess what was going on with your system. I have run insane over-pressure loads during load development (never continued them of course) in my .260 Rem AR10 with DPMS BCG, with a DPMS rifle buffer, and never seen anything like that. |
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