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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - JJE-H&R LLC acquisition of NoDak Spud (Page 6 of 89)
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Quoted: Lol. Glad to see we're not the only ones w/ pie in the sky dreams. 7x57? .257 Roberts? Are you sure you're trying to make money? Great cartridges but long since replaced in the market. A person that would buy a classic Mannlicher stocked rifle would not want it in the latest whizbang cartridge. And Lipseys seems to sell quite a few limited edition Ruger rifles in those types of cartridges.  Don't worry, we'll make one with a plastic stock in 6.5 CM for all the cool kids. 
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Quoted: A person that would buy a classic Mannlicher stocked rifle would not want it in the latest whizbang cartridge. And Lipseys seems to sell quite a few limited edition Ruger rifles in those types of cartridges. Don't worry, we'll make one with a plastic stock in 6.5 CM for all the cool kids. I’d be down for a 9.3 Man licker ?? 
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Quoted: A person that would buy a classic Mannlicher stocked rifle would not want it in the latest whizbang cartridge. And Lipseys seems to sell quite a few limited edition Ruger rifles in those types of cartridges. Don't worry, we'll make one with a plastic stock in 6.5 CM for all the cool kids. Fair nuff. I say that w/ a 7x57 Spanish Mauser in the closet and gave my uncle a .257 Roberts on a MAS-36 action. |
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Quoted: I think we need to do a 653 and an Israeli carbine. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91277/Ranger_JPEG-921180.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91277/Israeli_Carbine2-909100.jpg Proper pencil barrels with .625 FSBs are pretty much unobtainable right now, you guys would just about have a monopoly on the things if you offered them. |
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Quoted: I think we need to do a 653 and an Israeli carbine. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91277/Ranger_JPEG-921180.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91277/Israeli_Carbine2-909100.jpg Oh my. I have an extra barrel that's begging to grow into a 653. |
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Quoted: A person that would buy a classic Mannlicher stocked rifle would not want it in the latest whizbang cartridge. And Lipseys seems to sell quite a few limited edition Ruger rifles in those types of cartridges. Don't worry, we'll make one with a plastic stock in 6.5 CM for all the cool kids. Quoted: Quoted: Lol. Glad to see we're not the only ones w/ pie in the sky dreams. 7x57? .257 Roberts? Are you sure you're trying to make money? Great cartridges but long since replaced in the market. A person that would buy a classic Mannlicher stocked rifle would not want it in the latest whizbang cartridge. And Lipseys seems to sell quite a few limited edition Ruger rifles in those types of cartridges. Don't worry, we'll make one with a plastic stock in 6.5 CM for all the cool kids. Jusy remember the guy that sild you Mauser parts when you needed them.
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Quoted: I think we need to do a 653 and an Israeli carbine. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91277/Ranger_JPEG-921180.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91277/Israeli_Carbine2-909100.jpg I like that! |
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Quoted: H&R 301 in .300 Win built with an FN action I think limited edition runs in 7x57, 257 Roberts, and 6.5x55 would be sweet. Maybe even a 9.3x62. We would make the stock in a more classic style. The Weatherby influence is quite dated. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91277/H_R_301_a-2215337.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91277/H_R_301_b-2215338.jpg Would love a 7x57 and 9.3x62! CD |
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Dang… All I want are several M16A1 and XM16E1 stripped lower receivers with the planned H&R markings on them!! I know PSA makes a M16A2 marked lower receiver using the beefier M4/A4 reenforced rear end, but if, in due time, it would be nice if you can come out with an early/mid 1980s profiled M16A2 lower receivers… With the H&R markings!! Yes, H&R never made any M16A2, but I’m building clones, not 100% historical correct clones… I’m not a “purist,” but it would be nice to have most of my clones rocking the manufacturer’s markings. IMHO, the A2 is now a retro AR rifle since it’s now pushing 40 years of service. |
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Quoted: Dang… All I want are several M16A1 and XM16E1 stripped lower receivers with the planned H&R markings on them!! I know PSA makes a M16A2 marked lower receiver using the beefier M4/A4 reenforced rear end, but if, in due time, it would be nice if you can come out with an early/mid 1980s profiled M16A2 lower receivers… With the H&R markings!! Yes, H&R never made any M16A2, but I’m building clones, not 100% historical correct clones… I’m not a “purist,” but it would be nice to have most of my clones rocking the manufacturer’s markings. IMHO, the A2 is now a retro AR rifle since it’s now pushing 40 years of service. I proposed merging the A2 section w/ Retro - once. I thought a carry handle section made sense, albeit the A2 is still in service. Both sides were vociferous in their rejection of my idea. |
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Quoted: Dang… All I want are several M16A1 and XM16E1 stripped lower receivers with the planned H&R markings on them!! I know PSA makes a M16A2 marked lower receiver using the beefier M4/A4 reenforced rear end, but if, in due time, it would be nice if you can come out with an early/mid 1980s profiled M16A2 lower receivers… With the H&R markings!! Yes, H&R never made any M16A2, but I’m building clones, not 100% historical correct clones… I’m not a “purist,” but it would be nice to have most of my clones rocking the manufacturer’s markings. IMHO, the A2 is now a retro AR rifle since it’s now pushing 40 years of service. X2 I’m not someone who wants 100% accuracy on retro rifles. Just get me something about 98% close. |
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Quoted: Side note here. As a gun guy, I find the thought of industry campfire talk to be pretty interesting. I bet Jman and Mike probably have tons of interesting tales. Jman, I admit that I find myself curious about AAC. Any stories you could share with us? Must be one heck of a thing to watch from your perspective.  They're still in the Remington facility, right? Mike, one of your previous posts in this thread put the idea into my head again. I always found Federal Arms to be an interesting company. Used to enjoy flipping through their catalog. Any interesting stories you or Harlan could share? What happened to them, anyway? I never did dig into it but it seemed like they were everywhere, then one day they vanished. Same here. Interested in the back stories of FAC. Based off some distinct, proprietary engineering, I am positive that Century Arms wound up with the mold and G-code for the original FAC FAL receiver. Then CAI tried to tweak into a commonwealth design and jacked it up. Too bad you didn’t still have that stuff-you could quickly get an HRA FAL receiver out to market! Maybe @Mike_NDS has the back story on Coonan’s train wreck of an ending? However bought those molds and G-code could bring an FAL receiver quickly to market, too. |
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Quoted: A gray anodized M16A2 would be easy to do. But they’ed most likely have to be made with the current forgings. There’s a forging thread in the A2 forum iirc I have one of the gray McKay lowers yall we're selling back in the day. It turned into a beautiful A2 clone. |
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Quoted: My humble suggestion is that the first major investment of this wonderful new venture should be the tooling and equipment for roll marking lowers! Not a bad suggestion. Although I would settle for a simple increase in volume of the product they’re (NDS) known for. The only issue I’ve ever had with NoDakSpud is the constant out of stock issues found everywhere today. |
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Quoted: I proposed merging the A2 section w/ Retro - once. I thought a carry handle section made sense, albeit the A2 is still in service. Both sides were vociferous in their rejection of my idea. I'd figure as much. As for right now, the A2 section is on virtual life support. Last week I posted up an A2 upper in PIF hoping to stir up some interest. Got nothing, not even a nibble. That's sad 'cause the A2 is a fine platform. |
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Quoted: Same here. Interested in the back stories of FAC. Based off some distinct, proprietary engineering, I am positive that Century Arms wound up with the mold and G-code for the original FAC FAL receiver. Then CAI tried to tweak into a commonwealth design and jacked it up. Too bad you didn’t still have that stuff-you could quickly get an HRA FAL receiver out to market! Maybe @Mike_NDS has the back story on Coonan’s train wreck of an ending? However bought those molds and G-code could bring an FAL receiver quickly to market, too. I honestly don’t know what happened to Coonan Inc after we left in 2008. They made some pistols, had a booth at Shot etc. It is a sweet shooting pistol, but too big for carry. More of a BBQ gun. We talked to Danny a few times afterwards but mostly topical stuff. The FAC Fal was made on Danny’s casting tool. It always had issues with warping during cooling. The parts had to be straightened. If anybody bought it I have no idea. It would be a hard pass for me knowing what I know about the issues. Forgings for the win. |
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Quoted: I honestly don’t know what happened to Coonan Inc after we left in 2008. They made some pistols, had a booth at Shot etc. It is a sweet shooting pistol, but too big for carry. More of a BBQ gun. We talked to Danny a few times afterwards but mostly topical stuff. The FAC Fal was made on Danny’s casting tool. It always had issues with warping during cooling. The parts had to be straightened. If anybody bought it I have no idea. It would be a hard pass for me knowing what I know about the issues. Forgings for the win. Brazilian 5.56x45mm FAL clone? |
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Quoted: You might want to talk to them double quick before you find an ARFCOMer cybersquatting on multiple domains, and will only sell for 87 working Reising magazines. Quoted: Quoted: There will be an H&R website set up. I have not talked with the IT people yet. You might want to talk to them double quick before you find an ARFCOMer cybersquatting on multiple domains, and will only sell for 87 working Reising magazines. Domains are easy to get from others.....especially if they purchased after a product announcement. |
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Quoted: HenryKnoxFineBooks posted: “Typically, when a small speciality company gets bought out, there is the promise of nothing changing, only now there will be more resources to produce what made the small company attractive for the buyout. The small company is frequently successful because it will serve a market niche that large companies did not find profitable. A reason for that success is the investment in the cost of production and quality that results in a lower margin, but appeals to the market leaders that make the product popular. Within a year, the popular product is withdrawn and level of service quality declines - we shall see if this will be the exception.” In my opinion if you want something from Nodak buy it now. I bought an AK pistol from Palmetto State Armory and it was a gauntlet of BS to try and get them to repair it. Seriously, if there is a negative comment about Nodak’ quality I’ve yet to hear it. On the other hand to all you cheerleaders who think this is a wonder thing I suggest you read the comments about Palmetto State Armory (PSA) on the Better Business Bureau website or look at what people have stated on the “Ripoff Report” about PSA. I believe there will shortly be two kinds of Nodak products: those produced BEFORE PSA bought them out and those produced AFTER PSA bought them out and the prices will reflect that. You’ve been warned. Oh man. After I started reading this thread I decided I needed another "Tabuk" style flashider for one of my AKs. I already have one for my Zastava M91 but liked the way it looked on my Zastava M70 ZPAP. I left a voicemail with them on Sat or Sun, can;t really remember, but somebody called me on Mon and took my order. I asked for a blem and when I received it, it looked almost flawless, with just very, very minor discoloration (only a few pin-points, really). If you had them side-by-side you would be hard-pressed to tell which was which. Damn, I hope PSA continues the great CS that NDS is famous for (I doubt it). 
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Quoted: Getting a set ready for SHOT Show. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91277/470810FF-F402-4E30-88D8-4CD188647521-2210730.jpg that's beautiful! I'll finally be able to build my 727 clone! 
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Quoted: Same here. Interested in the back stories of FAC. Based off some distinct, proprietary engineering, I am positive that Century Arms wound up with the mold and G-code for the original FAC FAL receiver. Then CAI tried to tweak into a commonwealth design and jacked it up. Too bad you didn't still have that stuff-you could quickly get an HRA FAL receiver out to market! Maybe @Mike_NDS has the back story on Coonan's train wreck of an ending? However bought those molds and G-code could bring an FAL receiver quickly to market, too. Quoted: Quoted: Side note here. As a gun guy, I find the thought of industry campfire talk to be pretty interesting. I bet Jman and Mike probably have tons of interesting tales. Jman, I admit that I find myself curious about AAC. Any stories you could share with us? Must be one heck of a thing to watch from your perspective. They're still in the Remington facility, right? Mike, one of your previous posts in this thread put the idea into my head again. I always found Federal Arms to be an interesting company. Used to enjoy flipping through their catalog. Any interesting stories you or Harlan could share? What happened to them, anyway? I never did dig into it but it seemed like they were everywhere, then one day they vanished. Same here. Interested in the back stories of FAC. Based off some distinct, proprietary engineering, I am positive that Century Arms wound up with the mold and G-code for the original FAC FAL receiver. Then CAI tried to tweak into a commonwealth design and jacked it up. Too bad you didn't still have that stuff-you could quickly get an HRA FAL receiver out to market! Maybe @Mike_NDS has the back story on Coonan's train wreck of an ending? However bought those molds and G-code could bring an FAL receiver quickly to market, too. The retro forum seems like a great place for this type of discussion, particularly given the interest in historical firearms preservation and knowledge, here. In particular, I find the destruction of Remington and the rest of the companies Cerberus/Freedom Group swallowed up and destroyed to be particularly interesting, and truly a damn shame. I was initially pretty happy to see PSA pick a few of the ashes of AAC and DPMS from the bankruptcy sale, just as they've done with H and R, after Freedom destroyed Marlin. I realize those involved are sometimes hesitant to talk about these things, often times because they aren't motivated to do so, but it truly is a shame, because this type of stuff winds up lost to history. The very thing many of the quite brilliant and talented members of this forum try to prevent. While I don't post very often, I am truly amazed and in awe at some of the wonderful historical knowledge and findings of the members of the retro forum. FAC sure did some interesting things. It was crazy to see them vanish so quickly. I must have gotten 1000 of their catalogs and then one day they just stopped and suddenly Fed Arms was no more. |
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I wonder if there is much of a market for an H&R Garand while CMP is selling real USGI ones. For whatever reason the cast commercial versions Century and SA made never seemed to capture much interest. No need for a retro one when you can get the real thing. The mag fed ones don't do much for me. The AR-10 market is another story - selling retro and modern AR-10 products should be a good business. PSA already seemed to be taking over the AR-10 market when DPMS was around. I'd like to see a focus on pencil barrels and light weight components. Retro ARs as complete rifles would be great. I can see people adding one of each flavor if they can be had at PSA pricing. The Fal market has a lot of potential if you can gear up to make all the parts and compete with DSA pricing. The parts kits have pretty much dried up. |
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Period dead-nuts-on correct furniture and small parts might have a lot of immediate buyers. These would be things like correct smooth front sight bases, switches, bolt release levers, and all that stuff. Also picking up where Brownells left off when they gave up on producing period correct AR-10 furniture. Then you could explore manufacturing correct A2 parts. Best of luck and great success to you in this. |
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Quoted: It really is an interesting subject, particularly from a historical standpoint. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. The retro forum seems like a great place for this type of discussion, particularly given the interest in historical firearms preservation and knowledge, here. In particular, I find the destruction of Remington and the rest of the companies Cerberus/Freedom Group swallowed up and destroyed to be particularly interesting, and truly a damn shame. I was initially pretty happy to see PSA pick a few of the ashes of AAC and DPMS from the bankruptcy sale, just as they've done with H and R, after Freedom destroyed Marlin. I realize those involved are sometimes hesitant to talk about these things, often times because they aren't motivated to do so, but it truly is a shame, because this type of stuff winds up lost to history. The very thing many of the quite brilliant and talented members of this forum try to prevent. While I don't post very often, I am truly amazed and in awe at some of the wonderful historical knowledge and findings of the members of the retro forum. FAC sure did some interesting things. It was crazy to see them vanish so quickly. I must have gotten 1000 of their catalogs and then one day they just stopped and suddenly Fed Arms was no more. They don’t tell the stories to protect themselves and the industry. Because the best ones aren’t always flattering.  Plus, many companies have NDA’s. FAC went under because the owner spent more on print advertising than getting in products to sell. It was truly that simple. |
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Quoted: Period dead-nuts-on correct furniture and small parts might have a lot of immediate buyers. These would be things like correct smooth front sight bases, switches, bolt release levers, and all that stuff. Also picking up where Brownells left off when they gave up on producing period correct AR-10 furniture. Then you could explore manufacturing correct A2 parts. Best of luck and great success to you in this. There was a reason Brownells quit doing that - it didn't sell. Why would anyone else jump into that tiny niche market? |
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Quoted: I missed this reply, agree 100%. Laser engraving is fine for modern guns, but roll marks are way better. I am a lover of traditional rollmarks too. But the day of rollmarking for mass production is gone. Unless you already have those machine in place (ie. some S&W revolvers still use rollmarking in current production), cost is prohibited. Even Colt is largely stay away from that process today as roll die break over time and replacing one is not cheap. Maybe H&R can team up with INTL MIL CO to make licensed limited edition with rollmark for those willing to pay the premium. |
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Quoted: shhhh you might cause H&R to reconsider starting this whole enterprise altogether Quoted: Quoted: There was a reason Brownells quit doing that - it didn't sell. Why would anyone else jump into that tiny niche market? shhhh you might cause H&R to reconsider starting this whole enterprise altogether Lol. NoDak Spud was bought to facilitate H&R's entry into the retro market - and to eliminate the competition. It's not that H&R won't make retro products - but handguards for low production obsolete machine guns that haven't been produced for 60 years is perhaps not the best ROI they're gonna get. |
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Quoted: I think we need to do a 653 and an Israeli carbine. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91277/Ranger_JPEG-921180.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91277/Israeli_Carbine2-909100.jpg I agree so much it hurts. |
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Quoted: There was a reason Brownells quit doing that - it didn't sell. Why would anyone else jump into that tiny niche market? The market for historical reproductions is fickle. The size of the market for an item depends on (A) Popularity - Items related to the American Revolution, War between the States, WWI, and WWII are more popular than stuff used in the Spanish American War. How many people know about the AR10 compared to the M16A1? (B) Price - Note that "re-issue" Colt A1 and XM177s did not rapidly sell out at $2500 and 1911 and 1911A1s same story. (C) Accuracy - How close it it to the original? Do I need a magnifying glass to spot the differences, or can I tell it is not the original item from 25 feet away. You have to balance price against accuracy at a given popularity. Those who want AR10 handguards realize they won't be cheap, so you better make them good. The market for retro A1s and XM177s is less fickle, so price will matter to some percentage (half?) of the market. There are Civil War re-enactors that will take a $1200 reproduction 1853 Enfield or 1861 Springfield, and send it along with another $750 to $1000 to have the stock reprofiled correctly, better hardware substituted, and the modern manufacturer info removed and replaced by copies of original inspector's stamps by one of the three people who do that on nights and weekends. For the last 5 years, I have used nothing but 80% lowers in order to get copies of weapons I carried engraved and anodized at a cost of some $300 to $350 per lower. Seem odd? How much is a Colt C MP C barrel going for these days? It appears to be the PSA strategy to use H&R as the historical weapons branch of PSA. I suspect first priority is to turn out H&R A1s and XM177s at $1500 or less into the retro market. The Colt experience indicates the $2500 price point is too high for the average buyer. I would think that when you have customers waiting a year for stuff like even 80% lowers, that would be a priority, but that isn't where PSA appears to be. They have already invested in a brand name and "retro" production. I suspect the Garand and M14 clones will be an entirely new level of difficulty compared to mass producing ARs. Enormous effort was put into receiver production and SA plus the contractors could not produce the quantities needed for WWII and the Cold War. In WWII only infantrymen in the rifle companies were issued Garands, and even four years into production of the M14, most of US Army Europe still were carrying Garands. |
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What I asked for was dead nuts on period correct furniture for early M16 family guns. There's plenty of cheap and not great furniture out there already, in stock and at a low price. But people will pay handsomely for authentic minty and used CAR handguards. And when DoubleStar resumed making CAR-15 stocks that were basically indistinguishable from the vintage article with the only really telling clue was that they're brand spanking new, I think it shows the market will pay for quality repros and let the poor excuse retro parts languish in dealers inventory. I'd imagine that's the marketable question of what H&R resurrected would have to weigh: Are they in the quality repros business, or just stamping out retro-ish upper/lower receivers and letting customers go stumbling around trying to collect all other suitable vintage small parts elsewhere like we already have been doing for years? |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - JJE-H&R LLC acquisition of NoDak Spud (Page 6 of 89)
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