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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Thoughts on the CMMG Guard? (Page 15 of 25)
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For those who have mentioned issues with ejector springs with the 9mm Guard, how many rounds would you say before you see issues? I know some of you are shooting full auto, so I imagine you're going through a lot of rounds per range session.
I don't shoot nearly as often as I'd like to. I may bring 2 or 3 guns to the range and maybe put 100 rounds through each, so I probably don't put 1000 rounds through any given gun in a year. I'm wondering if I'd ever see an issue with the ejector spring at my rate. |
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For those who have mentioned issues with ejector springs with the 9mm Guard, how many rounds would you say before you see issues? I know some of you are shooting full auto, so I imagine you're going through a lot of rounds per range session. I don't shoot nearly as often as I'd like to. I may bring 2 or 3 guns to the range and maybe put 100 rounds through each, so I probably don't put 1000 rounds through any given gun in a year. I'm wondering if I'd ever see an issue with the ejector spring at my rate. Amphibians' testing has shown that the springs are a weak point with his systems and level of use. He is out a lot so the time frame to spring failure is apparently short if you go frequently. Saw that someone on another forum had replaced his with these: Tubb CS Extractor/Ejector Springs I didn't see a followup post. |
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Just to clarify if I buy a cmmg mkg barrel and bcg I can use it on pretty much any standard upper receiver and handguard right? |
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I have fired a couple thousand rounds (maybe 1k full auto) and I haven't noticed any problems yet from the spring. I haven't been able to fire suppressed yet though and I have the Banshee (5" barrel). Unsure of how long mine will last. Amphibians' testing has shown that the springs are a weak point with his systems and level of use. He is out a lot so the time frame to spring failure is apparently short if you go frequently. Saw that someone on another forum had replaced his with these: Tubb CS Extractor/Ejector Springs I didn't see a followup post. Quoted:
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For those who have mentioned issues with ejector springs with the 9mm Guard, how many rounds would you say before you see issues? I know some of you are shooting full auto, so I imagine you're going through a lot of rounds per range session. I don't shoot nearly as often as I'd like to. I may bring 2 or 3 guns to the range and maybe put 100 rounds through each, so I probably don't put 1000 rounds through any given gun in a year. I'm wondering if I'd ever see an issue with the ejector spring at my rate. Amphibians' testing has shown that the springs are a weak point with his systems and level of use. He is out a lot so the time frame to spring failure is apparently short if you go frequently. Saw that someone on another forum had replaced his with these: Tubb CS Extractor/Ejector Springs I didn't see a followup post. However, I think even in semi, I don't like that buffer and spring's recoil impulse....don't get me wrong, it is nicer than most blowback 9mm's but compared to an MP5 even in semi auto, it just isn't as smooth. |
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Look what I got for Black Friday.  . Now I need to replace the handguard and modify my QC10 glock lower.
https://i.imgur.com/Pi2NcPj.jpg |
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I think what really kills the Guard ejector spring is when you try to slow it down like I'm doing. The more you try to delay it the faster the ejector spring is going to die. |
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I think what really kills the Guard ejector spring is when you try to slow it down like I'm doing. The more you try to delay it the faster the ejector spring is going to die. Most people don't care about cyclic rate and will just use whatever CMMG recommends so you should be fine. (standard carbine buffer and spring). However, I think even in semi, I don't like that buffer and spring's recoil impulse....don't get me wrong, it is nicer than most blowback 9mm's but compared to an MP5 even in semi auto, it just isn't as smooth. I keep meaning to post my experiences in the SBR section... I tested with two uppers (8" 300 Blackout and 12.5" 5.56), three ammo types (5.56 supers, 300 Blackout supers and subs), and with and without my suppressor (Specwar 762). The results were that everything felt smoother and reliable with one exception - subsonic 300 Blackout without the suppressor failed to hold the bolt open on the last round. I can live with that. The recoil was almost nothing, and I don't know how often I would shoot subs without the suppressor anyway. Now that SHOT is over and FM Products said they do not have a delayed blow back offering yet, I'm going to buy the CMMG 8" bolt/barrel combo and build a Guard upper. I already have the Endomags, so it's just a matter of finalizing which parts I want for the upper and placing the orders. |
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Based on your research and the results from others, I already swapped out my SBR's buffer, spring, and buffer tube (all standard carbine) with an A5 tube, Griffin SOB buffer, spacer, and Tubbs flatwire spring. |
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I had rated the Griffin SOB #2 of the ones I had tested with the Guard in full auto at the time but still think the 9mm Kynshot in the A5 w/ no spacer is the best all around. I use it in all my 556 configurations as well as 9mm. Then I'll need to start saving for a red dot for it ... Then I need to start saving for a 9mm suppressor for it ... It never ends, does it? Every time I see someone make a post that says they finished something, I always laugh because none of my rifles ever get finished. 
ETA - When I first swapped out the above parts, the VLTOR tube stuck out just a hair from the rear of the standard stock I was using when collapsed all the way. This didn't bother me because I never collapse the stock all the way. My wife bought me a Magpul CTR stock for Christmas, and it will not collapse all the way on the A5 tube. Again, this doesn't bother me, but may be an issue for others? |
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ETA - When I first swapped out the above parts, the VLTOR tube stuck out just a hair from the rear of the standard stock I was using when collapsed all the way. This didn't bother me because I never collapse the stock all the way. My wife bought me a Magpul CTR stock for Christmas, and it will not collapse all the way on the A5 tube. Again, this doesn't bother me, but may be an issue for others? Check my video on page 14. Waiting to see how a suppressor affects the feel which is great currently. ps. I am using the tube that came with the CTR stock so I needed the shorter buffer. |
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Don't know if anyone else is following the FM Products thread.
While they have not come out with their own delayed blow back 9mm (yet?), they did say that in Feb or Mar they will have an online retailer offering their upper with everything but the barrel and BCG so that you can use the Guard barrel and BCG. I had already decided to get the 8" Guard barrel/bolt combo, now I'm going to wait on the rest of the parts until I see what the FM Products offering costs. I'm glad I decided to wait a few days. ETA: Quoted:
We can help w an upper kit, and you can get a barrel and bcg from cmmg. There is an online retailer going live in february that will offer the kit (everything minus barrel and bcg). |
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Quoted: Speaking of waiting a few days: I'm glad I didn't spring for a 9mm blowback rig until CMMG and Mean Arms came out with their innovations. The timing was perfect. When I first built my SBR, I used a CMMG 7.3" 5.56 upper. It was ... not optimal. I thought about a pistol caliber conversion, but at the time you had to deal with special hammers, ramped bolts, widened out pin holes, having to remove the bolt catch, set screws, tuning, bending extractors just right, buffers, spacers, springs, etc. I finally gave up on the idea of a 9mm conversion and went with 300 Blackout (change barrel and nothing else). I missed 5.56, so I built a second upper, this time I went with 12.5". I came looking around the Rimfire and Pistol Caliber section a while back and saw the thread about the Endomag (jumped on the pre-order), which then lead me to looking at the Guard (changed pre-order to Guard version). I was planning on building a .308 AR this year, but after seeing the Endomag and the Guard, I decided to go with 9mm now. |
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Don't know if anyone else is following the FM Products thread. While they have not come out with their own delayed blow back 9mm (yet?), they did say that in Feb or Mar they will have an online retailer offering their upper with everything but the barrel and BCG so that you can use the Guard barrel and BCG. I had already decided to get the 8" Guard barrel/bolt combo, now I'm going to wait on the rest of the parts until I see what the FM Products offering costs. Though, as mentioned below, I do have a CMMG "standard" 9mm bolt and barrel, from an earlier proposed build (that never materialized). I can't decide if I want to put those together, or just sell them to offset the Guard parts. Additionally, the recent work with converting bolts to alter the blowback timing DOES have me considering waiting. If that is tweaked further, and the extractor is altered to be more reliable, that would be an ideal setup (other than the buffer tube length inherent in the AR design). |
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There are a bazillion upper options available already. The BCG and barrel are the only CMMG / Guard / radial blowback components. What is FMP proposing that they are offering, then? I don't see a reason to wait, based up on this. https://fm-products.com/upper-receiver-glock/ https://fm-products.com/upper-receiver-colt/ ETA - additional link |
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Additionally, the recent work with converting bolts to alter the blowback timing DOES have me considering waiting. If that is tweaked further, and the extractor is altered to be more reliable, that would be an ideal setup Quoted:
Additionally, the recent work with converting bolts to alter the blowback timing DOES have me considering waiting. If that is tweaked further, and the extractor is altered to be more reliable, that would be an ideal setup (other than the buffer tube length inherent in the AR design). I have some of the cool super compact stocks but I think they all just don't shoot as smooth no matter what type of buffer and spring you cram in those tiny setups. Same goes for any configuration where you contain the springs in receiver. |
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FM Products 9mm upper is a front charging, non-reciprocating upper. https://fm-products.com/upper-receiver-glock/ https://fm-products.com/upper-receiver-colt/ ETA - additional link Quoted:
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There are a bazillion upper options available already. The BCG and barrel are the only CMMG / Guard / radial blowback components. What is FMP proposing that they are offering, then? I don't see a reason to wait, based up on this. https://fm-products.com/upper-receiver-glock/ https://fm-products.com/upper-receiver-colt/ ETA - additional link |
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Maybe I'm just old school but I have zero interest in all these side chargers. I shoot and reload from both the strong and support side....that sucks with a sidecharger unless you have the handle on both sides. I personally prefer a good ambi charging handle and use the same setup for PCC or rifle. I also don't like limiting myself to a specific handguard type/manufacturer. Part of me says to just use a standard upper and then all of my uppers will be similar and I won't have to relearn anything. I think that was the idea behind the Endomag as well - keep the mags the same across calibers, everything is the same. I'm a "nose to the charging handle" shooter with ARs. I like the idea of being able to keep cheek weld with my eyes on the sights and charging from the front if it goes click instead of bang. It may very well come down to price for me. It would be nice if I knew someone close by that had an FM Products upper that I could try. I'm already familiar with regular ARs, going with the front charging would be completely new to me. Also, not to derail further, but are ambi charging handles on a standard upper really worth it? I can work my plain jane stock charging handle with either hand without any issues. When I saw that CMMG shipped their Guard uppers with an ambi charging handle, my first thought was "why?" I've never tried one, though, so I could be missing out. ETA - just got my SBR out and transitioned back and forth, strong side, weak side. No issues working regular charging handle with either hand. Second edit - just realized that I pointed out that I'm a "nose to the charging handle" shooter, but that would have to change with the front charger... Third edit  - I just searched for why people would want an ambi charging handle and found a good remark about being able to pull on one side only. Throughout my time with M16s and now ARs, I had never once tried pulling on one side, I've always used my first two fingers to pull both sides at once. I actually do see some benefit to that now. I guess I never really thought about it.
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Also, not to derail further, but are ambi charging handles on a standard upper really worth it? I can work my plain jane stock charging handle with either hand without any issues. When I saw that CMMG shipped their Guard uppers with an ambi charging handle, my first thought was "why?" I've never tried one, though, so I could be missing out. Ambidextrous all the way: big safety selector paddles, mag release, and bolt stop both sides. |
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Part of me says to just use a standard upper and then all of my uppers will be similar and I won't have to relearn anything. I think that was the idea behind the Endomag as well - keep the mags the same across calibers, everything is the same. Then there is relearning aspect. I can pick up any AR and feel at home. The only side charging AR/M16 setups are all belt fed. 9mm Belt Fed FM9, LM7 Belt Fed and 556 Belt fed Shrike. I'll deal with side chargers for those but I don't run around with those and consider them all toys. For anything serious, I want all standard as much as possible. The only place I deviate is w/ the PDQ ambi bolt release/hold open that I really like....all my 'serious' setups use this and after I profiled it so it doesn't fight with my dust cover, I've had zero issues with it. I was debating myself if I wanted to go with something non-standard but again I personally feel it gives a considerable advantage to me. I love being able to lock the bolt back with my right index finger and drop the bolt as well.....just like you can do w/ any AR if you are left handed. |
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See circled area. I just put in the previous $330.xx price they had listed for the 8" guard, and got a "we'll take it" email.https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/234167/optics_plane_price_match_JPG-817751.JPG I might have pushed my luck though. In the message I told them that I had it in my cart at the old price with a coupon code for a total of around $303. I asked if they would price match to the old price including coupon code. Still waiting. I did go to their other site, DVOR. They have the bolt/barrel combo there for $329. I could not get any coupon codes to work there, though. I hope to hear from them one way or the other about the price match so I can move forward. Gotta save those pennies. |
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Maybe I'm just old school but I have zero interest in all these side chargers. I shoot and reload from both the strong and support side....that sucks with a sidecharger unless you have the handle on both sides. I personally prefer a good ambi charging handle and use the same setup for PCC or rifle. I also don't like limiting myself to a specific handguard type/manufacturer. MHO, YMMV, etc. |
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I only have one side charger upper (a 9mm set up on a dedicated Glock mag lower), and I've found that the door on the rear of the upper receiver that stops gas and debris from blowing out the back and into the shooter's face is a pretty nice feature. ETA:...I guess I do get a little puff when shooting left handed but that is from the ejection port. I don't notice anything shooting right handed. I don't know what your configuration is and happy you found something that works for you....that is what I love about the AR/M16 family...so many options to choose from to do what YOU need it to do. |
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Finally got a response back from Optics Planet - from my email from 3 days ago.
They sent me a counter offer. I didn't see anything in the email about actually placing the order, just a price they would accept. I replied back to the email - wonder if it will be another 3 days before I hear back. 
ETA - I decided to use their live chat (after being on hold on the phone for 30 minutes). They said to use the price match I could order through the chat. They said it will ship today or Monday, so now I just need to finalize the rest of the build and I'll be able to put those CMMG version Endomags to use. |
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How many people here that built their own upper with the bolt/barrel combo used uppers with enlarged ejection ports, or widened the ejection port of a regular upper receiver?
On the last page, Steamedliver sounded like he was having good luck with a standard upper. I've seen it mentioned that the widened port was needed more for the 45 Guard? |
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How many people here that built their own upper with the bolt/barrel combo used uppers with enlarged ejection ports, or widened the ejection port of a regular upper receiver? On the last page, Steamedliver sounded like he was having good luck with a standard upper. I've seen it mentioned that the widened port was needed more for the 45 Guard? |
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I did. Works fine. Another user posted its a standard upper with a little sanding and it is. I have a Guard Banshee for comparison. I then compared the size of the 9mm brass to the size of the 300 Blackout brass. Looks to the naked eye like it should be fine. I went ahead and ordered a standard upper for the build. If I have any issues, I'll widen it out by hand. Thanks to everyone for all of the replies and information. I have ordered the majority of the parts I will need for the build based on the 8" Guard barrel and bolt. And now the waiting game begins... |
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Does anyone know if a Magpul BEV block will work on a Guard 9mm build? I'm thinking that it should since there are lugs. Has anyone tried one? ETA - I just reached out to CMMG support - will update when I receive a response. |
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Finally got all the parts for my basic Guard build and put it together this afternoon. Unfortunately, by the time I was done, the closest range was closed, so I didn't get to test fire yet.
8" Guard barrel and bolt, 9mm Aero standard upper MI 7" handguard LMT fixed A2 style sights standard charging handle 9mm A2 flash hider The lower is my SBR lower which I recently rebuilt with an A5 receiver. VLTOR A5 receiver Griffin SOB buffer Tubbs flatwire spring Frontier armory spacer I am using Endomags in Gen 2 PMAGS and have noticed an issue already with rounds not feeding (getting jammed halfway in). I'll post more about it in the Endomag thread. 
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.22 TCM9R Not trying to hijack the thread. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/3591/20181108_143519_jpg-818248.JPG |
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Got to the range today.
I went into more detail in the Endomag thread, but it looks like there was some breaking in needed, which seems to have been accomplished. I really don't have anything to compare it to, because I've never fired a 9mm AR before, but I'm very happy with the way it performed. I expected it to be smooth (I took advice from Amphibian's experience with buffers, springs, etc.), but I was caught off guard at first by how little it came off target and how soon I could get the next shot lined up. There were a couple times I wondered if the first shot from a new mag had actually fired, but I could see the hole in the target, so I knew it had. Between the delayed blowback and the buffer set up I described earlier, it was a joy to shoot. I'm using fixed sights now, but I plan on getting a red dot in the near future and then a suppressor after that. |
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Got to the range today. I expected it to be smooth (I took advice from Amphibian's experience with buffers, springs, etc.), but I was caught off guard at first by how little it came off target and how soon I could get the next shot lined up. There were a couple times I wondered if the first shot from a new mag had actually fired, but I could see the hole in the target, so I knew it had. |
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I believe the FM Products upper ships with an ambi charging handle. I've seen one that could be used left or right and one that comes out on both sides. Part of me says to just use a standard upper and then all of my uppers will be similar and I won't have to relearn anything. I think that was the idea behind the Endomag as well - keep the mags the same across calibers, everything is the same. I'm a "nose to the charging handle" shooter with ARs. I like the idea of being able to keep cheek weld with my eyes on the sights and charging from the front if it goes click instead of bang. It may very well come down to price for me. It would be nice if I knew someone close by that had an FM Products upper that I could try. I'm already familiar with regular ARs, going with the front charging would be completely new to me. Also, not to derail further, but are ambi charging handles on a standard upper really worth it? I can work my plain jane stock charging handle with either hand without any issues. When I saw that CMMG shipped their Guard uppers with an ambi charging handle, my first thought was "why?" I've never tried one, though, so I could be missing out. ETA - just got my SBR out and transitioned back and forth, strong side, weak side. No issues working regular charging handle with either hand. Second edit - just realized that I pointed out that I'm a "nose to the charging handle" shooter, but that would have to change with the front charger... Third edit - I just searched for why people would want an ambi charging handle and found a good remark about being able to pull on one side only. Throughout my time with M16s and now ARs, I had never once tried pulling on one side, I've always used my first two fingers to pull both sides at once. I actually do see some benefit to that now. I guess I never really thought about it.Quoted:
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Maybe I'm just old school but I have zero interest in all these side chargers. I shoot and reload from both the strong and support side....that sucks with a sidecharger unless you have the handle on both sides. I personally prefer a good ambi charging handle and use the same setup for PCC or rifle. I also don't like limiting myself to a specific handguard type/manufacturer. Part of me says to just use a standard upper and then all of my uppers will be similar and I won't have to relearn anything. I think that was the idea behind the Endomag as well - keep the mags the same across calibers, everything is the same. I'm a "nose to the charging handle" shooter with ARs. I like the idea of being able to keep cheek weld with my eyes on the sights and charging from the front if it goes click instead of bang. It may very well come down to price for me. It would be nice if I knew someone close by that had an FM Products upper that I could try. I'm already familiar with regular ARs, going with the front charging would be completely new to me. Also, not to derail further, but are ambi charging handles on a standard upper really worth it? I can work my plain jane stock charging handle with either hand without any issues. When I saw that CMMG shipped their Guard uppers with an ambi charging handle, my first thought was "why?" I've never tried one, though, so I could be missing out. ETA - just got my SBR out and transitioned back and forth, strong side, weak side. No issues working regular charging handle with either hand. Second edit - just realized that I pointed out that I'm a "nose to the charging handle" shooter, but that would have to change with the front charger... Third edit - I just searched for why people would want an ambi charging handle and found a good remark about being able to pull on one side only. Throughout my time with M16s and now ARs, I had never once tried pulling on one side, I've always used my first two fingers to pull both sides at once. I actually do see some benefit to that now. I guess I never really thought about it.
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Recently assembled a Guard 16" upper and tried it for the first time with some Endomags which i was also trying out for the first time (using pmag Gen 2 bodies). Guard version of the endomags of course. Worked pretty much flawlessly. I think i had one failure to feed on the first round using the charging handle, but i think it's cuz I didn't seat the round all the way to the rear on the Endomag. Charged it a second time and it worked fine after that no other issues. I had a kynshot hydraulic buffer in my lower based on some of the stuff Amphibian had written in other threads. I just went with the standard carbine model from Kynshot along with a standard carbine spring. Holy crap this setup shoots soft! I'd put it up there with the MPX. Maybe softer. I don't know if it was moreso the radial delayed blowback or the combination of the hydraulic buffer but I'll be buying a Guard barrel+bcg for my pistol AR9 soon. I was having too much fun to try out other buffers or springs lol. It's probably my fourth or fifth revision to my AR9 setup after wasting a lot of time and money on different springs, heavy buffers, triggers etc only to get a crap ton of recoil and the possibility of hammer follow. I think i finally found a winner in the Guard. The fact that i can use whatever trigger i want combined with the endomags, I get to keep the same manual of arms and reliable LRBHO in a much softer shooting package. Not that I'm recoil averse but a gun shouldn't feel like it's going to beat itself to death like some of the straight blowback AR9's can. |
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I've ordered an Endomag to try out. The Guard setup has certainly been an upgrade from the previous direct blowback operation but I'm still not super thrilled with the reliability of my QC10 Glock lower.
God knows how many times my 9mm setup has changed over the last years. It's my least shot rig because it's been so damn finicky. I need to nut up and get down to straightening it out. I may also try the A5/PA10 receiver extension. I hear the Magpul SR-25 tube is the same as the A5 and offers 10 adjustment points so I may try that as well and snag Vltor's A5 buffer tuning kit when it comes out. |
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I've ordered an Endomag to try out. The Guard setup has certainly been an upgrade from the previous direct blowback operation but I'm still not super thrilled with the reliability of my QC10 Glock lower. God knows how many times my 9mm setup has changed over the last years. It's my least shot rig because it's been so damn finicky. I need to nut up and get down to straightening it out. I may also try the A5/PA10 receiver extension. I hear the Magpul SR-25 tube is the same as the A5 and offers 10 adjustment points so I may try that as well and snag Vltor's A5 buffer tuning kit when it comes out. You will love the RDB Guard/Endomag combo. I had to test a couple buffers/springs (working with info from amphibian's and other posts) to get my rig smooth as silk but it was a piece of cake. The Endomag thread covers any simple tweaks that you might need to make. Minor stuff. |
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You will love the RDB Guard/Endomag combo. I had to test a couple buffers/springs (working with info from amphibian's and other posts) to get my rig smooth as silk but it was a piece of cake. The Endomag thread covers any simple tweaks that you might need to make. Minor stuff. The Guard/Endomag combo is what got me from wanting a 9mm AR to having one. |
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I agree with HDSledge. The Guard/Endomag combo is what got me from wanting a 9mm AR to having one. Quoted:
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You will love the RDB Guard/Endomag combo. I had to test a couple buffers/springs (working with info from amphibian's and other posts) to get my rig smooth as silk but it was a piece of cake. The Endomag thread covers any simple tweaks that you might need to make. Minor stuff. The Guard/Endomag combo is what got me from wanting a 9mm AR to having one. |
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Quoted: That's good news. I have a bunch of Gen 2 pmags that need a home so if this works out I'll go all out. I'm going to try a longer buffer tube and fiddle with buffers to get the right combo. I'lll never forget the first shot with this system. It was a wow! moment. Each shot gives you a light nudge rather than a jolt. |
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Specifically Guard upper and NO EndoMags. I’ve been reading to get the Guard 9mm upper to work with Colt patterned lower, quite a few modifications need to be made. Mainly to each magazine. Correct me if I am wrong. That’s not something I want to do. Will the Guard upper work on a Glock patterned lower without much modification? I’m asking because I have a Glock and Colt lower already SBR’ed. Hate for them to go to waste. |
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Specifically Guard upper and NO EndoMags. I’ve been reading to get the Guard 9mm upper to work with Colt patterned lower, quite a few modifications need to be made. Mainly to each magazine. Correct me if I am wrong. That’s not something I want to do. Will the Guard upper work on a Glock patterned lower without much modification? I’m asking because I have a Glock and Colt lower already SBR’ed. Hate for them to go to waste. |
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Quoted: My Guard upper works with my QC10 Glock small frame lower. However, since day 1 (even prior to Gaurd conversion) my last round bolt hold has never been fully reliable. What modifications did you have to make? |
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Quoted: Ha ha. Same with me. I have DDLES lower, precursor to QC10. LRBHO never worked. What modifications did you have to make? |
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I have a different lower but my buffer weight/spring strength was the main factor influencing lrbho. It was all about being a tad too heavy in the buffer or a tad too strong on the spring. I had a couple combos to try out. Some worked great others not at all. Maybe going to a bit lighter spring for a test? It’s my AK 9. |
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Quoted: I’ve tried a lot of combinations. Sometimes, wisdom is to accept that it is what it is and move on. I’m done fooling with the LRBHO on this lower. It’s my AK 9. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Thoughts on the CMMG Guard? (Page 15 of 25)
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