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Posted: 6/5/2020 6:14:00 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am surprised that Alexander and Hornady didn’t do a 6mm Grendel years ago. That basic round was popular before the Grendel so I always figured they’d just progress to 6mm eventually but they never did. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Always wondered why they didn’t just do a 6mm Grendel. There were a few wildcats. Non with SAAMI specs though. Right. That’s my point. Probably the normal progression for many wildcats. One party starts it and another party with more money standardizes it. I am surprised that Alexander and Hornady didn’t do a 6mm Grendel years ago. That basic round was popular before the Grendel so I always figured they’d just progress to 6mm eventually but they never did. May be it was a result of the lackluster appeal of the 6x45mm. Sometime just necking up or down a case isn't the ticket. |
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Posted: 6/5/2020 6:29:54 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: May be it was a result of the lackluster appeal of the 6x45mm. Sometime just necking up or down a case isn't the ticket. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Always wondered why they didn’t just do a 6mm Grendel. There were a few wildcats. Non with SAAMI specs though. Right. That’s my point. Probably the normal progression for many wildcats. One party starts it and another party with more money standardizes it. I am surprised that Alexander and Hornady didn’t do a 6mm Grendel years ago. That basic round was popular before the Grendel so I always figured they’d just progress to 6mm eventually but they never did. May be it was a result of the lackluster appeal of the 6x45mm. Sometime just necking up or down a case isn't the ticket. If I were just to go off what I read on the forums I saw a whole lot more 6mm Grendel type rounds than 6x45. |
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Posted: 6/5/2020 7:09:29 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I were just to go off what I read on the forums I saw a whole lot more 6mm Grendel type rounds than 6x45. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Always wondered why they didn’t just do a 6mm Grendel. There were a few wildcats. Non with SAAMI specs though. Right. That’s my point. Probably the normal progression for many wildcats. One party starts it and another party with more money standardizes it. I am surprised that Alexander and Hornady didn’t do a 6mm Grendel years ago. That basic round was popular before the Grendel so I always figured they’d just progress to 6mm eventually but they never did. May be it was a result of the lackluster appeal of the 6x45mm. Sometime just necking up or down a case isn't the ticket. If I were just to go off what I read on the forums I saw a whole lot more 6mm Grendel type rounds than 6x45. True, but why didn't the 6mm PPC catch on as a AR15 cartridge? It's been around longer and still holds the BR record, I believe. The 6mm ARC and 6mm PCC cases are from the same lineage. Just wasn't their time or lack amount of interest behind it? Look at the 22 Nosler and 224 Valkyrie. Based off of the 6.8 SPC case with more volume and better external ballistics, yet they are both tanking. Why? They both have better performance over the 5.56....... I really think it comes down to who has more funding and true useful need. Prime example: 300 Whisper had a cult following, deeper pockets came in and wallah, the 300 Blackout which is everywhere. Why? It bridged a gap between the 5.56 and 7.62 Nato, great subsonic platform, can hunt medium game in most state, wide variety of bullets, great in shorter barrels. Fills a lot of roles. What did the 22 Nosler and Valkyrie really offer over the 5.56 Nato? More speed and that is about it. The 6mm ARC can use every bullet weight that the larger 6mm use with very good ballistic performance, sorta similar to what the 300 Blackout has done with it versatility of bullets weights and their applications. Dunno really. |
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Posted: 6/5/2020 9:03:57 AM EDT
[#4]
There’s a lot there. The PPC didn’t catch on as an AR round because most of the people using the ppc were shooting disciplines that a AR are not competitive in. For years the most common target shooting done with ARs was High Power service rifle which doesn’t or didn’t allow other calibers.
22 Nosler is definitely not doing well but I’m not sure the same is true for the Valkyrie. The Nosler is another great example of something that appears rushed and doesn’t do anything spectacular. The Valkyrie seems to be gaining some steam in the target/prs type stuff but time will tell. The fast 22’s are awesome but they have a limited market in regards to hunting because of bullet diameter based laws. Lots of stuff out performs 223/556 but neither were meant to really replace it. The Blackout was gaining steam before it was the blackout. The suppressor/NFA world was really picking up steam. I really don’t see it as a bridge between 223 and 308 more of a better one gun solution. 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 spc are a much better example of a in between round. SSK could have had a huge jump start on the popularity if they had released the round to SAAMI but that’s not how it happened. Basically a lot of it is just market timing. Doing everything with an AR is common now. CQB, long range, hunting of everything that walks in North America etc. Magazines have always been a sticking point with calibers other than 223. I how they continue to improve and rounds like this will help. |
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Posted: 6/5/2020 10:51:01 AM EDT
[#5]
I do so love my 243 winchester - it is a sweet shooting round and does a number on deer when you do your part.
The Hornday 100 gr interlock going 3000+ fps does a number. Easy to get 22 inch barrels in bolt guns. When you want to hunt with a AR - the 18 inch barrel seems to be the sweet spot - but you are giving up about 50 fps per inch of barrel. I have jumped into the Grendel and have one 20 heavy barrel set up and working on a lighter 18 inch deer gun. Have plently of ammo and getting into the reloading side of it. The only two tweeks it really needs is better mags and the bullet manufacture to tweek the bullets for this cartrage. The Mags - if you look at the 556 in a mag - it is has a lot of contact with the mag and the cartrage next to it... The Grendel - and the 6.5 ARC has a short stubby case - lots of float on it's way to the chamber - seem that could be worked on...Bet that Magpul is already working on it with this new cartrage in the mix. Just a few of my thoughts.... Red |
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Posted: 6/5/2020 1:18:21 PM EDT
[#6]
so the bolt and/or magazine are its potential Achilles heel?
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Posted: 6/5/2020 2:49:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: The Grendel - and the 6.5 ARC has a short stubby case - lots of float on it's way to the chamber - seem that could be worked on...Bet that Magpul is already working on it with this new cartrage in the mix. Just a few of my thoughts.... Red What do you mean lots of float? Magpul has stated numerous times that they won’t make a Grendel or 6.8 mag for a normal AR because it would be too thin. That was the whole reason the LWRC SIX-8 became a thing. Maybe eventually that platform will continue to evolve and we will see dedicated mags in other calibers. |
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Posted: 6/5/2020 4:32:07 PM EDT
[#8]
I’m curious to see how it performs from shorter barrels, say 12”. I have a 6.5 Grendel with a 12” barrel now that I use for coyotes and deer and plan to take on a couple hog hunts. If the ARC could outperform the Grendel in that barrel length and all I have to do is swap the barrel over I’d be interested in that.
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Posted: 6/5/2020 8:08:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryBet that Magpul is already working on it with this new cartrage in the mix. |
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Posted: 6/5/2020 8:57:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m curious to see how it performs from shorter barrels, say 12”. I have a 6.5 Grendel with a 12” barrel now that I use for coyotes and deer and plan to take on a couple hog hunts. If the ARC could outperform the Grendel in that barrel length and all I have to do is swap the barrel over I’d be interested in that. 108 ELD-Ms are doing 2360fps out of a 12" barrel, as per Hornady's testing. |
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Posted: 6/5/2020 10:01:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: 108 ELD-Ms are doing 2360fps out of a 12" barrel, as per Hornady's testing. Without looking others up that seems pretty awesome. Make for a decent do it all. |
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Posted: 6/6/2020 6:06:57 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If this were to ever happen and we get reliable mags, this would be an absolute game changer and the popularity of Grendel and quite possibly the new ARC would fucking soar. Quote HistoryQuoted: Bet that Magpul is already working on it with this new cartrage in the mix. Whats needed is an open source equivalent of the LWRC Six8, but for 6.5g/6mm ARC. Magpul should make a 6.5g/6mm ARC equivalent mag to the 6.8 SPC mag they designed for LWRC, and then release the required magwell / weapon dimensions to industry at large. That way everyone from PSA to KAC can make guns that use the Magpul 6.5/6mm mags - a win for gunmakers and consumers. And meanwhile, Magpul makes a ton of cash, as theres a much wider pool of purchasers for their new line of magazines.  Anyone got an in with Magpul to pitch the idea?  |
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Posted: 6/6/2020 9:09:47 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Whats needed is an open source equivalent of the LWRC Six8, but for 6.5g/6mm ARC. Magpul should make a 6.5g/6mm ARC equivalent mag to the 6.8 SPC mag they designed for LWRC, and then release the required magwell / weapon dimensions to industry at large. That way everyone from PSA to KAC can make guns that use the Magpul 6.5/6mm mags - a win for gunmakers and consumers. And meanwhile, Magpul makes a ton of cash, as theres a much wider pool of purchasers for their new line of magazines. http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/ss11/huge/P1070609.jpg Anyone got an in with Magpul to pitch the idea? There are aftermarket receivers already apparently. No other mags ready yet but people have been talking about metal mags for the platform for quite a while. |
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Posted: 6/6/2020 10:42:09 AM EDT
[#14]
Just now finding out about 6mm arc. I noticed lot of people comparing the 6mm 108gr to the 123gr 6.5G. But what if we compared the 100gr 6mm arc to the 100gr 6.5G? More apple to apple? Is there a big enough advantage in the 6mm arc to build one over 6.5g? I am here to learn.
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Posted: 6/6/2020 10:52:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Just now finding out about 6mm arc. I noticed lot of people comparing the 6mm 108gr to the 123gr 6.5G. But what if we compared the 100gr 6mm arc to the 100gr 6.5G? More apple to apple? Is there a big enough advantage in the 6mm arc to build one over 6.5g? I am here to learn. For a guy like me who is a super casual either would work and if I were invested in one I would probably not switch either way. Since I have neither if I were to jump I’d probably do the 6mm because I like the speed. |
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Posted: 6/6/2020 11:25:23 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just now finding out about 6mm arc. I noticed lot of people comparing the 6mm 108gr to the 123gr 6.5G. But what if we compared the 100gr 6mm arc to the 100gr 6.5G? More apple to apple? Is there a big enough advantage in the 6mm arc to build one over 6.5g? I am here to learn. I. Looked at that the other day, 107gr at 2650 fps, 6mm is supersonic about 300 yards further (1300v1000) and iirc has 1000 ftlbs at 400 vs 300 for the 6.5. Windage at 1000 was better for 6, but I forget how much. |
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Posted: 6/6/2020 2:01:53 PM EDT
[#17]
This is the next Valkyrie
Great idea But Without cheap ammo it will never take off The Grendel has really gotten traction because people have found an intermediate cartridge that’s fun AND can be cheap to shoot and with a good brake it is a pussycat to shoot The same thing happened with my beloved 6.8 no cheap ammo ever came out It’s also a freaking crime that Federal has $9 a box Valkyrie ammo right out the gate and the 6.8 is $12 for imported S&B and PRIVI and the cartridge came out 15 years ago! |
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Posted: 6/6/2020 2:27:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: This is the next Valkyrie Great idea But Without cheap ammo it will never take off The Grendel has really gotten traction because people have found an intermediate cartridge that’s fun AND can be cheap to shoot and with a good brake it is a pussycat to shoot The same thing happened with my beloved 6.8 no cheap ammo ever came out It’s also a freaking crime that Federal has $9 a box Valkyrie ammo right out the gate and the 6.8 is $12 for imported S&B and PRIVI and the cartridge came out 15 years ago! I feel like you’re pretty out of touch with the market. The “cheap” Grendel ammo came along well after it’s popularity not vice versa. 6.8’s problems had little to with ammo cost. I am actually it’s still around as much as it is with the initial teething issues. It’s a great round that had a rough start. The reason the Valkyrie ammo is cheaper is partly because it uses smaller bullets that are made on much more common tooling and part because it had to compete price wise with 223/556 as that’s where most consumers will compare. |
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Posted: 6/6/2020 3:03:15 PM EDT
[#19]
not until steel case comes out
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Posted: 6/6/2020 4:22:14 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: not until steel case comes out If that is your criteria, great. But I never understood this mentality. Let's take a cartridge designed to shoot at longer ranges than 5.56, out of an AR, and use cheap ass, inaccurate, shitty steel cased ammo. |
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Posted: 6/6/2020 6:22:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just now finding out about 6mm arc. I noticed lot of people comparing the 6mm 108gr to the 123gr 6.5G. But what if we compared the 100gr 6mm arc to the 100gr 6.5G? More apple to apple? Is there a big enough advantage in the 6mm arc to build one over 6.5g? I am here to learn. The difference is ballistic coefficient. 6mm 108gr = 0.536 G1 BC 6.5mm 108gr = 0.478 G1 BC --> 6.5g 108gr .478g1 @ 2630fps = 1700fps @ 550yd ; 1125fps @ 1060yd 6mm 108gr .536 @ 2630fps = 1700fps @ 620yd ; 1125fps @ 1195yd --> 6mm is better, but not radically so. Although from a terminal performance standpoint, 6mm will likely be better for penetration due to higher sectional density. |
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Posted: 6/6/2020 8:39:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that is your criteria, great. But I never understood this mentality. Let's take a cartridge designed to shoot at longer ranges than 5.56, out of an AR, and use cheap ass, inaccurate, shitty steel cased ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: not until steel case comes out If that is your criteria, great. But I never understood this mentality. Let's take a cartridge designed to shoot at longer ranges than 5.56, out of an AR, and use cheap ass, inaccurate, shitty steel cased ammo. There are a segment of consumers who cling to the idea that a sublimely high quality rifle can (should) shoot the crappiest ammo, be reliable and force the ammo to shoot well. |
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Posted: 6/6/2020 8:46:41 PM EDT
[#23]
good thing i didn't buy 224 valkyrie, it's dead jim and not accurate as hyped up to be.
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Posted: 6/6/2020 9:06:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The difference is ballistic coefficient. 6mm 108gr = 0.536 G1 BC 6.5mm 108gr = 0.478 G1 BC --> 6.5g 108gr .478g1 @ 2630fps = 1700fps @ 550yd ; 1125fps @ 1060yd 6mm 108gr .536 @ 2630fps = 1700fps @ 620yd ; 1125fps @ 1195yd --> 6mm is better, but not radically so. Although from a terminal performance standpoint, 6mm will likely be better for penetration due to higher sectional density. Thank you for the comparison in numbers. I'll be keeping an eye on this one. |
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Posted: 6/6/2020 9:06:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: good thing i didn't buy 224 valkyrie, it's dead jim and not accurate as hyped up to be. Why do you guys keep saying this? Has it been discontinued by some manufacturers? Frank(Lowlight) from Snipershide seems to have a lot of good things about the Valkyrie. He’s talked about it several times on his podcast. I am just wondering what you guys are basing it on. |
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Posted: 6/7/2020 9:08:06 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 9/10rd and 15rd ACS have been 100% for me. The Elander has the wrong curve in the 24rd. Look at how the CProducts is shaped more like a x39 AK mag. My buddy hasn't had any issues with the 26rd CProducts grendel mags. They're all he uses now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Where? It's based on the Grendel and is shipping to the DOD with some 24rd mag that looks a lot like an E-Lander (at least from Barrett's press release photo). 99.9% certain the ARC feeds from Grendel mags. The 9/10rd and 15rd ACS have been 100% for me. The Elander has the wrong curve in the 24rd. Look at how the CProducts is shaped more like a x39 AK mag. My buddy hasn't had any issues with the 26rd CProducts grendel mags. They're all he uses now. Excuse me, what? I think you are confused with the ASC magazines. Bill worked with e-lander to make them to spec. |
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Posted: 6/7/2020 2:07:10 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that is your criteria, great. But I never understood this mentality. Let's take a cartridge designed to shoot at longer ranges than 5.56, out of an AR, and use cheap ass, inaccurate, shitty steel cased ammo. I don't get it either, unless it's someone's only AR. But I have to think most people with a 6.5G AR, or upper, also have a 5.56. |
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Posted: 6/7/2020 3:32:42 PM EDT
[#28]
With rumors of military adoption; I hope other manufactures start chambering this round. I would be all over a BCM to match my other guns.
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Posted: 6/8/2020 9:36:18 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: not until steel case comes out That's some funny shit. |
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Posted: 6/8/2020 9:47:30 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's some funny shit. Hornady: Look a long- range capable multi purpose precision cartridge for an AR-15! Consumers: Meh. Ill wait until Tula makes 7moa cheap ammo for it. |
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Posted: 6/8/2020 10:08:16 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hornady: Look a long- range capable multi purpose precision cartridge for an AR-15! Consumers: Meh. Ill wait until Tula makes 7moa cheap ammo for it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's some funny shit. Hornady: Look a long- range capable multi purpose precision cartridge for an AR-15! Consumers: Meh. Ill wait until Tula makes 7moa cheap ammo for it. Exactly! |
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Posted: 6/8/2020 11:25:55 AM EDT
[#32]
Since I jumped in on the Grendel - I am in no rush to make the jump into the 6MM ARC.
I just do not see any major gaines in changing it up now. Have all the components to start reloading including 400 rounds or the Hornady American in bulk boxes - ready to make some brass with. Have two set up's one 20 inch heavy barrel - to plink with at some longer ranges. Have most of the parts for a 18 inch deer rifle build. The one thing that jumps out at me - if I was to switch - it would be sweet to be able to use the same bullets in the 243 win as the 6mm arc Red Edit to add.... I looked at the 6MM Creadmore - what does it do any better than the 243 win? |
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Posted: 6/8/2020 11:38:38 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Since I jumped in on the Grendel - I am in no rush to make the jump into the 6MM ARC. I just do not see any major gaines in changing it up now. Have all the components to start reloading including 400 rounds or the Hornady American in bulk boxes - ready to make some brass with. Have two set up's one 20 inch heavy barrel - to plink with at some longer ranges. Have most of the parts for a 18 inch deer rifle build. The one thing that jumps out at me - if I was to switch - it would be sweet to be able to use the same bullets in the 243 win as the 6mm arc Red Edit to add.... I looked at the 6MM Creadmore - what does it do any better than the 243 win? I think the 243win and 6creed are ballisticly identical. Much like the 260/6.5creed. The only difference is bullet seating depth. |
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Posted: 6/8/2020 12:33:29 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Since I jumped in on the Grendel - I am in no rush to make the jump into the 6MM ARC. I just do not see any major gaines in changing it up now. Have all the components to start reloading including 400 rounds or the Hornady American in bulk boxes - ready to make some brass with. Have two set up's one 20 inch heavy barrel - to plink with at some longer ranges. Have most of the parts for a 18 inch deer rifle build. The one thing that jumps out at me - if I was to switch - it would be sweet to be able to use the same bullets in the 243 win as the 6mm arc Red Edit to add.... I looked at the 6MM Creadmore - what does it do any better than the 243 win? It's sized, throated and twisted properly to handle heavy bullets at magazine length, just like the 6.5 version. You can sort of equal what the Creedmoors do out of the box with a custom throated .243/.260 using faster than standard twists and long mags. If you aren't really shooting at longer range, the 6mm ARC probably isn't going to do much for you that the Grendel won't. |
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Posted: 6/8/2020 1:25:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's some funny shit. Hornady: Look a long- range capable multi purpose precision cartridge for an AR-15! Consumers: Meh. Ill wait until Tula makes 7moa cheap ammo for it. Exactly! Arfcom: If you buy an expensive enough gun it should make the Tula shoot sub-MOA. (not all of arfcom) |
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Posted: 6/8/2020 7:29:40 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Since I jumped in on the Grendel - I am in no rush to make the jump into the 6MM ARC. I just do not see any major gaines in changing it up now. Have all the components to start reloading including 400 rounds or the Hornady American in bulk boxes - ready to make some brass with. Have two set up's one 20 inch heavy barrel - to plink with at some longer ranges. Have most of the parts for a 18 inch deer rifle build. The one thing that jumps out at me - if I was to switch - it would be sweet to be able to use the same bullets in the 243 win as the 6mm arc Red Edit to add.... I looked at the 6MM Creadmore - what does it do any better than the 243 win? 6mm Creedmoor allows more ideal placement of VLD projectiles and factory rifles with the twist rates to stabilize them. .243 Winchester was meant as a light-recoiling medium game and varmint cartridge with lighter projectiles going extremely fast, with looser twist for shorter ranges. |
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Posted: 6/9/2020 5:16:39 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Arfcom: If you buy an expensive enough gun it should make the Tula shoot sub-MOA. (not all of arfcom) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's some funny shit. Hornady: Look a long- range capable multi purpose precision cartridge for an AR-15! Consumers: Meh. Ill wait until Tula makes 7moa cheap ammo for it. Exactly! Arfcom: If you buy an expensive enough gun it should make the Tula shoot sub-MOA. (not all of arfcom) Sure, what's wrong with that? I put octane 85 in my Lamborghini. |
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Posted: 6/9/2020 11:07:37 AM EDT
[#38]
I wonder if a 300 blackout PMAG would work with the ARC? Just spitballing...
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Posted: 6/9/2020 11:25:54 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder if a 300 blackout PMAG would work with the ARC? Just spitballing... Case diameter of 300 BLK = .376 Case diameter of 6mm ARC = .439 So no. |
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Posted: 6/9/2020 11:31:15 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are aftermarket receivers already apparently. No other mags ready yet but people have been talking about metal mags for the platform for quite a while. New Frontier Armory makes one, I believe. |
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Posted: 6/9/2020 11:32:25 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is the next Valkyrie Great idea But Without cheap ammo it will never take off I have a feeling you may be correct. |
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Posted: 6/9/2020 11:37:43 AM EDT
[#42]
I can tell you that cheap steel case Grendel ammo flies off the shelf. If I get in 20 cases it might last 2 days. People buy Grendels for a few different reasons, and the availability of cheap ammo is one of the top reasons.
When Wolf 300 BLK ammo hits the streets watch the increased in BUZZ about that cartridge, and it is already fairly popular and it has been around since 2010. So, yeah, cheap ammo puts the cartridge in the hands of the masses, which doesn't hurt a thing. |
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Posted: 6/9/2020 11:54:35 AM EDT
[#43]
This cartridge it's purposely designed to maximize the useful range of the AR-15, and it will probably be a pretty good hunting cartridge as well. For those uses, junk steel ammo is a waste of time and barrel life.
Different cartridges for different purposes, If you're main concern is the availability of steel ammo, and LR accuracy isn't important, this round makes no sense, why wouldn't you just stick to 5.56 or 7.62x39? |
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Posted: 6/9/2020 1:03:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m curious to see how it performs from shorter barrels, say 12”. I have a 6.5 Grendel with a 12” barrel now that I use for coyotes and deer and plan to take on a couple hog hunts. If the ARC could outperform the Grendel in that barrel length and all I have to do is swap the barrel over I’d be interested in that. Same case same pressure and smaller bore means it will lose more fps per barrel inch than the Grendel. So it might be ok in shorter barrels but it won't be as good as the Grendel. |
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Posted: 6/9/2020 2:58:58 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're main concern is the availability of steel ammo, and LR accuracy isn't important, this round makes no sense, why wouldn't you just stick to 5.56 or 7.62x39? For the same reasons you would go with Grendel steel case over 7.69x39 steel case. Increased energy, terminal performance, and hit probability (due to higher BCs). If the numbers are correct, this should put the "magic" 1,000 out further than the Grendel. And that may be desirable when hog hunting. |
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Posted: 6/9/2020 3:14:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was only responding to the claims of patents and trademarks between all 4 of those cartridges, not whether one can be chambered in another. You can chamber a .308 in a .270 Winchester though, and fire it! Recoil will be impressive if the rifle holds together. The case will come out with no neck, just a hole at the end of the shoulder. You tried it? Had a customer try that once. Hamdiallah it was a push feed action and thus went,"click." |
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Posted: 6/9/2020 3:20:47 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the same reasons you would go with Grendel steel case over 7.69x39 steel case. Increased energy, terminal performance, and hit probability (due to higher BCs). If the numbers are correct, this should put the "magic" 1,000 out further than the Grendel. And that may be desirable when hog hunting. The point is no one who is concerned about hitting stuff at long range shoots cheap steel cased ammo. The prime target market for this round outside of ARFCOM won't care that there's no steel case bi-metal rounds because they wouldn't polute their bore with them anyway. This is not a be all end all round for everything from bumpfire dirt blasting to mile out shots, nor does it need to be, that's unrealistic. There are gazillions of 5.56 and 7.62x39 uppers out there that everybody already owns that can be fed steel cased ammo for short range blasting. If this round tanks, it absolutely will not be because Tula/Wolf wasn't on board, it will be because it winds up not delivering on its core promises (velocity + accuracy + BC). For the record I actually shoot some (but not much) steel cased 5.56, but I have no interest in running bi-metal junk through my Grendel, and wouldn't dream of sending any down the bores of my 6.5 Creedmoors (another cartridge not at all hurt by the absence of Russian steel cased ammo). |
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Posted: 6/9/2020 3:32:11 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You tried it? Had a customer try that once. Hamdiallah it was a push feed action and thus went,"click." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I was only responding to the claims of patents and trademarks between all 4 of those cartridges, not whether one can be chambered in another. You can chamber a .308 in a .270 Winchester though, and fire it! Recoil will be impressive if the rifle holds together. The case will come out with no neck, just a hole at the end of the shoulder. You tried it? Had a customer try that once. Hamdiallah it was a push feed action and thus went,"click." Nope. Guy at a local range in the Salt Lake Valley did it many years ago. Neighbor of mine was one of the ROs. He came home one day and showed it to me, asking what cartridge I thought it was, then explained the story. Said it took a rubber mallet to get the action open, bolt handle was stiff. |
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Posted: 6/9/2020 3:42:55 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The point is no one who is concerned about hitting stuff at long range shoots cheap steel cased ammo. The prime target market for this round outside of ARFCOM won't care that there's no steel case bi-metal rounds because they wouldn't polute their bore with them anyway. This is not a be all end all round for everything from bumpfire dirt blasting to mile out shots, nor does it need to be, that's unrealistic. There are gazillions of 5.56 and 7.62x39 uppers out there that everybody already owns that can be fed steel cased ammo for short range blasting. If this round tanks, it absolutely will not be because Tula/Wolf wasn't on board, it will be because it winds up not delivering on its core promises (velocity + accuracy + BC). For the record I actually shoot some (but not much) steel cased 5.56, but I have no interest in running bi-metal junk through my Grendel, and wouldn't dream of sending any down the bores of my 6.5 Creedmoors (another cartridge not at all hurt by the absence of Russian steel cased ammo). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For the same reasons you would go with Grendel steel case over 7.69x39 steel case. Increased energy, terminal performance, and hit probability (due to higher BCs). If the numbers are correct, this should put the "magic" 1,000 out further than the Grendel. And that may be desirable when hog hunting. The point is no one who is concerned about hitting stuff at long range shoots cheap steel cased ammo. The prime target market for this round outside of ARFCOM won't care that there's no steel case bi-metal rounds because they wouldn't polute their bore with them anyway. This is not a be all end all round for everything from bumpfire dirt blasting to mile out shots, nor does it need to be, that's unrealistic. There are gazillions of 5.56 and 7.62x39 uppers out there that everybody already owns that can be fed steel cased ammo for short range blasting. If this round tanks, it absolutely will not be because Tula/Wolf wasn't on board, it will be because it winds up not delivering on its core promises (velocity + accuracy + BC). For the record I actually shoot some (but not much) steel cased 5.56, but I have no interest in running bi-metal junk through my Grendel, and wouldn't dream of sending any down the bores of my 6.5 Creedmoors (another cartridge not at all hurt by the absence of Russian steel cased ammo). I have never shot steel-cased Grendel ammo through any of my 6.5 Grendels either. I have boxes of spent brass that made my back hurt trying to lift when cleaning out the armory, not even including the boxes of bullets. My wife has never once tried to comment on or impose on my firearms, ammunition, accessories, or reloading component purchasing habits and for that I am truly blessed. I made the mistake of letting her box up a bunch of said items from the armory, after which she rhetorically asked, "There's no reason for you to be buying any reloading components for a long, long time, is there?" Given the volumetric space and bulk weight of the components, I could not disagree with her in that moment. But I'm not the average customer. Most of the people I know though have similar circumstances. A lot of guys I know that have multiple 6.5 Grendels also have at least 1 6mm AR and load for them to either shoot competitively, hunt varmints, or shoot steel for fun at distance. |
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Posted: 6/9/2020 3:51:49 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The point is no one who is concerned about hitting stuff at long range shoots cheap steel cased ammo. The prime target market for this round outside of ARFCOM won't care that there's no steel case bi-metal rounds because they wouldn't polute their bore with them anyway. This is not a be all end all round for everything from bumpfire dirt blasting to mile out shots, nor does it need to be, that's unrealistic. There are gazillions of 5.56 and 7.62x39 uppers out there that everybody already owns that can be fed steel cased ammo for short range blasting. If this round tanks, it absolutely will not be because Tula/Wolf wasn't on board, it will be because it winds up not delivering on its core promises (velocity + accuracy + BC). For the record I actually shoot some (but not much) steel cased 5.56, but I have no interest in running bi-metal junk through my Grendel, and wouldn't dream of sending any down the bores of my 6.5 Creedmoors (another cartridge not at all hurt by the absence of Russian steel cased ammo). I was in a shop when a guy came in to 4473 a gun he'd won in a raffle that the shop provided. Really nice 6.5CM. Gets the paperwork filled and while waiting for BC asks "what's the cheapest ammo you have for this?" I felt like grabbing the rifle from him. Fucking philistine. The owner builds a few rifles for people and I could tell he didn't want to let him have the rifle just so the guy could finger fuck it occasionally and shoot 5 rounds of the cheapest 6.5 he can find onto a paper plate at 50 yards and then 5 more at deer he misses. The best part was he didn't end up buying any ammo, since the Hornady stuff on the shelf (not high end Hornady even) was too expensive. |
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