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Posted: 2/4/2024 1:17:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Not surprising while we enjoy this A2 Renaissance.
The question remains however, where the hell is Armalite? Retro is still hot and they should be reaping the proverbial hay. |
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Posted: 2/4/2024 1:58:26 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not surprising while we enjoy this A2 Renaissance. The question remains however, where the hell is Armalite? Retro is still hot and they should be reaping the proverbial hay. Thats what I was thinking. If anything, Armalite could license the name to H&R/PSA Is Armalite even still in business? |
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Posted: 2/4/2024 2:55:25 PM EDT
[#3]
I'd be curious to know what the Springfield rep means by "internal tweaks and modifications".
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Posted: 2/4/2024 3:22:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd be curious to know what the Springfield rep means by "internal tweaks and modifications". Nothing you'll see in the initial models after cutting this and that to make a profit. |
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Posted: 2/4/2024 3:44:04 PM EDT
[#5]
If BCM makes an A2 I'll buy one.
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Posted: 2/4/2024 10:53:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd be curious to know what the Springfield rep means by "internal tweaks and modifications". They alluded to M4 feedramps in the video. It wouldn’t surprise me if the production model has a nitride barrel and 9310 bolt. |
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Posted: 2/5/2024 4:52:31 AM EDT
[#7]
The Springfield rep says there are "internal changes to make it run better"-huh
The blogger suggests changes to the feed ramps. So it has m4 feed ramps ? yeah I wonder if it's not chrome lined |
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Posted: 2/19/2024 12:14:21 AM EDT
[#8]
I bet it's not chrome lined.
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Posted: 2/19/2024 10:23:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Armalite was bought by Surgeon Rifles
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Posted: 2/19/2024 10:57:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bet it's not chrome lined. |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 9:03:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Non chrome lined a2 is lame I concur. |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 11:47:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Non chrome lined a2 is lame Unless doing competitive match shooting. RCA |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 5:10:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Non chrome lined a2 is lame Does anyone else remember--back in the day--when a certain mfr of AR's and parts, and whose name begins with "D," used half-a-page of their website to say, "U DON'T NEEEEEEEEED A CHROMRE-LINED BARREL!!!!" ? |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 11:57:10 PM EDT
[#14]
To this day you’ll see websites saying how nitride is better than chrome lining. We all know it’s cheaper and easier
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Posted: 3/30/2024 6:59:25 PM EDT
[#15]
They didn’t mention the most important feature: Gov’t Profile Barrel? Hopefully it’s not a damn HBAR…that would be an instant deal breaker.
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Posted: 3/31/2024 9:18:11 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd be curious to know what the Springfield rep means by "internal tweaks and modifications". Non USGI spec parts, not interchangable. |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 7:57:04 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They alluded to M4 feedramps in the video. It wouldn’t surprise me if the production model has a nitride barrel and 9310 bolt. 
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Posted: 4/30/2024 11:08:15 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They alluded to M4 feedramps in the video. It wouldn’t surprise me if the production model has a nitride barrel and 9310 bolt. SA-16 Spec Sheet I was right about M4 ramps and 9310 bolt. Barrel is actually gonna be chrome-lined though. Burst markings on lower. Tensioning device to keep receivers tight. Overall I’m sure the rifle is fine, unless you want it 100% clone correct. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 12:31:48 PM EDT
[#19]
The SA web site write up says bolt is a Carpenter 158. The spec sheet says 9310.
Typo? They also don’t specifically say the FSB is non F. What do you guys think of the MSRP? Could you build one for less? |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 4:55:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Colin Noir just uploaded a vid about the SA rifle
https://youtu.be/dorC8qqINmY?feature=shared |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 8:24:27 PM EDT
[#21]
This also comes with the "Accu-Tite" tensioning system to (presumably) reduce upper/lower slop.
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Posted: 4/30/2024 10:47:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The SA web site write up says bolt is a Carpenter 158. The spec sheet says 9310. Typo? They also don’t specifically say the FSB is non F. What do you guys think of the MSRP? Could you build one for less? Isn't H&R making their A2 rifles and uppers with F height FSB now? That's what's keeping me from buying one. Glad Springfield is doing this, but think the price is too high. Could buy an H&R for that, or less. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:02:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Unlined 4140 barrel steel, HUUUUUGE gas ports, mold injected internals made in Croatia, Assembly staff that habitually cut corners in torque and threading compounds, zero dimensional QC, and their huge profit margins go to fund gun control measures in the state of Illinois. No thanks.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:03:15 PM EDT
[#24]
They don't even know their own product. Wouldn't be surprised if they order whatever bolts they find cheapest at the time. It may well be different suppliers and different materials from rifle to rifle. Springfield is sketch like that.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:05:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Springfield rep says there are "internal changes to make it run better"-huh The blogger suggests changes to the feed ramps. So it has m4 feed ramps ? yeah I wonder if it's not chrome lined My experience has been unless they explicitly say it’s chrome lined, it isn’t. The SA16A2 explicitly has a chrome lined barrel. 
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Posted: 5/1/2024 7:02:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unlined 4140 barrel steel, HUUUUUGE gas ports, mold injected internals made in Croatia, Assembly staff that habitually cut corners in torque and threading compounds, zero dimensional QC, and their huge profit margins go to fund gun control measures in the state of Illinois. No thanks.  ....what gun are you talking about? You should at least be halfway educated on the rifle before trying to bash it.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 7:46:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't H&R making their A2 rifles and uppers with F height FSB now? That's what's keeping me from buying one. Glad Springfield is doing this, but think the price is too high. Could buy an H&R for that, or less. I looked up PSA's H&R line for a work buddy that wanted to get his dad an A2 rifle since he served in the Gulf War. PSA has both Gray and Black anodized versions with FN Chrome-lined barrels for 1300; as well as some black anodized blems with FN barrel for 1279. I want to be excited for this SA offering and it's cool that they're doing it, but the H&R option from PSA looks so much better in comparison. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 9:45:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I looked up PSA's H&R line for a work buddy that wanted to get his dad an A2 rifle since he served in the Gulf War. PSA has both Gray and Black anodized versions with FN Chrome-lined barrels for 1300; as well as some black anodized blems with FN barrel for 1279. I want to be excited for this SA offering and it's cool that they're doing it, but the H&R option from PSA looks so much better in comparison. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Isn't H&R making their A2 rifles and uppers with F height FSB now? That's what's keeping me from buying one. Glad Springfield is doing this, but think the price is too high. Could buy an H&R for that, or less. I looked up PSA's H&R line for a work buddy that wanted to get his dad an A2 rifle since he served in the Gulf War. PSA has both Gray and Black anodized versions with FN Chrome-lined barrels for 1300; as well as some black anodized blems with FN barrel for 1279. I want to be excited for this SA offering and it's cool that they're doing it, but the H&R option from PSA looks so much better in comparison. It's even cheaper to buy the upper and lower seperately. I still want to know about their F height FSB though. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 12:30:04 AM EDT
[#29]
The H&R M16A2 has an F marked FSB. This was something that bothered me because I didn’t expect it. All of my other H&R rifles have come with the proper FSB but on their A2 series they went with the F marked FSB. They said it was in the interest of time but I suspect the barrels are coming from FN with the FSB already on so they are just installing them that way. The website is a bit deceptive on this point IMO. They claimed they would update the web page to reflect that they come with a F marked FSB but they still haven’t. For some reason H&R doesn’t seem like it is a big deal but to me it was a sticking point. I ended up selling off my H&R A2. I still have three actual FN rifles though I have one of the uppers currently listed for sale. I’m hanging on to my basic M16A2 and my M16A2/M203 clones. The response kind of soured me on H&R for awhile. Right now the only thing they have coming up that I’m interested in is the 9mm DOE AR.
Even if this SA A2 isn’t 100% I still think it is okay. I think for a lot of people it will scratch that itch. Similar to people buying the H&R A2 knowing it has an F marked FSB, neither are correct but having two A2 clones on the market now is still some progress when just a few years ago just getting a stripped A2 upper receiver was a challenge. Now we have two complete rifles and lots of A2 parts.  Attached File Attached File Attached FileA1 is correct though.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 7:37:54 AM EDT
[#30]
If it makes you feel better Colt sold some A2 rifles with a F-FSB
 A friend of mine has one… it’s a 1999 made MT6601 |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:01:03 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it makes you feel better Colt sold some A2 rifles with a F-FSB A friend of mine has one… it’s a 1999 made MT6601 That is probably worth some stupid money to a crazy colt collector. My issue with the H&R and the F marked FSB is that they sell and advertise it as an M16A2 clone with clone markings but then get lazy when it comes to the FSB. Making an M16A2 clone to the correct spec isn’t that big of a deal and it’s not like H&R doesn’t already make and sell A2 FSBs. I just expected a little more from H&R. It is one thing to apply a little artistic license to something like the JSOC build they did awhile back. Parts for those are super rare and nearly impossible to source now days, but a basic M16A2 clone? That is easy. At least SA is being somewhat upfront about the non-spec aspects of their version. They are very clearly selling and advertising theirs as a tribute. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:12:42 AM EDT
[#32]
My issue is less the 100% clone correctness (I am not someone who is that OCD / picky) it's more the practical application. I REFUSE to have a F height FSB on my fixed carry handle uppers. I've tried it a few times in the past, and it always results in a tiny short nub for a front sight post that is harder to see and slow to pick up with iron sight shooting (when you use the correct nose to charging handle cheek weld). I despise short front sight posts, esp if irons are going to be my primary sighting tool. I want my front sight post to be as tall and as visible as possible, which results in much faster sight alignment and rounds on target.
Like you, it just baffles me how they are so picky and "period correct" on all these little obscure details for their retro rifles, most of which are cosmetic only with no real user benefit, or practical application, but ONE of the most important practical details for use / function is blatantly ignored for convenience sake / to save a few cents. H&R needs to get their act together on this, @Mike_NDS ! |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:41:09 AM EDT
[#33]
Blain, you are that picky/ocd guy . Don’t fool yourself.
 It’s not always a bad thing. I’m that way about a lot of stuff. But as I’ve said many times, we don’t have a MECHANICAL issue zeroing our M16A2 uppers and rifles with the FSB we use. If we did I wouldn’t use it.  We zero at 25y and the post averages 6 clicks below flush. Here’s a picture of some uppers that just got test fired. 
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Posted: 5/2/2024 12:12:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Hahaha, well Mike, at least my pickiness has a purpose vs those who are picky about cosmetic details (those front sight posts on the ends are starting to look pretty short)! They are starting off at -6 clicks down on average (so half of them are even lower than that)! In my experience, I usually have to raise the impact elevation on "factory sighted guns" to get my zero to where I want it. So that could be another 3-8 more clicks down for the front sight post depending on how the zero goes. Now the front sight post is even lower, and becomes a short little nub! In any event, the front sight post would be even higher with a standard height FSB than it would with an F marked one, and that is always preferable for iron sight shooting, IMHO. I prefer my froght sight post to be around even with the front sight base for best, and fastest, sight acquisition.
So now you have TWO types of customers coming after you! The visual OCD guys (who won't like seeing the F) and the practical OCD guys who don't like the short front sight post! Surely, this can be something you can change down the line? I know you guys pride yourself on historical accuracy and "clone correctness"! What ammo type and brand do you use to sight in your uppers, btw? |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 12:55:45 PM EDT
[#35]
I don't know what to tell you buddy, we've sold a ton and the only (minor) gripe we get is the stamp on the FSB.
No issues with elevation zero or "buried" front sights from customers that have actually shot theirs. I did ask to get the ad copy corrected a while back, guess I'll have to ask again. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 1:42:51 PM EDT
[#36]
You don't want to do it for the historical accuracy, at least? I had heard you had both types available. Or, how hard would it be to just have FN ship the barrels with the A2 height FSB for the F height ones?
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Posted: 5/2/2024 2:57:21 PM EDT
[#37]
We only have one type of .750" FSB.
To add a 4th FSB version doesn't make sense. If we were to do an early M4 it might be necessary because the mechanical issue does arise with Carbine length sight radius. I have no plans to do an M4 style. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 3:23:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Blain, you are that picky/ocd guy . Don't fool yourself. It's not always a bad thing. I'm that way about a lot of stuff. But as I've said many times, we don't have a MECHANICAL issue zeroing our M16A2 uppers and rifles with the FSB we use. If we did I wouldn't use it. We zero at 25y and the post averages 6 clicks below flush. Here's a picture of some uppers that just got test fired.https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91277/IMG_2317-3203711.jpg |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 3:45:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My experience has been unless they explicitly say it's chrome lined, it isn't. The SA16A2 explicitly has a chrome lined barrel. https://i.ibb.co/vPVRCC3/IMG-3862.png Thanks :) |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 3:46:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: this is going to be a weird question but how many clicks of downward adjustment would you say are left? I'm looking at the M16A2 spec and it says the front sight should have at least 16 clicks of downwards adjustment left after zeroing and the rear sight should be within 5 clicks of center I just went over and checked one. From flush it had 26 clicks until it bottomed out. We are generally 4-6 clicks below flush for zero. The rear is set at 8/3 with 3 full clicks down before bottoming out, just like I was taught at 45B school. We do our best on the windage but I'm not going to guarantee 5 clicks off center as I've seen drastic shifts of both windage and elevation with a simple ammo change. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 3:46:26 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not surprising while we enjoy this A2 Renaissance. The question remains however, where the hell is Armalite? Retro is still hot and they should be reaping the proverbial hay. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 3:47:55 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thats what I was thinking. If anything, Armalite could license the name to H&R/PSA Is Armalite even still in business? |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 3:49:12 PM EDT
[#43]
Are you saying the Brazilians don't own it anymore?
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Posted: 5/2/2024 3:58:21 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We only have one type of .750" FSB. To add a 4th FSB version doesn't make sense. If we were to do an early M4 it might be necessary because the mechanical issue does arise with Carbine length sight radius. I have no plans to do an M4 style. Single data point but I had absolutely no issue zeroing an XM4-ish build with an "F" FSB (Colt 14.5" Socom barrel) and H&R A2 upper.   
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Posted: 5/2/2024 4:06:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Yep, it varies.
 I have an old F marked CMMG 20" pencil barrel on a flat top that needed the extended, taller front sight post to get a zero with a USGI detachable CH. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 4:44:40 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Single data point but I had absolutely no issue zeroing an XM4-ish build with an "F" FSB (Colt 14.5" Socom barrel) and H&R A2 upper. https://i.postimg.cc/tgnJ5t0c/20240309-124756.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/50w0c42q/20240309-132726.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/zBmBPb8G/20240309-133015.jpg That's still dialed down a fair bit, bit would be the minimum I would consider acceptavle. What type of zero are you using? Is that sighted in with a nose to charging handle cheek weld? |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 4:59:52 PM EDT
[#47]
To be clear, I did not have any issues zeroing my H&R M16A2 clone. It zeroed just fine. I fall into the group Mike noted above, that F stamp is my only gripe. The rifle as far as function, fit, and finish was outstanding. Just as my other H&R clones have been. When H&R finally gets around to releasing the 9mm DOE clone I will be first in line. I’ll probably order two.
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Posted: 5/2/2024 5:09:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know what to tell you buddy, we've sold a ton and the only (minor) gripe we get is the stamp on the FSB. No issues with elevation zero or "buried" front sights from customers that have actually shot theirs. I did ask to get the ad copy corrected a while back, guess I'll have to ask again. It looks like the page has been corrected. Down in the specifications area. https://palmettostatearmory.com/harrington-richardson-m16a2-rifle-w-20-hammer-forged-fn-barrel-black.html |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 5:19:25 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you saying the Brazilians don't own it anymore? |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 5:19:26 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's still dialed down a fair bit, bit would be the minimum I would consider acceptavle. What type of zero are you using? Is that sighted in with a nose to charging handle cheek weld? |
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