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Posted: 1/6/2018 4:56:54 PM EDT
[#1]
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It’s probably none of that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is there any idea why DD was chosen for the barrel over FN chf? ETA but then again, SOCOM funding isn't AS limited, so it could be another (maybe performance) factor from testing |
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Posted: 1/6/2018 5:10:50 PM EDT
[#2]
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I believe Mark Westrom`s ArmaLite studied the benefits of a midlength gas system in detail. ArmaLite offered the first production midlength uppers and carbines IIRC. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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One can only hope, but with that said, I believe Colt did an actual study on the pros/cons of Carbine vs Mid-length gas systems and found there were no quality gains in going to a Mid-length setup. But I would be interested to see how, if any, much longer parts last on a 3 position rifle with a Mid-length gas system as opposed to carbine. |
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Posted: 1/6/2018 6:10:51 PM EDT
[#3]
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What do you think it is? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is there any idea why DD was chosen for the barrel over FN chf? ETA but then again, SOCOM funding isn't AS limited, so it could be another (maybe performance) factor from testing That just my opinion, though, and after reading what I just wrote, I doubt it’ll make any sense to anyone, esp me! 
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Posted: 1/6/2018 6:17:22 PM EDT
[#4]
If the URG does not come with the G's new bolt, I will wait.
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Posted: 1/6/2018 6:25:13 PM EDT
[#5]
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While I think price is a factor, I think the other benefits of the DD midlength barrel are far more important in choosing that barrel over others. New uppers means new barrels means new contracts means getting what end users want vs what’s forced on them. DD gave them what they wanted vs what they already had. That just my opinion, though, and after reading what I just wrote, I doubt it’ll make any sense to anyone, esp me! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is there any idea why DD was chosen for the barrel over FN chf? ETA but then again, SOCOM funding isn't AS limited, so it could be another (maybe performance) factor from testing That just my opinion, though, and after reading what I just wrote, I doubt it’ll make any sense to anyone, esp me!  If there are pro's of the DD (CHF too I think?) barrel over the FN CHF, that makes perfect sense too.I just figure if you have 2 barrels, both CHF, both mid length gas, both 14.5 .gov pro, difference being FN or DD I would guess that decision came down to cost. But honestly who the hell knows, could be something as simple as "the man" at DD was friends with "the man" making the call. 
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Posted: 1/6/2018 7:04:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the URG does not come with the G's new bolt, I will wait. |
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Posted: 1/6/2018 9:40:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Block III is here
So Cola warrior rifles for USASOC
All hail Super Precision!!! https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/upper-receivers/ar-15-socom-upper-receiver-group-improved-5-56-m-lok-prod114412.aspx?avs%7CManufacturer_1=GEISSELE%2BAUTOMATICS%2BLLC |
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Posted: 1/6/2018 9:49:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Block III is here
So Cola warrior rifles for USASOC
All hail Super Precision!!! https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/upper-receivers/ar-15-socom-upper-receiver-group-improved-5-56-m-lok-prod114412.aspx?avs%7CManufacturer_1=GEISSELE%2BAUTOMATICS%2BLLC What's DD's response gonna be with regards to if they will sell their rails minus the upper now?
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Posted: 1/6/2018 10:20:29 PM EDT
[#9]
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So no BUIS....so we are at KAC prices, with no improved gas, no improved BCG, no BUIS, etc. Doubt I will get this any time soon. What's DD's response gonna be with regards to if they will sell their rails minus the upper now? URG w/ milspec bcg and no irons - $1379 KAC SR15-E3 - E3 enhanced BCG, KAK irons - $1700 So you get a lot more for the extra $321. But if "value + performance" were primary concerns, the various SOPMOD clones would not nearly be as popular as they are 
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Posted: 1/6/2018 11:14:20 PM EDT
[#10]
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So no BUIS....so we are at KAC prices, with no improved gas, no improved BCG, no BUIS, etc. Doubt I will get this any time soon. What's DD's response gonna be with regards to if they will sell their rails minus the upper now? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Block III is here
So Cola warrior rifles for USASOC
All hail Super Precision!!! https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/upper-receivers/ar-15-socom-upper-receiver-group-improved-5-56-m-lok-prod114412.aspx?avs%7CManufacturer_1=GEISSELE%2BAUTOMATICS%2BLLC What's DD's response gonna be with regards to if they will sell their rails minus the upper now? DD is still keeping their sweet Gov $$$$ flowing since the new upper will be using a DD barrel. |
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Posted: 1/6/2018 11:16:02 PM EDT
[#11]
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Yes, per Brownels pricing: URG w/ milspec bcg and no irons - $1379 KAC SR15-E3 - E3 enhanced BCG, KAK irons - $1700 So you get a lot more for the extra $321. But if "value + performance" were primary concerns, the various SOPMOD clones would not nearly be as popular as they are Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So no BUIS....so we are at KAC prices, with no improved gas, no improved BCG, no BUIS, etc. Doubt I will get this any time soon. What's DD's response gonna be with regards to if they will sell their rails minus the upper now? URG w/ milspec bcg and no irons - $1379 KAC SR15-E3 - E3 enhanced BCG, KAK irons - $1700 So you get a lot more for the extra $321. But if "value + performance" were primary concerns, the various SOPMOD clones would not nearly be as popular as they are
Price is not a issue to many as long as it is clone correct. |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 4:31:23 AM EDT
[#12]
Is this gonna be the official Block III thread?
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Posted: 1/7/2018 9:51:52 AM EDT
[#13]
So the barrel is DD, but what about the upper and BCG? I saw the upper had a "o" forging in the Brownell's add.
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Posted: 1/7/2018 12:02:53 PM EDT
[#14]
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So the barrel is DD, but what about the upper and BCG? I saw the upper had a "o" forging in the Brownell's add. |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 4:17:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Aren’t they buying DD barrels now for the block 2? Or rather, uppers? Uppers are standard NSN. Regarding the Brownells ones, SF Warcomps were only there for photography, what was on hand. SF3Ps it is. S/F |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 4:32:04 PM EDT
[#16]
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Since the benefits of a 20” rifle and it’s gas system are well known the mid length in theory splits the difference. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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One can only hope, but with that said, I believe Colt did an actual study on the pros/cons of Carbine vs Mid-length gas systems and found there were no quality gains in going to a Mid-length setup. But I would be interested to see how, if any, much longer parts last on a 3 position rifle with a Mid-length gas system as opposed to carbine. There is a statistically significant gain in MRBS due to a significant drop in bolt carrier speeds. The dwell time change is just fine for M855A1, and suppressed use. If you're firing a 14.5" gun today in a serious capacity, using full power duty ammunition, mid length is the unemotional and optimal answer. S/F |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 5:04:48 PM EDT
[#17]
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Regarding the Brownells ones, SF Warcomps were only there for photography, what was on hand. SF3Ps it is. S/F |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 5:08:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Right, my guys at Batt said they get uppers from DD NIW. The PL I knew there mandated the Block 2 when the Block 1 was still authorized because “it is quantifiably more accurate.”
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Posted: 1/7/2018 5:23:02 PM EDT
[#19]
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The brownells listing specifically says the urgi comes with a warcomp Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Regarding the Brownells ones, SF Warcomps were only there for photography, what was on hand. SF3Ps it is. S/F S/F |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 5:28:56 PM EDT
[#20]
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That's incorrect and will be corrected soon, good Sir! Those were just a stand in. S/F Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Regarding the Brownells ones, SF Warcomps were only there for photography, what was on hand. SF3Ps it is. S/F S/F |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 5:34:30 PM EDT
[#21]
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Interesting. I'm surprised the SF3P was picked over the SF4P. Honestly I would've guessed the SF3P would be LAST to get picked over the SF4P, open tined 3P warcomp, and SF3P I'm surprised the Warcomp wasn't chosen, as I like it better than the SF3P. |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 5:37:33 PM EDT
[#22]
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For the civilian market, the SF3P will be on the new URG-I upper sold by Geissele. The .mil version will feature the SF4P. I'm surprised the Warcomp wasn't chosen, as I like it better than the SF3P. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Interesting. I'm surprised the SF3P was picked over the SF4P. Honestly I would've guessed the SF3P would be LAST to get picked over the SF4P, open tined 3P warcomp, and SF3P I'm surprised the Warcomp wasn't chosen, as I like it better than the SF3P. I guess I should start leaving disclaimers, I only give a damn about the as-issued parts. Lol I'm surprised it wasn't too. Maybe if it was a open tined 4P.
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Posted: 1/7/2018 6:11:35 PM EDT
[#23]
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Now that makes more sense. I guess I should start leaving disclaimers, I only give a damn about the as-issued parts. Lol I'm surprised it wasn't too. Maybe if it was a open tined 4P. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Interesting. I'm surprised the SF3P was picked over the SF4P. Honestly I would've guessed the SF3P would be LAST to get picked over the SF4P, open tined 3P warcomp, and SF3P I'm surprised the Warcomp wasn't chosen, as I like it better than the SF3P. I guess I should start leaving disclaimers, I only give a damn about the as-issued parts. Lol I'm surprised it wasn't too. Maybe if it was a open tined 4P. What about gas block? DD or Geissele? |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 7:41:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Not that it really matters, but just more of a huh type thing..... 14.5 midlength, I wonder what the gas port size is..... And as someone said, if it's optimized for M855A1, what might that mean for other ammo.
And to further that, I wonder if the plan is to use a standard CAR buffer or still go with an H2....... |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 7:51:06 PM EDT
[#25]
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Not that it really matters, but just more of a huh type thing..... 14.5 midlength, I wonder what the gas port size is..... And as someone said, if it's optimized for M855A1, what might that mean for other ammo. And to further that, I wonder if the plan is to use a standard CAR buffer or still go with an H2....... Other quality ammunition runs just fine. I've run them with 70gr. Brown Tip, A059, AB57, AB49, AA53/67, and a slew of others. ETA - Have NOT tried it with Mk255 Mod 0 RRLP. I believe folks have, but will try it and report back if I can remember. Buffer assembly configuration is standard carbine spring with H2 buffer for foreseeable future. Mid term plan is to delve into bolt enhancements so bolt/barrel changes are at 1:1 ratio. Hope this helps! S/F |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 7:58:01 PM EDT
[#26]
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0.076" gas port. Other quality ammunition runs just fine. I've run them with 70gr. Brown Tip, A059, AB57, AB49, AA53/67, and a slew of others. ETA - Have NOT tried it with Mk255 Mod 0 RRLP. I believe folks have, but will try it and report back if I can remember. Buffer assembly configuration is standard carbine spring with H2 buffer for foreseeable future. Mid term plan is to delve into bolt enhancements so bolt/barrel changes are at 1:1 ratio. Hope this helps! S/F Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not that it really matters, but just more of a huh type thing..... 14.5 midlength, I wonder what the gas port size is..... And as someone said, if it's optimized for M855A1, what might that mean for other ammo. And to further that, I wonder if the plan is to use a standard CAR buffer or still go with an H2....... Other quality ammunition runs just fine. I've run them with 70gr. Brown Tip, A059, AB57, AB49, AA53/67, and a slew of others. ETA - Have NOT tried it with Mk255 Mod 0 RRLP. I believe folks have, but will try it and report back if I can remember. Buffer assembly configuration is standard carbine spring with H2 buffer for foreseeable future. Mid term plan is to delve into bolt enhancements so bolt/barrel changes are at 1:1 ratio. Hope this helps! S/F There's our gas port diameter GS5414, can we get you to answer some of the questions in our URG-I thread? For starters we need the full as-issued parts list (so we can clone them, don't worry I'm not a commie)
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Posted: 1/7/2018 8:02:15 PM EDT
[#27]
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@pezboytate There's our gas port diameter GS5414, can we get you to answer some of the questions in our URG-I thread? For starters we need the full as-issued parts list (so we can clone them, don't worry I'm not a commie) |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 8:05:35 PM EDT
[#28]
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No just a shameless clone trooper. Leave it to you guys to make me not want to use geissele just so I'm not mistaken as one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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@pezboytate There's our gas port diameter GS5414, can we get you to answer some of the questions in our URG-I thread? For starters we need the full as-issued parts list (so we can clone them, don't worry I'm not a commie)
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Posted: 1/7/2018 8:08:13 PM EDT
[#29]
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No skin off my back, that's your loss. |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 8:12:24 PM EDT
[#30]
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Its a shame tapco didnt win so you guys could jump through hoops to clone a pile of retard. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No skin off my back, that's your loss. |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 8:16:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@pezboytate There's our gas port diameter GS5414, can we get you to answer some of the questions in our URG-I thread? For starters we need the full as-issued parts list (so we can clone them, don't worry I'm not a commie) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not that it really matters, but just more of a huh type thing..... 14.5 midlength, I wonder what the gas port size is..... And as someone said, if it's optimized for M855A1, what might that mean for other ammo. And to further that, I wonder if the plan is to use a standard CAR buffer or still go with an H2....... Other quality ammunition runs just fine. I've run them with 70gr. Brown Tip, A059, AB57, AB49, AA53/67, and a slew of others. ETA - Have NOT tried it with Mk255 Mod 0 RRLP. I believe folks have, but will try it and report back if I can remember. Buffer assembly configuration is standard carbine spring with H2 buffer for foreseeable future. Mid term plan is to delve into bolt enhancements so bolt/barrel changes are at 1:1 ratio. Hope this helps! S/F There's our gas port diameter GS5414, can we get you to answer some of the questions in our URG-I thread? For starters we need the full as-issued parts list (so we can clone them, don't worry I'm not a commie) |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 8:21:43 PM EDT
[#32]
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He's in there now. Where was he posting? Geissele Industry forum? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not that it really matters, but just more of a huh type thing..... 14.5 midlength, I wonder what the gas port size is..... And as someone said, if it's optimized for M855A1, what might that mean for other ammo. And to further that, I wonder if the plan is to use a standard CAR buffer or still go with an H2....... Other quality ammunition runs just fine. I've run them with 70gr. Brown Tip, A059, AB57, AB49, AA53/67, and a slew of others. ETA - Have NOT tried it with Mk255 Mod 0 RRLP. I believe folks have, but will try it and report back if I can remember. Buffer assembly configuration is standard carbine spring with H2 buffer for foreseeable future. Mid term plan is to delve into bolt enhancements so bolt/barrel changes are at 1:1 ratio. Hope this helps! S/F There's our gas port diameter GS5414, can we get you to answer some of the questions in our URG-I thread? For starters we need the full as-issued parts list (so we can clone them, don't worry I'm not a commie) |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 8:22:04 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ya never know. UTG/TAPCO/Radical Firearms SOPMOD block 4 is always a possibility. |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 8:26:31 PM EDT
[#34]
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I didnt know SOPMOD had put out a block 3. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Ya never know. UTG/TAPCO/Radical Firearms SOPMOD block 4 is always a possibility. |
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Posted: 1/8/2018 6:06:09 AM EDT
[#35]
I used to get flamed in here for liking 14.5 mid lengths and CHF barrels.
Almost as funny as the Nevertrumpers after Trump got elected. |
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Posted: 1/8/2018 9:11:40 AM EDT
[#36]
Hey @GS5414,
What's the approximate cyclic rate of the new guns? I've been a long time fan of the Colt button rifled 14.5" CAR (0.062") gas guns. I use them with H2 buffers and Springco GREEN carbine action springs with the LMT Enhanced bolt carrier groups. I wonder how big a difference the cyclic rates are between the two. I'm at about 600. I'm tempted to pop an H3 and see what that looks like. I might have to try a DD barrel. Granted, that means I'll have to get another DD Omega rail. I'll have to get the 9" one. |
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Posted: 1/8/2018 6:44:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey @GS5414, What's the approximate cyclic rate of the new guns? I've been a long time fan of the Colt button rifled 14.5" CAR (0.062") gas guns. I use them with H2 buffers and Springco GREEN carbine action springs with the LMT Enhanced bolt carrier groups. I wonder how big a difference the cyclic rates are between the two. I'm at about 600. I'm tempted to pop an H3 and see what that looks like. I might have to try a DD barrel. Granted, that means I'll have to get another DD Omega rail. I'll have to get the 9" one. For reference, Surefire had tested a 14.5" midlength FN and was getting 850rpm. |
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Posted: 1/8/2018 7:09:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used to get flamed in here for liking 14.5 mid lengths and CHF barrels. Almost as funny as the Nevertrumpers after Trump got elected. 
Although admittedly I've never had a 14.5 mid.... Just a 16". And it seems overgassed as it is. I'm thinking if it was cut to 14.5 it would be fine with whatever gas port is in there now and whatever ammo. But at present I just have a CAR buffer in it. It has run on a rifle lower, and one time I accidentally had a rifle spring with the car buffer in the lower. I'm not sure how I did that. And it ran fine and felt like it didn't have any recoil. I did change the spring back to a carbine spring once I noticed what I did. But maybe I should've just left it.
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Posted: 1/8/2018 10:11:18 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you confirm 600 rpm - was that measured with a shot counter or video? That would be fantastic performance. For reference, Surefire had tested a 14.5" midlength FN and was getting 850rpm. And I'm going based on feel, which is why I said ABOUT 600ish. I'm trying to find a reliable way to measure it now. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:10:54 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correction, Springco RED spring. And I'm going based on feel, which is why I said ABOUT 600ish. I'm trying to find a reliable way to measure it now. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 12:24:45 PM EDT
[#41]
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Might be because every 2 weeks somebody comes on here and says my 14.5 mid wont run on such and such ammo. So then people get the impression they don't work. But typically these guys are starting with an H2 buffer. And didn't know to start with a CAR buffer, some 5.56 pressure ammo, and some lube.
Although admittedly I've never had a 14.5 mid.... Just a 16". And it seems overgassed as it is. I'm thinking if it was cut to 14.5 it would be fine with whatever gas port is in there now and whatever ammo. But at present I just have a CAR buffer in it. It has run on a rifle lower, and one time I accidentally had a rifle spring with the car buffer in the lower. I'm not sure how I did that. And it ran fine and felt like it didn't have any recoil. I did change the spring back to a carbine spring once I noticed what I did. But maybe I should've just left it.Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I used to get flamed in here for liking 14.5 mid lengths and CHF barrels. Almost as funny as the Nevertrumpers after Trump got elected.
Although admittedly I've never had a 14.5 mid.... Just a 16". And it seems overgassed as it is. I'm thinking if it was cut to 14.5 it would be fine with whatever gas port is in there now and whatever ammo. But at present I just have a CAR buffer in it. It has run on a rifle lower, and one time I accidentally had a rifle spring with the car buffer in the lower. I'm not sure how I did that. And it ran fine and felt like it didn't have any recoil. I did change the spring back to a carbine spring once I noticed what I did. But maybe I should've just left it.
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Posted: 2/2/2018 12:05:44 AM EDT
[#42]
in for Derpness
urg? like a yourgie? yorkie? your..... what the eff happened to "upper"? lolz |
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Posted: 2/2/2018 3:10:36 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
in for Derpness urg? like a yourgie? yorkie? your..... what the eff happened to "upper"? lolz |
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Posted: 2/2/2018 4:36:53 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
in for Derpness urg? like a yourgie? yorkie? your..... what the eff happened to "upper"? lolz |
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