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Ok, I get your point, and I know that 3 shot groups are statistically irrelevant, and people cherry pick them to post online.....but that's still really impressive nonetheless. 
Then you might also like this group. The group pictured below was fired from one of my other Krieger barreled AR-15s at a distance of 100 yards using a hand-load topped with the Hornady 53 grain V-MAX. The group has an extreme spread of 0.079 MOA. 
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24" barrel with a 5.56mm Match chamber and a 1:7.7" twist. .. Quoted:
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What barrel length, twist rate and chamber? 24" barrel with a 5.56mm Match chamber and a 1:7.7" twist. .. I had a Compass Lake Service Rifle with a Kreiger barrel. It was easily the most accurate barrel I've every owned. Same as above, 7.75 twist. I have gotten 3/4" @ 100 yards with 5 shots with iron sights more than once back when my eyes were stronger. Fantastic barrel in my opinion... |
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Then you might also like this group. The group pictured below was fired from one of my other Krieger barreled AR-15s at a distance of 100 yards using a hand-load topped with the Hornady 53 grain A-MAX. The group has an extreme spread of 0.079 MOA.
https://app.box.com/shared/static/cm60tyf452ozsthdn26e74fcml0dx1s3.jpg .... Quoted:
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Ok, I get your point, and I know that 3 shot groups are statistically irrelevant, and people cherry pick them to post online.....but that's still really impressive nonetheless.
Then you might also like this group. The group pictured below was fired from one of my other Krieger barreled AR-15s at a distance of 100 yards using a hand-load topped with the Hornady 53 grain A-MAX. The group has an extreme spread of 0.079 MOA.
https://app.box.com/shared/static/cm60tyf452ozsthdn26e74fcml0dx1s3.jpg .... Molon, in your opinion, how much of this is the barrel vs skill? I see that most of the groups you post are pretty awesome. Also, on average, do your kreiger (and other similarly precise barrels) shoot this way from the start, or do they require some break-in? -Freq |
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Molon, in your opinion, how much of this is the barrel vs skill? I see that most of the groups you post are pretty awesome. Also, on average, do your kreiger (and other similarly precise barrels) shoot this way from the start, or do they require some break-in? -Freq Quoted:
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Ok, I get your point, and I know that 3 shot groups are statistically irrelevant, and people cherry pick them to post online.....but that's still really impressive nonetheless.
Then you might also like this group. The group pictured below was fired from one of my other Krieger barreled AR-15s at a distance of 100 yards using a hand-load topped with the Hornady 53 grain A-MAX. The group has an extreme spread of 0.079 MOA.
https://app.box.com/shared/static/cm60tyf452ozsthdn26e74fcml0dx1s3.jpg .... Molon, in your opinion, how much of this is the barrel vs skill? I see that most of the groups you post are pretty awesome. Also, on average, do your kreiger (and other similarly precise barrels) shoot this way from the start, or do they require some break-in? -Freq Yes, info on your break in procedure please  .
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Molon, in your opinion, how much of this is the barrel vs skill? One isn't much good without the other. Also, on average, do your kreiger (and other similarly precise barrels) shoot this way from the start, or do they require some break-in? Most of my precision barrels are given a break-in procedure. |
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Yes, info on your break in procedure please .
The first bore-scope pic below is from the leade of one of my brand-new Krieger AR-15 barrels (that was purchased directly from Krieger and that was chambered and hand-lapped by Krieger). As you can see in the pic, there are still tooling marks on the lands in the leade running perpendicular to the bore direction. The barrel won't shoot to its potential until those tool marks have been removed. 
When breaking-in a barrel, you need to do something that completely removes the tooling marks on the lands in the leade. The next bore-scope view is from the same barrel as pictured above, after being broken-in. 
And here’s what an AR-15 barrel that has been properly broken-in can do . . . 
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The first bore-scope pic below is from the leade of one of my brand-new Krieger AR-15 barrels (that was purchased directly from Krieger and that was chambered and hand-lapped by Krieger). As you can see in the pic, there are still tooling marks on the lands in the leade running perpendicular to the bore direction. The barrel won't shoot to its potential until those tool marks have been removed. https://app.box.com/shared/static/xw1pctrgrx0vha0gdsj8j7dkdtijqhyp.jpg When breaking-in a barrel, you need to do something that completely removes the tooling marks on the lands in the leade. The next bore-scope view is from the same barrel as pictured above, after being broken-in. https://app.box.com/shared/static/2koe5zz4o1js1g3t0a3l28z8q75s7zld.jpg And here’s what an AR-15 barrel that has been properly broken-in can do . . . https://app.box.com/shared/static/c3nj830tjxcph7zq8vm7.jpg http://www.box.net/shared/static/4zc0he19fq.jpg .... Quoted:
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Yes, info on your break in procedure please .
The first bore-scope pic below is from the leade of one of my brand-new Krieger AR-15 barrels (that was purchased directly from Krieger and that was chambered and hand-lapped by Krieger). As you can see in the pic, there are still tooling marks on the lands in the leade running perpendicular to the bore direction. The barrel won't shoot to its potential until those tool marks have been removed. https://app.box.com/shared/static/xw1pctrgrx0vha0gdsj8j7dkdtijqhyp.jpg When breaking-in a barrel, you need to do something that completely removes the tooling marks on the lands in the leade. The next bore-scope view is from the same barrel as pictured above, after being broken-in. https://app.box.com/shared/static/2koe5zz4o1js1g3t0a3l28z8q75s7zld.jpg And here’s what an AR-15 barrel that has been properly broken-in can do . . . https://app.box.com/shared/static/c3nj830tjxcph7zq8vm7.jpg http://www.box.net/shared/static/4zc0he19fq.jpg .... So what procedure do you follow? Asking because I have a Knights LPR with a kreiger that I am breaking in, and if at some point I can manage to produce groups twice the size of yours , I will be doing backflips. -Freq |
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What about poking holes in your target with a pencil? Quoted:
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Not commenting on the groups in picture or intent of this thread as to do so confuses me. Sub-1/10th-MOA is sub-1/10th-MOA! .... Or you could always pull the scam of moving the target up much closer and claiming your 3 round group was at 100. What about poking holes in your target with a pencil? Not easy to find a .224 sized pencil of course. You would have to get a custom made tactical model to do it that way. 
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Molon,
I have had my eye on a barrel at Krieger Direct for a precision AR (sort of Dream Build). Initially, I was thinking along the lines of a Wilson Combat or Noveske before I was informed of other options. The 20" DCM HBAR. Have you used this particular barrel? Would you recommend it? And which chambering would you recommend? 5.56 Match or 223 Wylde? I do not reload and probably wont until my children get bigger and I have more time. |
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Molon, I have had my eye on a barrel at Krieger Direct for a precision AR (sort of Dream Build). Initially, I was thinking along the lines of a Wilson Combat or Noveske before I was informed of other options. The 20" DCM HBAR. Have you used this particular barrel? Would you recommend it? And which chambering would you recommend? 5.56 Match or 223 Wylde? I do not reload and probably wont until my children get bigger and I have more time. I've owned three of the Krieger DCM barrels. They were all fine shooters; however, their profile is constrained by the rules of High Power Service Rifle Competition. If I was building strictly for precision, I'd be considering a thicker profile. 20" Krieger DCM 
As for chambers . . . 24" Krieger with 223 Remington chamber
24" Krieger with 5.56mm Match chamber 
24" Krieger 
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Or you could always pull the scam of moving the target up much closer and claiming your 3 round group was at 100. Quoted:
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Not commenting on the groups in picture or intent of this thread as to do so confuses me. Sub-1/10th-MOA is sub-1/10th-MOA! .... Or you could always pull the scam of moving the target up much closer and claiming your 3 round group was at 100. I get 100-MOA at 1/10 of a yard.
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I'm getting better groups with my daniel defense and 4x optic than he is with that Walther he's got, using some ammunition. I don't handload, so I can't compete with the tailored ammo groups he's shooting, but I know he's a better trigger puller than I am, and hte fact that I'm getting better 10 shot groups with a CHF chrome-lined .gov barrel and 4x optic than he is with a rest and a 25x scope tells me that Walther barrel is rather "meh". At least, that's my interpretation of events. His Kreiger was on point. Quoted:
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That said, your Krieger was much better than your Walther, based on the groups you're posting. Molon has me chasing groups now. I'll be working out with a WOA 22-inch match barrel this weekend. I just hope the wind stays down. I'm getting better groups with my daniel defense and 4x optic than he is with that Walther he's got, using some ammunition. I don't handload, so I can't compete with the tailored ammo groups he's shooting, but I know he's a better trigger puller than I am, and hte fact that I'm getting better 10 shot groups with a CHF chrome-lined .gov barrel and 4x optic than he is with a rest and a 25x scope tells me that Walther barrel is rather "meh". At least, that's my interpretation of events. His Kreiger was on point. I must have missed your thread where you posted a pic of a 10-shot group fired from your DD barrel using Black Hills 5.56mm MK262 Mod 1 ammunition that had an extreme spread that was smaller than 0.96" at 100 yards . . . 
. . . or your thread where you posted a pic of a 10-shot group fired from your DD barrel using Black Hills 5.56mm 77 grain Tipped MatchKing ammunition that had an extreme spread that was smaller than 1.14" at 100 yards . . . 
. . . or your thread where you posted a pic of a 10-shot group fired from your DD barrel using Barnes 5.56mm 85 grain OTM ammunition that had an extreme spread that was smaller than 0.76" at 100 yards. . . . 
. . . or your thread where you posted a pic of a 10-shot group fired from your DD barrel using Hornady 5.56mm 70 grain GMX TAP Barrier ammunition that had an extreme spread that was smaller than 1.16" at 100 yards . . . 
. . . or your thread where you posted a pic of a 10-shot group fired from your DD barrel using Hornady 5.56mm 75 grain TAP SBR ammunition that had an extreme spread that was smaller than 0.93" at 100 yards . . . 
. . . or your thread where you posted a pic of a 10-shot group fired from your DD barrel using Federal LE223T3 ammunition that had an extreme spread that was smaller than 0.87" at 100 yards . . . 
. . . or your thread where you posted a pic of a 10-shot group fired from your DD barrel using GECO 223 Remington 55 grain FMJ ammunition that had an extreme spread that was smaller than 1.06" at 100 yards . . . 
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