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Posted: 8/14/2019 3:03:00 PM EDT
[#1]
I have the razor and love it. The Leupold firedots will probably fit the bill.
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Posted: 8/14/2019 3:03:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Hi all, Looking for recs on a riflescope with an illuminated DOT reticle. I don't like the ones that the whole reticle is illuminated. So far I've found the Steiner p4xi, the Razor HD Gen ii with the JM-1 BDC, the khales, and a Schmidt & Bender. The last two are a little out of my price range, and I'm looking for something more in line with the Steiner's price point, maybe a little higher. Are there any other scopes I should be considering? Thanks! |
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Posted: 8/14/2019 3:08:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Vortex viper pst gen 2 is close to the Steiner’s price. Supposedly 80% of the razor performance for half the price.
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Posted: 8/14/2019 4:10:35 PM EDT
[#4]
A friend has the Steiner P4xi and really likes it.
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Posted: 8/14/2019 4:16:58 PM EDT
[#5]
I think the burris xtr ii 1-5 is worth a mention. They can be had for $400-450ish.
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Posted: 8/14/2019 11:04:54 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the burris xtr ii 1-5 is worth a mention. They can be had for $400-450ish. |
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Posted: 8/15/2019 7:56:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. A few good looking scopes, but a few didn't have that single dot illumination. I think I'm gonna grab the Steiner an be happy with it.
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Posted: 8/16/2019 9:09:54 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Vortex viper pst gen 2 is close to the Steiner’s price. Supposedly 80% of the razor performance for half the price. |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 9:13:18 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By @Leudast:
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. A few good looking scopes, but a few didn't have that single dot illumination. I think I'm gonna grab the Steiner an be happy with it. |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 10:42:03 AM EDT
[#10]
You know, I just realized the pst gen 2 has an illuminated dot. They don't do a great job (or any job at all) of highlighting that on their website. When you google their reticle it comes back with images of the whole crosshairs being illuminated.
Hmm now this is a contender. 5oz more than the steiner but also goes to 6x where the p4xi goes to 4x. Wonder if that's worth it for my recce-ish build... Thanks for the feedback. |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 11:34:24 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know, I just realized the pst gen 2 has an illuminated dot. They don't do a great job (or any job at all) of highlighting that on their website. When you google their reticle it comes back with images of the whole crosshairs being illuminated. Hmm now this is a contender. 5oz more than the steiner but also goes to 6x where the p4xi goes to 4x. Wonder if that's worth it for my recce-ish build... Thanks for the feedback. But it's a lot heavier. |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 11:37:32 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know, I just realized the pst gen 2 has an illuminated dot. They don't do a great job (or any job at all) of highlighting that on their website. When you google their reticle it comes back with images of the whole crosshairs being illuminated. Hmm now this is a contender. 5oz more than the steiner but also goes to 6x where the p4xi goes to 4x. Wonder if that's worth it for my recce-ish build... Thanks for the feedback. |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 11:57:23 AM EDT
[#13]
I have the Razor but am thinking about selling it to fund 2 PST 1-6s lol
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Posted: 8/16/2019 12:33:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How far out are you shooting? |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 12:35:58 PM EDT
[#15]
I have the USO 1-6 and like it
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Posted: 8/16/2019 12:36:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm gonna be that 'hurr durr SHTF zombie apocalype guy" but realistically I want this to be my jack-of-all-trades rifle. I don't think that I would engage anything outside 300 yards max. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How far out are you shooting? |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 1:00:00 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A 1-6x would serve you well then. |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 1:05:03 PM EDT
[#18]
I've got a Vortex Crossfire2 1-4x on my 6.8 hunting SBR, and for the money it's hard to beat and I don't feel bad letting it get scratched up.
Vbrite reticle (standard duplex with the center dot) They're under $200 right now at Primary Arms. https://www.primaryarms.com/vortex-crossfire-ii-1-4x24mm-riflescope-v-brite-illuminated-moa-reticle-cf2-31037 Another option is Leupold with a firedot reticle. https://www.primaryarms.com/leupold-113769-vx-r-patrol-1-25-4x20-firedot-spr-matte-finish-lp113769 https://www.primaryarms.com/leupold-1-5-4x20mm-leupold-mark-ar-mod-1-riflescope-firedot-spr-reticle-lp115387 
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Posted: 8/16/2019 1:16:28 PM EDT
[#19]
these should be out soon, I will be getting one(not sure which), been very impressed with Meopta optics so far.
https://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/us/produkt/optika6-1-6x24-sfp-13156/ |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 1:33:00 PM EDT
[#20]
You’ve listed good options. If the P4Xi is the option in your price range, that’s a solid option and I’d get it. They’re generally about the most recommended LPVO in their price range and are well regarded. Whatever tier you’re buying in, Steiner makes top quality stuff.
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Posted: 8/16/2019 1:48:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm gonna be that 'hurr durr SHTF zombie apocalype guy" but realistically I want this to be my jack-of-all-trades rifle. I don't think that I would engage anything outside 300 yards max. |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 4:11:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know, I just realized the pst gen 2 has an illuminated dot. They don't do a great job (or any job at all) of highlighting that on their website. When you google their reticle it comes back with images of the whole crosshairs being illuminated. Hmm now this is a contender. 5oz more than the steiner but also goes to 6x where the p4xi goes to 4x. Wonder if that's worth it for my recce-ish build... Thanks for the feedback. It is a little heavy but it is not that bad.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 4:15:33 PM EDT
[#23]
The Steiner is made here in The USA with glass manufactured by the Carl Zeiss Schott Glass Company in Germany; and the optical quality of the glass is outstanding.
The illuminated dot is true daylight bright unlike many of the others. Very nice reticle. It's a true 1-4X optic. Lifetime warranty; no questions asked. I'm glad I chose the 1-4X LPVO with this quality of optical glass over higher magnification with somewhat lesser glass. |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 4:20:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Steiner is made here in The USA with glass manufactured by the Carl Zeiss Schott Glass Company in Germany; and the optical quality of the glass is outstanding. The illuminated dot is true daylight bright unlike many of the others. Very nice reticle. It's a true 1-4X optic. Lifetime warranty; no questions asked. I'm glad I chose the 1-4X LPVO with this quality of optical glass over higher magnification with somewhat lesser glass. |
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Posted: 8/17/2019 12:31:49 PM EDT
[#25]
I think you'll be very happy with either the Steiner or the Vortex. I owned a P4 Steiner and it was excellent, only sold it to get a Razor for those 300YD shots (which i'm not taking often, to be honest). The Steiner is light, robust, and has excellent optical clarity.
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Posted: 8/17/2019 3:37:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Yep 1-6 is worth it for those long range shots.
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Posted: 8/17/2019 3:46:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Steiner is very nice piece but the extra 2x is also very nice when shooting 200+ and it seems the market is moving to 1-6 & 1-8 more. I went from a 1-4PST1 to a 1-6PST2 and the difference we worth it for me. I periodically shoot to 300-400m and the extra 2x really helps. https://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/us/produkt/optika6-1-6x24-sfp-13156/ |
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Posted: 8/17/2019 7:59:13 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree; which is why I'm looking at one of these with the .223 reticle, or another of the Meopta 1-6s for my next purchase, but I can't find any detailed pictures of the reticles anywhere to help me decide. https://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/us/produkt/optika6-1-6x24-sfp-13156/ |
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Posted: 8/17/2019 8:50:15 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe EuroOptic can help. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I agree; which is why I'm looking at one of these with the .223 reticle, or another of the Meopta 1-6s for my next purchase, but I can't find any detailed pictures of the reticles anywhere to help me decide. https://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/us/produkt/optika6-1-6x24-sfp-13156/ 
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Posted: 8/18/2019 12:19:56 AM EDT
[#30]
Got to look through the P4xi and PSTII at Triggrcon recently and the Steiner definitely had the edge when it comes to illumination. Much brighter than the Vortex.
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Posted: 8/18/2019 1:01:33 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree; which is why I'm looking at one of these with the .223 reticle, or another of the Meopta 1-6s for my next purchase, but I can't find any detailed pictures of the reticles anywhere to help me decide. https://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/us/produkt/optika6-1-6x24-sfp-13156/ |
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Posted: 8/18/2019 8:27:17 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I too would like to get one of those. Most mid range 1-6xs weigh around 21oz+ that ones only 2 ozs heavier than my 1-4. I would like to see the .223 reticle as well. https://www.eurooptic.com/search.aspx?keyword=Meopta+1-6 @AlaskanforFreedom |
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Posted: 8/19/2019 9:16:59 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Got to look through the P4xi and PSTII at Triggrcon recently and the Steiner definitely had the edge when it comes to illumination. Much brighter than the Vortex. |
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Posted: 8/19/2019 10:01:53 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At what point is bright to bright? I can over brighten my PST2 in bright sunlight and end up with a starburst then back it off then be good to go. I found neither lack on illumination my PST1 did lack on illumination in bright sunlight which was disappointing because the reticle would have been perfect with bright illumination. The Leupold firedot and Vortex is great for this. Just the tiniest bit of illumination so you can see the dot without washing out your target. |
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Posted: 8/19/2019 10:55:14 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm less concerned with "daylight bright" on etched/black reticles and am more concerned with the lower visible settings, so you can have usable illumination at daylight/dusk where you can make out the target but can hardly pick up the reticle. (specifically hunting applications against a dark background.) The Leupold firedot and Vortex is great for this. Just the tiniest bit of illumination so you can see the dot without washing out your target. |
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Posted: 8/19/2019 11:58:47 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I totally agree. I remember when I was 14-15 or so hunting with my dad and the sun was just about to crack the horizon so it was still very dim lighting. Of course I had a nice doe walk out I could see through the scope but could not make out the reticle. This was long before the days of usable illuminated reticles and ones that were sucked. I sat there just watching the doe move around for about 10 mins then all of a sudden I could faintly pick up the reticle and took my shot. I think the most difficult part about it was just sitting there frustrated that the one deer I had all season was going to get away and season was over in 3 days. Also that morning I had asked my dad if I could just use my 03 Springfield that morning instead because I liked the irons. He talked me out of it because we were going to be in an area with up to 300m shots possible and I get at doe at about ~125m which would have been cake walk for the 03. Man how times have changed... He was ecstatic when I gave him a LaRue UU with a Vortex PST1 1-4 with an illuminated reticle. He wanted a red dot so I put an Eotech on it. Later he decided to ditch his heavy Weatherby bolt gun with Leupold 3-9 entirely in favor of the 7400, and after trying out my Vortex 1-4 he wanted that scope on the 7400. He's been happy with it since, especially with the low light illumination. |
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Posted: 8/19/2019 12:19:33 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm less concerned with "daylight bright" on etched/black reticles and am more concerned with the lower visible settings, so you can have usable illumination at daylight/dusk where you can make out the target but can hardly pick up the reticle. (specifically hunting applications against a dark background.) The Leupold firedot and Vortex is great for this. Just the tiniest bit of illumination so you can see the dot without washing out your target. 5 true daylight bright settings 4 low light settings and even 2 true night vision settings. |
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Posted: 8/19/2019 12:26:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Trijicon Accupoint
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Posted: 8/19/2019 12:34:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got a Vortex Crossfire2 1-4x on my 6.8 hunting SBR, and for the money it's hard to beat and I don't feel bad letting it get scratched up. Vbrite reticle (standard duplex with the center dot) They're under $200 right now at Primary Arms. https://www.primaryarms.com/vortex-crossfire-ii-1-4x24mm-riflescope-v-brite-illuminated-moa-reticle-cf2-31037 Another option is Leupold with a firedot reticle. https://www.primaryarms.com/leupold-113769-vx-r-patrol-1-25-4x20-firedot-spr-matte-finish-lp113769 https://www.primaryarms.com/leupold-1-5-4x20mm-leupold-mark-ar-mod-1-riflescope-firedot-spr-reticle-lp115387 https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/711NXIul4DL._SL1500_.jpg They're both mounted on AKs which are known to be pretty hard on optics, and they haven't displayed any problems at all with just over 5,000 rounds of 7.62X39 between them. The only criticism of them I have is that they're just a very little bit "dark" optically, which is to be expected at their price point, but they are still very usable and the illumination is useful, although not daylight bright. I recommend them to folks who don't want to spend a lot on an optic for whatever reason. |
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Posted: 8/19/2019 1:09:17 PM EDT
[#40]
leupold mark ar 1.5-4 firedot is a $300 sleeper. lightest option too.
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Posted: 8/19/2019 1:11:32 PM EDT
[#41]
:: Car & Electronics Analogies Warning ::
I own 2 P4XIs and briefly (few weeks) ran a 1-6x PSTII on loan. They were run on a 12.5 SBR suppressed and unsuppressed. Comparing the two is like comparing the 2 cars in the same segment from different makers, each slightly better at some things than the other. (The PST vs a Razor is like comparing an F150 to an F250)
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Posted: 8/19/2019 2:23:10 PM EDT
[#42]
I've been unable to get a straight answer anywhere on the availability of the Meopta Optika 6s I was considering, so I just popped for another Steiner since I'm finishing another project this week and need an optic for it.
I've been super satsfied with the Steiner anyway. |
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Posted: 8/22/2019 4:03:51 PM EDT
[#43]
Edit, Sold out in an hour, they say another small batch is coming.
this may be worth looking at, $369 + free shipping(retail $899) Zeiss CONQUEST V4 1-4x24 ZQAR Illum. Reticle (#62) and Zeiss is also running a rebate that will get you a throw lever and other stuff. https://zeiss.rebateaccess.com/promotion.php?p=89192 from what I read the illumination is daylight bright but not super bright. I picked on up..because for $400 why not? Not sure where the conquests are made, I know at one time they were Meopta but I don't think they are anymore(looks like japan) https://www.eurooptic.com/Zeiss-CONQUEST-V4-1-4x24-ZQAR-Illum-Reticle-62-Ext-Elevation-Turret-Locking-Sing.aspx?utm_source=Site+Subscribers&utm_campaign=10046951ae-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_08_22_01_51&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_dde3ccfa21-10046951ae-158873241 |
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Posted: 8/23/2019 9:00:21 PM EDT
[#44]
My latest Steiner was delivered yesterday and I installed it on the new project in a Vortex Pro-Series 2 inch offset cantilever mount.
It's a very nicely built mount with excellent hardware and its made in The USA. All and all, a very nice, clean, installation with truly excellent German Schott Glass, and since I was a bit under the weather earlier today; I hope to get it to the range over the weekend. |
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Posted: 9/7/2019 9:54:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My latest Steiner was delivered yesterday and I installed it on the new project in a Vortex Pro-Series 2 inch offset cantilever mount. It's a very nicely built mount with excellent hardware and its made in The USA. All and all, a very nice, clean, installation with truly excellent German Schott Glass, and since I was a bit under the weather earlier today; I hope to get it to the range over the weekend. Purpose would be all around/SHTF carbine. Not my nightstand gun though, thats the 11.5" |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 11:37:54 AM EDT
[#46]
Wire reticle LPVO's don't belong on SHTF rifles. You can go back 3 pages here and find multiple examples of both P4xi's and Razors breaking. The Trijicon Accupoint may be the exception to this, but it's strength comes from it's ridiculously thick "wire" that ruins the reticle for me.
If daylight bright is your biggest concern though, you're incredibly limited on etched options and the ones that do exist will cost you big time. You'll most likely be fine with a P4xi since SHTF will probably never happen and they have a great warranty program. Not that they break left and right, but the failure rate is definitely higher. |
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Posted: 9/10/2019 11:16:56 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wire reticle LPVO's don't belong on SHTF rifles. You can go back 3 pages here and find multiple examples of both P4xi's and Razors breaking. |
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Posted: 9/10/2019 2:11:55 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe a dumb question but how do you tell which ones have a wire and which ones have an etched reticle. Honestly I assumed most were etched now a days. David Steiner doesn't advertise it, but they will tell you if you ask. Vortex had accidentally listed the 1-6 Razor as being etched, and I'm not sure if they corrected it. This is how the P4xi, Razor, Accupoint, and VXR get their daylight brightness. They glue an LED/fiber optic emitter to the wire reticle, then run the lighting wire behind the reticle. (This is a broken example showing the separated lighting wire.) 
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Posted: 9/10/2019 9:44:11 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wire reticle LPVO's don't belong on SHTF rifles. 
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Posted: 9/10/2019 10:43:54 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LPVOs with wire reticles have been used successfully in combat. If they can survive that... Unless you mean individual purchase. Which we have a guy here who used a UTG optic successfully in theater. Regardless of combat or range, there is no argument that etched reticles remove a failure point entirely from magnified optics. |
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