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12/9/2008 2:16:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Forest][Edited]
Ok this is another 'alternative caliber' that is becoming popular.  We should have some kind of FAQ on it.  How about we collect data here.  Please add your information on supplier or missing parts (in red), or new questions to the thread - thanks!

5.45x39

Link to Wikipedia Entry on the 5.45x39 to include Dimensions and History

How does the 5.45x39 AR-15 differ from a 'standard' .223/5.56 AR-15?

Barrel, Bolt, Magazines.  (sometimes lower if you want to use AK-74 magazines)
from Postal0311:
While you can use a standard lower fire control group, I had multiple failures to fire that way. The heavier spring gave me 100% ignition.

As well, the Geissele Hi-Speed trigger works 100%.


Lower Required
  • Can use any standard AR-15 (5.56/.223) lower to use AR type magazines, heavier hammer spring recommended.

  • Can also use the Special Weapons AR-47 lower with AK-74 magazines (with a slight modification to the magazine latch, and the upper needs to be milled to accept AK magazines).


  • Buffer
    Standard Buffer works.


    Barrel Threading
    Standard 5.56 muzzle threading 1/2"x28


    Sound Suppressor
    Courtesy of Postal0311
    You can use 5.56 suppressors if your barrel stabilizes the ammo you are using and you are willing to put corrosive residue in your can.


    Manufacturers of Rifles,
  • Alexander Arms ( Blackened Stainless, called .21 Ghengis - no longer in production)

  • S&W (16”;  1:8 twist, Chrome Lined, F-height FSB, M4 Profile)

  • Olympic Arms (16"; 1:10 twist, 416 Stainless, HBAR )



  • Manufacturers of Uppers
  • Alexander Arms ( Blackened Stainless, called .21 Ghengis - no longer in production)

  • S&W (16”;  1:8 twist, Chrome Lined, F-height FSB, M4 Profile)

  • Olympic Arms (16"; 1:10 twist, 416 Stainless, HBAR )

  • Palmetto State Armory (16" & 20"; 1:8 twist, E.R. Shaw HBAR)

  • Kurt's Kustom Firearms (used AK-74 barrel,  mid-length, F-height FSB)



  • Bolt Sources:
  • Alexander Arms

  • Kurt's Kustom will open up 5.56 Bolts per customer request

  • 6.8 SPC bolts can be used (though it's not a perfect fit)


  • Barrel Sources:
  • Pac-Nor (.222 bore, 4 groove, 1:7.7 or 1:10 twist)
  • Kurt's Kustom (can convert the AK-74 barrel you supply to an AR-15 barrel)


  • Magazines
  • C-Products (30 round)

  • How many will feed reliably out of a .223 magazine?

  • from BSF: 10  with occasional missfeeds.
    from HiramRanger: Uses 20 and 30 rounders with the old style followers... do NOT use green followes. Do not load to full capacity due to difference in taper of the rounds.
    from RS39:  Runs about 25 rnds on black follower AR mags, round taper/stack tilt limits total and mandates no green anti-tilt followers.

    from MOS2111: I have used HK, HK w/6.8 followers, and USGI with 6.8 followers. I can get between 17 to 26 rounds depending on the mag body. I have not found any "standard" mag body that holds a set amount. It seems to be a combination of body, follower and spring (surprise, right).  Most of the mags had no problems feeding and I only ran into problems on the last several rounds.  After I forced as many rounds as possible in the mag, and let them sit for 2 days until I could shoot. The only mag problems I ran into were failure to chamber, where the projectile and front of the case were "pinched" by the bolt.

  • Can you use a 6.8 SPC Magazine?


  • Q: Can you use a 7.62x39 Magazine?  
    A: No.


    Q: Can you use a 6.5 Grendle Magazine?
    A: No


    Q: Can you use a PMAG?
    A: No


    Reloading
    (from TheHighRoad thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-41407.html)
    There are no brass 5.45x39mm cases on the planet. But I resize new 222 Remington brass in a RCBS 5.45x39mm dies and trim to length. Resize.224" bullets in a Lee .221" lube & size die. Then load them with a powder charge half way between the 221 Rem Fireball and 222 Rem for the bullet weight I am using. The 5.45x39mm case capacity is 1/2 way between the two. I sent some 5.45x39mm ammo I made with Hornady 68gr HPBT match bullets to a guy in California. He got sub 1" groups at 100 yards from his East German SSG-85 bolt action 5.45x39mm rifle. I shot them in one of my Romanian CUR-2 AK rifles but was really only concerned about feeding/function and fire-forming the brass. I have reloaded the cases twice and only lost 3 of 100 to case splits.
    http://www.huntingtons.com/CustomDies.html for a full length sizing die set #56065 are $119.95.
    If you are going to shoot the ammo you make in a AK rifle make sure to order some CCI # 41 military spec small rifle primers as regular primers will give you slam fires.
    http://www.leeprecision.com/catalog....ze.html
    Call Lee and special order a .221" lube & size die for $25.
    ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
    The 220 Russian is a 7.62x39mm case necked down to use .224" bullets. It was a fairly popular benchrest round in northern Europe. This is the case that the 22 and 6mm PPC cartridges used by American benchrest shooters were made from. The reason Remington makes their 7.62x39mm cases to use small rifle primers while all other mfgs. use large rifle primers. Is so they could sell brass to benchrest shooters to form into PPC cases. This was done quite allot till Norma started making the PPC cases.
    I am JA545 of the quoted info in the above post.
    Still loading 5.45x39mm the same way and my latest project has been tracers. I bought some M-856 bullets from (http://iidbs.com/hitech/), then resized them in the Lee .221" lube & size die and loaded them up. They functioned and traced 100% in my Romanian AK rifle.  I have to add this about the availability of 5.45x39mm brass.
    ( http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/browse.cfm/4,670.html )
    But if you notice the * on the listing for the 5.45x39mm brass and this is from their website.  "If you see an * in the brass description then this case is formed from a more readily available case and will have the parent case headstamp on it. You may need to full length size and or trim your brass before loading."

    At their price for 100 brass I pretty much paid for my 5.45x39mm dies by making the first 100 brass from 222 Rem brass.


    How to Tell which Ammo is Corrosive and which isn't?
    Courtesty of Tom Dugas of Cobbs.com:
    Barnaul Arsenal in Russia is still producing today 5.56, 5.45, and 9mmMak using corrosive primers. TODAY. But, they use non-corrosive priming on commercial ammo for export. We hope. There is no way to tell with foreign ammo by simply looking at it. A test is the only absolute sure way.

    Home test for corrosive ammo:
    You will need to have FOUR controls for an accurate test:

    Positive Control - A known corrosively primed round (I use 1940 dated 7.62x54R)
    Negative Control - A known non-corrosively primed round (I use Remington .22LR)
    Control - A clean piece of degreased metal
    Test Control - The suspect round
    First, pull all bullets, dump powder and discard. We want THREE primed empty cartridge cases here folks. Be safe.

    Clean and degrease FOUR pieces of steel. I use old unusable M-16 Stripper clip housings (the steel piece, not the brass insert). I prep them by briefly touching the steel to a grind wheel to expose raw steel (this gets rid of the Parkerizing). Label each piece with a 1,2,3, & 4 with a marking (sharpie/permanent) pen.

    Label each empty cartridge case with a 1, 2, or 3. Fire each cartridge case onto its corresponding numbered piece of steel. The fourth piece is placed with the others as a ambient temperature/humidity control. Place all four pieces in a shallow Tupperware container on top of your fridge near the back (this is an ideal warm humid place) UNCOVERED for 4-5 days.

    Optional: If you are in a very dry climate, place a shot glass of water in the Tupperware to provide a small region of humidity. Unnecessary anywhere except desert regions or very cold dry climates.

    After 4-5 days inspect the pieces of steel. Compare the suspect steel to the CONTROL piece (the one piece you didn't fire a cartridge on). Is it rusted more or less? Does it have strange colors? If yes, compare it to the POSITIVE control. Equal? It's corrosive. Does it look like the NEGATIVE control? Then it is likely that it is non-corrosive. But, still check after you fire the ammo for fast growing crud. The difference will be obvious, as a corrosively primed round will grow rust and strange stuff almost overnight. Sometimes, the Negative control piece will exhibit almost zero rust, due to the sealing effect the priming compound has on the steel. This is especially true if you use a .22 pistol to fire the empty cartridge, like I do.

    This is not a perfect test, but it is one you can use at home with great accuracy. I have used it for over 10 years, for hundreds of suspect rounds, and I was wrong ONCE (verified by lab test). So, my success rate is still over 99.9% with this test.


    Dealing with Corrosive Ammo
    Courtesy of Rapidrob
    I've been shooting corrosive ammo for the last 50 years. No big deal, it will not destroy your rifle or other firearms if you clean it properly.
    To save money, and make your own cleaner you can use the following:
    mix a 1/3rd part to part,
    Clear Ammonia ( do not use sudsy type )
    White Vinegar
    Distilled water
    When mixed and stored in a plastic bottle the mixture will last for about six months. Soak a patch with this solution,run it down the bore, and let set into the bore no longer than 20 minutes. ( 5 minutes is long enough )
    Follow with a Nylon bore brush. Do not use bronze.
    Follow with several clean patches. ( the patches will be green from the copper )
    Oil as needed.
    The solution will remove all of the salts,powder fouling,copper fouling and lead.
    I use this solution on all of my firearms. From El-cheapo to my most expensive machine guns. It works,it's cheap and it removes all of the primers salts instantly.
    I have never had a rusty bore from shooting corrosive primed ammo using this cleaner,ever.

    From SurplusRifle.com:
    Most surplus ammo on the market today is corrosive.  Usually the primer is the culprit, when fired it coats the inside of the firearm with corrosive salt residue. When the salts combine with moisture, damage starts to occur to the metal surfaces. Oils or petroleum based products will not break down the corrosive salts and therefore are ineffective in cleaning or neutralizing the salt compounds.
    I have read that modern bore solvents will break down the salts and I have spoken with chemist friends that tell me that this is not true. Alkaline based solvents will break down the salts, as well as simple soap and water or just plain water. Ammonia will not break down the corrosive salts and can cause damage to the bore if left in too long. Ammonia will remove metal deposits such as copper from the bore.

    I for the longest time mixed an ammonia and water based concoction that I used to clean the bolt, bore, and any other effected areas. I then spoke to a friend of mine that said to just use simple ammonia based window cleaner.
    Visit www.MD-AR15.com

    "All Arfcommers should wear thier multicam smoking jackets or jammies around the house in anticipation of JBT tasering/dog shooting/civil rights violation or the occasional impromptu gangbanger street theater." - m24sh
    12/9/2008 2:49:59 PM EDT
    [#1]
    tacked
    When there's lead in the air... there's hope in the heart.
    <font size=3>
    www.458SOCOMforums.com

    www.68Forums.com
    </font id=s3>
    Quis custodiet ipsos custode

    Oh, how the ghost of you clings...
    12/9/2008 2:55:16 PM EDT
    [Last Edit: Postal0311][Edited] [#2]
    The S&W upper or complete rifle comes with a stronger hammer spring and disconector to help set off hard milsurp primers.

    While you can use a standard lower fire control group, I had multiple failures to fire that way.  The heavier spring gave me 100% ignition.

    As well, the Geissele Hi-Speed trigger works 100%.

    Standard Buffer works fine.
    I run mine on my SBR lower which uses a 9mm buffer and that runs fine.
    I have read on M4Carbine that some people think the S&W upper is way overgassed.

    Barrel threading is standard for 5.56.  You can use 5.56 suppressors if your barrel stabilizes the ammo you are using and you are willing to put corrosive residue in your can.
    Originally Posted By Mopseydocks6014:
    "I just had never heard that comps will make the weapon louder."
    12/9/2008 2:56:29 PM EDT
    [#3]
    Originally Posted By Cold:
    tacked


    Geez man you're fast....

    Visit www.MD-AR15.com

    "All Arfcommers should wear thier multicam smoking jackets or jammies around the house in anticipation of JBT tasering/dog shooting/civil rights violation or the occasional impromptu gangbanger street theater." - m24sh
    12/9/2008 7:11:44 PM EDT
    [#4]
    Should see me shoot ;)
    When there's lead in the air... there's hope in the heart.
    <font size=3>
    www.458SOCOMforums.com

    www.68Forums.com
    </font id=s3>
    Quis custodiet ipsos custode

    Oh, how the ghost of you clings...
    12/10/2008 6:19:08 AM EDT
    [#5]
    Guns & Ammo review of the S&W 5.45x39 complete rifle.

    http://www.gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Story_C/S%2526Ws+Eastern+Bloc+AR

    Here's the most important paragraph of the article as far as I'm concerned.

    Bore specifications for the M&P15R are unique. The rifling is four grooves with a 1:8-inch right-hand twist. The bore diameter is .217 (plus or minus .001), and the groove diameter is .222 (plus or minus .001). This is smaller than the standard bore dimension for .224-caliber .223/5.56 ammo and is necessitated by the fact that the actual bullet diameters of the military-surplus 5.45x39 ammunition currently imported into the U.S. are actually .2215/.2220 instead of the .2236 diameter called for by European C.I.P. specifications.


    I'll slug the bore on one of these uppers shortly and post the bore and groove dimensions, if indeed it is smaller - the information on resizing jacketed bullets might want to be edited with that information.



    Barrel Manufacturers:

    Pac-Nor has a bore reamer and rifling button for the 5.45x39 with a .222 groove diameter, 7 or 10 twist.

    5.45 Russian (.222") 7.7 or 10 Twist 4 Groove


    McGowen is looking in to offering these as well.


    Originally Posted By Postal0311:
    The S&W upper or complete rifle comes with a stronger hammer spring and disconector to help set off hard milsurp primers.


    There is no disconnector spring shipped with complete uppers from S&W, only a heavier hammer spring which is painted orange.


    12/11/2008 6:59:07 PM EDT
    [#6]
    I got my spare, stripped 5.45 bolts from Alexander Arms earlier this year.  Do not know if they have any left.  Do not know what I will do about the extractor as I do not know if the 5.45 extractor in my S&W upper differs from a 5.56 extractor.
    12/12/2008 8:29:33 AM EDT
    [Last Edit: MOS2111][Edited] [#7]
    Kurt will open 5.56 bolts to 5.45 and work the extractor.  You can also use 6.8 bolts.

    Mags
    Cproducts before and after over 200 insertions and removals - need to update






    The Cproducts mags are worth the coin. I am going to be sending mag 3 back to them after a while. I can make it fail every time at the range. It has become a valuable training tool for me to use when practicing transitions. I have only had one instance where I was able to make each magazine misfeed. This was probably more due how the rounds were loaded (I was tired and not being nice to them)
    HK mags with a 6.8 worked best for me, but at this stage, there is no reason to not be running Cproducts 5.45 mags. If you are going to take this to a class, use full 30 rounders, not standard mags that hold 17-20whatever.
    I have been messing with mags, Cproducts are new mags with the deep line indention moved back to properly feed/space for the 5.45 round.I have used HK, HK w/6.8 followers and USGI with 6.8 followers. I can get btwn 17-26 rounds depending on the mag body. I have not found any "standard" mag body that holds a set amount. It seems to be a combination of body, follower and spring (surprise, right)Most of the mags had no problems feeding and I only ran into problems on the last several rounds - After I forced as many rounds as possible in the mag, and let them sit for 2 days until I could shoot. The only mag problems I ran into were failure to chamber, where the projectile and front of the case were "pinched" by the bolt.
    Being a contributing member means you contribute – to a TECH FORUM...
    "If another mod is needed the current mod will let us know." TBK1
    12/13/2008 1:36:14 AM EDT
    [#8]
    10" Pac-nor Barrel by Marty, young chromed m16 carrier, bolt modded for the case and 223 extrator with wolff extra power extractor spring


    I had to get a wolff extra power hammer spring.

    I also had to file the end of the bolt for more FP protrusion and even had to taper the end of the FP to get it to protrude even further. I also flattened the tip a little to help with the hard primers.

    I also run the endine to get the bolt bounce down to run on F/A. For some reason the 10.5" upper I have has terrible bolt bounce

    The first 223 extractor I used would catch the cases and not eject them. Tried to file the claw a little to keep it from catching-didn't work. Tried a different extractor and it worked fine-go figure. Both were colt extractors.

    C-products mags have all fed perfectly.

    Accuracy test-maybe this weekend


    Originally Posted By R0N:

    I often wonder about people, who say all it produces is an “Ice pick like wound.” Just try shoving an ice pick into your chest or leg and seeing exactly how ambulatory you are after that?
    12/13/2008 2:05:42 AM EDT
    [#9]
    Glad to hear that the C Products mags are working fine.

    I have a dozen of them waiting on barrels from Kurt's Kustom.
    12/13/2008 11:22:33 AM EDT
    [#10]
    The gen 2s work fine.  I have 4 gen 1s (grayish finish) that have minor fit and feed problems.  I recieved 10 of the new gen 2 mags (distinctly black) and have found no real fit or feed problems.  I will be hitting the range hard over xmas break to check the feed of these mags.  On gen1 I only have an issue with 1 mag for feeding and 1 mag for fit.  I account any other issues to ammo or me.
    Being a contributing member means you contribute – to a TECH FORUM...
    "If another mod is needed the current mod will let us know." TBK1
    12/13/2008 12:31:41 PM EDT
    [#11]
    Originally Posted By MOS2111:

    The Cproducts mags are worth the coin. I am going to be sending mag 3 back to them after a while. I can make it fail every time at the range. It has become a valuable training tool for me to use when practicing transitions. I have only had one instance where I was able to make each magazine misfeed. This was probably more due how the rounds were loaded (I was tired and not being nice to them)
    HK mags with a 6.8 worked best for me, but at this stage, there is no reason to not be running Cproducts 5.45 mags. If you are going to take this to a class, use full 30 rounders, not standard mags that hold 17-20whatever.
    I have been messing with mags, Cproducts are new mags with the deep line indention moved back to properly feed/space for the 5.45 round.I have used HK, HK w/6.8 followers and USGI with 6.8 followers. I can get btwn 17-26 rounds depending on the mag body. I have not found any "standard" mag body that holds a set amount. It seems to be a combination of body, follower and spring (surprise, right)Most of the mags had no problems feeding and I only ran into problems on the last several rounds - After I forced as many rounds as possible in the mag, and let them sit for 2 days until I could shoot. The only mag problems I ran into were failure to chamber, where the projectile and front of the case were "pinched" by the bolt.


    Let me see if I understand you.  You take regular 223 magazine body and install 6.8 followers, and you have no problems with them?  

    Pleaes clarify because I live in CA and we can't get C-Products 5.45 magazines.
    12/13/2008 5:38:51 PM EDT
    [#12]
    Originally Posted By dd03:
    Originally Posted By MOS2111:

    The Cproducts mags are worth the coin. I am going to be sending mag 3 back to them after a while. I can make it fail every time at the range. It has become a valuable training tool for me to use when practicing transitions. I have only had one instance where I was able to make each magazine misfeed. This was probably more due how the rounds were loaded (I was tired and not being nice to them)
    HK mags with a 6.8 worked best for me, but at this stage, there is no reason to not be running Cproducts 5.45 mags. If you are going to take this to a class, use full 30 rounders, not standard mags that hold 17-20whatever.
    I have been messing with mags, Cproducts are new mags with the deep line indention moved back to properly feed/space for the 5.45 round.I have used HK, HK w/6.8 followers and USGI with 6.8 followers. I can get btwn 17-26 rounds depending on the mag body. I have not found any "standard" mag body that holds a set amount. It seems to be a combination of body, follower and spring (surprise, right)Most of the mags had no problems feeding and I only ran into problems on the last several rounds - After I forced as many rounds as possible in the mag, and let them sit for 2 days until I could shoot. The only mag problems I ran into were failure to chamber, where the projectile and front of the case were "pinched" by the bolt.


    Let me see if I understand you.  You take regular 223 magazine body and install 6.8 followers, and you have no problems with them?  

    Pleaes clarify because I live in CA and we can't get C-Products 5.45 magazines.



    Yes, please clarify. I live in a free state but I have boocoo 6.8 mags. Can I use them instead of ordering more C Prod 5.45 mags?
    "Without a sign, his sword the brave man draws, and asks no omen, but his country's cause."......Homer

    "Every man is a damn fool for at least five minutes every day; wisdom consists in not exceeding the limit.".....Elbert Hubbard
    12/14/2008 9:12:02 PM EDT
    [#13]
    Can you use a 6.5 Grendle Magazine?

    Not that I can tell.  Once you start loading the mag, the rounds start getting loose inside.  This was with a 17 rd C Products Grendel mag.
    12/16/2008 8:56:38 AM EDT
    [#14]
    How much does Kurt charge to do a barrel conversion?
    12/16/2008 5:26:34 PM EDT
    [#15]
    Originally Posted By dasu:
    How much does Kurt charge to do a barrel conversion?


    K-Var barrel is now up to $112.  Kurt charges $200.  He plugs the existing gas port and will set up a carbine or mid-length gas system.  He adds a front sight base, barrel extension, and threads and installs a flash hider.  Opening up a 5.56 bolt is $20, if I remember correctly.  I went the 6.8 route.

    I sent him two barrels four months ago and my card was charged immediately.

    Still waiting for them.

    Hope to have them soon.

    12/28/2008 8:29:30 AM EDT
    [Last Edit: FrankSL][Edited] [#16]
    EDIT: got my question answered in another thread.
    12/29/2008 1:45:09 PM EDT
    [#17]
    Originally Posted By FrankSL:
    EDIT: got my question answered in another thread.


    Could you let us in on it?  Thanks.

    Visit www.MD-AR15.com

    "All Arfcommers should wear thier multicam smoking jackets or jammies around the house in anticipation of JBT tasering/dog shooting/civil rights violation or the occasional impromptu gangbanger street theater." - m24sh
    12/29/2008 6:00:38 PM EDT
    [#18]
    Another upper manufacturer:

    http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=624232


    ER Shaw is apparently making the barrels, tried to order some blanks from them today to no avail.

    12/30/2008 8:10:01 PM EDT
    [#19]
    Today's testing - 5.45x39 S&W 16" upper.

    Bulgarian surplus from AIM and Sportsman's Warehouse.

    Same packaging, different looking coating on the case.  Total case weight was the same.

    2985-2996 FPS at 10' from muzzle.  Very consistent.

    50 yard accuracy - four different 20 round groups, none exceeded 1.5".

    Two failures to fire out of 110 rounds downrange, both had full deep primer strikes - but didn't go bang.

    Not a single feeding failure using two different C-Products magazines.


    I tried 6.5 Grendel, 7.62x39 and MagPul magazines, it didn't like any of them.  See no reason to try anything else the way these C-Products are running, hopefully the rest of them run as well.
    12/30/2008 11:20:13 PM EDT
    [#20]
    Originally Posted By bfarrin1:


    Two failures to fire out of 110 rounds downrange, both had full deep primer strikes - but didn't go bang.



    Were you using the "extra" power hammer spring?

    Regards,

    Hootbro
    Defender Of The Faith
    12/31/2008 7:13:58 AM EDT
    [#21]
    Yep
    1/2/2009 3:32:17 PM EDT
    [#22]
    any brand hammer spring you recommend?  I was thinking Wolff. Also where can I find heavy springs online?
    1/2/2009 4:19:53 PM EDT
    [#23]
    Originally Posted By jbuck387:
    any brand hammer spring you recommend?  I was thinking Wolff. Also where can I find heavy springs online?


    http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=19916

    Defender Of The Faith
    1/4/2009 12:34:17 PM EDT
    [#24]
    what about a bore snake for the 5.45x39?  Can you just use a .223 bore snake?
    1/4/2009 12:44:48 PM EDT
    [#25]
    Yes
    Originally Posted By Mopseydocks6014:
    "I just had never heard that comps will make the weapon louder."
    1/4/2009 5:08:06 PM EDT
    [Last Edit: esource][Edited] [#26]
    Tested new build S & W 5.45x 39 Upper w/ AFM lower and S & W Orange hammer spring yesterday. Fired 240 rounds of Russian 7N6 purchased from R Guns.
    Used 8 new CProducts 30 round 5.45 Mags purchased from 44Mag.com.
    All 240 rounds cycled flawlessly thanks to C Products Mags and heavy hammer spring.
    I'm glad this stuff works because I have 4K rounds in stock with another 10K on the way. Also just ordered 5,760 rounds of Bulgarian thru Sportsman's Guide.
    Hope I don't have any misfires with the Bulgarian as reported above. Yesterday aleviated my concerns about my investment in so much ammo.
    I'm new to AR15.com and got a kick reading the Ammo Whore thread. Didn't know there was a name for my affliction. Someone called me a compulsive horder, but the ammo hord makes it all worth while.
    Will report on the Bulgarian when it arrives in Feb. I will also try differant mags just for curiosity. Have heard that Std. .223 and 6.8 will work and I have both by CProducts.
    Thanks to everyone reporting on this new set-up.

    1/5/2009 11:02:54 AM EDT
    [#27]
    Originally Posted By esource:
    ..I'm glad this stuff works because I have 4K rounds in stock with another 10K on the way. Also just ordered 5,760 rounds of Bulgarian thru Sportsman's Guide.
    ...
    I'm new to AR15.com and got a kick reading the Ammo Whore thread.

    You're new, but I see you fit right in!  Welcome!


    Have heard that Std. .223 and 6.8 will work and I have both by CProducts.

    From what I've heard 'standard' magazines with the older black follerw work at a reduced capacity.  Green follower equipped magazines don't work so well.

    I've not heard anything about 6.8 magazine, it would make for a good test.

    Visit www.MD-AR15.com

    "All Arfcommers should wear thier multicam smoking jackets or jammies around the house in anticipation of JBT tasering/dog shooting/civil rights violation or the occasional impromptu gangbanger street theater." - m24sh
    1/5/2009 11:08:53 AM EDT
    [#28]
    I'm planing to test the 5.45 mags with .223 sometimes soon.  Just from loading a few, I think it will work at a reduced capacity but I won't be sure till I test it out.
    Originally Posted By Mopseydocks6014:
    "I just had never heard that comps will make the weapon louder."
    1/6/2009 10:02:42 AM EDT
    [#29]
    I have 2 MP15R's and have used a standard ar mag with GREEN follower. It will only hold 29 but so far it has funtioned as well as the C products 5.45 mags. NO PROBLEMS
    I love these 5.45 as I/we have 3 223/5.56 and they are as accurate and alot cheaper to shoot
    1/7/2009 10:53:29 AM EDT
    [Last Edit: PalmettoStateArmory][Edited] [#30]
    In testing our uppers, we could only get the USGI .223 mags to function correctly if they were loaded to about 12 rounds or less. If we loaded more than 12 rounds, the rounds tended to exert pressure and bulge the mag walls which would cause feeding problems. The mag was an NHMTG with a green follower. We have had good experience with the C Products 5.45 mags and find them to function flawlessly.

    Jamin
    1/7/2009 11:57:15 AM EDT
    [Last Edit: TaylorWSO][Edited] [#31]
    Originally Posted By 67survivor:
    I have 2 MP15R's and have used a standard ar mag with GREEN follower. It will only hold 29 but so far it has funtioned as well as the C products 5.45 mags. NO PROBLEMS
    I love these 5.45 as I/we have 3 223/5.56 and they are as accurate and alot cheaper to shoot


    really??? You are the first one. I would like to see the video.
    Originally Posted By R0N:

    I often wonder about people, who say all it produces is an “Ice pick like wound.” Just try shoving an ice pick into your chest or leg and seeing exactly how ambulatory you are after that?
    1/7/2009 9:30:42 PM EDT
    [#32]
    Can I use a compensator intended for a 5.56/.223 upper with the S&W without any problem?
    1/8/2009 8:45:18 PM EDT
    [#33]
    do they make any 5.45 snap caps?
    1/11/2009 4:10:03 PM EDT
    [#34]
    Bump
    Daddy loves you. Now go away.
    1/15/2009 10:45:48 PM EDT
    [Last Edit: jbuck387][Edited] [#35]
    any word on the 5.45x39 snap caps?
    1/19/2009 2:09:11 PM EDT
    [#36]
    Saw some plastic bullets with a white bullet on top. wonder if those are snap caps
    1/19/2009 3:14:33 PM EDT
    [#37]
    Originally Posted By Fleaglefixer:
    Saw some plastic bullets with a white bullet on top. wonder if those are snap caps


    where?
    1/19/2009 7:25:08 PM EDT
    [#38]
    Gun broker has one for sale. Hope this helps. Item number

     121077500  5.45x39 Blank (CCCP) Plastic bullet (b302n27-477)
    1/20/2009 5:29:42 PM EDT
    [Last Edit: TiredIron][Edited] [#39]
        The Standard CAR Buffer "Does Not Work" on F.A. weapons.  I tested a S&W upper on a RDIAS Lower and due to Bolt Bounce would fire one round and fail....fire one round and fail....fire one round and fail.  As soon as I switched to a H2 Buffer I got 98-99% reliabilty.  I then switched to the H3 Buffer and it ran 100% with a slightly lower cyclic rate which is nice. Then switched to the Standard Black 9MM Buffer (heavier still) and again....100% reliablity...with again a still slower cyclic rate.  I like the overall feel and cyclic rate using the heavy 9MM buffer best.
      I performed this same test with a Converted SP1 using the Colt Sear configuration and experienced the exact same results.  I expended 1080rds during the test using C-Products 30rd magazines.  Spending $118.80 this day instead of $378.00 left me walking away with a oldschool smile......instead of Obama Heartburn.

    adios
    TiredIron
    1/20/2009 9:08:43 PM EDT
    [#40]
    Over on M4 Carbine there is a discussion where several people are claiming that the S&W uppers are horribly over gassed.

    I don't know if that true or not, but I've run mine almost the whole time on a 9mm buffer.  I had ADCO chop it and it still runs great on a 9mm buffer.
    Originally Posted By Mopseydocks6014:
    "I just had never heard that comps will make the weapon louder."
    1/24/2009 2:52:04 PM EDT
    [Last Edit: dasu][Edited] [#41]
    Im new to corrosive ammo but I got a bunch of bulgarian and an S&W.  i thought i had the thing cleaned with soapy water but then saw corrosion around the gas tube in the receiver.  i cleaned that with more soapy water but a week later noticed stuff in the bore.  ran a patch and it came out black.  is that corrosion or powder residue from the gas tube from washing it out?

    i read the overgassed post.  im running a h2 on it ejection is at 3:30 with blugarian surplus, so thats about right.  what ammo were they using?

    i know amphibian tried a piston system but that was an ares.  anyone try a CMMG?
    1/24/2009 4:02:04 PM EDT
    [#42]
    dasu  where did you get your h2 buffer for it. I want to put one in mine. Do you need any more mags.
    1/24/2009 4:10:07 PM EDT
    [#43]
    who doesnt need more mags?

    i bought the buffer from pk firearms.
    1/24/2009 5:10:28 PM EDT
    [#44]
    Originally Posted By dasu:
    Im new to corrosive ammo but I got a bunch of bulgarian and an S&W.  i thought i had the thing cleaned with soapy water but then saw corrosion around the gas tube in the receiver.  i cleaned that with more soapy water but a week later noticed stuff in the bore.  ran a patch and it came out black.  is that corrosion or powder residue from the gas tube from washing it out?


    I hesitate to ask, but since you didn't mention it: did you clean and lube normally after you washed it out with soapy water?
    1/24/2009 6:09:07 PM EDT
    [#45]
    Received 2 tins (2,160) of Bulgarian 5.45 x 39 this week from Sportsman's.
    Fired 100 rds. thru S&W Upper w/heavy hammer spring using CProducts 5.45 Mags.
    No missfires or jammed rounds..=100% success. This set-up works flawlessly so far.
    I was very nervious about buying non-Std. caliber while waiting for my delivery of ammo from R-Guns. If this sucker didn't work I would have been out about $2K.
    Lower is AFM with Std. carbine buffer and Model 1 parts kit and S&W heavy hammer spring. No problems with cycling using Std. carbine buttstock/buffer from DPMS.
    I know others are reporting problems.
    Grouped around 2" at 50 yds....need to install a target trigger.
    Used a standard parts kit with heavy and rough trigger pull.
    I will now try to source additional Russian or Bulgarian 5.45 x 39.
    Have about 20K including stuff on backorder but if anyone knows of any
    good deals, please let me know. My average cost is about 13 cents with shipping.
    1/25/2009 12:32:37 AM EDT
    [#46]
    Originally Posted By esource:....need to install a target trigger.................


    The extra power spring will probably screw up most "target" triggers systems. I found this out when I tried it with a RRA 2 stage setup. Would not let  off the first stage.

    Defender Of The Faith
    1/25/2009 12:49:32 AM EDT
    [Last Edit: Postal0311][Edited] [#47]
    The heavy trigger will break in, and smooth out.  It will be heavy, but smooth.

    As I said earlier, the High-Speed Geissele Trigger works 100% with milsurp.

    I am planning on getting a SSA, I will report how that works when I get one.
    Originally Posted By Mopseydocks6014:
    "I just had never heard that comps will make the weapon louder."
    1/25/2009 7:45:03 AM EDT
    [Last Edit: dasu][Edited] [#48]
    I tried the SSA.  i had one misfire out of about 40 rounds without the extra power spring, but that may be the ammo too.  i need to test it out more.

    the DMR trigger worked well with the stock spring.

    as for cleaning, good point, yes i ran some CLP on it afterwards.
    1/25/2009 11:36:53 AM EDT
    [#49]
    Originally Posted By Postal0311:
    The heavy trigger will break in, and smooth out.  It will be heavy, but smooth.

    As I said earlier, the High-Speed Geissele Trigger works 100% with milsurp.

    I am planning on getting a SSA, I will report how that works when I get one.


    Postal, Where can I buy the SSA? Just did web search and everyone seems to be backordered. Meanwhile, I will continue to work with smoothing current trigger.
    This thing is killing my accuracy and trigger finger! Thanks
    1/31/2009 7:36:25 PM EDT
    [#50]
    I have no more bolt over base issues since I replaced the springs in my C Products mags.  Thanks to Sara for helping sort this out.

    Lancer mags DO NOT work.  They swell.

    I shot it with an AAC M4-2000 suppressor, and even with a PRI gas buster, the gas blowback is unreal.

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