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Posted: 5/4/2021 12:19:15 PM EDT
[#1]
SFP is going to feel bigger and brighter than FFP 95% of the time. For the ones you've listed where I have experience, you'll see top 1x performance in this order:
Razor > Kahles > ATACR > Credo > VCOG I have no experience with the S&B 1-8s. If you're set on FFP, the ATACR is the easy answer. The SAI 1-6x might be something, but I haven't seen on in person. ETA: I own the ATACR and NX8. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 12:24:19 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SFP is going to feel bigger and brighter than FFP 95% of the time. For the ones you've listed where I have experience, you'll see top 1x performance in this order: Razor > Kahles > ATACR > Credo > VCOG I have no experience with the S&B 1-8s. If you're set on FFP, the ATACR is the easy answer. The SAI 1-6x might be something, but I haven't seen on in person. ETA: I own the ATACR and NX8. Thanks for the reply. You think ATACR is a significant upgrade from the NX8? VCOG sucks or what? Interesting about SFP, never had one. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 12:30:20 PM EDT
[#3]
I have a 1-8x Atibal in SFP and FFP. I can't tell any difference in brightness at 1x.
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Posted: 5/4/2021 2:58:39 PM EDT
[#4]
I just ordered a Kahles K16i after a lot of research and YouTube watching. The consensus on the Kahles seems to be the eye box, field of view, and glass are awesome. What sold me was that in combination with the weight.
It was a tough choice since I couldn’t see any of the options in person. There are a lot of strong opinions out there on optics and sorting through the hyperbole on the internet is annoying. Edit: My opinion on FFP vs SFP is with a max magnification under 10x FFP isn’t needed. If I’m shooting beyond point distances I have time to bump it up to max magnification. It’s just not a useful feature to me in an LPVO. I did consider the NX8 but it has a unique reticle with a dot and segmented circle in the center that are quite large and visible at 1x. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 4:11:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the reply. You think ATACR is a significant upgrade from the NX8? VCOG sucks or what? Interesting about SFP, never had one. I only have a little time with a VCOG, but neither version (6x or 8x) excited me that much. The NX8 is plenty capable and a great scope, but the ATACR is an obvious upgrade. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 4:13:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a 1-8x Atibal in SFP and FFP. I can't tell any difference in brightness at 1x. 1 - If they are the same optical design, and capable of having the reticle in either focal plane, they will feel very similar. 2 - At that price point, there will be enough unit-to-unit variation that you might need to review a larger number of them to see the trend expose itself. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 4:59:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Pretty sure best eye box and brightest belongs to the Razor.
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Posted: 5/4/2021 5:01:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just ordered a Kahles K16i after a lot of research and YouTube watching. The consensus on the Kahles seems to be the eye box, field of view, and glass are awesome. What sold me was that in combination with the weight. It was a tough choice since I couldn’t see any of the options in person. There are a lot of strong opinions out there on optics and sorting through the hyperbole on the internet is annoying. Edit: My opinion on FFP vs SFP is with a max magnification under 10x FFP isn’t needed. If I’m shooting beyond point distances I have time to bump it up to max magnification. It’s just not a useful feature to me in an LPVO. I did consider the NX8 but it has a unique reticle with a dot and segmented circle in the center that are quite large and visible at 1x. Kahles seems like an obvious easy choice, but I've always wanted to try the VCOG & SB. Yes, internet hyperbole indeed. I usually just do a ton of buying, trying, selling, buy it, try it, sell it. ... which is what I'll end up doing. Funny, after owning just the NX8 and Razor, never gave the SFP much thought. Sounds like the way to go on this one. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 5:03:03 PM EDT
[#9]
I haven't used either, but the ATACR and the S&B Dual CC both seem to have very large eyeboxes, larger than most of the 1-6s on the market.
 S&B PMII 1-8 Dual CC - Red Dot Dimming ATACR video However, since they also seem to have more ocular obstruction and smaller FoVs, and the S&B in particular doesn't seem to handle off axis dimming as well, they probably would not be my first choices if I were primarily concerned with 1x performance. I haven't looked through a K16i, but I have looked through a Swarovski Z6i, which is probably internally similar. My impression was that the overall eyebox size was similar to the Razor Gen 2, though it "sets in" differently. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 5:04:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I only have a little time with a VCOG, but neither version (6x or 8x) excited me that much. The NX8 is plenty capable and a great scope, but the ATACR is an obvious upgrade. Yeah, haven't found much info on the VCOG. Eye box/ 1x brightness? Yup, NX gtg. ATACR in the running. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 5:14:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure best eye box and brightest belongs to the Razor. Sold my gen 2 quite a while ago, but dare I say I don't want an orange scope on this rifle. :|| I'll even go on record saying the VCOG and S&B look awesome, and it's a factor. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 5:15:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, haven't found much info on the VCOG. Eye box/ 1x brightness? Yup, NX gtg. ATACR in the running. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I only have a little time with a VCOG, but neither version (6x or 8x) excited me that much. The NX8 is plenty capable and a great scope, but the ATACR is an obvious upgrade. Yeah, haven't found much info on the VCOG. Eye box/ 1x brightness? Yup, NX gtg. ATACR in the running. The 1-6x VCOG isn’t even in the same league as the others mentioned. Reticle illumination sucks and eyebox is mediocre. 1-8x VCOG is allegedly a bit better. The K16i is the best I’ve ever used for 1x performance, even slightly edging out the Razor IMO. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 5:18:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven't used either, but the ATACR and the S&B Dual CC both seem to have very large eyeboxes, larger than most of the 1-6s on the market.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7liEE1C5_PkATACR video However, since they also seem to have more ocular obstruction and smaller FoVs, and the S&B in particular doesn't seem to handle off axis dimming as well, they probably would not be my first choices if I were primarily concerned with 1x performance. I haven't looked through a K16i, but I have looked through a Swarovski Z6i, which is probably internally similar. My impression was that the overall eyebox size was similar to the Razor Gen 2, though it "sets in" differently. Yeah, after some more research I'm thinking the SB may not be worth the investment. As much as I loved the NX8, I didn't love the eye box and ocular obstruction, so ATACR may be a stretch but I'd still love to try it. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 5:20:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 1-6x VCOG isn’t even in the same league as the others mentioned. Reticle illumination sucks and eyebox is mediocre. 1-8x VCOG is allegedly a bit better. The K16i is the best I’ve ever used for 1x performance, even slightly edging out the Razor IMO. Ok, interesting on the VCOG. Did you own/ try one? Yeah, Kahles seems to be the fan favorite. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 5:24:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Worth noting. This LPVO is just for a fun rifle. Although I mainly run Comp M5's, I dig the ACOG/ offset T2 for a do all as well.
Curious about the Credo as well. Price wise, not in the same league but may be worth a try, and aside from the huge white logo, it looks decent. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 5:42:52 PM EDT
[#16]
The VCOG 1-6 generally isn't regarded as daylight bright, if you're looking for that kind of illumination. I'd call it more mid-high level daylight visible:
  The FoV is also quite small and it's very heavy for a 1-6 (weighs more than the S&B Dual CC, although the VCOG can use lighter weight mounts that put it at approximate parity); it'd probably be my last choice on the list. That being said, I haven't looked through one myself, so I can't personally report on the optic qualities. For a recreational optic the Credo HX LED Dot would probably work well, but judging from most reports, I doubt it'd offer anything noticeable over the Razor besides weight. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 6:10:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Following...
I'm in the same boat. I have an NX8 and it's nuclear bright. Setting 6 is already plenty bright. But I wanna try the ATACR 1-8, or VCOG 1-8 or 1-6. I think the VCOG green reticle doubles the battery life. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 6:13:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, interesting on the VCOG. Did you own/ try one? Yeah, Kahles seems to be the fan favorite. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The 1-6x VCOG isn’t even in the same league as the others mentioned. Reticle illumination sucks and eyebox is mediocre. 1-8x VCOG is allegedly a bit better. The K16i is the best I’ve ever used for 1x performance, even slightly edging out the Razor IMO. Ok, interesting on the VCOG. Did you own/ try one? Yeah, Kahles seems to be the fan favorite. Yes, owned a 1-6x for about 6 months and almost immediately went back to an Elcan. Never owned a 1-8x. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 6:25:42 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the reply. You think ATACR is a significant upgrade from the NX8? VCOG sucks or what? Interesting about SFP, never had one. The NX8 and ATACR play different roles, so it depends on your intended use. ATACR is more of a DMR optic that can do 1x; it's illumination isn't as bright as the NX8 and it has a smaller FoV at 1x, but has nicer glass, especially at higher mag. The reticle is better designed for a DMR role as well. The NX8 is more of a lightweight compact CQB optic with a higher mag for PID and minute of man accuracy. The NX8 already has the brightest illumination of those on your list. Although if I wasn't happy with that option, the Kahles would definitely be my next choice up. I wouldn't even consider the VCOG if illumination is important to you, a red reticle may be visible at day, but it is nowhere close to RDS brightness in daylight. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 6:56:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Two factors might be a part of this: 1 - If they are the same optical design, and capable of having the reticle in either focal plane, they will feel very similar. 2 - At that price point, there will be enough unit-to-unit variation that you might need to review a larger number of them to see the trend expose itself. 3 - it could also be my eyes or brain is unable to detect a noticeable difference. If I was feeling ambitious, I could actually test this more scientifically using a camera and my bench-block, but I'm too damn lazy. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 8:47:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The VCOG 1-6 generally isn't regarded as daylight bright, if you're looking for that kind of illumination. I'd call it more mid-high level daylight visible: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/VCOG_5.jpg https://i0.wp.com/tacticalgunreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Trijicon-VCOG-at-100-yards-at-6x.jpg?resize=600%2C338 The FoV is also quite small and it's very heavy for a 1-6 (weighs more than the S&B Dual CC, although the VCOG can use lighter weight mounts that put it at approximate parity); it'd probably be my last choice on the list. That being said, I haven't looked through one myself, so I can't personally report on the optic qualities. For a recreational optic the Credo HX LED Dot would probably work well, but judging from most reports, I doubt it'd offer anything noticeable over the Razor besides weight. Appreciate the VCOG info. Just based on a quick comparison in the LGS, the Credo seemed to be very close to the Razor but I personally can't tell much until I run em side by side for a couple hours. I'm always curious about durability in this realm too... |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 8:49:12 PM EDT
[#22]
At this moment, Credo, Kahles or...........
I have a limit to how much internet I can stomach on things like this. |
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Posted: 5/5/2021 12:01:26 AM EDT
[#23]
Deal on the K16i right now if you wanna jump in.
https://www.larue.com/products/kahles-k16i-1-6x24-rifle-scope-30mm-with-larue-qd-mount/ I almost bought it, its similar to my NX8 in size/weight and I like the SL1 reticle but I'm going to hold off buying for now, I don't need it as my second rifle wears a prism and I'm undecided if it'll get an LPVO or not. I feel like this would be perfect tho, choices.... |
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Posted: 5/5/2021 1:52:35 AM EDT
[#24]
Razor or Kahles.
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Posted: 5/5/2021 11:25:41 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SFP is going to feel bigger and brighter than FFP 95% of the time. For the ones you've listed where I have experience, you'll see top 1x performance in this order: Razor > Kahles > ATACR > Credo > VCOG I have no experience with the S&B 1-8s. If you're set on FFP, the ATACR is the easy answer. The SAI 1-6x might be something, but I haven't seen on in person. ETA: I own the ATACR and NX8. I would put Kahles ahead of the Razor in terms of eyebox and general performance at 1x. However, I’d put the Razor in front of Kahles (1-6) in terms of illumination brightness. The Kahles 1-6 feels like it needs to be go just a little farther in terms of brightness. At the same time it’s fully visible in noonday Texas sun and doesn’t effect speed or performance. The Kahles 1-8 is brighter that the 1-6. |
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Posted: 5/5/2021 11:26:50 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the reply. You think ATACR is a significant upgrade from the NX8? VCOG sucks or what? Interesting about SFP, never had one. Yes, I do. I’ve never been terribly impressed with the VCOG. It’s not bad in any way, just kind of “meh”. |
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Posted: 5/5/2021 11:57:22 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would put Kahles ahead of the Razor in terms of eyebox and general performance at 1x. However, I’d put the Razor in front of Kahles (1-6) in terms of illumination brightness. The Kahles 1-6 feels like it needs to be go just a little farther in terms of brightness. At the same time it’s fully visible in noonday Texas sun and doesn’t effect speed or performance. The Kahles 1-8 is brighter that the 1-6. Appreciate the input. Already sick of research, haha. I keep changing my mind but here's where I'm at currently, in this order. Kahles 1-6 ATACR 1-8 Credo 1-6 SFP |
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Posted: 5/5/2021 2:22:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Appreciate the input. Already sick of research, haha. I keep changing my mind but here's where I'm at currently, in this order. Kahles 1-6 ATACR 1-8 Credo 1-6 SFP Couldn't go wrong with any of those. But... I run the Kahles K16i, absolutely fantastic and highly recommend it. |
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Posted: 5/5/2021 7:04:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: I've had an NX8 and Razor HD gen 2 but wanna try something different. Shot a BCM SBR with the Kahles 1-6, it was nice, usually prefer FFP but not a dealbreaker. Played with Credo at LGS, not bad for under $1000. I don't want to do an offset on this one so 1x brightness/ eye box is more important than other factors. Durability, looks and a 30mm tube would be nice since I have a good mount already. At this point I'm considering these, but open to suggestions: VCOG 1-6 Kales 1-6 S&B short dot 1-8 Trijicon Credo 1-6 NF ATACR 1-8 Hoping people that actually owned and ran these can chime in. I have the 1-6 VCOG and the 1-8 VCOG. The 1-6 eyebox is fine, but the illumination is lacking. If you’re in the woods it’s bright and the green has a long battery life. Glass clarity it good but flat range on a bright day it’s dim. The 1-8 vcog is daylight visible but not nuclear bright where it blooms everywhere. But with a circle dot reticle I wouldn’t want it to bloom. I’m wanting to sell my 1-6 vcog and get a 1-6 credo since they’re brighter and lighter than my vcog. Trijicon stuff is durable, vortex will replace it but hit or miss on durability. I’m a big fan of . 1-8 accupower’s but those are 34mm, we just got NF atacr at work but I’ve yet to play with it. |
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Posted: 5/5/2021 11:25:29 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have the 1-6 VCOG and the 1-8 VCOG. The 1-6 eyebox is fine, but the illumination is lacking. If you’re in the woods it’s bright and the green has a long battery life. Glass clarity it good but flat range on a bright day it’s dim. The 1-8 vcog is daylight visible but not nuclear bright where it blooms everywhere. But with a circle dot reticle I wouldn’t want it to bloom. I’m wanting to sell my 1-6 vcog and get a 1-6 credo since they’re brighter and lighter than my vcog. Trijicon stuff is durable, vortex will replace it but hit or miss on durability. I’m a big fan of . 1-8 accupower’s but those are 34mm, we just got NF atacr at work but I’ve yet to play with it. Gotcha. Not much on the internets about Credo but some saying average eye box, not so bright. Love to try the ATACR but still sounds like it has a few minor drawbacks for $2600. Kahles still in the running but for some reason it doesn't excite me. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 5:18:18 AM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 5/6/2021 7:22:18 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gotcha. Not much on the internets about Credo but some saying average eye box, not so bright. Love to try the ATACR but still sounds like it has a few minor drawbacks for $2600. Kahles still in the running but for some reason it doesn't excite me. It probably doesn't because it already does what the others are trying to do. it's an older scope in comparison and not many people review it with the newer stuff. Out of the specs you want and the ones you're interested in, the K16i is the only answer. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 8:28:55 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, owned a 1-6x for about 6 months and almost immediately went back to an Elcan. Never owned a 1-8x. The biggest problem for me with the VGOC 1x6 wasn’t the brightness but the “tube effect”. The Elcan Specter DR feels like a 1x red dot optic that goes to 4x, the VGOG feels like a 6x scope that goes to 1x. And there was very little leeway in the VCOG eyebox. My eye had to be perfectly centered behind the VCOG - even off-center by the smallest amount and scope shadow was a huge issue. After trying the VCOG I went back to the Elcan too. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 9:24:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It probably doesn't because it already does what the others are trying to do. it's an older scope in comparison and not many people review it with the newer stuff. Out of the specs you want and the ones you're interested in, the K16i is the only answer. Makes sense. The other thing I'm thinking about is durability. I run the Aimpoints (And an ACOG) not only because they are great optics but I feel I can beat them up and trust them for a lifetime. I found very little info on this aspect of these optics, other than some folks stating the ATACR is bomb proof. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 9:25:50 AM EDT
[#35]
I have a K16i SM1 and I am so close to selling it to get 2 Credo HX 1-6s. It’s a great scope, but I don’t think it’s twice as good as a Credo HX. Maybe 15-20% and that’s probably just in the glass itself. I haven’t ran the Credo, but looking at it in the store, I was impressed.
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Posted: 5/6/2021 10:23:24 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a K16i SM1 and I am so close to selling it to get 2 Credo HX 1-6s. It's a great scope, but I don't think it's twice as good as a Credo HX. Maybe 15-20% and that's probably just in the glass itself. I haven't ran the Credo, but looking at it in the store, I was impressed. That's interesting. You know, there's a few reasons the Credo is still on my list (2900015). Here's what's riding on the rifle currently, but I usually run this with a Comp M5/ Scalarworks 1.93.  " /> |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 11:04:03 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a K16i SM1 and I am so close to selling it to get 2 Credo HX 1-6s. It's a great scope, but I don't think it's twice as good as a Credo HX. Maybe 15-20% and that's probably just in the glass itself. I haven't ran the Credo, but looking at it in the store, I was impressed. There's always going to be diminishing returns with these things. Is the Kahles worth twice the price of the Credo? To some, yes. To others, no. Although, I'd like to pick up a Credo at at some point for review. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 11:05:28 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's always going to be diminishing returns with these things. Is the Kahles worth twice the price of the Credo? To some, yes. To others, no. Although, I'd like to pick up a Credo at at some point for review. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have a K16i SM1 and I am so close to selling it to get 2 Credo HX 1-6s. It's a great scope, but I don't think it's twice as good as a Credo HX. Maybe 15-20% and that's probably just in the glass itself. I haven't ran the Credo, but looking at it in the store, I was impressed. There's always going to be diminishing returns with these things. Is the Kahles worth twice the price of the Credo? To some, yes. To others, no. Although, I'd like to pick up a Credo at at some point for review. I have a hard time selling it though without knowing if the Juice was worth the squeeze! |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 11:14:31 AM EDT
[#39]
I love my Credo! Not daylight bright by any means, but I don't need it. The reticles are crystal clear during the daytime!
 " /> " /> " />
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Posted: 5/6/2021 11:17:15 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I love my Credo! Not daylight bright by any means, but I don't need it. The reticles are crystal clear during the daytime! https://i.imgur.com/J2cSnbk.jpg" target="_blank">https://i.imgur.com/J2cSnbk.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Hvsddlf.jpg" target="_blank">https://i.imgur.com/Hvsddlf.jpg https://i.imgur.com/wIkAWWh.jpg" target="_blank">https://i.imgur.com/wIkAWWh.jpg Is that bottom pic with brightness all the way up? Which model # is it? What do you think about the eye box? Have you compared eye box to anything like a Razor or NX8? Thanks! |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 11:25:23 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that bottom pic with brightness all the way up? Which model # is it? What do you think about the eye box? Have you compared eye box to anything like a Razor or NX8? Thanks! No, the bottom pic is with the light off, to show that I don’t use the light during the day. If it was lowlight at dusk, I would turn it on. It’s the 1-4x Credo with green segmented circle reticle. The eye box at 1x is large and stays in focus whether you move back or left or right. The eye relief is pretty generous on this type scope. I’ve looked through some of the Razors at the shop, but never shot with them or compared them. I have 3 Trijicon scopes and they are all good enough for what I use them for. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 11:32:09 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, the bottom pic is with the light off, to show that I don’t use the light during the day. If it was lowlight at dusk, I would turn it on. It’s the 1-4x Credo with green segmented circle reticle. The eye box at 1x is large and stays in focus whether you move back or left or right. The eye relief is pretty generous on this type scope. I’ve looked through some of the Razors at the shop, but never shot with them or compared them. I have 3 Trijicon scopes and they are all good enough for what I use them for. Gotcha. That's what I figured. I did play with the 1-8 in bright daylight. The green washed out on full brightness against the grass but it wasn't too bad. Since I know where it stands with brightness and eye box, still curious on the durability. Thanks for the input! |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 11:43:26 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gotcha. That's what I figured. I did play with the 1-8 in bright daylight. The green washed out on full brightness against the grass but it wasn't too bad. Since I know where it stands with brightness and eye box, still curious on the durability. Thanks for the input! Trijicon has some of the best glass I've looked through. No fisheye on 1x and here I thought my Leupold VX3s had good glass! Here is my absolute favorite scope of all time, another Trijicon.  " /> |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 1:35:04 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 1-6x VCOG isn’t even in the same league as the others mentioned. Reticle illumination sucks and eyebox is mediocre. 1-8x VCOG is allegedly a bit better. The K16i is the best I’ve ever used for 1x performance, even slightly edging out the Razor IMO. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I only have a little time with a VCOG, but neither version (6x or 8x) excited me that much. The NX8 is plenty capable and a great scope, but the ATACR is an obvious upgrade. Yeah, haven't found much info on the VCOG. Eye box/ 1x brightness? Yup, NX gtg. ATACR in the running. The 1-6x VCOG isn’t even in the same league as the others mentioned. Reticle illumination sucks and eyebox is mediocre. 1-8x VCOG is allegedly a bit better. The K16i is the best I’ve ever used for 1x performance, even slightly edging out the Razor IMO. I have 2 K16i's and a Razor 1-6, and this is my observation as well; the K16i just edges out the Razor, but it's a small enough difference that it requires switching back and forth to notice. In actual use, they're both close enough that the difference is negligible. The K16i is noticeably lighter though. The Kahles horseshoe dot is very fast at closer ranges. I prefer the Razor's illumination control though (off positions between each of the settings, so you can select a preferred brightness and turn counterclockwise for Off, and 1 click clockwise for On straight to that brightness vs the Kahles continuous knob that requires you to dial to your preferred brightness setting from all the way counterclockwise from Off, each time). |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 3:38:18 PM EDT
[#45]
Slightly off topic but not really. Wondering if the Elcan 1-4 is a worthy candidate for good eye box/ 1x brightness. I Googled bombproof LPVO and was reminded about the Elcan.
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Posted: 5/6/2021 3:45:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Me, K16i for my SR15 in 11.5 (to keep a light weapon) and for the 14.5 it will be Razor 1-10.
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Posted: 5/6/2021 3:54:56 PM EDT
[#47]
I am currently struggling with this, thinking of offloading my Razor 1-6 and picking up something else. I really like the reticle of the Credo, I wish Vortex would do something similar, or use the ACCS Raptor reticle which looks really nice.
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Posted: 5/6/2021 3:59:38 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am currently struggling with this, thinking of offloading my Razor 1-6 and picking up something else. I really like the reticle of the Credo, I wish Vortex would do something similar, or use the ACCS Raptor reticle which looks really nice. I like the Credo reticle too. It's 2021, we have dozens of perfect* high magnified scopes and perfect red dots, but LPVO's all still seem to be hit or miss. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 5:32:24 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Slightly off topic but not really. Wondering if the Elcan 1-4 is a worthy candidate for good eye box/ 1x brightness. I Googled bombproof LPVO and was reminded about the Elcan. Quote HistoryQuoted: Slightly off topic but not really. Wondering if the Elcan 1-4 is a worthy candidate for good eye box/ 1x brightness. I Googled bombproof LPVO and was reminded about the Elcan. Yes. Illumination brightness seems about on par with the NX8 from reports, and the eyebox size appears to be similar to if not larger than the S&B Dual CC's from what I can tell. Unfortunately it does also have a lot of ocular occlusion like the Dual CC (although the FoV within the scope is also far larger) and it's slightly picky about the eye relief needed to attain that eyebox. Overall though it is probably one of the fastest 1x scopes on the market. Just be aware that it is not really built for recreational use and the scope's qualities reflect that. The factory mounting levers are also subpar but can be upgraded with the Mk2 ARMS levers. Not much on the internets about Credo but some saying average eye box, not so bright. The segmented circle reticles won't be daylight bright, but the HX LED models will be. You'll need to go with the latter if that's important to you, but this does limit your reticle options. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 6:15:16 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Illumination brightness seems about on par with the NX8 from reports, and the eyebox size appears to be similar to if not larger than the S&B Dual CC's from what I can tell. Unfortunately it does also have a lot of ocular occlusion like the Dual CC (although the FoV within the scope is also far larger) and it's slightly picky about the eye relief needed to attain that eyebox. Overall though it is probably one of the fastest 1x scopes on the market. Just be aware that it is not really built for recreational use and the scope's qualities reflect that. The factory mounting levers are also subpar but can be upgraded with the Mk2 ARMS levers. The segmented circle reticles won't be daylight bright, but the HX LED models will be. You'll need to go with the latter if that's important to you, but this does limit your reticle options. Well, that's some good info. Interesting about the Elcan. Any mounting options to raise it up to 1.7 or 1.93, aside from a pic riser? I didn't realize the Credo HX (Or just those different reticles HX offers) had different brightness. I can only assume you mean the HX crosshair reticles are brighter than the segmented circle, period? Yeah, I'd prefer the segmented circle, matte finish, but not a total dealbreaker. Especially if the HX was significantly brighter. Still a bit enamored with the ATACR |
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